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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 05:28:28 PM

Title: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 05:28:28 PM
@all

My goal here is to run a motor with a 1.5v or 9v battery and charge the battery while running the motor.

The question is:
If I have a circuit, like the camera circuit, that increase the source voltage from 1.5v to 12v, How I can feedback to the source battery without conflict between the two different voltages?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 06:58:29 PM
@all

The required circuit to run the motor is already done.
I will post it if there is quorum.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 21, 2008, 07:41:28 PM

That has long been a goal of mine also jesus.

As a matter of fact, while trying to do just that, I discovered an anomalous charging effect on the battery while the motor was not turning within the circuit.

Am I a quorum?

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: ramset on December 21, 2008, 08:06:57 PM
Jesus
I am Quite sure you will have quorum
    Chet
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: innovation_station on December 21, 2008, 09:25:05 PM
That has long been a goal of mine also jesus.

As a matter of fact, while trying to do just that, I discovered an anomalous charging effect on the battery while the motor was not turning within the circuit.

Am I a quorum?

Regards...



hehe  this is how i built my mkc coil .... :D

same deal.....   no movement  ;)

ist
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: spinner on December 21, 2008, 09:46:38 PM
@all

My goal here is to run a motor with a 1.5v or 9v battery and charge the battery while running the motor.

The question is:
If I have a circuit, like the camera circuit, that increase the source voltage from 1.5v to 12v, How I can feedback to the source battery without conflict between the two different voltages?

Jesus

Check out the standard power/energy and U/I concepts...
Cheers!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 10:36:17 PM
@all

I will not make you suffer. The circuit is very simple. It runs a newman motor. but the 1.5 battery only last 4 minutes.
Lets see all the brilliant minds that are on this forum at work. I will do my best too.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 21, 2008, 10:51:59 PM

Thank you jesus

That was the very first time I ever said those words. :)

I'm 'spiritual'...and a recovering cathoholic.

Seriously though..have you tried attaching your 'jule thief' to the circuit ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 10:57:47 PM
@capzro

I tried but I burnt the transistor in the process. Did not have a good guide schematic to do it. I know a little about electronics, not much.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 21, 2008, 11:14:45 PM

That is interesting in itself jesus...I would have thought that the 'j/t' would just simply not have the power.

I'm not sure what it means..I'm sure someone else will know if there is anything significant to that.

Is there a way to do manually what the transistor does electronically...just to see if the 'j/t' will pull the load ?

Regards...
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 11:19:53 PM
@capzro

It must have been a bad connection I made.

The easiest part of all is the booster circuit.
The most difficult part is to make the battery to accept the feedback charge without getting the motor stopped.
Because when I connect the IN4007 to the 1.5v battery, the motor stops inmediately.
Must be a conflict of different voltages I think.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on December 21, 2008, 11:31:06 PM

We must be overlooking something.

There was a guy on utube about a year or so ago, who had his lawnmower running twice as long as normal, using what he called a batpacitator...he had his battery somehow giving up its entire charge before recharging.

Regards...
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: AbbaRue on December 21, 2008, 11:31:44 PM
Build two identical units and use the output of #1 to charge the battery of #2.
Then use the output from #2 to charge the battery of #1, problem solved.  ;D
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 21, 2008, 11:48:05 PM
@abbarue

I tried that with two bedini motors and when the second one was connected the first one stopped each time.
I am studying a circuit schematic that @energymover recommended me. If it is good I will post it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 22, 2008, 12:12:02 AM
@ Jesus:

Thanks for the invite here.  I too have wanted to do something like this for quite a while.  Somehow, I think the answer might be in combining electrical and mechanical devices in an efficient way as to avoid the loses from conversion.  I believe it can be done, and will be done, hopefully by someone from here.  This is how I got interested in Bedini's work, the earth battery, Captainpecan's experiments, and all the stuff on the Joule Thief topic.  Combining these things together in some way might hold the answer.

I will go back and read all of the previous posts in more detail before jumping in with any of my ideas.  thanks again.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 22, 2008, 12:26:48 AM
Thanks pirate for joining!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 22, 2008, 05:43:33 AM
@all

My goal here is to run a motor with a 1.5v or 9v battery and charge the battery while running the motor.

The question is:
If I have a circuit, like the camera circuit, that increase the source voltage from 1.5v to 12v, How I can feedback to the source battery without conflict between the two different voltages?

Jesus

Here is a simple thought. (probably too simple)

If the source battery is 1.5 vdc and your circuit ups it to 12 vdc, why not feed that to 8 1.5 vdc batteries in series so they add up to the upped source voltage?  Then you would not need anything to step down which would create more losses.  Once the 8 1.5 bats are fully charged, pull out one and use it for the source and put the first one in the series of eight.  Actually, you could do this with a simple switching set-up.  Tie all 8 bats in series but have a lead to each one so you can select any one of them and also include the source.  I am not explaining this right but basically, Bat 1 is the source, bats 2-9 are the destination.  When ever you want you can make bat 2 the source and bats 1, and 3-9 are the destination.  This is sort of what I have been thinking about.  At first, I would use manual switching but later, after you have established that this works (IF) then you can make an automatic timed switching network that would select the appropriate bats at the correct time, once you know when/how often, this needs to be done.

Probably a crazy idea but, when I first started making my Bedini SG motor, this is what I always wanted to do.  I have not finished my motor yet, I keep getting sidetracked by other interesting but related things.

Great topic by the way.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 22, 2008, 06:37:31 AM
Thank you @pirate

Here is another piece of the schematic as it is working right now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 25, 2008, 04:39:56 PM
@all

Even though only a few responded to this thread, the whole thing is this:

Happy holidays!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 25, 2008, 06:02:25 PM
@ Jesus:

You have this running right now?  How is it working?  Or, are you still building it?  If you have the ability to make a video or post some pictures, I would love to see it, even if it is not completed yet.  I can sort of follow schematics for the most part but, to me, there is nothing like seeing it in 3d.  What type of motor are you using?  There are some very efficient and very powerful dc motors out now for things like the RC market and robots.  These motors did not exist 15 years ago to my knowledge. I can't wait to see what you have.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 25, 2008, 07:41:52 PM
@ Jesus:

You have this running right now?  How is it working?  Or, are you still building it?  If you have the ability to make a video or post some pictures, I would love to see it, even if it is not completed yet.  I can sort of follow schematics for the most part but, to me, there is nothing like seeing it in 3d.  What type of motor are you using?  There are some very efficient and very powerful dc motors out now for things like the RC market and robots.  These motors did not exist 15 years ago to my knowledge. I can't wait to see what you have.

Bill

@pirate

The motor is running already. I finished it a year ago.
At the moment my photo camera is not disponible but as soon as I get it together again I will post some photos.
The motor is not that impressive, the value is on the circuit used to make it run.
I am using a newman motor. Running it with a 1.5v battery circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on December 26, 2008, 06:51:45 PM
@ nievesoliveras

I happened to run across an interesting video on UTube yesterday where someone is using an SG setup with an extra solenoid coil to feedback into the run battery http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA&feature=channel_page

Unfortunately you can't see much in the way of wiring but he mentioned in another video that he will be making available some drawings soon. 

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 26, 2008, 07:28:00 PM
Thank @goat

I will watch that video rigth now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2008, 07:38:03 PM
Wow, that is cool.  He is taking extra power off of the back side of his core.  It didn't appear to slow down his other charging circuit so I guess this is really extra juice for free.  Nice video.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 26, 2008, 07:47:50 PM
@goat @pirate

Indeed it is a good video. And he states on the more info section that it is a special coil he has.
He adds to it a diode and connects it to the source.
I was trying to do that with the camera circuit. Adding the capacitor taken from it and adding a diode to the output. Then connecting it to the battery.

The problem has been the festivities have got me ocuppied.
I have now to reorganize myself again and begin to make tests and experiments till I hit the jackpot of attaining my goal.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 26, 2008, 09:21:49 PM
@ Jesus:

I hope you hit your goal.  Just don't give up.  You'll do it.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 01:09:15 AM
@pirate

Thank you.

I think I found the recipe to get the 1.5 volts from the same motor coil.
It is:
Desired voltage = Coil output X R1/R2

It is been said that this formula gives the correct values of R1 or R2 if you already know the coil output and one resistance value.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 04:31:43 PM
@all

This was the last experiment I did.
On the breadboard, the circuit on the left is the supposed Bedini self running circuit. The circuit on the right is the 1.5v to 12v booster circuit. (Could not get it self running)

I must now incorporate to this one of this two other circuits using the formula posted before. I will need to read a pdf file about electronics I got from the internet in order to understand how to properly divide the voltage to get 1.5v to run either the Joule thief circuit or the camera circuit.

Either of them will be used to feedback to the source at least 2v. I know that it puts out around 1000v dc the camera circuit and the joule thief around 60v0lts ac.

I will try to feedback to the source the output of either one without dividing the voltage.  Then I will try with the voltage divided.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 06:39:00 PM
@all

In order to understand and for later use i will include this composition of the series resistors explanation.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 07:13:24 PM
@all

Another important part to be used later as reference.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 08:47:45 PM
@all

Another reference.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 27, 2008, 09:55:43 PM
@all

So according to this, the connection should be like this.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on December 28, 2008, 01:26:11 AM
@ Jesus:

Nice work there!  Just a suggestion as far as the camera circuits go.  The board you show looks like a Kodak board and I would strongly recommend the Fuji board.  But, some of the folks have purchased the "exact same" camera as I did and got different Fuji boards with different transformers.  I bought a second one today and I will open it up later to see what I got.  We figured out it is sort of like a grab bag deal.  Whatever they rebuilt and sent out to the stores that week is what you get.  I am just really impressed at what this board is able to do and, hopefully, it might help put you over the top.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 28, 2008, 01:50:35 AM
@pirate

I have been trying to get a fuji camera circuit, but I have not been able to find it on the shoping centers here. The only ones are Kodak or another one with the name of the drug store that sells it.

I made measurements on the voltage of the camera and the voltage of the joule thief and used a potentiometer on the joule thief to divide the voltage coming from the battery and the output voltage is the same even though the LED is dimmed. Meaning that I am doing something wrong on the connections.

Happy holidays!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 29, 2008, 03:38:57 AM
@all

I was making tests with a potentiometer and the joule thief again.
When I turn the potentiometer all the way to the right the LED glows very bright and the meter shows 2.55v dc.
When I turn the knob left to the minimum current to light the LED the meter shows 2.46. I need to find the right spot to connect the potentiometer so I can get an output of 1.5v.

By the way the potentiometer is 50k.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 29, 2008, 04:15:13 AM
@all

The potentiometer was connected like so:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 29, 2008, 01:42:50 PM
@all

I had a dream last night.
In the dream I discovered that I do not need to use a potentiometer to reduce the voltage to 1.5v.
I should leave it like it is. Because in order to charge a 1.5v battery the voltage needs to be higher.

So with that part solved or out of the way, I need now to experiment with the bifilar coil output.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on December 30, 2008, 02:05:23 PM
@all

Happy Holidays

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 04, 2009, 04:16:14 PM
Hello Everyone . I am fusionchip the creator of the video with the piggyback coil .I have been following some of the solid state  self running threads in hope of Building a tiny self runner and even have 5 of the fugi boards like Pirate has and they are nice . I have a CFl running on one right now . I have a schematic of My Bedini / selfchargin Circuit but i can't get it out of the original format made with design works 4 lite . Its a cct file . My Scanner is not working i can print it out .I can also save it to a prn file ??. My Hacked CVS video camera is not good enuff to pick up the details of the schematic.I'll be more than happy to send it to someone who can convert it to a gif or jpeg for posting .Thanks .. AL
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 12:31:49 AM
@gadgetmall

Hello Everyone . I am fusionchip the creator of the video with the piggyback coil .I have been following some of the solid state  self running threads in hope of Building a tiny self runner and even have 5 of the fugi boards like Pirate has and they are nice . I have a CFl running on one right now . I have a schematic of My Bedini / selfchargin Circuit but i can't get it out of the original format made with design works 4 lite . Its a cct file . My Scanner is not working i can print it out .I can also save it to a prn file ??. My Hacked CVS video camera is not good enuff to pick up the details of the schematic.I'll be more than happy to send it to someone who can convert it to a gif or jpeg for posting .Thanks .. AL

I dont know if my irfanview can see cct files, but if it can, I can convert it to gif or jpg very easily. Also for not to take the credit from you, you can search for " irfanview " on the internet and install it on your computer to convert files from one format to another.
I use it to convert my compositions from paint bmp to jpg or gif.
It is excellent and it is free!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 05, 2009, 12:51:45 AM
Ok heres a Screen Snap in Word ! I guessed at the Piggyback coil Because im not taking it apart. :-\ Also a few of the parts are not marked like the diodes and the Osc Cap.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: hartiberlin on January 05, 2009, 01:14:17 AM
Okay,here is the picture as a JPEG File.

Many thanks.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on January 05, 2009, 02:34:16 AM
Welcome gadgetmall !

Thanks for posting your version of the Bedini with the feedback, it's definitely a different variation.

@ Stefan - I'm reposting the diagram as your last post left part of it hidden.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 01:17:02 PM
Thank you  @gadgetmall, @goat

I studied the graphic and straigten it up a litle and added some labels asking for parts value.
The edited graphic is included.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 05, 2009, 01:22:33 PM
@Jesus
Thank you for letting me post my schematic. I know this isn't  the Joule thief  circuit but it is a feedback circuit and it does run itself . I can't believe i am the only one who has posted a working diagram of this . Then again it may not be replicative because of this old relay coil from the 50's 60's. I am afraid to rip it open as I am still amazed to see this self run as a motor and self oscillate and i don't want to ruin it . I freaked out thinking i did something only the Aliens did  :o anyways i didn't mean to hijack your wonderful thread.We WILL make this work as you stated in the beginning of this thread. I have been working on a prototype Fugi with an extra torroid . I'll keep ya posted ! God Bless . I love your name .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 01:30:01 PM
@all

I tried last night to post my last experiment, but it seemed that the site was at its maximym capacity and I could not.
Today I could make one post and am trying to make the one I could not post yesterday.

It is a triple circuit on the same breadboard. It has a Joule thief, a camera flash circuit and an audio transformer, all working with just one 1.5v battery, using two different circuit configurations.

From the left: Joule Thief, Flash transformer, Audio transformer.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 05, 2009, 03:21:19 PM
@nievesoliver
                   Awesome!! Take the output from one of them and run it thru a bridge Rectifier back to battery. Also here is the missing parts schemitic corrected of My Bedini Feedback Modification . I think its all correct . I got the Scr out of a large Flash Unit .the cap that i use to trigger it is
a Millitary Part and all it  has on it is k-101 ??  The cap i use for oscillator is 2 inches long and waxy.Also Mil. I have 4 DMM's and none of them have Capacitor on them:(  Hope this Helps and where did you get that breadboard? All i have is Micro Temp Variable Soldering Station.. and wire.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 05:12:14 PM
@gadgetmall

@nievesoliver
                   Awesome!! Take the output from one of them and run it thru a bridge Rectifier back to battery. Also here is the missing parts schemitic corrected of My Bedini Feedback Modification . I think its all correct . I got the Scr out of a large Flash Unit .the cap that i use to trigger it is
a Millitary Part and all it  has on it is k-101 ??  The cap i use for oscillator is 2 inches long and waxy.Also Mil. I have 4 DMM's and none of them have Capacitor on them:(  Hope this Helps and where did you get that breadboard? All i have is Micro Temp Variable Soldering Station.. and wire.

The breadboard is at:
https://www.allelectronics.com/index.php?page=item&id=PB-400&extra=a%3A2%3A%7Bi%3A0%3Bs%3A40%3A%2203823345592a403b2f4a37a59384e7ab28f02be1%22%3Bi%3A1%3Bs%3A0%3A%22%22%3B%7D

Some months ago I composed this Joule thief from an information on an instructable from http://instructables.com
Today I included it on the breadboard and now I have four circuits running at the same time with a single 1.5v battery.
I was trying to use the ouptput of one of them to recharge the battery and found that it does not need to be divided its output voltage. The problem is to run it from the voltage comming out from the coil.

