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Author Topic: Simple,cheap,working,legal device to reduce electric bill(power factor optim.)  (Read 52302 times)

Offline Creativity

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Hello,
in this part of the forum i would like to reserve some space for the project of designing,constructing and testing of a device used to optimise a power factor at ur home electrical grid.By doing so we would be able to pay for the electricity that we really use.
This kind of technology is in everyday use in industry and is well tested and known.I refer here to the topic:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6443.20

Please help to this project.After passing of tests,support it by building and installing of one at ur home.If it works for u ,then spread the idea between ur friends and family.In this way we can make a big impact on global scale and launch first cooperative project of OU forum,that will really work and benefit our society immediately and surely.

greetz,
Creativity

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Offline saintsnick

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They sell Power Factor Correction devices on e-bay, for only a few dollars, that plug right into an electrical outlet.

Be sure to get one that corrects power factor on BOTH phases, in America 240 volt.  You will need a 240 volt outlet.

Be sure to get the correct number of units to match the wattage used by all your house loads.

Offline fuzzytomcat

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If you live in the United States a quick way to save money on a electricity bill is to "Balance" the amperage or electrical loads so the amperage draw is equal on each leg of electricity that passes through your watt hour electrical meter used by your utility provider.

The way the watt hour meter operates is the amperage or load is divided into two power legs or phases 120 volt line to ground circuits, each of the two being metered on a home 3-wire system (utility transformer or power lines to utility watt hour meter base). If one leg or phase of the 120 volt line to ground is at 40 amps and the other 120 volt line to ground is at 80 amps your pay for the 80 amps the higher of the two. If both 120 volt line to ground legs or phases are balanced at 60 amps per leg or phase ..... right you pay for the 60 amps ..... not the 80 amp high leg or phase on a unbalance 3-wire system.

Alway any modifications to your electrical service system should be done by qualified person or electrician.

There are many homes that used a type of wire called 12/3 NM or 14/3 NM or Romex wire with or without a ground wire (red, black, white) and may be used inside of a electrical circuit breaker panel for two 120 volt circuits this is allowed by the NEC code, and the red and black wires "MUST" be on separate phases or legs to share the neutral or white wire.

Fuzzy :)
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 03:37:03 AM by fuzzytomcat »

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Offline vonwolf

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If you live in the United States a quick way to save money on a electricity bill is to "Balance" the amperage or electrical loads so the amperage draw is equal on each leg of electricity that passes through your watt hour electrical meter used by your utility provider.


There are many homes that used a type of wire called 12/3 NM or 14/3 NM or Romex wire with or without a ground wire (red, black, white) and may be used inside of a electrical circuit breaker panel for two 120 volt circuits this is allowed by the NEC code, and the red and black wires "MUST" be on separate phases or legs to share the neutral or white wire.

Fuzzy :)

  hi fuzzytomcat;
   This sounds very interesting, I've never herd that before and I've built dozen's of single and Milty family homes. I might give that a try as my home is a money pit where power is concerned.
     The last part is a little off though. New homes usually are wired with 12/2 or 14/2 for normal 120v outlets and switches. The 12/3's are used on 3 way switches or switched outlets etc.
    Pete

Offline fuzzytomcat

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  hi fuzzytomcat;
   This sounds very interesting, I've never herd that before and I've built dozen's of single and Milty family homes. I might give that a try as my home is a money pit where power is concerned.
     The last part is a little off though. New homes usually are wired with 12/2 or 14/2 for normal 120v outlets and switches. The 12/3's are used on 3 way switches or switched outlets etc.
    Pete

Hey vonwolf, It's not to hard to balance the loads if you have a clamp-on amp meter that you can put on the main feeder wires in the circuit breaker panel, turn on things you use all the time lights, devices that are on a lot AV equipment ..... stuff like that, measuring the amps on both lines or phases.

Then swap or move wires and or circuit breakers around if you can to different lines or phase locations in your circuit breaker panel to balance the load equal. It takes some time to do it fairly close, but there is quite the savings. The circuits that are 240 volt or two lines or phases circuit breakers with a tie bar or device to connect the two lines or phase together are balanced loads, similar to all European home voltages are 240 volt 3-wire from the utility.

I have seen some 200 amp home services up to easily 40 amps difference all the time on 120 volt circuits, like 60 amps line one, 20 amps line two (not using the 240 volt circuits or turning off until balancing completed) like at night with everything that could be turned on normally.

The older "Zinsco" or "GTE Sylvania" panels are the worse, they have a relocatable lug thats screwed on the back of the circuit breaker, stock the 120 volt breakers come with the lug on one line or phase side "ONLY" most electricians in the 60-70s were lazy and never swapped some of them to the other line or phase ...... so they all ended up on one line or phase  :P but easy to change if it was done wrong.

