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Gravity powered devices => Gravity powered devices => Topic started by: gurangax on December 30, 2008, 09:53:05 PM

Title: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on December 30, 2008, 09:53:05 PM
Greetings all

Just want to share you a simulation I made on May. Maybe will help some of you guys. This is just to show you the idea of it. I found it hard to simulate a chain so I put the torque at the center of wheel.

http://rapidshare.com/files/178255799/ethernity_wheel_test_2.avi.html

Many thanks.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: hartiberlin on December 30, 2008, 11:54:58 PM
Hi gurangax,
nice wheel,
but did you apply a torque onto the main wheel ?

Can you also show this without the torque on the main wheel ?

Could you please post the WM2D file ?
The fixing point joints of the blue bars on the main wheel
are an error source.
Better use 2 pin joints for this.


Could you please switch on (show) the Center of Gravity for the
3 weights ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: noonespecial on December 31, 2008, 12:22:03 AM
Your download limit has been reached. Could you post the .avi here?

Thanks,
Charlie
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: Bessler007 on December 31, 2008, 12:49:09 AM
found it hard to simulate a chain so I put the torque at the center of wheel.

connect small spheres with rods and set the them to collide with the larger body (blue).  Lots of work.  Use the rabbit function. Copy paste, copy 2, paste, copy 4, paste, etc.


Bessler007
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on December 31, 2008, 06:05:05 AM
Harti yes i put torque at main wheel. The reason is to show how it should work if we use chain instead of string in wm2d. I am not  good with wm2d, the placements of elements in the design is not accurate. I am positive that by using a chain like system will produce positive effects. I tried to make a chain system but the chain keeps jerking and the string becomes elongated, maybe bugs.

I post here the basic weights elements for the wheel along with the cg.

Hi gurangax,
nice wheel,
but did you apply a torque onto the main wheel ?

Can you also show this without the torque on the main wheel ?

Could you please post the WM2D file ?
The fixing point joints of the blue bars on the main wheel
are an error source.
Better use 2 pin joints for this.


Could you please switch on (show) the Center of Gravity for the
3 weights ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on December 31, 2008, 06:07:19 AM
Sorry I don't know how to post here file is 5mb

Your download limit has been reached. Could you post the .avi here?

Thanks,
Charlie
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: Bessler007 on December 31, 2008, 06:29:43 AM
There are a lot of people that know a lot about wm2d.  If you can post precisely what you want to do you'll get an answer. If you don't follow the answer then repost your concern; you'll get another answer.

As a servo seeks, you'll eventually understand how to use the tool and also understand it's limitations.  It's not incomprehensible.



Bessler007
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on December 31, 2008, 06:59:59 AM
This is what i wanted to do. Hope you can simulate it in wm2d. see attachement

There are a lot of people that know a lot about wm2d.  If you can post precisely what you want to do you'll get an answer. If you don't follow the answer then repost your concern; you'll get another answer.

As a servo seeks, you'll eventually understand how to use the tool and also understand it's limitations.  It's not incomprehensible.



Bessler007
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on December 31, 2008, 07:58:18 AM
This is another variance of the weight setup. See attachment
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: AB Hammer on January 02, 2009, 01:39:43 AM
This is another variance of the weight setup. See attachment

I didn't see any advantage in that simulation. Do you have another that may clarify what you are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: hartiberlin on January 02, 2009, 03:54:10 AM
Hi gurangax,
can you please post the WM2D file from
your video please too ?

I don´t still understand, what would be the advantage
of a chain versus a string attachment ?
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on January 02, 2009, 06:02:23 AM
This is what I am trying to achieve. see the video here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iEptOgGiGE

but, in the video it uses string. what I want is to use a chain like system as I've drawn in the previous sketch. Do you see the advantage of using chain now?

I didn't see any advantage in that simulation. Do you have another that may clarify what you are trying to achieve.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on January 02, 2009, 06:10:58 AM
The chain is used to modify the position of weights so that the weight on the right will be closer to the center of wheel, weight on left will be farther from center of wheel. I made the simulation long time ago on May 2008. The position of elements is not accurate. Also the wheel doesn't turn as in the video if I don't put torque, that is why I am telling now to use a chain like system instead of string in wm2d. I've tried it before but seems to be buggy. the chain jerks and the string attached to it becomes elongated.

Hi gurangax,
can you please post the WM2D file from
your video please too ?

I don´t still understand, what would be the advantage
of a chain versus a string attachment ?
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: AB Hammer on January 03, 2009, 03:46:20 AM
gurangax

 I looked at your youtube video and I have to say it would work better going the other way. But all and all it looks like a non runner to my eyes. You have no overbalance for the descending side weight is trying to lift 2 weights on the ascending side.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on January 03, 2009, 08:45:31 AM
I've uploaded another video from my wm2d. In this video it clearly shows the descending side is lifting the ascending side. Actually both weights at the bottom play role in lifting the weight at the top. here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=076iPK9L-tg

You must also note that this is a string configuration and not a chain like configuration as I wanted. A chain like configuration will modify the weight position so that the weight at the right is closer to the center of wheel, and the weight at the right is farther.

gurangax

 I looked at your youtube video and I have to say it would work better going the other way. But all and all it looks like a non runner to my eyes. You have no overbalance for the descending side weight is trying to lift 2 weights on the ascending side.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: AB Hammer on January 03, 2009, 02:04:46 PM
I've uploaded another video from my wm2d. In this video it clearly shows the descending side is lifting the ascending side. Actually both weights at the bottom play role in lifting the weight at the top. here is the link

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=076iPK9L-tg

You must also note that this is a string configuration and not a chain like configuration as I wanted. A chain like configuration will modify the weight position so that the weight at the right is closer to the center of wheel, and the weight at the right is farther.


gurangax

 You need to learn about the zones of a wheel. The keel zone is all below the 3 to 9 marks, now the kill zone will be determined on which direction. You vids are running counter clockwise so that will make your kill zone between 6:30 to 3:30 position. The kill zone is the dead lift, the push up hill and where the majority of your weight is collecting in the effect of your wheel, in what I have seen. This is what tells me that back to the drawing board is a good idea. The extra reaction is not enough to overcome what you are doing.

 I tell it like I see it. Now if you go and build this you will see first hand on what I am saying. Here is a video if you look close you will see a very bad keel problem.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJ1LIJUhHhA&feature=channel_page

Good luck
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: hartiberlin on January 05, 2009, 12:22:10 AM
The chain is used to modify the position of weights so that the weight on the right will be closer to the center of wheel, weight on left will be farther from center of wheel. I made the simulation long time ago on May 2008. The position of elements is not accurate. Also the wheel doesn't turn as in the video if I don't put torque, that is why I am telling now to use a chain like system instead of string in wm2d. I've tried it before but seems to be buggy. the chain jerks and the string attached to it becomes elongated.


If you still have the file,
I could try it with a chain, butI don´t have time to model it all
on my own, but I could try to change it using a chain,
cause I am just trying myself again a few interpretations of Bessler ideas..


Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: What you think of this simulation
Post by: gurangax on January 05, 2009, 04:46:53 AM
Hi Stefan

Here is a file, but it's not quite the same as in the simulation, the file was changed during the past months. But you can try replacing the string with chain. Maybe you will experience the same problem of jerking chain and elongated string of the chain.



If you still have the file,
I could try it with a chain, butI don´t have time to model it all
on my own, but I could try to change it using a chain,
cause I am just trying myself again a few interpretations of Bessler ideas..


Regards, Stefan.