I will do it I just need some more knowledge of electronics.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 05:24:36 PM
@Jesus
Thank you for letting me post my schematic. I know this isn't  the Joule thief  circuit but it is a feedback circuit and it does run itself . I can't believe i am the only one who has posted a working diagram of this . Then again it may not be replicative because of this old relay coil from the 50's 60's. I am afraid to rip it open as I am still amazed to see this self run as a motor and self oscillate and i don't want to ruin it . I freaked out thinking i did something only the Aliens did  :o anyways i didn't mean to hijack your wonderful thread.We WILL make this work as you stated in the beginning of this thread. I have been working on a prototype Fugi with an extra torroid . I'll keep ya posted ! God Bless . I love your name .

Forgive me. I did not see this one.
There is one guy that made a self running motor using four full rectifiers and never answered my emails asking for the information he offered on his yotube video.
Watching the video again posted on a thread that I dont remember the name because the emails that this site used to send werent sent and all got a little crazy. I asked a question about something on the video and a member of this forum answered it on that thread, causing my mind to light up and I made a possible schematic of it. But I have not been able to gather all the parts needed to try it.
The point is that that schematic relates exactly with what we are trying to accomplish.
Maybe mixing all of those ideas we can get something to give the public and enjoy too.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on January 05, 2009, 08:21:31 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras can you please post schematic of that circuit in the photo?
Thanks.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 09:13:53 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras can you please post schematic of that circuit in the photo?
Thanks.

Sure. It is not one circuit only. It is the mix of these circuits.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 05, 2009, 09:32:16 PM
@all

Because I need some visual schematic for reference I will post some graphics I composed about transformers.
One is about the magnetic fields on a transformer. The other one is about the types of transformers available.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 03:03:30 AM
@all

There are now, including @gadgetmall and @energymover recommended circuits, two possible self runner circuits to combine or study.
I post them again to have them together for reference.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 06, 2009, 12:27:45 PM
@nievesoliver
 thanks for posting and cleaning up My schematic. Please note that it is posted for replication by others to help Real World Energy problems but also note that it is My intellectual property and should be note as so . Even though the circuit is 95% Bedini the other 5 % Is My Invention and it does Work. Thanks!! Well it seems that this thread needs to be brought up again at the jule thief thread as they are trying to feedback them there too !! Have a great day!!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 06, 2009, 12:34:39 PM
AUTHOR EDITED
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 12:46:25 PM
@all

There are now, including @gadgetmall and @energymover recommended circuits, two possible self runner circuits to combine or study.
I post them again to have them together for reference.

Jesus

@gadgetmall

It is known that the circuit is yours, even though I edited it I did not sign it as usually I do by stating that It was edited by me. I do respect you.
I ask your forgiveness for any misunderstanding.
It is just that for me to try it it must be understandable and well presented.
The circuit from @energymover suffered the same cleaning up I did to yours.
Again accept my apologies.

The one I am interested in is this one.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 06, 2009, 12:55:46 PM
@nievesoliver
                  Its all good i just would like the edited version with my handle on it used . I Like the new circuit . Is that a Newman motor . this is my next project! how many windings if you know ,does it take to make it run on 1 volt ???I think its a matter of timing on a mechanical commutator to capture the back feed with a diode Back to Source..I want to do it with solid state .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 12:57:09 PM
@all

One possible arrangement of the circuits involved and by that I mean the Bedini circuit, the Newman Coil, the camera flash circuit and the dc to dc booster from LT is this one:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on January 06, 2009, 01:42:49 PM
Hi NieveSoliveras can you please be more specific about the 1.5v  running circuit posted?
There are tiny components that cannot be recognized.
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 02:31:29 PM
Hi NieveSoliveras can you please be more specific about the 1.5v  running circuit posted?
There are tiny components that cannot be recognized.
Thanks

@guruji

What is your specific question?
Which component you do not recognize?

All the components are tiny and I dont know which one you are interested in.
Remember, they are three different circuits.
We can pick one and analyze it for the benefit of us all.

Jesus

Edit:
The way I usually see it is with a free program called irfanview. With this program you can zoom on a specific part and have a better view of the components. This way it has more sense and you can see how the labeled components are interconnected.
Also with the irfanview program you can convert the jpg file to bmp and make annotations or integrate another circuit to it.
Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 05:36:45 PM
@all

Thanks to the help of @gyulasun we have another feedback to the source reference circuit to study!
The more circuits we have to analyze the more opportunities of success we have.
More info on this link: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5446.msg124693#msg124693

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 06, 2009, 07:09:21 PM
@mvmcman

Thanks for pointing that out, it seems that nobody else noticed it. Again thanks.

@all

As pointed out the second circuit on this link will make a short circuit if the ampmeter is connected that way.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg148303#msg148303
I will repair it as soon as I can and repost the changes.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on January 06, 2009, 08:58:22 PM
Hi those circuits work or you're just testing?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 07, 2009, 02:49:29 AM
@guruji
          Hello . I don't know about the other ones but My Circuit is Working for me .. Have a Look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA  also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnYQvYEwkM
there is a variable and its my piggy back coil . It was Pre Made in the 50's 60's and came from an old heavy duty Mercury Relay Switch . I peeked at the wire on it and its correct but i refuse to tear it apart . Judging by the core size and the weight i came up with the windings . Also the resistance is 40 ohms .
@ nievesoliver
 is there a parts list for the unmarked parts in the last Schematic?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 07, 2009, 03:50:24 AM
@guruji

The only circuit that I have tested is the one with the newman motor and 1.5v. It works as stated. What I am trying now is to make it recharge the source battery, hence the name of the thread "Feedback to the source".

@gadgetmall

The part unmarked on the last schematic is a resistor, @gyulasun states that it should be 47ohms the first time then change it as needed or eliminate it if testing you see that it works better without it.

The whole explanation comes from this link: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5446.msg124693#msg124693

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 07, 2009, 04:19:50 AM
@mvmcman

The changes you recommended were made. Thank you. I will like to have clear that this is not my circuit.
My circuit is the 1.5v runner.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Thaelin on January 07, 2009, 08:37:40 AM
Hi Gadgetmall:
   On the coil, if you can identify the size of wire used, it can be figured out. Dimensions and hole size. By using the wire chart, by size you can figure out how many feet of wire are in it to make 40 ohms.  Can you post that info if known.  Thanks.

Thaelin


@guruji
          Hello . I don't know about the other ones but My Circuit is Working for me .. Have a Look http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA  also http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRnYQvYEwkM
there is a variable and its my piggy back coil . It was Pre Made in the 50's 60's and came from an old heavy duty Mercury Relay Switch . I peeked at the wire on it and its correct but i refuse to tear it apart . Judging by the core size and the weight i came up with the windings . Also the resistance is 40 ohms .
@ nievesoliver
 is there a parts list for the unmarked parts in the last Schematic?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 07, 2009, 12:56:09 PM
Hi Gadgetmall:
   On the coil, if you can identify the size of wire used, it can be figured out. Dimensions and hole size. By using the wire chart, by size you can figure out how many feet of wire are in it to make 40 ohms.  Can you post that info if known.  Thanks.

Thaelin

@thaelin

I know the question is for @gadgetmall. But there is this small
Inductor Design Calculator
by David E. Powell, KA4KNG

That gives the exact lenght of wire needed among other things if you input the desired inductance, the gauge of the wire and the diameter of the coil. An example here:

-------------------------------------------------------------
Desired inductance in microhenries? 120
Gauge or diameter of wire in inches? 26
Diameter of coil form in inches? 2

calculating.

Overall coil diameter......   2.031884 inches
Average coil diameter......   2.015942 inches
Depth of coil..............   1.594223E-02 inches
Length of coil.............   .6855158 inches
Length of wire (approx)....   22 feet, 3 inches
Number of layers...........   1
Number of turns............   43
Number of turns per layer..   43
Actual inductance..........   121.426 microhenries
Coil DC resistance.........   .9261631 ohms
------------------------------------------------------------------------

So if you know the inductance that should have a coil with 40ohms and the other information this program needs, this program can give you the answer.

The small program is included here as a zipfile.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on January 07, 2009, 10:12:08 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras can you please post the schematic of this 1.5v motor with newman motor?
If anyone tested those circuits of the 1.5v self runner please let us know?.
Thanks guys.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 08, 2009, 11:32:13 AM
Hi Nievesoliveras can you please post the schematic of this 1.5v motor with newman motor?
If anyone tested those circuits of the 1.5v self runner please let us know?.
Thanks guys.

@guruji

I have to make the schematic. I dont have a schematic done. I thought that the schematic presented was self explanatory. I will do my best to share the information.
I would like to see some replications made.

In the meantime you can see the excellent job of @jonnydavro on this link:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=JPiTorYYlAU

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 08, 2009, 03:49:28 PM
The Circuit is composed of three different circuits.

One is the simplest Bedini circuit, the other is the flash circuit, the third is the step-up circuit.

I finished the last two. They are included.

The Bedini circuit is known worldwide. But if you want me to include it i will do.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 08, 2009, 04:15:35 PM
@all

I has been very difficult to build this Bedini Circuit on WinQcad. The program ask for pins, package etc.

The three circuits together on one paint graphic is included.

I will try to connect them together eventually.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 08, 2009, 11:56:17 PM
@all

First I must say that even though a circuit works for me, it does not mean that it will do exactly the same results for you.
I discovered that by changing the flash transformer for an audio transformer, the second potentiometer can be eliminated.
That is because the output voltage of an audio transformer is a lot less than that of a flash transformer.

The connections are the same, the only thing that changes is the output voltage used as feedback to the source.
I have not tested this circuit yet. This is supposed to be a group effort, but I have been left alone.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 09, 2009, 12:42:46 AM
@ Jesus:

I am still here and reading your topic.  I have been very busy lately and have not had the time to try any of these ideas.....yet.  I just wanted you to know that I am here and reading everything posted.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 09, 2009, 02:50:22 AM
@pirate

Thank you pirate for your support.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 09, 2009, 03:48:22 AM
@All
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 09, 2009, 04:00:42 AM
@All      Dang Enter key !! I try to get a Gr and it Post every time . Sorry..
 Ok I am Still Here for you guys and have been up for days and night experimenting . I got another camera with macro and i am waiting for some parts and breadboard to come in . Great Job Collecting those schematics Jesus . They are helpful .In between Jule  Thief thread and this one is taking all the time on line to read if you know what i mean . Plus daily Life as a Dad /mom is killing me . that is why i stay up until 3 in the morn at the kitchen table experimenting . I made a Joule thief with  2-40  windings number 22 then on top of that i put 100 windings number 32 and on the other side 20 turns number 16 . I hooked the 32 up to a diode and cap and fed back to the battery . Guess what ? It is slowing down the discharge rate id say a factor of 75 % . i actually see the voltage from a partially dead battery ie 1.100 volts go to 1.115 . . Ok so i put a pot on the base to further reduce the transistor base voltage and put a pot on the output to battery so i could regulate the feedback to source and keep the led lit . i also have another led lit on the number 16 wire . I will probably rectify it and feed it back as well .. they have been running for two days now with just a minimal drop in primary aaa battery ..thats all for now . Kirk out !
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on January 09, 2009, 04:42:19 AM
@ gadgetmall

Thanks for posting, those are promising results!  If the 20 turns of number 16 could handle it, could it be fed to a separate identical circuit and have an even further gain before feedback?  Just wondering  ???

I've been looking over your Bedini feedback but I'm still missing some information.  I don't want to clutter this thread so would it be OK with you if you or I were to open a new thread in the Bedini section and post all the information you gave so far to try and sort it all out? 

@ Jesus - You are not alone, I watch this and other threads but don't respond much, don't despair though, I see the work you and others are doing, it doesn't go unnoticed.  Don't give up  ;)

Regards,
Paul



Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 09, 2009, 02:13:02 PM
@All      Dang Enter key !! I try to get a Gr and it Post every time . Sorry..
 Ok I am Still Here for you guys and have been up for days and night experimenting . I got another camera with macro and i am waiting for some parts and breadboard to come in . Great Job Collecting those schematics Jesus . They are helpful .In between Jule  Thief thread and this one is taking all the time on line to read if you know what i mean . Plus daily Life as a Dad /mom is killing me . that is why i stay up until 3 in the morn at the kitchen table experimenting . I made a Joule thief with  2-40  windings number 22 then on top of that i put 100 windings number 32 and on the other side 20 turns number 16 . I hooked the 32 up to a diode and cap and fed back to the battery . Guess what ? It is slowing down the discharge rate id say a factor of 75 % . i actually see the voltage from a partially dead battery ie 1.100 volts go to 1.115 . . Ok so i put a pot on the base to further reduce the transistor base voltage and put a pot on the output to battery so i could regulate the feedback to source and keep the led lit . i also have another led lit on the number 16 wire . I will probably rectify it and feed it back as well .. they have been running for two days now with just a minimal drop in primary aaa battery ..thats all for now . Kirk out !
@ gadgetmall

Thanks for posting, those are promising results!  If the 20 turns of number 16 could handle it, could it be fed to a separate identical circuit and have an even further gain before feedback?  Just wondering  ???

I've been looking over your Bedini feedback but I'm still missing some information.  I don't want to clutter this thread so would it be OK with you if you or I were to open a new thread in the Bedini section and post all the information you gave so far to try and sort it all out? 

@ Jesus - You are not alone, I watch this and other threads but don't respond much, don't despair though, I see the work you and others are doing, it doesn't go unnoticed.  Don't give up  ;)

Regards,
Paul





Once and I dont remember where I posted the results of a Joule thief that was recharging batteries. It was very small the amount of charge it was giving. But I remember that the battery was very low and was revived by the Joule thief recharge.

I began experimenting with flash circuits and had to use the breadborad and disassemble the joule thief circuit. That circuit was so good that the toroid coil seemed to be singing a tune while it was working. Later I learned that it needed a drop or two of shellac to keep her quiet.
What I dont remember was the amount of windings I used and I dont know if I posted it that day.

@goat you can open any new thread you want and post all the information you like from this thread this information is public now.

I have not done the new toroid coil with the new way of winding it, because I still do not have it clear inside my mind. If I can do it inside my mind, I can do it in the outside world.

Thank you.

Jesus

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 09, 2009, 06:10:36 PM
@all

In the meantime I wait for the parts from goldmine I sent for, I found an intersting video that relates to a magnetic mill thread that was closed because the one that made the invention got stuck on a loop repeating the same thing over and over.
His idea was great but...
The link for a video that explains briefly how to accomplish the rotor movement with just magnets is this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHWN4V3Qe0w

I hope that it works and be to some help for someone.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 10, 2009, 03:52:13 AM
@ Jesus:

I just posted a way to possibly "close the loop" in the JT topic area.  This idea was presented to me from Hans Vonlieven.  I did not want to repost it here as it is not exactly using the same approach as you are, but the results may be the same.

See what you think and if you like the idea.  Feel free to post it here too.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 10, 2009, 01:05:29 PM
@all

Here is another possible feedback to the source circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 10, 2009, 09:10:54 PM
@ Jesus:

I just posted a way to possibly "close the loop" in the JT topic area.  This idea was presented to me from Hans Vonlieven.  I did not want to repost it here as it is not exactly using the same approach as you are, but the results may be the same.

See what you think and if you like the idea.  Feel free to post it here too.

Bill

@pirate

I dont know why but your message were not there yesterday when I posted the last circuit and now it appears before the circuit post.

Thank you pirate, I posted a photo yesterday at Joule thief thread that has a solar panel on an ice box that was a self runner. I have tried to get the link again and it seems tha it has been removed.
I have to answer a question from a member of your thread and I will post a link for something that was on the competition that date.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on January 10, 2009, 11:17:33 PM
Hi guys regarding the Marcus Wagner circuit can one exclude the input and output 12v 20w bulb and without volt and ampmeter too?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 11, 2009, 02:33:30 AM
Hi guys regarding the Marcus Wagner circuit can one exclude the input and output 12v 20w bulb and without volt and ampmeter too?
Thanks

I got understood that you can get rid of the voltmeters and the ampmeters, but the input and output bulbs are a must to the circuit. They must stay.