"Disclaimer" If you are a home owner and in the United States the NEC electrical code apply's in most all states and will let you do your own electrical work in your home (permits may be needed). If unsure what your doing it is always best to seek professional help or a electrician to do the electrical work to all state and local codes. Most insurance company's during any fire investigation sees unapproved wiring or work that may not have been inspected by a state, county or city electrical inspector and is related to the fire can or will "Void" most home owners insurance policy's.  :o  "Disclaimer"

Fuzzy  :)

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Offline fritznien

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@all
first its a watt hour meter it reads watts not volt amps.,residential users are not billed for phase angle.
second the meter has a coil for each leg so an imbalance in current dose not make an improper bill.
what were you going to do sit there and juggle ccts everytime something turns off  or on?

Offline helmut

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@ all

If you want to save some Money, then first of all, reduce the need of electricity as much as you can.
This migt be done by using smaller Lams or LED bulbs.
Another way is, to use Timers to cut the time, that some Devices, like Chargers, are on the grid.

On another Place i had made some calkulation and like to reply it here .
Quote
Lets do some analysis to see the facts.

Lets assume, one have a small Heater for the bedroom.
Tle label shows. 220V, 55Ohm for the value of the resistor.
Fact is: the Resistor does in a normal environment NOT change his properties.

If the Heater is connectet to the Grid, he takes P=U*I  880Watt
I=U/R  220/55 = 4  Amps    The Power of 880W/h will be charged on your bill.

Now the situation changes without you know.(perhaps)

The Energy supplier encreases the Voltage in his Grid to about 250Volt.
Your Heater in the Bedroom and other Resistors on the Net behave as usual.
But this causes different effects.
Now I=U/R   is   250/55= 4,563 Amps  And the Heater reacts with more Power.
P=U*I = 250 * 4,563 = 1140,75 Watt
What does it mean?
The charge on your Bill encreases by more or less 22%

Without you notest.

"Start of the  joke"
So in this case it might be of use to have a small resistor in spare 16Ohm might be fine,
but this must be able to carry the load of 1140Watt.
"End of joke"
Result:
Actions on both sides of the Meter effects the other side.

The biggest save effect is based on the Voltage.
The correction on the Power faktor workes  for inductive loads only.
Inductive loads are from coils. Transformers, Motors and so on.

The cos/phi power factor on a meter is Zero, when there is no load connected.
As soon as one connect a inductive load ,on the plug in your home, one
pay for the reactive power too.
The usual meter das not include a circuit,that corrects the power factor.

During the night, if some electricity supplier, increase the voltage on the grid,it directly
encreases the amps, that all resistors take from the net.
This includes all non inductive resistors too. ( Heaters)
You have to pay for it without beein asked.

Give it a proove yourselve by just see the formula to calculate the electrical Power
and as well as to calculate the powerfactor.
The Voltage is a Key on all calculation.

I have ordered some of the power factor corrector devices.
As soon as they arrive, i will build a setup to test and proove about the actual
advantage that one can expect.

helmut


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Offline fuzzytomcat

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@all
first its a watt hour meter it reads watts not volt amps.,residential users are not billed for phase angle.
second the meter has a coil for each leg so an imbalance in current dose not make an improper bill.
what were you going to do sit there and juggle ccts everytime something turns off  or on?

fritznien, 

I'm sorry if you may be confused, as a electrical engineer for 10 years 24 years ago, and a practicing Oregon State licensed electrical contractor for the past 24 years, with 34 years of electrical experience total, one would think I know something about this having delt with it 100's of times. 

Amps are Amps and have nothing to do with "PHASE ANGLE" in this post, or a residential service.

Do you know how to change the "Phase Angle" from the power supplied to a home service by the utility provider without effecting other services supplied from the same transformer? or can you ever do it with out permission from your utility provider?

Adding PF corrector equipment can effect every service connected to a "shared" utility service providers transformer and can cause fluctuations to all services connected to that transformer.

turbo

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Simple,cheap,working,legal device to reduce electric bill.

I have one that will definatly reduce your electric bill.  :)


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Offline fuzzytomcat

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Simple,cheap,working,legal device to reduce electric bill.

I have one that will definatly reduce your electric bill.  :)


Only the best out there !!  ;D

Fuzzy

Offline Trino Cularoid

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Keep in mind that different countries or even states/cities might have different measuring approaches. In any case, a local PFC saves energy, but not necessarily money. But that is already a good reason I would say. (The energy saved is the one that would be lost in the wiring between your home and the PFC at the power plant/distribution station. Just be sure you're not doing PFC for your whole neighborhood by accident.)

