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### Author Topic: Inertia Drive  (Read 38372 times)

#### currenthopper

• Newbie
• Posts: 27
##### Inertia Drive
« on: December 24, 2008, 07:38:08 PM »
Am I to understand that there is currently no working model of a inertia drive. What I mean is there is no model that when activated shows any kind of decrease in weight, when placed on a scale. And when suspended by a rope it shows no signs of pulling one way or the other from top dead center. And when placed in a large still body of water it propels itself along. I say large body of water because if placed in a bathtub the waves bouncing off the wall creates the movement. I'm I correct in the assumption that there is no such device?

Thank you for your time,
C

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2008, 08:24:37 PM »
What an interesting question.
You are really asking several questions, that may not be equivalent.

The first question: Is there a working model of an inertial drive?
As the question is commonly understood, the answer is no.

Let's take the other, not exactly equivalent questions.
"shows decrease in weight when placed upon a scale"
Yes, there are many of these, and they are easy to build. Depending on the scale, they show more or less reduction in weight. Some of them even hop up off the ground (during which time the scale would of course read zero, or even negative), or climb inclined planes.

"suspended from a rope"
This is the dreaded "pendulum test" and has been extensively analyzed. Some devices will couple rocking (caused by CG shift) with pendulum swinging, like a child pumping a swing, and may exhibit momentary sideways displacement of the center of mass. But this cannot be sustained. A proper time-averaged observation will show that the center of mass of the system cannot sustain a horizontal displacement.

"large body of water"
This is the "canoe" test, and yes, there are several devices that will make progress under these conditions. They work by exactly the same principle that ice skaters use to accelerate across the "frictionless" surface of the ice. That is, momentary thrust vectors occur that are NOT in the direction of least friction, and the skater (or the "inertial drive" in the canoe) is pushing against this sideways resistance to accelerate along the line of lesser resistance. Strictly in accord with Newton. The water is displaced in the opposite direction and momentum is conserved.

You are welcome.

(You forgot to ask about "torsion" drives a la Tolchin and Shipov, or centrifugal weight-swinging drives, or the latest Tong device from the LTLOT loonies, or ...
They don't work as advertised either.)

#### currenthopper

• Newbie
• Posts: 27
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2008, 12:53:02 AM »
Tinsel,
Thank you for your response. In your opinion what test or tests would prove beyond any doubt that a ID is working. Sustained levitation? Constant forward movement? or The pendulum test?

C

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2008, 02:14:56 AM »
Sustained levitation would (probably) convince even me.

I think it might be possible to fool a pendulum test in certain circumstances. So the length of the pendulum arm should be varied, without changing the parameters of the d.u.t. A true inertial drive won't care about the length of the pendulum.

Constant forward movement is trickier. Many of these devices move quite well, even on _apparently_ frictionless surfaces like air tracks or tables. However, for any particular device, there will be a way to test it that prevents it from reacting against a substrate, or at least allows accounting for the momentum exchanged with a substrate or some part of the environment.

#### FredWalter

• Full Member
• Posts: 124
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #4 on: December 26, 2008, 01:33:27 AM »
Get yourself a copy of US Patent Application 20080168862 "Inertial Propulsion Device" by Michael K. Walden.

I've exchanged email with him on a mailing list that I moderate, and he claims that his prototype passes the pendulum test.

You can read more about his device in the archives at

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Centrifugal_Inertial_Propulsion/messages

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #5 on: December 26, 2008, 02:12:33 AM »
Good for him. Is there a video that we can watch?

And do you know if he's tried it with different pendulum lengths, without changing the oscillation frequency of the drive?

(Sorry, I just can't crawl through that forum...I'll go blind, I know it.)

#### Yucca

• Hero Member
• Posts: 884
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #6 on: December 27, 2008, 11:24:07 PM »
HereÂ´s a system that apparently generates thrust using an asymetric microwave resonance cavity:

http://emdrive.com/

streaming vid of test rig rotating on air bearing:

http://emdrive.com/DMtest188.wmv

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #7 on: December 28, 2008, 01:29:10 AM »
Shawyer's "EM" drive will soon, I hope, be tested in the definitive environment--outer space.
Smarter people than I have looked at Shawyer's maths and they think there are rather large errors.
I personally don't believe all experimental artifacts have been excluded.
What would be the effect of a tiny pinhole in the container, or an ion wind from some wiring or component at relatively high potential?
I just don't know, but since his math is suspect and the device appears to violate CofM, I'd put money on it being an error of some kind.

#### X00013

• Hero Member
• Posts: 679
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #8 on: December 28, 2008, 03:28:59 AM »
Not sure this will help, but i remember watching a tube video about 2 years ago tagged "lost technology" with alot a bits,  showing some guy and his device in a very large pool in the late 70's, patent applied, government dismissed, but the video looked like it worked pretty damn good to me. I just spent an hour tryn to find the vid on the tube to no avail.

#### AlanA

• Full Member
• Posts: 117
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #9 on: December 28, 2008, 11:53:25 AM »
Hi,

just have read about the Inertial Propulsion Device from Mr. Walden.
I have downloaded the patent file. But there are so many patent files out there.
What did Mr. Walden said about his device? Has he made a prototype yet?

Regards
Alana

#### Yucca

• Hero Member
• Posts: 884
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #10 on: December 28, 2008, 08:48:59 PM »
Shawyer's "EM" drive will soon, I hope, be tested in the definitive environment--outer space.
Smarter people than I have looked at Shawyer's maths and they think there are rather large errors.
I personally don't believe all experimental artifacts have been excluded.
What would be the effect of a tiny pinhole in the container, or an ion wind from some wiring or component at relatively high potential?
I just don't know, but since his math is suspect and the device appears to violate CofM, I'd put money on it being an error of some kind.

IÂ´m not sure whether it works or not either.

If I could see the rotating test rig enclosed in an airtight, grounded rigid shield that rotates with the whole rig and it still rotated then I would say it works. It might be something he should consider doing to improve chances of investment.

Shawyer says that the reason it works is because two seperate inertial frames are set up within the system due to relativistic effects, the maths is way above my head.

#### FredWalter

• Full Member
• Posts: 124
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 05:20:19 PM »
What did Mr. Walden said about his device? Has he made a prototype yet?

He made a prototype, and it behaved as his computer software model predicted, and he says that it passed the pendulum test. However the bearings in his first prototype overheated and damaged the prototype, and I believe that he's waiting for funds to finish making the second prototype.

Now that his patent application has been published, I'm hoping someone else with access to a machine shop can duplicate his prototype (and his success with the pendulum test).

#### AlanA

• Full Member
• Posts: 117
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2008, 05:26:33 PM »
thanks for the answer FredWalter.

You said Mr. Walten passed the pendulum test. What is the pendulum test? I never heard about such a test (sorry).
For what is it good for? What means that he passed this test?
I'd like to replicate his invention. But there are not enough informations out there (overunity.com). I have the patent file but that's not enough.

Ragards
Andreas

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2008, 08:20:13 PM »
Andreas, you might like to look at
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/IPEmain.htm
and
http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/museum/test-pm.htm
(scroll down to the Inertial Propulsion section)

Just for starters.

#### AlanA

• Full Member
• Posts: 117
##### Re: Inertia Drive
« Reply #14 on: January 01, 2009, 10:50:11 AM »
Thanks TinselKoala for the links!
Does Naudins device works like Mr. Waldens invention?