@energymover gave me this link: http://peswiki.com/index.php/Directory:MWC:Schematic
You can go there and there is all the information about that circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 11, 2009, 01:40:08 PM
@all

You all know that my direction is the feedback to the source. I found on @pirate's thread a toroid coil design that could be used to obtain feedback to recharge the running battery, the good part is that it is running with just 1.5v battery and its outpput is like the flash circuit transformer, maybe a little less, because it is still going on testing. But I really think that if it is well understood, it can help us with the circuits we build needing an expensive transformer.

I will post the team work from that group here as a reference for later use.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 11, 2009, 02:00:10 PM
@all

I would like to give credit to all those people that in one way or another has helped us on this thread.

@cap-z-ro, @ramset, @innovation-station, @spinner, @abbarue, @pirate88179, @goat, @gadgetmall, @hartiberlin, @guruji, @gyulasun, @mvmcman, @thaelin,

To all the team from @pirate's thread I take my hat off before you all.

And if you think that you should also be mentioned here, The thanks go to you too.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 11, 2009, 02:18:57 PM

Your tireless contribution toward the common good is evident jesus bears mention...you and those you have been working with are an inspiration to us all.

People like me are just providing support and encouragement, with the odd suggestion...the bulk of the load is on the backs of the active builders.

The spirit of cooperation and teamwork among this group is an example for all to follow.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 12, 2009, 12:59:03 AM
Thank you @cap-z-ro

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on January 12, 2009, 02:31:14 AM
Jesus Jesus
If there was such a shielding material as shown in that YouTube video, we would all have a perpetual motion machine.
Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on January 12, 2009, 02:49:25 AM
Jesus Jesus
If there was such a shielding material as shown in that YouTube video, we would all have a perpetual motion machine.
Tropes

@ tropes

You raised a valid question here, I have lots of old dead HDD drives,

Are the 2 half circle metal plates used in the HDD's avbove the magnets made of the "shielding material" that we could use here? 
Are they made of the wrong or right metal for shielding?  I heard they were made of Mu metal, if so can we save these and use them to our advantage in the above design? 

I'd hate to throw these away and find out later they were the key to OU  :P

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 12, 2009, 03:31:30 AM
@ Goat:

I have read that those "shields" are not really shields at all but help to orient the magnetic field in the Hard drive unit.  More like a magnetic wave guide of sorts.  I have several of those magnets (they are powerful and good to have around) and if you take off the "shielding" and test it yourself on other magnets and iron, I think you will see that what I have read is correct.  No one has come up with a real magnetic shield that I am aware of.  If they had, almost anyone could make a free energy machine or device.  Check on this to see if I am correct. (about the hard drive mags)

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on January 12, 2009, 04:24:58 AM
 
Quote
@ tropes

You raised a valid question here, I have lots of old dead HDD drives,

Are the 2 half circle metal plates used in the HDD's avbove the magnets made of the "shielding material" that we could use here? 
Are they made of the wrong or right metal for shielding?  I heard they were made of Mu metal, if so can we save these and use them to our advantage in the above design? 

I'd hate to throw these away and find out later they were the key to OU  :P

Regards,
Paul
The problem is the attraction that magnets have to Mumetal rather than eliminating or blocking the magnetic field.
Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 12, 2009, 06:39:29 AM
@all

The mu-metal parts of the hdd is the parts holding the magnets. The magnets stick to it like any metal,but where it gets interesting is if you stick a piece of metal on the other side it won't stick, but magnets will. the disk is made of aluminum or ceramic, and plated with palladium.

Thanks
Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 12, 2009, 02:30:55 PM
Jesus Jesus
If there was such a shielding material as shown in that YouTube video, we would all have a perpetual motion machine.
Tropes

The shield do exist and it is very easy to apply. I have the address of the manufacturer somewhere on my hardisk. I will make a search and if I find it I will post it.


@ tropes

You raised a valid question here, I have lots of old dead HDD drives,

Are the 2 half circle metal plates used in the HDD's avbove the magnets made of the "shielding material" that we could use here? 
Are they made of the wrong or right metal for shielding?  I heard they were made of Mu metal, if so can we save these and use them to our advantage in the above design? 

I'd hate to throw these away and find out later they were the key to OU  :P

Regards,
Paul

I have some of those metal shields too. Lets hope we find a solution of how to apply them to a project.

@ Goat:

I have read that those "shields" are not really shields at all but help to orient the magnetic field in the Hard drive unit.  More like a magnetic wave guide of sorts.  I have several of those magnets (they are powerful and good to have around) and if you take off the "shielding" and test it yourself on other magnets and iron, I think you will see that what I have read is correct.  No one has come up with a real magnetic shield that I am aware of.  If they had, almost anyone could make a free energy machine or device.  Check on this to see if I am correct. (about the hard drive mags)

Bill

Again I have an addres of a company that sells the magnetic shield in sheet form that can be applied very easy.
I need to find it or ask magnetmill inventor ELIEVE. He has all that information already.

The problem is the attraction that magnets have to Mumetal rather than eliminating or blocking the magnetic field.
Tropes


Exactly that is what happens when that metal is used it is so magnetic absorbant that it takes all one side of the magnet to itself, hence the magnet cannot spread to other parts.

@all

The mu-metal parts of the hdd is the parts holding the magnets. The magnets stick to it like any metal,but where it gets interesting is if you stick a piece of metal on the other side it won't stick, but magnets will. the disk is made of aluminum or ceramic, and plated with palladium.

Thanks
Mark

You are right on that information the metal will not get magnetic but will accept a magnet.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 12, 2009, 02:39:46 PM
@all

In the meantime I wait for the parts I send for from goldmine and I can find the address of the magnetic shield manufacturer.

I will post the first part of my feedback project. I am reconstructing the whole thing to see where is the problem with it and I am taking photos as I reassemble it back according to my last composed circuit of 1.5v running.

This photos are the 1.5v to 12v booster circuit alone on the right side of the breadboard.

This is the plan I will follow to the letter as close as possible.

1.5v running with fedback to the source plan

1. photo of the 1.5v to 12v booster
2. build the 1.5v running circuit
3. photo of the two circuits together
4. test the coil output
5. photo of the coil output
6. determine the resistors needed with the formula to get 1-2volts max 3v
7. check the output is correct
8. include the feedback circuit
9. photo of the feedback circuit added
10. test the whole composition

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 12, 2009, 02:47:45 PM
@all

The magnetic shield information that ELIEVE sent me last year is here:
http://www.magnetic-shield.com/literature/pdf/mg-7.pdf

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 13, 2009, 12:40:04 PM
According to plan steps 2 and 3 are accomplished here.

I tested The transistors 3904, 2222, 9014, 4401 and 3055 with the 1.5v circuit and this time and I dont know why, none worked.
I tried tip31A transistor and it worked perfectly. Running the motor with the 1.5v to 12v booster circuit.

Photos included.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 14, 2009, 02:26:31 PM
@ all

I have been having problems with the connection. I have been two hours trying to connect.
If this does not show up as a post, there will be no post today.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 14, 2009, 02:29:11 PM
According to plan again, steps 4 and five are accomplished.

The motor coil gave between 8.5 volts and 11.46 volts while running.
The 8.5 volts were when the battery was getting low.
So this coil gives 11.46 volts with a good 1.5 volts battery.

Photos included.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 15, 2009, 12:23:32 PM
@all

To determine the resistors needed in order to get between 1.5 and  3volts I will use the formulas on the graphic here.

In order to get 3volts I need 1 resistor of 100ohms and another of 300ohms
In order to get 2volts I need 1 resistor of 100ohms and another of 500ohms

I am assuming a 12v comming from the pulse motor coil instead of 11.46v.

Because of that, any of this two voltage divider configurations must work in theory.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 16, 2009, 12:38:03 PM
According to plan steps 6 and 7 are accomplished here.

Using 1 resistor of 100 ohms and another of 500 ohms. The 100 ohms coming from the negative and the 500 ohms from the coil diode.
The circuit outputs only 0.98volts.

To get the five hundred ohms that does not exist, I used 2 one thousand ohms in parallel.

Using again 1 resistor of 100 ohms and another of 500 ohms. The 500 ohms coming from the negative and the 100 ohms from the coil diode.
The circuit outputs only 3.90volts.

That means that the true voltage differs considerably from the theoretical graphic values.

Using the formula: Desired voltage = Coil output X R1/R2 gives a different value also.

But I "hope" that it could make the audio transformer to work. We will see.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 16, 2009, 12:40:47 PM
When I added a 2200uf 50v cap to the circuit, instead of four minutes, it lasted running a long time and twice as fast. I mean with the cap addition it runs faster and for longer periods of time with a 1.5v battery. It does not recharge back though.

Edit:
The purpose of this is that I needed more than 4 minutes to make tests or prepare the camera to take photos etc.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 17, 2009, 12:48:57 PM
@all

The circuit composition I did before of 4 different circuits running with a 1.5v battery, is going to be used to test if the coil output has the strength needed to provide a 1.5volts.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 18, 2009, 06:01:31 AM
@Jesus . Nice work Man .  I have been building and building and designing feedback circuits by the hand full . If you need any parts like maybe germanium transistors to play with i have 120+ of them i bought off ebay . all different gains and base voltages . i would be glad to send you a bout 5 or 10 for a self addressed soft pack . and i will sort thru them like i have been doing getting the best gain vers bias for our / your low voltage 1.5 volt operation to further increase the positivity of the system for feedback to Source . you interested ?Drop me a pm and ill give you my address . I find this subject interesting because i do have a self runner but want to compact it to a solid state or at least Miniaturize the device to carry and power itself along with doing work . My Bedini weigh self runner weight about 40 pounds total and it ain't that portable   :o  . I hope My endeavorers will eventually help you . God Speed .. Al
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 08:14:09 AM
@Jesus . Nice work Man .  I have been building and building and designing feedback circuits by the hand full . If you need any parts like maybe germanium transistors to play with i have 120+ of them i bought off ebay . all different gains and base voltages . i would be glad to send you a bout 5 or 10 for a self addressed soft pack . and i will sort thru them like i have been doing getting the best gain vers bias for our / your low voltage 1.5 volt operation to further increase the positivity of the system for feedback to Source . you interested ?Drop me a pm and ill give you my address . I find this subject interesting because i do have a self runner but want to compact it to a solid state or at least Miniaturize the device to carry and power itself along with doing work . My Bedini weigh self runner weight about 40 pounds total and it ain't that portable   :o  . I hope My endeavorers will eventually help you . God Speed .. Al

I do accept your help. I have been trying to get parts from some part sellers and they all have some excuse for not sending the items I bought. I will PM you for the addresses. I am just tire now. It is 3am here. I am going off for today.
Thanks!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gyulasun on January 18, 2009, 11:47:21 AM
... I find this subject interesting because i do have a self runner but want to compact it to a solid state or at least Miniaturize the device to carry and power itself along with doing work .


Hi Al,

I wonder if your "self runner" runs by energy created by itself?  Do you mean that or "self runner" only a name ?

Any more details if you can?

Thanks, 
Gyula
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: spinner on January 18, 2009, 12:36:32 PM
Hi Al,

I wonder if your "self runner" runs by energy created by itself?  Do you mean that or "self runner" only a name ?

Any more details if you can?

Thanks, 
Gyula
Sorry to bump in, but - which "selfrunner" ???
Thanks!

@nievesoliveras
A resistor divider (potentiometer circuit) is widely used, but not for any kind of power intensive (or energy efficient) applications...
It works perfectly with a "high impedance" circuits (like measurement with a Universal digital V-meters...) Or, many High-Ohm electronical applications...

The name says it all. It's a "Voltage divider". It's Not the power divider.... Ohm's law.
Using a different resistor would cause the same theoretical voltage division (300 Ohm/100 Ohm is exactly the same as 300 MOhm/100 MOhm regarding a pure Voltage division...).
But in practice?

So if you want to use an efficient circuit to "match" a higher voltage source to lower voltage "drain" interaction, search for DC/DC down-converter circuits. They're much more efficient than a simple resistor divider (potentiometer) circuits.
Cheers!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 01:42:25 PM
Sorry to bump in, but - which "selfrunner" ???
Thanks!

@nievesoliveras
A resistor divider (potentiometer circuit) is widely used, but not for any kind of power intensive (or energy efficient) applications...
It works perfectly with a "high impedance" circuits (like measurement with a Universal digital V-meters...) Or, many High-Ohm electronical applications...

The name says it all. It's a "Voltage divider". It's Not the power divider.... Ohm's law.
Using a different resistor would cause the same theoretical voltage division (300 Ohm/100 Ohm is exactly the same as 300 MOhm/100 MOhm regarding a pure Voltage division...).
But in practice?

So if you want to use an efficient circuit to "match" a higher voltage source to lower voltage "drain" interaction, search for DC/DC down-converter circuits. They're much more efficient than a simple resistor divider (potentiometer) circuits.
Cheers!

I have the step down circuit already, but I need to finish this test plan to the letter to move to that other side of the experiments.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 01:46:24 PM
According to plan steps 8, 9 and 10 are accomplished here.

When I tested the circuit with the 4 circuits composition, the leds and the neon bulb, only flicked very faintly. Meaning that there is not strength on the voltage from the coil.
I tried it directly just after the 2n4007 diode and got the same results, just a little brighter.

Even though this experiment has not worked as expected, I have learned a lot doing it. I will make some more tests.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 01:59:57 PM
@gadgetmall

I did not included this circuit on the post I made yesterday at 3am, because the polarity of the transistor is not as usual and I did not dare to change it. Maybe I am wrong here, remember I dont have electronic education, what I know now is gathered while experimenting now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on January 18, 2009, 04:54:44 PM
Hi Al,

I wonder if your "self runner" runs by energy created by itself?  Do you mean that or "self runner" only a name ?

Any more details if you can?

Thanks, 
Gyula

@ gyulasun & spinner

I posted Gadgetmall's Bedini self runner in a new thread at http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg149358#msg149358

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 18, 2009, 05:05:56 PM
Your right . My transistor is pnp not npn. i'll correct it . it would be right with the pnp symbol i just wasn't thinking and stuck the first transistor symbol in there ... ???..My head hurts  :-[ Thanks for catching it .You are REal good at that and i admire that about you . I don't believe you about not knowing electronics ;D  I am getting used to a schematic drawing program and i usually draw these things late at night /early like you 3am and about have out of it .. EDIT . ARRRRHHH. Can you delete post . i don't see a delete option . i Think the darn led is reversed now . . anyways i never paid attention to the led symbol either so if the led don't light just reverse it ..feel free to correct any mistakes i made during my Novice drawings ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 18, 2009, 05:56:26 PM
@nievesoliver
                     In fact you can eliminate d3 all together . I have to dig that one out of My box of Jts and trace them out again .I know it worked asi  built it but im not sure on drawing it out polarity wise . forgive me . I haven't drawn a schematic in over 25 years . i just read them and build from them . I stick a part in there and if it don't light i reverse it :) i recall that the led is lighting from a non standard location and getting some voltage from the secondary and interfacing with the primary..I used it as an indicator for adjustments...I have to stop putting goop all over them to keep them from shorting out . that was before i got my little project proto board and the soldering pencil was what i used to hold it together . i gave a few to my daughter and made them pendant like so they wouldn't break apart. ;D PLease fix it for replication ... i need to take my meds...
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 09:57:41 PM
Your right . My transistor is pnp not npn. i'll correct it . it would be right with the pnp symbol i just wasn't thinking and stuck the first transistor symbol in there ... ???..My head hurts  :-[ Thanks for catching it .You are REal good at that and i admire that about you . I don't believe you about not knowing electronics ;D  I am getting used to a schematic drawing program and i usually draw these things late at night /early like you 3am and about have out of it .. EDIT . ARRRRHHH. Can you delete post . i don't see a delete option . i Think the darn led is reversed now . . anyways i never paid attention to the led symbol either so if the led don't light just reverse it ..feel free to correct any mistakes i made during my Novice drawings ..
@nievesoliver
                     In fact you can eliminate d3 all together . I have to dig that one out of My box of Jts and trace them out again .I know it worked asi  built it but im not sure on drawing it out polarity wise . forgive me . I haven't drawn a schematic in over 25 years . i just read them and build from them . I stick a part in there and if it don't light i reverse it :) i recall that the led is lighting from a non standard location and getting some voltage from the secondary and interfacing with the primary..I used it as an indicator for adjustments...I have to stop putting goop all over them to keep them from shorting out . that was before i got my little project proto board and the soldering pencil was what i used to hold it together . i gave a few to my daughter and made them pendant like so they wouldn't break apart. ;D PLease fix it for replication ... i need to take my meds...