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Offline fritznien

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fritznien, 

I'm sorry if you may be confused, as a electrical engineer for 10 years 24 years ago, and a practicing Oregon State licensed electrical contractor for the past 24 years, with 34 years of electrical experience total, one would think I know something about this having delt with it 100's of times. 

Amps are Amps and have nothing to do with "PHASE ANGLE" in this post, or a residential service.

Do you know how to change the "Phase Angle" from the power supplied to a home service by the utility provider without effecting other services supplied from the same transformer? or can you ever do it with out permission from your utility provider?

Adding PF corrector equipment can effect every service connected to a "shared" utility service providers transformer and can cause fluctuations to all services connected to that transformer.
you would think an iron ring would know. me i'm just an EET who spent years in school learning about electronics. what part did i get wrong? that PF only costs the utility money or that the meter is acurate? as for correcting power facter, every load you use in you house changes the PF for your service. as long as your equipment is approved why would anyone care?

Offline Trino Cularoid

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as long as your equipment is approved why would anyone care?

Some people care about the environment, some are just cheap. Some countries have much stricter PFC requirements than the US though, so it might not make that much a difference there.

Offline Creativity

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I was reading around at the subject(papers/articles from the industry) to view the power factor from the energy producer and consumer points of view.

to tell the truth i m perplexed about what exactly is measured at the home meter.Many of u r saying that the meter measures VA. Different sources state that in Europe it is the real power(so reactive is not taken into account) and just big energy users are to pay fines for the phase shift they introduce(if power factor goes below 0.95).Because of the extra reactive power used,the load(amps) on power substations/transformers increases.Electric company has to forsee bigger substations just to account for that fact..client pays higher rates to cover the reactive power transmission(more amps) and for the upgraded substations.BTW reactive power is not economical for energy company to produce and transmit.In fact we all pay for the costs of reactive power production and transmission,so reducing it could slow down the yearly rising energy transmission costs.In this way it would save us money in long term,with participation of many people.
Ok, we r progressive group of individuals in this forum and it is our duty to push the frontier on every energy aspect...that is just what we feel is right to do.So i would invest this few $/€.

Big energy users install banks of caps,cooled superconductive coils and so on to become their own reactive power producer.Doing so they avoid fines from the energy companies and save money in long term.

So i just need a way to verify just what kind of measurements the energy meter is performing.Anyone an idea how to verify it?
( i was thinking to try to make the meter to turn faster or slower by an RC load .If it has PF awarness ,it should not be possible to achive ,because it would just measure the real power).

I am also almost sure that different countries will have different energy meters principes.Like in Asia,they may still be using the techniques we used in Europe after WWII.In that case the energy saver would work in those regions quite well.

About USA i have no idea what standards u have there.From what u r saying it looks taht even the cable colours are different :)we have yellow/green,black or brown and blue :D
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:03:25 PM by Creativity »

Offline Creativity

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... If both 120 volt line to ground legs or phases are balanced at 60 amps per leg or phase ..... right you pay for the 60 amps ..... not the 80 amp high leg or phase on a unbalance 3-wire system.
...


that sounds very interesting :) as an electric company i would charge for 120Amps and not from one leg  ;D r u sure it is true?

Quote

I'm sorry if you may be confused, as a electrical engineer for 10 years 24 years ago, and a practicing Oregon State licensed electrical contractor for the past 24 years, with 34 years of electrical experience total, one would think I know something about this having delt with it 100's of times.

Amps are Amps and have nothing to do with "PHASE ANGLE" in this post, or a residential service.

Do you know how to change the "Phase Angle" from the power supplied to a home service by the utility provider without effecting other services supplied from the same transformer? or can you ever do it with out permission from your utility provider?

Adding PF corrector equipment can effect every service connected to a "shared" utility service providers transformer and can cause fluctuations to all services connected to that transformer.

IF industry is using PFC it means it is beneficial for both the energy producer and consumer to use it.If we won't overdo PFC it should just be beneficial for the substations.
There was some discussion in one of the papers about using of PCF before companys trafo and after it(big energy user with own substation).At that time i wasn't putting much of an attention to this subject so i don't remember exacly what were the pros and cons of both approaches.

About the permissions i have no idea,but every cooling agregate at my shop has cap's on it providing some PFC.If this is allowed that adding extra cap here and there should not be of a much problem.I may be wrong.
« Last Edit: January 17, 2009, 06:07:49 PM by Creativity »

 

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