@gadgetmall

You are forgiven. The value in all this is your good intentions. Maybe you are like me that take several circuits and build one from them.
The knowledge of electronics I have are trying to make the bedini motor to feedback. If you notice the first thing that you have to deal with on that circuit is with the npn transistor. Hence I can tell when it is npn or pnp.

I will make the corrections you said and repost it again.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 18, 2009, 11:16:49 PM
@gadgetmall

As I promised, the circuit is reposted and your other JT circuit is included.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 19, 2009, 12:54:36 PM
Looking the way the flash circuit has a seven winds coil over the other two. I compared it with @mk1's idea and a light turned on inside my head.
I did this version of a transformer. I took the toroid and added the seven turns of wire over the other winding and connected as the audio transformer is connected. I will let you know what hapened.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 20, 2009, 01:56:14 PM
I tried all the transistors I have on this transformer and does not work configured as the audio transformer that suppose to go in that place.
By the way, the pot that is supposed to be used, was too big for the space and too difficult to connect, so I used the transistor formula posted before instead.

Edit:
Connected as it is, the LED should light and it is not.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 20, 2009, 04:02:50 PM
hey Jesus which Schematic are you using ? Mine ? EDIT **** never mind i look back a few and i see you are trying Mk1 mod

 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 20, 2009, 04:11:41 PM
@jesus
 Theres no reason My circuit couldn't work powering your motor and feeding back . If you wind a regular 40 turn Jt  then wind two more secondaries one with 12volts and the other 12volts ,replace the dc converter  and test run the Newman on the Jt output . you will need variable resistor in any circuit you put a load on to tune it for an output .. Have you tried that ? solder some wires on your pot so they can stick in the holes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 20, 2009, 05:08:02 PM
@jesus
 Theres no reason My circuit couldn't work powering your motor and feeding back . If you wind a regular 40 turn Jt  then wind two more secondaries one with 12volts and the other 12volts ,replace the dc converter  and test run the Newman on the Jt output . you will need variable resistor in any circuit you put a load on to tune it for an output .. Have you tried that ? solder some wires on your pot so they can stick in the holes

Thank you!
The problem is that I cant make the circuit to work from the pulse motor coil output. I am making experiments and already I have the photos that I will post tomorrow.
Another thing is that, in order to accomplish my goal, the feedback has to be to the 1.5v battery of the 1.5v to 12v booster circuit.
If I cant feedback to a 1.5v battery, then I have not accomplished my goal.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 20, 2009, 06:40:17 PM
@gadgetmall

You are important here too.
The test 4 will be with your toroid recomendation.
Please fill the question marks or write the answers on a post.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 20, 2009, 06:50:06 PM
Ok let me take a look at that beginning schematic again ... Because the Newman motor is supposed to charge itself . It is Done with two contacts opposites the run contacts. Now i was told the run contact should be as tine as possible just enuff contact to spin then again the contact Just break the pickup contact catches the back spark and feeds it back with a diode to the run battery  much like Bedini circuit . Its the timing of the contacts that make it over unity and run it self . I guess you know that though But i will have another look after My and my little one eat some tomato soup . We have been playing int he snow all morning .. FUN!!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 20, 2009, 07:31:58 PM
Ok i just rethought this . What if you take the outputs ? ? and Put a Bridge on it then run it back . you probably all ready tried this with similar results of system stopped working ?  Have you tried this mod to your circuit . Look .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 20, 2009, 08:53:51 PM
@gadgetmall

I tried something similar but the circuit was not the one I have now.
View it here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg146283#msg146283

As soon as I get the parts from goldmine I will try your suggested configuration. On that order there comes 2 good small bridge rectifiers. They dont take too much space on the breadboard.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 20, 2009, 09:34:35 PM
@all

Any of you tried smoothing the bridge dc output with 2 caps and a resistor? The bridge output needs to be stabilized to work properly.
Sorry if i am out , i did not get a chance to read everything yet. :-[
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 20, 2009, 11:17:16 PM
@all

Any of you tried smoothing the bridge dc output with 2 caps and a resistor? The bridge output needs to be stabilized to work properly.
Sorry if i am out , i did not get a chance to read everything yet. :-[

Welcome @mk1.
On the answer to @gadgetmall I posted this link:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg146283#msg146283
It is something like your graphic here but without the resistor.
The connections are going to the 12v side, but if you take the positive from the rectifier and connected it to the 1.5v battery as feedback to the source, the motor stopped just right then and there.
When I finish the three tests I am doing. By the way the third is your toroid idea. I have not built it because of the wire price and my recent unemployment. But I will look for old transformers wire. Or just do it with #26 and #30 wire left from other experiments I did in the past.
I will then will test your ideas, @gadgetmall ideas, @spinner ideas and any other idea that can help us to get a true feedback to the source.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 20, 2009, 11:52:13 PM
In my experiments on feed back the problem a got was the higher voltage by the feedback raised the operating voltage , and killed the output.
I think it needs to be brought down to 1.5v to be effective.

This is a really nice tread you got here!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 21, 2009, 01:43:07 AM
@ Jesus . The problem i had with My feedback circuit that you corrected the polarity was that it would stop the oscillation unless i put a pot in there to balance ot the feed back to the battery ..Its like the resistor idea of Mk1's only variable because all these joule thieivs are using different wire cores transistors . the best way i have found with all the variables is to use two pots  one on the bias and one on the feedback secondary . as far as the number of turns to get your 1.5 volt charging and running its got to be at least 2 volts higher and at least a few Ma's above the discharge rate . again Mk1 might know the answer . I know on my bedini piggy back coil is puts out 100's of volts until i feed it back to the battery then i read 15 volts on the cathode side of the large diode i use . and it always is about 2 and a half volts above the primary running battery . so i feed 100 plus in to 12volts and it equates to 2.5 volts over the battery and 20 ma over the draw of the system ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 02:35:11 AM
In my experiments on feed back the problem a got was the higher voltage by the feedback raised the operating voltage , and killed the output.
I think it needs to be brought down to 1.5v to be effective.

This is a really nice tread you got here!

My circuit gives with the voltage divider.98v one way I think that 3.98v the other way. so the high voltage is no problem here.
I know that there is high voltage because the neon bulb lights very brilliant. But when I measure it gives the mentioned voltage.

@ Jesus . The problem i had with My feedback circuit that you corrected the polarity was that it would stop the oscillation unless i put a pot in there to balance ot the feed back to the battery ..Its like the resistor idea of Mk1's only variable because all these joule thieivs are using different wire cores transistors . the best way i have found with all the variables is to use two pots  one on the bias and one on the feedback secondary . as far as the number of turns to get your 1.5 volt charging and running its got to be at least 2 volts higher and at least a few Ma's above the discharge rate . again Mk1 might know the answer . I know on my bedini piggy back coil is puts out 100's of volts until i feed it back to the battery then i read 15 volts on the cathode side of the large diode i use . and it always is about 2 and a half volts above the primary running battery . so i feed 100 plus in to 12volts and it equates to 2.5 volts over the battery and 20 ma over the draw of the system ..

That sounds interesting. I noticed that when the battery I connect is of some voltage also happens the same you are explaining. It has happened to me too. Just the motor used to stop.

@all
I will post the results I have for the people that are following the thread and finish the experiments with the transformers or joule thiefs. I will test also your ideas and I will post my results.

I do not have fancy equipment. I only have a digital meter and an analog meter, also a strong desire to succeed.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 21, 2009, 04:13:04 AM
The 555 would not be affected by changes to voltage , When you send more voltage the timing of the core is killed By the change in freq.The resistor and transistor would go,but you need to power the 555.
A 1.5 volt zener diode would be nice , they just don't make them.Any type of system will make you loose some juice.

My dollar , 2 cent is not enough anymore.

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 02:01:09 PM
The 555 would not be affected by changes to voltage , When you send more voltage the timing of the core is killed By the change in freq.The resistor and transistor would go,but you need to power the 555.
A 1.5 volt zener diode would be nice , they just don't make them.Any type of system will make you loose some juice.

My dollar , 2 cent is not enough anymore.

Mark

Thank you. Your comments are very valuable here.
The problem I had with the 555 circuit specifically rhe one shown here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg149570#msg149570 was that it took all the voltage produced and there was not any more left for recharge the battery. I say this because even thoug there is high voltage present, it is almost nothing with a load present, the 555 on this case.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 02:07:39 PM
@all

As promised here are the results of yesterday tests.

I took the transistor out from the toroid transformer, put a 104 capacitor at the transformer's planned output and connected it to the 1.5v battery positive. The voltage raised from 1.28v to 1.31v and stayed there for several minutes. After a while it drop down to 1.30v and stayed there.
The rubber band around the rotor got broken suddenly and the motor stopped. I got rid of it and the motor is still running at 1.30v.
After a while it drop to 1.29v. So it is not charging, it is just spending the voltage more slowly. I added a white LED as a charging diode and the situation stayed the same.
I changed the LED for a 4148 diode and the voltage increased to 1.34v, but then it began to drop down as before. It went down to 1.32v after a while.
So this test is not charging. At least the motor does not stop when the connection is made.

The toroid transformer worked without transistor because the voltage and current comming from the pulse motor coil is pulsed by the pulse motor transistor. Also on this way it acts as an inductor coil.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 02:10:59 PM
@all

I tried this other configuration of the JtTransformer.
It does not work with only 7 turns as a pickup coil.
It does not give any voltage at the 7 turns output coil.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 02:18:00 PM
@all

I was going to try this other configuration of the JtTransformer.
Remember, the goal is to feedback to 1.5v battery.
The original idea is here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg149796#msg149796

But according to the other tests I have made, no matter what toroid or transformer is connected on the output coil, it does not work properly.

I will begin to plan the other ideas given by the members of the forum. I will make some graphics first to know in what direction I am moving. It suppose to be in the direction of the feedback to the source.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 21, 2009, 09:44:08 PM
@ jesus

I think a zener and 2 resistor could do.

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 11:09:15 PM
@ jesus

I think a zener and 2 resistor could do.

Mark

Thanks!
I will take that into consideration on my new designs.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 21, 2009, 11:21:01 PM
@all

I will try @gadgetmall's and @mk1 ideas.
First I need to change the 1.5v running circuit.

With the Tip31A transistor and the Neon bulb in place, it looks like the first graphic.
With the toroid, flash transformer, or audio transformer eliminated, looks like the second graphic.

Now I have a clean canvas to experiment.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 21, 2009, 11:52:45 PM
I also just got that Adjustable output down to 1.2V , LM317.

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 01:59:19 AM
I also just got that Adjustable output down to 1.2V , LM317.

http://www.national.com/mpf/LM/LM317.html

Thank you @mk1.

Can you believe me if I tell you that I used that approach to lower an output 0f 30 volts to 13 volts on a self running motor I was trying to do with an alternator and it did not pass for my mind even for a minute?

The photo of the contraption is included.

I am glad that you lowered to that voltage.
In the morning I will post the first circuit I am going to try. If you have a schematic of your combination of resistances and the LM317, can you post it?

I included the Graphic I used that time to get the values. To get 13 volts I used 2400ohms as R2.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: sandwichx on January 22, 2009, 03:52:37 AM
This can't be done due to ohm's law:

V = I * R

v = voltage
i = current
r = resistance

If you step up the voltage the current will decrease. The circuit resistance and motor friction will cause energy to be dissipated as heat.

Typically amplifiers are used to amplify a waveform signal riding on a dc voltage.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 22, 2009, 04:11:31 AM
@sandwichx

You must have studied that stuff. But we are taking of lowering the output, i my self i think it would be preferable to store that energy elsewhere.

And really dose that law go both ways?

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 12:05:13 PM
This can't be done due to ohm's law:

V = I * R

v = voltage
i = current
r = resistance

If you step up the voltage the current will decrease. The circuit resistance and motor friction will cause energy to be dissipated as heat.

Typically amplifiers are used to amplify a waveform signal riding on a dc voltage.

That sounds correct. But you must remember that we on free energy, sometimes make some things that the electronic laws cannot cover. Maybe we can find a way to feedback to the source even though it seems that we are violating a law.

Hi! @mk1.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 12:09:24 PM
@all

I tried this circuit and the motor stops each time I connect the positive output from the rectifier to the 1.5v battery positive. (It also happened at the beggining with another circuit)
If I eliminate the first 1n4007 it does the same. If I connect an LED in series it slows down the motor but does not stop.
The output from the rectifier is 13 to 14 volts when it is not connected to the 1.5v battery. If it is connected in series with the LED, gives 2.66 to 2.98 volts.

Have anybody replicated? If so. Do you have results alike or better?
This specific circuit is not recharging the battery But if I connect a recharging battery it gets recharged as usual.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 12:19:19 PM
@mvmcman

Quote
Check this java applet circuit simulator
http://www.falstad.com/circuit/

Thank you!
I will try to learn that simulator and simulate my circuits on it, when I get the time to do it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 12:26:38 PM
@all

The correct orientation of the mentioned LED in series is like so.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gyulasun on January 22, 2009, 01:31:48 PM
Hello Jesus,

One observation on your above schematics:  if you could use more LEDs in series with the one you showed, then the output voltage could be maintained at a higher level so the rotor would not slow down as much as it does now with the one LED.
The explanation is that with the LED you actually make a direct feedback from the 12V output of the LT1073 to its own 1.5V source via a rectifier bridge diode (the one at the 1 o'clock position) and the LED. The forward voltage of one LED is 1.5 to 2 or higher, depending on their color, so in case of one LED it is a huge load for your LT circuit.

By using 3 or 4 LEDs in series, you could make this load much lighter, hence there could remain 10-11V at least for the Bedini circuit to push the rotor as usual. 
(I still cannot say you get overunity with this but a better operation...)

rgds,  Gyula
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 02:46:46 PM
Hello Jesus,

One observation on your above schematics:  if you could use more LEDs in series with the one you showed, then the output voltage could be maintained at a higher level so the rotor would not slow down as much as it does now with the one LED.
The explanation is that with the LED you actually make a direct feedback from the 12V output of the LT1073 to its own 1.5V source via a rectifier bridge diode (the one at the 1 o'clock position) and the LED. The forward voltage of one LED is 1.5 to 2 or higher, depending on their color, so in case of one LED it is a huge load for your LT circuit.

By using 3 or 4 LEDs in series, you could make this load much lighter, hence there could remain 10-11V at least for the Bedini circuit to push the rotor as usual. 
(I still cannot say you get overunity with this but a better operation...)

rgds,  Gyula

Thank you @gyulasun!
I will try that after I make some changes to the schematic and post it to see if that is what you recommend.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 03:49:44 PM
@gyulasun

I made the changes and made the tests. When I added three LEDs the motor kept its slowness. I then added a 2200uf cap and the motor accelerated a little bit. But it continues to be slow.
The charge does not improve. Maybe I am doing something wrong. A photo and a schematic is included. The battery is disconnected.
I had to put a contrast wall behind the LEDs in order to see them. That paper does nothing to help the circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 03:57:55 PM
By the way. I was making a test with the first circuit without any LED and I connected the coil output wire to the 1.5v battery and it did not stop the motor. I was so glad. Then because the motor had no speed I added the 2200uf cap and the motor sped up. It was marvelous. I was so happy.
Suddenly I notice that the coil output wire was connected one hole before the right connection hole, hence it was so fast and unstopable. Big desilusion.
A photo is included.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 07:09:52 PM
@all

This obsession of mine to get feedback to the source has been very expensive for me. On the last test the four LEDs got shorted. I dont know why or how. All were in series.
I know they are shorted because they do not work on their respective place on the 4 different transformers joule thief and they have a reading both ways with the ohmmeter.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 22, 2009, 07:28:57 PM
@ Jesus:

It is very easy to burn or short out an led....trust me, I have fried many.  Especially the small 5mm ones.  If they call for 3.5 vdc and you feed 4.5 or 5 or higher vdc into them, they burn bright for a short while...then ....poof!  My guess is that you are feeding more volts (or amps) to them than you might think.  This is just a guess though.  It might actually be a good sign.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 22, 2009, 08:08:04 PM
@ Jesus:

It is very easy to burn or short out an led....trust me, I have fried many.  Especially the small 5mm ones.  If they call for 3.5 vdc and you feed 4.5 or 5 or higher vdc into them, they burn bright for a short while...then ....poof!  My guess is that you are feeding more volts (or amps) to them than you might think.  This is just a guess though.  It might actually be a good sign.

Bill

Thank you @pirate. I will wait for the goldmine parts. they havent come yet. There is no LEDs on the order though.
I need a job.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 22, 2009, 09:05:12 PM
@All
Here is My New Video of a Powersupply bedini FEEDING BACK TO SOURCE .. Any Comments ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSV-BqGnYw
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on January 22, 2009, 09:48:51 PM
@All
Here is My New Video of a Powersupply bedini FEEDING BACK TO SOURCE .. Any Comments ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSV-BqGnYw


Congratulations Gadgetmall!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 22, 2009, 09:52:32 PM
Good job on your video! (5 stars)  That was quite a spark when you hooked up the positive output back to the + battery terminal.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 22, 2009, 10:04:28 PM
Hey Guys Thanks . I can't see why anyone else can't do this . I think its possible the 48 volt fan Might be giving the Extra energy ,more turns in a bigger package . you can get em at gold mine for 2.75 . i bought three. Its a  toy because i can only make the fan run forever but not actually use the power from the Secondary for anything else. I'll Just stick in on a Shelf and Let it run and when some one ask What is That Chirping  i'll show em. I might have the same problem i have with the Big Selfrunner in that it might cook the battery over time ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: hartiberlin on January 22, 2009, 10:53:36 PM
Never saw 48 Volts Fans yet,
please specify part number and post a link
where it can be bought online.

Many thanks.

P.S. How long did you run it already with a dead 9 Volt battery ?
or can you already run it just with charged supercapacitors
without any battery ?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 22, 2009, 11:05:27 PM
@ Stefan:

That was going to be my next suggestion....see if it will run on decent sized supercaps with no battery.  I did that with the joule thief circuit and it works well.  If anyone is interested, I posted a link in the JT topic to Digi-key (where I get my supercaps) and it shows the ones I am getting next.  2.7 volts 400 Farad,  about $30.00 ea.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gyulasun on January 23, 2009, 12:29:18 AM
@gyulasun

I made the changes and made the tests. When I added three LEDs the motor kept its slowness. I then added a 2200uf cap and the motor accelerated a little bit. But it continues to be slow.
The charge does not improve. Maybe I am doing something wrong. A photo and a schematic is included. The battery is disconnected.
I had to put a contrast wall behind the LEDs in order to see them. That paper does nothing to help the circuit.

Jesus

Hi Jesus,

Very sorry that my suggestion did not work as expected,  I based it on your measured circuit you included in your Reply #143 a bit earlier. 
I think the basic problem is the diode bridge connection directly to the Bedini output, a kind of isolation would be needed,  probably a third coil wound directly onto the pulse motor's presently 2 coils could directly drive the diode bridge, giving an ground-independent output  (i.e. the bridge cannot "see" any other voltage or current galvanically from the rest of all the circuits). 

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 01:47:14 AM
@hartiberlin
Hi . This was My 9th Bedinipowersupply .I gave them Away for Christmas ! you are talking about the first one . The one with the 48 volt fan is running off a 12volt battery and Just Built last night .  . .
yes . i will get a number for you but this is Jesus's thread and i just posted My latest Video for encouragement for Him and His Project. We can Discuss It on My Thread Started By Goat` : Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!! There is a picture of My fan Back there !

@Pirate . I will Try that . So many Things I was Asked to do with it .  Thank you Guys and Thank you Jesus for the Space here .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 23, 2009, 02:01:50 AM
@jesus

Your alternator project , if you recoil it with soft iron coil , you will reduce the magnetic pull and reduce friction , This is a old story that most won't even try.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 02:48:18 AM
@All
Here is My New Video of a Powersupply bedini FEEDING BACK TO SOURCE .. Any Comments ??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbSV-BqGnYw


Congratulations @gadgetmall!!!
I have not had good luck lately.

Hi Jesus,

Very sorry that my suggestion did not work as expected,  I based it on your measured circuit you included in your Reply #143 a bit earlier. 
I think the basic problem is the diode bridge connection directly to the Bedini output, a kind of isolation would be needed,  probably a third coil wound directly onto the pulse motor's presently 2 coils could directly drive the diode bridge, giving an ground-independent output  (i.e. the bridge cannot "see" any other voltage or current galvanically from the rest of all the circuits). 

rgds, Gyula

Dont worry, I am just learning here. If it can be done I will do it.

@jesus

Your alternator project , if you recoil it with soft iron coil , you will reduce the magnetic pull and reduce friction , This is a old story that most won't even try.

I am trying to obtain a circuit that converts the alternator on a motor, but I forgot where I saw that information.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 04:14:29 AM
@mvmcman

Thank you!
You should make your posts on the thread not on my email.

I received @gadgetmall feedback to the source circuit. I made some small editing and post it here as an example of a working circuit and as reference.

@gadgetmall

You are always welcome on this thread.

Jesus

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 01:00:16 PM
@all

I tried this version of @gadgetmall circuit and the results were not different than the results from the circuit with the rectifier.

I used a flash circuit cap 300v 80uf and I configured the circuit as the graphic.
When I try to run the motor with all connected, it does not run.
If I disconnect the wire coming from the output coil to the 300v cap, the motor runs.

This is a crazy situation I have here.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 06:32:20 PM
The Circuit look complicated  :)  My last Circuit i was Dealing with a resistance of 61 ohms thru the two coils . I have found building the fan bedinis that two will feed back the other one had over 90 ohms resistance thru the coil . it maintained a feedback but eventually decreased the run battery. the other powersupply bedinies i build all had resistance of 30 ohms and lower they would not feed back so 61 is a number of ohms that will feed back on my circuit . you could try putting a varable resistor between the spot of connection to plus feed back and see if theres a sweet spot it would run and charge  ??  .Just a Thought ... the Neon will not be needed in your circuit as it could Blow something if you let the cap charge up like i did before i put the feedback on thus a big spark . I think you wont do that !!you have sensitive circuit there .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 08:16:07 PM
The Circuit look complicated  :)  My last Circuit i was Dealing with a resistance of 61 ohms thru the two coils . I have found building the fan bedinis that two will feed back the other one had over 90 ohms resistance thru the coil . it maintained a feedback but eventually decreased the run battery. the other powersupply bedinies i build all had resistance of 30 ohms and lower they would not feed back so 61 is a number of ohms that will feed back on my circuit . you could try putting a varable resistor between the spot of connection to plus feed back and see if theres a sweet spot it would run and charge  ??  .Just a Thought ... the Neon will not be needed in your circuit as it could Blow something if you let the cap charge up like i did before i put the feedback on thus a big spark . I think you wont do that !!you have sensitive circuit there .

It is not that complicated, it is just the coil output directed to the positive of the 1.5v battery as on your circuit.

I will try to find the sweet spot with a varaible resistor and a 10ohm resistor as on your circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 08:35:02 PM
When I tried the circuit with a 12v battery. The motor never stopped, but the battery was drained slowly. No charging.
I will eliminate one neon bulb, the second one, and try with a resistor and a pot to get the sweet spot.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 08:48:02 PM
The circuit terminated as it should look working to get the sweet spot.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 09:08:33 PM
that top diode should be in series with the positive primary to allow one direction only not to the cap ??
no its not that complicate it just the booster ur using my be blown by my mod as  it feedback high voltage and i didnt want you to burn it out .. . there need to be a way to isolate the primary battery from your converter . im thinking a diode and capacitor array .. just rambling on that thought ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 09:33:15 PM
@gadgetmall

Thank you!
So it should look like this.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 09:48:49 PM
@gadgetmall

Pardon my ignorance, but the pot in your circuit is on a different position than on my circuit.
I can be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 09:56:14 PM
your are going to need two pots . leave the Bias pot there . i was just trying to explain that the resistance of my fan coils may allow me to feedback but your resistance of your coil may be different . the second var resistor will allow you to compensate threrfor a sweetspot between your motor stopping and charging . i always never use the end post on my variable resistors by the way . I dont need the secondary pot cause my resistance is perfect allowing me run feedback without my motor stopping .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 23, 2009, 10:09:21 PM
@gadgetmall

Is this schematic okay?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 23, 2009, 10:49:27 PM
looks like it is . test
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 23, 2009, 10:58:23 PM

Hey jesus,

Got to admire your unwavering determination..

A thought occurred to me...maybe its been tried - maybe its just a wacky idea, I don't know for sure...so I thought I should toss it out there anyway...just in case it really is a good idea.

What I wondered was...is it possible to charge the battery using a pick up coil...and maybe even do work with the motor at the same time ?

I wasn't knowledgeable about pick up coils and such back I worked on the concept...so who knows...to me it seems half way logical though.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 24, 2009, 01:10:08 AM
looks like it is . test


I will test as soon as I get a well deserved rest and clear my burned out mind.

Hey jesus,

Got to admire your unwavering determination..

A thought occurred to me...maybe its been tried - maybe its just a wacky idea, I don't know for sure...so I thought I should toss it out there anyway...just in case it really is a good idea.

What I wondered was...is it possible to charge the battery using a pick up coil...and maybe even do work with the motor at the same time ?

I wasn't knowledgeable about pick up coils and such back I worked on the concept...so who knows...to me it seems half way logical though.

Regards...


That is exactly what @gadgetmall claims he did with his first circuit posted on this thread. He made a video of his work: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LczzeeyfFoA

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on January 24, 2009, 02:27:20 AM

Thanks jesus...I somehow missed that posting.

Didn't mean to steal any of your thunder gadgetmall :)...great set up and great potential.

Its encouraging to me that I was on the right track.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 24, 2009, 04:50:53 AM
thanks guys . im proud of it and My second self runner charger .the first one Jesus is talking about is here for replication at a thread Goat started Fusionchip's Bedini Feedback to Source!!!  If you care to look . I want to Build a Newman motor Bad I just don't have anymore money to spend as i am unemployed and disabled  . In a Jam Right Now . The Newman Motor i will Build will run from Contacts only . I understand this type is very easy to get to feedback By adjusting the contacts and using bedini idea of capturing the back spike which is way higher that the run voltage .I think it Should work for Jesus on his electronic circuit if the transistor he uses switches fast enuff to generate good back spikes but i know contacts will . I got to go to sleep . Im dead tired too . Gnite .
Al
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 24, 2009, 01:39:34 PM
@all

I assembled the pots as the circuit depicts. The motor did not run. Playing with the pots I could not set the second pot, the output voltage had no change at all. Discharging.
I eliminated the second pot and the second neon bulb. The motor run when the pot was not biasing. Discharging.
I changed the pot for a 1k pot. By the way I was using 2 of 50k that I had available. the motor run very well but I could not find the sweet spot. Discharging.
There is just one spot with either the 50k or 1k pot that the motor does not discharge anymore, but it comes slowly to a stop.
The only difference I found is that the neon bulb stays on even though the motor is off. This is at that spot where it does not discharge anymore. But it does not recharge either.

I need better parts. Exactly the 10k pots needed with wire extensions soldered so it can be set on the breadboard without having tangled wire everywhere.

I will make some more tests and try another approach.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 24, 2009, 01:58:33 PM
@all

What we need to do is very simple.
We need to make a small circuit that uses the energy from the output coil to run a joule thief with an LED without the LED flickering on and off.
If we get the joule thief LED attached to the output coil to light normal, our feedback problem is solved. The motor will run till the battery will not charge and discharge anymore. Maybe two three months or weeks, could be a year. If it is a 1.5v battery, it will be very inespensive to replace.
The use for this pulse motor with the circuit in my case will be to use as the wind on a small scale wind turbine. It will be on a place that seldom the wind blows during the day. When the wind blow it will help the motor and will not harm anything, the motor will be spinning in favor of the wind.
So if there is no wind, the pulse motor is charging a battery bank. If there is wind, the motor will have some help.
I know it is a nice dream of free energy. But we have the right to dream.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 24, 2009, 05:39:11 PM
Hi Jesus . Don't give up yet . If i can do it with a bedini type motor there must be something else . maybe its the Big metal diodes i am using . I git them from a Scrap yard that has lots of military junk . Big univac computers the size of sheds and all kinds of contraptions . Most of what i got i get from there .theres even some magnetic sand (magnetite and Chromium)i put my hands all in it and later the guy told me it was radioactive(slightly) !! I brought a can of it home(outside)to make  some cool(hot) cores for coils dreaming of some reaction i might come up with . . the spot you got the neon lit was that draining the battery  or was it unity ?Also i dont see how a joule thief out put lighting an led is going help now cause it  was determined that those leds can can run on Micro amps . ? As far as My bedinis are concerned i tried and it blew the transistor and led  then again that was expected because i am running with a 12 volt battery charged to nearly 15 volts and the output coil puts out 100's of volts  :) So with that in mind i need a motor like yours that runs off a 1 volt battery . Now i have seen videos of Newman motors running directly off a 1 volt battery with contacts . I guess this need further investigation because you are having to convert 1.5 to 12 . there is one place you are losing Valuable current the next is the transistor and then how many windings are on you Newman coil and the resistance of those coils . I have already discovered that Thin wire and lots of it will produce more current and voltage . this is evident in My piggy back coil and the fans that were modified . the bigger the windings on the fan in this case causes more back spike current  than the current  takes to spin it . Its funny that a 48 volt fan will run on 6 volts . I tried that too but not in detail like the 12 volt experiment . . anyways i see  a way out  just have to build it and try . It amazes me that an earth battery producing 1.08 volts at 1 ma will run two joule thieves in parallel  lighting up both not too bright but still producing usable light at night when everything is dark i can see .I have several supercaps . they take a very long time to charge on the earthbattery but when they do and i hook up a Jt they are full bright for a minuite or so Hmm.. maybe another circuit to bleed the charge to the Jt circuit .. Well i hope My ramblings are not boring you too much . We can do this on your design .. something will come up ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 24, 2009, 10:35:19 PM
Hi Jesus . Don't give up yet . If i can do it with a bedini type motor there must be something else . maybe its the Big metal diodes i am using . I git them from a Scrap yard that has lots of military junk . Big univac computers the size of sheds and all kinds of contraptions . Most of what i got i get from there .theres even some magnetic sand (magnetite and Chromium)i put my hands all in it and later the guy told me it was radioactive(slightly) !! I brought a can of it home(outside)to make  some cool(hot) cores for coils dreaming of some reaction i might come up with . . the spot you got the neon lit was that draining the battery  or was it unity ?Also i dont see how a joule thief out put lighting an led is going help now cause it  was determined that those leds can can run on Micro amps . ? As far as My bedinis are concerned i tried and it blew the transistor and led  then again that was expected because i am running with a 12 volt battery charged to nearly 15 volts and the output coil puts out 100's of volts  :) So with that in mind i need a motor like yours that runs off a 1 volt battery . Now i have seen videos of Newman motors running directly off a 1 volt battery with contacts . I guess this need further investigation because you are having to convert 1.5 to 12 . there is one place you are losing Valuable current the next is the transistor and then how many windings are on you Newman coil and the resistance of those coils . I have already discovered that Thin wire and lots of it will produce more current and voltage . this is evident in My piggy back coil and the fans that were modified . the bigger the windings on the fan in this case causes more back spike current  than the current  takes to spin it . Its funny that a 48 volt fan will run on 6 volts . I tried that too but not in detail like the 12 volt experiment . . anyways i see  a way out  just have to build it and try . It amazes me that an earth battery producing 1.08 volts at 1 ma will run two joule thieves in parallel  lighting up both not too bright but still producing usable light at night when everything is dark i can see .I have several supercaps . they take a very long time to charge on the earthbattery but when they do and i hook up a Jt they are full bright for a minuite or so Hmm.. maybe another circuit to bleed the charge to the Jt circuit .. Well i hope My ramblings are not boring you too much . We can do this on your design .. something will come up ..

Thanks @gadgetmall.
It is a coincidence. My coil has 1400 turns divided on two coils of 700 turns each, the wire is 30 awg. That is why it, when the battery is connected and I move a little the rotor, the neon bulb begins to glow with a high pitch sound, then the sound stabilizes and the light stays on until I get the battery off or the battery runs down.
That is a very strange high voltage behavior. Because if I connect an LED to it with the cathode pointing in direction of the output coil, the LED stays brightly light and if I measure the voltage it has less than 3 volts dc.
I think that to finish this project without spending so much money on experiment failures, is to study the electronic theory involved in all the pulse motor operation.

Jesus

Edit:
. . the spot you got the neon lit was that draining the battery  or was it unity ?Also i dont see how a joule thief out put lighting an led is going help now cause it  was determined that those leds can can run on Micro amps . ? ..
It was draining the battery.
I have a breadboard with four different joule thieves configurations on it. When I tested it on the feedback circuit, it just flicked dimly at first, then I made some changes and it flickered brightly.
I can make the four diferent configurations including on the four a flash transformer with a neon bulb, with a 1.2v battery and it lights bright.
If I can make that the output coil run that joule thief composition, then I know that the output of that composition can make the booster circuit to work and move the motor while the joule thieves composition is providing feedback to the source at the same time.
Even though the feedback wont charge the battery, it wont drain it either. That is if the JT composition works fine with the pulse motor coil output.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on January 25, 2009, 01:45:51 AM
I understand now . thanks ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 25, 2009, 01:22:27 PM
@all

I will experiment with this variation now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 25, 2009, 01:48:11 PM
@all

I would like to give credit to all those people that in one way or another has helped us on this thread.

@cap-z-ro, @ramset, @innovation-station, @spinner, @abbarue, @pirate88179, @goat, @gadgetmall, @hartiberlin, @guruji, @gyulasun, @mvmcman, @thaelin,

To all the team from @pirate's thread I take my hat off before you all.

And if you think that you should also be mentioned here, The thanks go to you too.

Jesus

Also I would like to give credit to:

@tropes, @mk1 and @sandwichx.

Again, if you think that you should also be mentioned here, The credits go to you too.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on January 25, 2009, 10:45:37 PM
@jesus

Your alternator project , if you recoil it with soft iron coil , you will reduce the magnetic pull and reduce friction , This is a old story that most won't even try.
Mark
I have been doing some experimenting with coils for my Sotropa Motor using R.P.M. to compare each variable. I have compared bifilar to single strand, directional winding to back & forth, wire size, core size and core material. However, I am not sure what you mean by "recoil it with soft iron coil". Do you mean wrap the existing coil with a soft iron wire?
Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 25, 2009, 11:12:07 PM
@tropes

Rewire alternator with soft iron , instead of copper wire.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on January 25, 2009, 11:29:18 PM
Do you have a supplier name for the coated iron wire?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on January 26, 2009, 12:07:23 AM
@tropes

I wish i did but, you will most likely need to coat it your self.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 26, 2009, 12:12:40 AM
@tropes and @mk1

What I did instead of rewiring the core was to change the rotor with a permanent magnet rotor and that changed the quantity of revolutions per minute needed to get 30volts in half.
I needed 3500 rpm to produce 12volts. The motor I could get was 1375 rpm. With it the alternator never got to produce any voltage at all.
With the same motor and the permanent magnet rotor I had to use a light dimmer switch to low down the speed because the alternator was getting to hot at 1375 rpm.

so if you cant get the rewiring, get a permanent magnet alternator rotor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 26, 2009, 01:06:52 PM
@all

I did the projected circuit and connected it, the motor did not turn. I disconnected the wire coming from the capacitor to the 1.5v battery and the motor spinned well. When I put back the cable to see if after being running it would stay running, there was a big spark and the motor worked no more no matter what I did to it.
I think that I damaged the booster circuit.

Another loss on my feedback to the source obsession.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 27, 2009, 01:00:40 PM
@all

Well the booster is gone for now. Now I have to deal with a straight 12v battery to make the experiments. The risk is bigger to damage circuits. But there is a goal to fulfill.

I will try this other circuit to see if it works on the negative side. Then I will switch it to the positive side.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 28, 2009, 12:19:37 PM
The circuit was built. The test was made.
The motor just gave 3 or 4 turns and there was fire and smoke coming from the circuit. After disconnecting the battery, there was this brown burn around the transistor.

I dont know but this has gotten too expensive for me.

It was safer when it was only 1.5v boosted to 12v.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on January 28, 2009, 05:47:55 PM
@ Jesus:

Look at it this way.  If you fried the transistor it means you are getting TOO MUCH power fed back into your circuit.  With my knowledge being at a novice level in electronics, my guess is that you either need a heavier duty transistor or a larger resistor in line to protect the transistor.  So, (again I am guessing here) when your motor ran for just those few turns, it made enough power to burn up you transistor meaning to me that this is the direction you were looking for.

In other words, I see this as an encouraging accident, not a set back.  But, I understand about the expense part.  Maybe scale everything down and work with lower input energy?

Best of luck to you.  Whatever you do, do not give up.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 29, 2009, 12:46:28 PM
@ Jesus:

Look at it this way.  If you fried the transistor it means you are getting TOO MUCH power fed back into your circuit.  With my knowledge being at a novice level in electronics, my guess is that you either need a heavier duty transistor or a larger resistor in line to protect the transistor.  So, (again I am guessing here) when your motor ran for just those few turns, it made enough power to burn up you transistor meaning to me that this is the direction you were looking for.

In other words, I see this as an encouraging accident, not a set back.  But, I understand about the expense part.  Maybe scale everything down and work with lower input energy?

Best of luck to you.  Whatever you do, do not give up.

Bill

Thank you @pirate.
You are always there when somebody needs encouragement.

The thing that bothers me most is the shipping and handling of those parts. Maybe the part cost $3.50, but the shipping and handling goes up to $22.00, then the cost it is not $3.50 anymore. Anyway I will keep experimenting and learning on the process and each time I can, I will buy the parts I will need most in advance and all at the same time so to lower the shipping costs.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 29, 2009, 12:54:17 PM
@all
I did redo the circuit with the bad connection corrected and the circuit did not blow up again.
The sad thing is that it does not give any feed back to the source.

Then I made the new circuit shown here and the circuit did not blow either. But again it did not give any feedback to the source.

While I was doing this tests, there was a complete blackout on the block. At that moment I thought that if it would have been a national emergency, I was not prepared with the electricity needed for the ocassion and its respective recharge system.

So I need to study a lot more to see if I can accomplish my goal. Or just take it easy and if it is meant to be it will be.

Jesus

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 30, 2009, 01:42:40 PM
@all

This feedback to the source charge is very elusive. I have not been able to get it. Others claim they have.
I will try @mvmcman circuit configuration this time to see if I can close the loop with it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 30, 2009, 03:09:45 PM
@all

The schematic on post #196 should be like this one. That one the transistor is not the one I used. I used NPN and drawed a PNP.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: xenomorphlabs on January 30, 2009, 03:46:34 PM
@Jesus : I appreciate your efforts to succeed in feeding back to the source.
As i understand you want to amplify the voltage from 1.5V to 12V using a transistor.
Just for your consideration (if you haven`t already thought about it), you might wanna
look into using voltage doublers : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler
So using 3 in a row will get you 12 V, with hope that the amperage will still be sufficient.
About the frying of the transistor.
Have you tried 2N3055s? They are really tough and can stand some beating.
Have never managed to fry one until now hehe.
Good luck with your further efforts!
Xenomorph
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 30, 2009, 08:47:12 PM
@Jesus : I appreciate your efforts to succeed in feeding back to the source.
As i understand you want to amplify the voltage from 1.5V to 12V using a transistor.
What I want with the transistor is to pulse the output from the rectifier to see if the battery accepts the recharge.
I have failed though.

Quote
Just for your consideration (if you haven`t already thought about it), you might wanna
look into using voltage doublers : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_doubler
So using 3 in a row will get you 12 V, with hope that the amperage will still be sufficient.
There was a circuit already made but it was blown up by high voltage on one experiment I did.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg150028#msg150028

Quote
About the frying of the transistor.
Have you tried 2N3055s? They are really tough and can stand some beating.
Have never managed to fry one until now hehe.
Good luck with your further efforts!
Xenomorph

I usually use Tip3055 but I did not used it this time. I should have.

Thank you!

Jesus

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 30, 2009, 09:14:10 PM
@ all

For everybody's benefit and for future reference here is the edited graphics from wikipedia.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gyulasun on January 31, 2009, 12:13:42 AM
Hi Jesus,

I would like to comment your rectifier circuits a little, it is needed...

The schematic in the lower left corner is in fact a full wave and not a half wave doubler.  See its operation here:
http://www.play-hookey.com/ac_theory/ps_v_multipliers.html

And this brings up the question: then what is the schematic in the upper right corner?  (where the full wave bridge is fed from a center tapped transformer)  While it is true that it gives a double voltage as you show between the outputs points,  normally in this kind of circuit the center tap of the transformer is a reference (zero voltage or ground) point (and it is not connected to the common points of the capacitors, in fact there is only one capacitor at the output of the bridge)  and the positive output and the negative output can supply circuits where a split supply is needed with a + and - polarity with respect to a common ground. And with respect to this ground neither the positive nor the negative output voltage is a doubled value, ok?
For this latter circuit I found this small explanation that sounds ok for me: http://www.powertronix.com/html/body_linear.html   
They call it a dual complementary rectifier which not very common reference to it but exists.

So all in all the most important correction is the circuit in the lower left corner is a full wave rectifier and a doubler..

Regards,  Gyula
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 31, 2009, 03:23:45 AM
Hi Jesus,

I would like to comment your rectifier circuits a little, it is needed...

The schematic in the lower left corner is in fact a full wave and not a half wave doubler.  See its operation here:
http://www.play-hookey.com/ac_theory/ps_v_multipliers.html

I made a composition of the circuits you recomend.
The others were recomended by @xenomorphlabs.

Quote
And this brings up the question: then what is the schematic in the upper right corner?  (where the full wave bridge is fed from a center tapped transformer)  While it is true that it gives a double voltage as you show between the outputs points,  normally in this kind of circuit the center tap of the transformer is a reference (zero voltage or ground) point (and it is not connected to the common points of the capacitors, in fact there is only one capacitor at the output of the bridge)  and the positive output and the negative output can supply circuits where a split supply is needed with a + and - polarity with respect to a common ground. And with respect to this ground neither the positive nor the negative output voltage is a doubled value, ok?
For this latter circuit I found this small explanation that sounds ok for me: http://www.powertronix.com/html/body_linear.html   
They call it a dual complementary rectifier which not very common reference to it but exists.

So all in all the most important correction is the circuit in the lower left corner is a full wave rectifier and a doubler..

Regards,  Gyula

The other group of voltage multipliers or voltage suppliers is included too.

Thank you @gyulasun !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 31, 2009, 01:52:03 PM
@all

 I built the circuit using the old jule thief toroid, because I have no new wire at the moment. With a red LED Salvaged from a camera circuit connected from the collector to battery ground, If I connect a 1.5v battery and spin the rotor, the light flashes brightly.
If I connect it between the collector and the emitter, it flashes dimly. By the way the negative output of the rectifier is not connected to the battery ground.

 I think that if I use a 12v battery, I am going to burn everything here. So I will try with a spent 9v battery. This battery has 4v left. When I connected it the LED stayed lighted without spining the rotor.

When I spinned the rotor, the LED began to flash and the battery to go down in voltage. The LED is connected between the collector and the battery negative. I exchanged it with a diode and the battery was drained down when I spinned the rotor.

When I took the diode out and without spinning the rotor, the voltage began to climb from 0.8v now 2.11v If I spinned the rotor the voltage wemt down. This is crazy. I added a 2200uf capacitor an the voltage lowered a little and began to rise without spinning the rotor.

This is not what I was expecting from this circuit.
I was expecting to get feedback to the source and I have not it here.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 31, 2009, 02:07:17 PM
@all

What this project needs is not a voltage multiplier.
What it needs is a voltage booster in order to step up the 1.5v to 12v.

I had the circuit made but the IC I was using was blown by a test I did that produced a too high voltage spark.

I will post these circuits composition here as a reference of what I need to learn in order to boost the voltage.

Again I have no problem with the dc output voltage from the pulse motor.
The boosted voltage is used to make it run.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on January 31, 2009, 02:27:15 PM
@all

I said that what I needed was a booster circuit.
There is this forum member called @jonnydavro who skilfully made a joule thief run a bedini motor.
That is the booster I need to move my pulse motor.

I will post his circuit here for everybody to see and for reference.
The link for his work and topic is:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6688.new#new

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 01, 2009, 03:20:49 PM
@all

I made the pulse motor to run with the joule thief.
Thanks to @jonnydavro's idea.

I did not do it exactly as he did but it works.
But still I have the same problem I had with the LT1073 circuit.

It does not charge the running battery.

So at least I solved the 1.5v booster problem I had.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 02, 2009, 03:21:37 AM
Hey, I found this on another topic, thought you might like to see it.  A Bedini motor running of a large cap, no batts.  I think we could add the JT circuit to this and really have something.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3562588371166049574


Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 02, 2009, 01:25:55 PM
Hey, I found this on another topic, thought you might like to see it.  A Bedini motor running of a large cap, no batts.  I think we could add the JT circuit to this and really have something.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3562588371166049574


Bill

Thanks @pirate!

I was following that one last year, one of my first experiments with my Imhotep's fan charger was to add a bedini circuit that claimed to be self running. But for me it did not work.
Maybe the one I got was not the real mckoy.

Do you found any circuit for this one?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 02, 2009, 03:56:23 PM
@all

During a test I left the joule thief connected to the pulse motor for a moment while I prepare the camera and the voltage rose to 14 volts without spinning the rotor.
I left a little more and it rose to 17 volts. Then to 19 volts.

Jesus

Edit:
On the photo appears with the @slayer007 idea of two toroids but it does the same with just one toroid coil
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 03, 2009, 01:39:06 PM
@all
Willing to explore a little further I tried to run an extractor fan motor that once gave me a jolt of voltage when I put some voltage on two of its wires and tried to get a voltage reading on the other wires.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 03, 2009, 01:46:03 PM
@all

I got 25 volts from a joule thief through the extractor fan stator. It did not run though.
The stator alone without the rotor. that by the way does not have permanent magnetism, and a 12 volt battery would make a good power source I think. I could be wrong though.

But I cannot get away from my principal goal that is, to get feedback to the source.

I will find something.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 04, 2009, 12:39:46 PM
@all

This was the circuit used on the two toroids test.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 04, 2009, 01:13:51 PM
@all

By the way. There is a new idea brought by @lidmotor that uses a peltier module with a rectifier and a 50F cap that can be used as an independent feddback to the source with the module placed under or over the magnetic field of the pulse motor coil or Joule thief toroid coil.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tagor on February 04, 2009, 06:46:39 PM
There is a new idea brought by @lidmotor that uses a peltier module

do you know , where we can buy a peltier module ?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 04, 2009, 10:50:44 PM
@tagor

I have not tested this new device. Also I am not the one that invented it.
You can get one here:
http://www.mpja.com/prodinfo.asp?number=12326+PM

If you make experiments with it, please post results here if it is not an incovenience for you.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: rensseak on February 05, 2009, 01:43:53 AM
do you know , where we can buy a peltier module ?


Hi,

just look @ ebay.com  http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=peltier&category0= (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=peltier&category0=)


regards
Norbert
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 05, 2009, 04:59:13 AM

Hi,

just look @ ebay.com  http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=peltier&category0= (http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&_trksid=m37.l1313&satitle=peltier&category0=)


regards
Norbert

Thank you @rensseak

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 05, 2009, 02:50:31 PM
@all

For conversions from numbers such as 101, 102, 103, etc. to picofarads or viceverza
go to this link http://www.electronics2000.co.uk/calc/calccap.php

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 05, 2009, 02:54:32 PM
@all

I composed this other circuit variation and tested it.
It is based on @lidmotor idea.
The motor does not run if configured this way.
Maybe I am doing something wrong.
If @lidmotor sees this, please give some light on the matter.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tagor on February 05, 2009, 04:32:30 PM
Thank you @rensseak

Jesus

thank you very much
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 06, 2009, 03:27:44 PM
@all

In the meantime I can solve some problems, what about dream a little bit with the free energy experimenter's dream.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 06, 2009, 04:15:00 PM
@all

I feel very very sad!  The creator of the magnetic mill "Juan Carlos Moran" Died.
I received a dozen emails saying so.

He died at the age of 49 years (1960-2009). Very young. It is scary. I dont know how he died.
I wish ELIEVE has him on his side.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 07, 2009, 01:38:53 PM
Thanks @mvmcman

I will post at least one of his graphics in honour of him. I think that he was a very controversial human being that was trying to help humanity with his magnetism knowledge.

Maybe someone will catch the magnetic equilibrium needed to accomplish his work.
If we could finish his work, we will not need to feedback to the source anymore.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 07, 2009, 09:05:12 PM
@all

If anyone is interested on knowing more about the magnetic mill this is the link:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5660.0
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on February 07, 2009, 11:34:04 PM
Thanks @mvmcman

I will post at least one of his graphics in honour of him. I think that he was a very controversial human being that was trying to help humanity with his magnetism knowledge.

Maybe someone will catch the magnetic equilibrium needed to accomplish his work.
If we could finish his work, we will not need to feedback to the source anymore.

Jesus

Jesus
Maybe it's time to move on.
Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 08, 2009, 12:04:28 AM
Thank you @tropes

Tomorrow I will keep going with the thread.

By the way, this is the only photo taken for the last circuit test at:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg155527#msg155527
My camera got short on the batteries.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 08, 2009, 01:26:51 PM
@all

This is the circuit to be tested.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 08, 2009, 01:33:56 PM
@all

I tried this circuit with 100ohm 220ohm 1000ohm 10000ohm 1000000ohm and it did not work.
Also I tried 1uh 10uh 22uh 120uh 150uh 220uh and it did not make the pulse motor run.

It turns an LED brightly with a resistor from 1k to 100k.
With 100k the battery drain is less.

If I use a 1k resistor and a 125uh inductor with two 1.5batteries in parallel, the pulse motor works well.
With parallel I mean positive with positive and negative with negative.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 08, 2009, 01:36:39 PM
@all

These are the photos.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 09, 2009, 02:05:49 PM
@all

Because my batteries were run down making experiments I had no charged batteries. I use a 40 watts light lamp to work on my project. Then I bought last year from allelectronics 2 garden lights with solar panels.
An idea came suddenly to use the solar panels under the 40 watts lamp and recharge batteries while answering posts on the overunity forum.
The first time the batteries were charged to 1.28 volts, but the next day they were discharged again.
The second time I put the batteries to charge with the solar panels they holded the charge!

So if you want to give double use to the light you are using to work on your desk, place a solar panel under it recharging your batteries while you work.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 10, 2009, 04:38:58 PM
@all

There could be the possibility to get the energy source from the air and the ground for this pulsed motor.
I restored this graphic from http://www.crystalradio.net I found on a search. If I cannot find a good feedback to the source, I will try to build one of this devices.
I did one on the past but I did not know and still dont know how to tap the voltage spark produced by the circuit cap.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 10, 2009, 04:44:22 PM
@all

The project I did was this one.

The circuit captured the last time 90 volts. The problem that made me disassemble it and use the parts for other projects was that the voltage gathered by it was spent on one single spark.

I did not know and repeat I still dont know how to use that energy.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 10, 2009, 07:41:55 PM
@ Jesus:

Maybe if we used supercaps as opposed to those regular caps we could bleed off the energy in a slower, more usable manner?

Bill       PS my huge amount (due to the minimum order) of parts may be in by the end of the week.  In there are 50 germanium diodes and a bunch of other stuff.  I will give this a go.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 10, 2009, 10:21:26 PM
@Jesus and All,

I am thinking about a similar thing with my pulsemotor.

How to recover any BEMF generated charge and feed it back to the input?


An idea I have at the moment is this:

Instead of collecting the BEMF in a cap, feed it into a transformer. Use a diode to capture the BEMF as normal but just put a transformer where the cap normally goes.

The transformer output is then fed through a diode bridge into a large electrolytic that is sat over the motors supply input. Could use a single diode but the bridge may catch a little more ringing.

The large electrolytic will soak up the rectified pulse and make it available to the motor drive coil, adding voltage to the cap that is already charged by the supply.

Put a beefy diode on the supply side of the cap to prevent it leaking back into the supply.

It should be more efficient than collecting in one cap and then transfering using switches (FETs) into the supply side because there will be no switching losses and no cap to cap losses.

The cap should be large enough to hold one pulse with room to spare. The cap should also be low ESR like used in switch mode PSUs.

Toroidal transformer is prefered because it is efficient and will not interfere with mag field of the motor. I think if the mass of copper on the transformer is comparable to the motors coil mass then it should be ok. The core should be large enough so that it doesn´t saturate with the pulse. Of course toroids are a pain to wind and so initial tests could be conducted with El core power transformer. Could maybe use 120V to 12V transformer out of a cheapo power adapter.

P.S.
This idea may have already occured in this thread, apologies for not reading all of this thread yet, it has grown quite long.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 10, 2009, 11:45:24 PM
Quote from: @pirate
@ Jesus:

Maybe if we used supercaps as opposed to those regular caps we could bleed off the energy in a slower, more usable manner?

Bill       PS my huge amount (due to the minimum order) of parts may be in by the end of the week.  In there are 50 germanium diodes and a bunch of other stuff.  I will give this a go.

Thank you @pirate.
I bought a package of three from goldmine and am doing experiments with them. I used the camera's 350v caps and lost transistors with the high voltage spikes. They are very powerful, but does not last long.

Quote from: @yucca
@Jesus and All,

I am thinking about a similar thing with my pulsemotor.

How to recover any BEMF generated charge and feed it back to the input?


An idea I have at the moment is this:

Instead of collecting the BEMF in a cap, feed it into a transformer. Use a diode to capture the BEMF as normal but just put a transformer where the cap normally goes.

The transformer output is then fed through a diode bridge into a large electrolytic that is sat over the motors supply input. Could use a single diode but the bridge may catch a little more ringing.

The large electrolytic will soak up the rectified pulse and make it available to the motor drive coil, adding voltage to the cap that is already charged by the supply.

Put a beefy diode on the supply side of the cap to prevent it leaking back into the supply.

It should be more efficient than collecting in one cap and then transfering using switches (FETs) into the supply side because there will be no switching losses and no cap to cap losses.

The cap should be large enough to hold one pulse with room to spare. The cap should also be low ESR like used in switch mode PSUs.

Toroidal transformer is prefered because it is efficient and will not interfere with mag field of the motor. I think if the mass of copper on the transformer is comparable to the motors coil mass then it should be ok. The core should be large enough so that it doesn´t saturate with the pulse. Of course toroids are a pain to wind and so initial tests could be conducted with El core power transformer. Could maybe use 120V to 12V transformer out of a cheapo power adapter.

P.S.
This idea may have already occured in this thread, apologies for not reading all of this thread yet, it has grown quite long.


Thank you @yucca
That idea of yours sounds good. Could you post a schematic of it?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 11, 2009, 02:21:40 PM
@all

In the meantime we find the way to get feedback to the source, I will post some useful information about multivibrators. The credit goes this time to lady @jeanna, who gave the link for this information.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 11, 2009, 10:13:17 PM
Here is a schematic, I haven´t tried it yet. The principle is fairly simple and any transformer should work but best would be a high freq. handling toroidal core wound as 1:1 transformer, maybe 100 wraps on each half.

If your motor uses aircore then fairly small transformer should work. If motor coil has a core then the transformer will need to be a little bigger.

For best performance the transformer size will need matching to the coil BEMF pulse. I´m thinking a transformer with about the same weight as the motors drive coil would be a fair starting point for experiments.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 12, 2009, 01:43:03 AM
@yucca

Thank you!

What will you use as the drive signal?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 12, 2009, 10:33:22 AM
Hi Jesus,

A small reed switch with resistor should work fine to supply the drive signal for the motor coil, just like a regular Bedini build.

But I plan on using a 5V logic line from a microcontroller (UC). The UC will have a hall effect sensor next to the rotor. By doing this I will have accurate control over the pulse timing and pulse width. Also the UC will be able to display the RPM, timing and width angles on a tiny screen.

I have included a week old photo of my pulsemotor build, it has progressed alot further since the photo, I am just finishing all the wiring. I will post you another photo here in a few days. You can see a reed switch at the top but I will be replacing with hall effect sensor for more accurate position signal.

I will probably try the BEMF recycler circuit in a week or so when I have the motor running with the UC. I have ran the motor just using the reed switch to pulse the coil but I´ve nearly killed my reed switch.

yucca.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 12, 2009, 11:12:46 AM
Hi Jesus,

A small reed switch with resistor should work fine to supply the drive signal for the motor coil, just like a regular Bedini build.

But I plan on using a 5V logic line from a microcontroller (UC). The UC will have a hall effect sensor next to the rotor. By doing this I will have accurate control over the pulse timing and pulse width. Also the UC will be able to display the RPM, timing and width angles on a tiny screen.

I have included a week old photo of my pulsemotor build, it has progressed alot further since the photo, I am just finishing all the wiring. I will post you another photo here in a few days. You can see a reed switch at the top but I will be replacing with hall effect sensor for more accurate position signal.

I will probably try the BEMF recycler circuit in a week or so when I have the motor running with the UC. I have ran the motor just using the reed switch to pulse the coil but I´ve nearly killed my reed switch.

yucca.

That pulse motor looks great!
The coil seems built U-shaped. Is that correct?

About the switching. I think that the best one is the Bedini's original transistor trigger with the bifilar coil. But if you think that with a hall effect switch you will get better position accuracy, go for it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 12, 2009, 05:25:08 PM
@ Yucca:

Nice build there!  I'll bet that is going to work well for you.  Excellent job.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 12, 2009, 05:41:28 PM
Hi! @pirate

@all

I made a secondary coil on a JT toroid, with a coil cable from a discarded phone charger.
I tried it first alone and tried to get some output reading, but there was none dc or ac.
I connected it to the pulse motor and with a charged 1.5v battery it run the motor.
When I connect a red LED to the circuit, the LED lights. Not too bright though.

The Idea is to connect the secondary through a rectifier to the source battery to see if it gives any feedback to the source.

I need to add some terminals to the secondary thin wires in order to connect it to the breadboard.
I have noted that each time it is harder for me to do any tests.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 12, 2009, 09:06:57 PM
Hi Jesus and Bill,

Thanks, I´m enjoying building this. A half hour here an hour there.

The peculiar coil is the idea of a user called @woopy called the DEK UCC. DEK is the name of his pet dog and UCC stands for U shaped Coreless Coil.

A normal coil produces a field like this:
N S

The UCC produces a field like this:
N S S N

UCC Thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6727.0

I want good positional accuracy because I want to fire the coil with a very short high power pulse just
as the magnet goes through the centre of the UCC coil. But I agree the bedini bifilar is a very elegant and efficient method. One coil that I will definitely be winding for my motor sometime.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 12, 2009, 11:13:14 PM
Hi Jesus and Bill,

Thanks, I´m enjoying building this. A half hour here an hour there.

The peculiar coil is the idea of a user called @woopy called the DEK UCC. DEK is the name of his pet dog and UCC stands for U shaped Coreless Coil.

A normal coil produces a field like this:
N S

The UCC produces a field like this:
N S S N

UCC Thread:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6727.0

I want good positional accuracy because I want to fire the coil with a very short high power pulse just
as the magnet goes through the centre of the UCC coil. But I agree the bedini bifilar is a very elegant and efficient method. One coil that I will definitely be winding for my motor sometime.


You do not need to build a different coil in order to get the trigger voltage to activate the transistor.
The U-shaped coil is just like a bent toroid coil.
What you need to do is to wind at least 12 turns of wire through the coil and use the beginning wire and the end wire to trigger the transistor as the bedini circuit.
It will activate the UCC with the transistor and the motor will spin.
Just find the right amount of turns needed. You can start with seven turns instead of 12 and add turns as you test.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 12, 2009, 11:39:11 PM
Thanks I´ll probably try that, I´m using FET instead of transistor, so I could use really fine wire for the trigger coil.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 13, 2009, 05:53:53 AM
@yucca

This is the idea of adding a trigger coil to the UCC.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 13, 2009, 02:00:50 PM
@all

I did the terminal connections.

Jesus



Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 13, 2009, 02:04:43 PM
@all

I connected the secondary parallel to the primary. Lets see what happen!

It does not do anything. Not even the battery seems to go down with the load.

I connected another battery in parallel with 1.26v and it climbed to 1.35v.
The original one had 1.35v and climbed down to 1.34v.
I disconnected the second parallel battery and the battery after a while went down from 1.35v to 1.28v. It gained 0.02v Very strange!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 14, 2009, 01:14:41 PM
@all

Disconnecting the original JT wires and making the motor run with the secondary as the JT, the motor spins faster and if I connect a red LED from the collector to ground it lights very bright.
The disconnected wires gives an output ac of 1.9v.
I need now to rectify that output and connect it to the source.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 15, 2009, 02:02:04 PM
@all

Rectified voltage without the motor spinning is 4.08v
Rectified voltage with the rotor spinning is 2.25v.

Without the rectifier wires connected, the battery shows 1.32v
With just the rectifier positive side connected the battery shows 1.32v with the rotor spinning.
If I connect the rectifier negative side the motor stops, the battery shows 1.33v
But eventually it discharge.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 15, 2009, 02:17:44 PM
@all

This is the schematic used on this configuration.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 16, 2009, 01:46:06 PM
@all

Adding a diode from the rectifier positive to the battery keep the battery from draining.
When I added a charging battery to the rectifier negative and positive, the motor stops but the source battery does not go down as before and the charging battery is getting charged.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 17, 2009, 12:49:11 PM
@all

There is a battery I have that when I recharge it, it loose the charge again. It shows 1.19v but if I put a load on it it goes down to 0.6v.
With that battery I recharged the one I have been using that is labeled alkaline.

Conclusion:

There is not feedback on this circuit. But this toroid arrangement is a very good battery charger. With the source battery charge as low as .5v, It charges the charging battery to a degree that the charging battery can make this same joule thief to turn an LED full bright.

**************************
Trying to get this toroid to light a cfl I built a multivibrator with it.
When I connected the 1.5v power there was not any output on the secondary wires.
I rectified the output and it gave 0.12v dc as output.
That is nothing near what I expected.

I exchanged the wires and it gave 3.19 volts rectified from the secondary. But it could not turn the pulse motor as when I use the 7 turn bifilar toroid without secondaries.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 17, 2009, 07:37:16 PM
@ Jesus:


Have a look at this guy's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNItTf9NrM&feature=subscription

Then, check out some of his other videos.  He says we are only getting half of the back emf on all of our experiments and we can double the energy by doing it his way.  I am not sure I follow this as a lot is over my head.  See what you think.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 17, 2009, 09:37:00 PM
@ Jesus:


Have a look at this guy's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNItTf9NrM&feature=subscription

Then, check out some of his other videos.  He says we are only getting half of the back emf on all of our experiments and we can double the energy by doing it his way.  I am not sure I follow this as a lot is over my head.  See what you think.

Bill

Thank you @pirate!

I will check it as soon as I can.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 17, 2009, 10:42:50 PM
@pirate and @all

I viewed the videos and found the information interesting. I made a composition of the whole thing as reference.

With this information I understand now how to make the famous pulse motor that was posted on this forum on one topic I was following and did not understand how to make it at that time. Now I know.

Thank you @pirate!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on February 17, 2009, 11:16:37 PM
@pirate and @all

I viewed the videos and found the information interesting. I made a composition of the whole thing as reference.

With this information I understand now how to make the famous pulse motor that was posted on this forum on one topic I was following and did not understand how to make it at that time. Now I know.

Thank you @pirate!

Jesus

That picture with the blue ink looks like a really BAD idea.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 18, 2009, 07:09:30 AM
@Jesus . Ok i got one more for you . wrap another secondary run it thru a diode to a 2200uf 16volt cap or close . you will see the circuit die for a Minuit .....then you will see the circuit go to full power again . Check the voltage on the cap . it should be very high ...like 7 times the running battery .. then Pm me ....I cannot give this out yet but i will let you know so you can try it ..
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 18, 2009, 02:37:50 PM
That picture with the blue ink looks like a really BAD idea.

Pardon my ignorance. But, why do you say so?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 19, 2009, 01:49:25 AM
@ Jesus:


Have a look at this guy's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLNItTf9NrM&feature=subscription

Then, check out some of his other videos.  He says we are only getting half of the back emf on all of our experiments and we can double the energy by doing it his way.  I am not sure I follow this as a lot is over my head.  See what you think.

Bill
the Guy is wrong . BEMF is only produce when the dc current is released . so when he hooks up a battery the first pulse is normal induction but when he released the battery one larger BEMF pulse is release . This is why bedini uses a diods to capture the ONE bemf pulse which is much higher that the original Normal first induction pulse .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 19, 2009, 02:31:00 AM
@Jesus . Ok i got one more for you . wrap another secondary run it thru a diode to a 2200uf 16volt cap or close . you will see the circuit die for a Minuit .....then you will see the circuit go to full power again . Check the voltage on the cap . it should be very high ...like 7 times the running battery .. then Pm me ....I cannot give this out yet but i will let you know so you can try it ..

Thank you @gadgetmall !
I did not see this one this morning.

I will try it as soon as I finish some experiments I am doing with a new toroid coil.

the Guy is wrong . BEMF is only produce when the dc current is released . so when he hooks up a battery the first pulse is normal induction but when he released the battery one larger BEMF pulse is release . This is why bedini uses a diods to capture the ONE bemf pulse which is much higher that the original Normal first induction pulse .

Thanks again !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 19, 2009, 12:34:17 PM
@all

The circuits I have tried to this point just has proved one thing:

They are "Good chargers" of another battery. But they cannot charge their own battery.

With different coil configurations and the help of some diodes and capacitors, you can make the running battery to last longer periods of time, but eventually the battery gets discharged and the motor stops.

It is true that if you allow some time to pass and start the circuit again the battery has recovered almost completely, but there is always two or three points of voltage missing. The battery for example was 1.5v then it discharged and the motor stopped. The battery recovered but this time the voltage is 1.35v. the cycle repeats and the battery recovers at 1.28 and so on.

It is sad to say that to this point I have fail to get a real feedback to the source.

@gadgetmall

I will try the test you proposed today.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 19, 2009, 01:09:25 PM
@all

Correction:

I tried to use the batteries I charged with the last "marvelous" circuit and the batteries seemed well charged. The batteries were the camera aaa batteries. The thing is that before I put them to charge I could take a photo with the camera. After "fully charged" with the circuit, I tried to take photos of the work and used the recharged batteries. The camera turned on and when I tried to take the photo, it turned off by itself. That was repeated several times using diferent combinations of the charged batteries.

Conclusion:

The charge given by this circuits is just an illussion. The battery shows an excellent voltage "fully charged", but it goes dead as soon as you put a load to it. Not completely dead perse, but it does not do the work required from it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 19, 2009, 06:56:45 PM
@ Jesus:

Check with Gadgetmall on this but I believe it is correct.  Your motor is charging the battery in pulses similar to a Bedini charger.  Batteries used in the Bedini type chargers have to be "conditioned" by charging and discharging more than a few times before they work well.  I have not done this....yet, but I have read this in many different places.  Once conditioned, the batteries should work even better than they were rated for when new.  I am not sure what type works better, lithium ion or ni cad, I really don't know.  I have read that some rechargeables do not work well if at all.  Hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 19, 2009, 08:05:11 PM
the Guy is wrong . BEMF is only produce when the dc current is released . so when he hooks up a battery the first pulse is normal induction but when he released the battery one larger BEMF pulse is release . This is why bedini uses a diods to capture the ONE bemf pulse which is much higher that the original Normal first induction pulse .

Yes, it´s also wrong because it labels the lamp as a "6V neon" lol. You won´t find any neon that will light at 6V, but the BEMF of a hundred or more volts will pulse a neon nicely.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on February 19, 2009, 09:09:35 PM
@jesus

If one could switch those battery around, every few minutes , you would charge both bat.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 19, 2009, 11:32:34 PM
@ MK1:

Isn't there a way to switch the batteries (as you said) electronically ever few minutes?  I mean, maybe even just electrically or electro-mechanically.  Some simple device that would swap them out on a set time period.  I had been thinking about this with the original Bedini a while back but since I didn't finish the motor then, I gave it no further thought.  Seems like it would not be too hard to do some way....what do you think?

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 02:34:41 AM
@ Jesus:

Check with Gadgetmall on this but I believe it is correct.  Your motor is charging the battery in pulses similar to a Bedini charger.  Batteries used in the Bedini type chargers have to be "conditioned" by charging and discharging more than a few times before they work well.  I have not done this....yet, but I have read this in many different places.  Once conditioned, the batteries should work even better than they were rated for when new.  I am not sure what type works better, lithium ion or ni cad, I really don't know.  I have read that some rechargeables do not work well if at all.  Hope this helps.

Bill

thank you @pirate
I read something about that. But I suppose to inform the truth of what happens with my circuits.
I will give it another chance, I will put the batteries to charge again and connect them to the pulse motor until dead and recharge again. It is a very slow process though.

@jesus

If one could switch those battery around, every few minutes , you would charge both bat.

Thank you @mk1

That is something that must people are doing. The only problem is to make a simple circuit to do the swapping.

Thank you @yucca
Thank you @gadgetmall

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 02:39:36 AM
@all

A long time ago I found these circuits on the internet. I dont remember where I got them.
But they are related to switching the batteries.
I tried the one with the two diodes but I had not good luck with it.
The other one is to difficult to implement.
Maybe someone has a better idea or maybe someone can make one of these to work.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 01:22:13 PM
Eureka!!!

First I took one old battery that has .92v without a load. when I connected it to the new toroid the output was 15v and the battery lowered to .36v. I added one of my camera's batteries and it recharged it without the source battery running down. then I added to the source another old battery parallel that has a voltage .74v without load. when I connected it to the circuit in parallel it went down to .36v , just like the other one.

I then used a four battery holder and put my 4 AAA batteries to charge with the circuit connected to the pulse motor and the motor not running. As a test I gave a turn to the rotor and the pulse motor began to spin fast. After a while I stopped the motor and let the batteries recharging overnight.

The battery pack voltage the next day was 5.23V. That was marvelous. And the source battery was .35v. That was incredible!
Very happy I took two batteries out and after measuring their voltage (1.35v) I put them on my camera to take a photo of the new toroid and the circuit variation I had done. The camera went on and then suddenly went off. All the batteries combinations did the same and i got frustrated and posted my conclusion.
Then @pirate reminded me of the preparation that bedini use to do to its charged batteries and I promised to do a test of charging and discharging the batteries in order to give them the bedini treatment.

After having the batteries with the pulse motor not running to reach the voltage of 5.10v with the new circuit variation. I turned the rotor to get the motor going and went to sleep.

In the morning the motor was still running, the battery pack was 4.45v and the source batteries were .35v.

I added a diode to the rectifier with the 13 turns secondary, pointing its cathode to the four batteries pack positive and the batteries pack voltage increased to 4.46v and while I am writing this it is still running fast and the source batteries is still .35v

This is a successful test!!!!  An accidental discovery!

My first successful test on a long time since I started the thread and long before.


Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 01:26:27 PM
@all

I would like to give credit to all those people that in one way or another has helped us on this thread.

@cap-z-ro, @ramset, @innovation-station, @spinner, @abbarue, @pirate88179, @goat, @gadgetmall, @hartiberlin, @guruji, @gyulasun, @mvmcman, @thaelin,
To all the team from @pirate's thread I take my hat off before you all.

Also I would like to give credit to:
@tropes, @mk1 and @sandwichx.

Also I would like to give credit to:
@xenomorphlabs, @tagor, @rensseak, @yucca, @jadaro2600

And if you think that you should also be mentioned here, The thanks go to you too.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 20, 2009, 02:00:12 PM

Congrats with your successful advancement on your charging circuit jesus...your determination is truly inspiring.

It will be interesting to see what this develops into.

Have you tried any type of load on the motor yet ?

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 02:23:27 PM
@capzro

No I have not. But my brother gave me two air core coils. One is broken, but I will repair it and I will test if the motor stops if I put one of them on top of the pulse motor to capture energy with a rectifier.  In other words as a rectified pickup coil.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 02:35:18 PM
@capzro

I made a quick test wit one of the coils. I put it over the motor with a meter attached reading ac voltage and it gives 1.31v ac as output.

By the way the battery voltage of the battery pack is now 4.49v

So this is incredible!!!!!!!!!

And the source batteries in parallel voltage is now .36v

Marvelous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 20, 2009, 04:16:41 PM
@capzro

I made a quick test wit one of the coils. I put it over the motor with a meter attached reading ac voltage and it gives 1.31v ac as output.

By the way the battery voltage of the battery pack is now 4.49v

So this is incredible!!!!!!!!!

And the source batteries in parallel voltage is now .36v

Marvelous!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jesus
congrats Jesus !!! . I was trying to point you to that secret at in My last post but i see you picked up on it :) Now you know you Must Give the Exact Schematic with the windings of you Newman . Good Job . you got it .

Al
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 20, 2009, 04:31:15 PM
Yeah, nice work Jesus! :)

Can't wait to see the schematic and watch the confirmed replications
pile up ;D

Kind regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: plengo on February 20, 2009, 05:48:39 PM
Wonderfull job guys.

Would someone please post the latest schematics necessary to replicate this without having to read 28 pages of docs? Or may be ask Stefan (the admin) to create on the first page a post that is always updated with the latest so that one can always go to that first page and get it all so that WE ALL can replicate while this will still allow the history of the whole thread to be intact.

Fausto.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on February 20, 2009, 06:20:50 PM
Way to go nievesoliveras !!!  Congradulations  :)

@ plengo , I've mentioned the "post the latest schematics on the first page" in other threads, that's something that's sorely lacking on this forum except for the odd thread that has it....it would make a world of difference, especially for long threads such as the JT.

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 08:08:56 PM
@all

I will not make you suffer. It is a pleasure to share this information.

But before I have to explain the heart of the circuit.
The toroid: It is a medium toroidal ferrite from Electronic Goldmine. Part # G6683 Pkg of 5 $1.00

The primary wire is an aluminum covered strand that is bifilar from a computer cable with the number:
AWM E101344 Style 2990

The secondary that is optional, is 30 AWG magnetic wire

The Pulse motor transistor is 2N2222
The Joule thief transistor is 2N4401

The Diodes are 1N60
The optional rectifier is a G1113 from Goldmine

Both the resistors are 100 ohm
The capacitors one is electrolitic 2200uf 50v
The other is ceramic 473z 25v

The potentiometer is 10k
There is a neon bulb and a red LED on the Bedini circuit

The Newman coil has two coils of 700 turns each of 30 AWG magnet wire

The diode comming from the pulse motor circuit is not used. If connected the motor stops.

I do expect that everybody can make a successful replication!!!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: plengo on February 20, 2009, 08:32:06 PM
@ nievesoliveras
great work man.  Now, forgive me to ask a little bit more. Can you post a fresh picture of the setup and show where the charging batteries would be connected?

Many thanks,

Fausto.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 20, 2009, 08:42:18 PM
Great news Jesus, congratulations! The results sound very good.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 09:24:46 PM
@ nievesoliveras
great work man.  Now, forgive me to ask a little bit more. Can you post a fresh picture of the setup and show where the charging batteries would be connected?

Many thanks,

Fausto.

@plengo

I have to get some courage to disconnect the charging batteries from the circuit and take some photos. I am afraid that the motor stop and never again work. As the fan charger I built last year.

When I got the courage to stop the pulse motor I will take some photos. Or wait till I can buy some new batteries and leave that motor running without disturbing it.

It is that is so fulfilling to see the motor with the charging batteries slowly fluctuating between 4.43 volts and 4.49 volts while keeping the source parallel batteries fluctuating between .35 volts and .36 volts.

On the meantime be pleased with this schematic with the charging batteries on their right place.

By the way, the photo maybe will not be that sophisticated, it is the same motor with some changes on it.

I will read the camera instructions to see if it can be used with the computer to take photos without having to buy a new pack of batteries. 

Thank you to all well wishers !!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on February 20, 2009, 10:41:53 PM

Congratulation!

You are a hard worker , and you did a great job! Some would has stopped way before , but not you , real good you did and shared all the way , Good bless you , my friend!

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 20, 2009, 10:53:03 PM
Congratulation!

You are a hard worker , and you did a great job! Some would has stopped way before , but not you , real good you did and shared all the way , Good bless you , my friend!

Mark

Thank you @mk1 !

Here are the photos I took through the computer connection.

Enjoy!  Good replications!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jonnydavro on February 20, 2009, 10:55:43 PM
Hi Jesus,Thanks for sharing your good news and how you obtained it.I have not made a Newman motor yet but when i do it will be based on your circuit.Great work Jesus regards Jonnydavro. ;D
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on February 20, 2009, 11:23:39 PM
@jesus

Try to find 2 hair clipper , and get the coils in them, put one on each open side of your newman , this will give you 2 new power output.
On my bedini that give me 2x120 volts ac.



Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: plengo on February 20, 2009, 11:33:47 PM
@nievesoliveras
That is very good. Thank you!

Do you think it will work with another motor such as an Adams or a Bedini instead of the Newman but using your schematics?

Fausto.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 12:05:49 AM
Quote from: @jonnydavro
Hi Jesus,Thanks for sharing your good news and how you obtained it.I have not made a Newman motor yet but when i do it will be based on your circuit.Great work Jesus regards Jonnydavro

Thank you @jonnydavro !

Quote from: @mk1
@jesus

Try to find 2 hair clipper , and get the coils in them, put one on each open side of your newman , this will give you 2 new power output.
On my bedini that give me 2x120 volts ac.

Mark

I will experiment with that. The only problem is the schematic of the coil connections.
I dont know where you mean to connect them.

Quote from: @plengo
@nievesoliveras
That is very good. Thank you!

Do you think it will work with another motor such as an Adams or a Bedini instead of the Newman but using your schematics?

Fausto.

I think that it will. Because they are pulse motors too.
The secret is on the joule thief toroid.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on February 21, 2009, 12:14:34 AM
The hair clipper coil are like pickup coil , just find something new to do with that power.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 21, 2009, 12:37:16 AM
@ Jesus:

Way to go man!!!  I always knew you could do it.  This is great watching all of the successes here on our forum.  You have worked hard and long and helped many others, myself included, so, you deserve it buddy. Great Job!

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 12:44:24 AM
Quote from: @mk1
The hair clipper coil are like pickup coil , just find something new to do with that power.

Thank you @mk1 !

@ Jesus:

Way to go man!!!  I always knew you could do it.  This is great watching all of the successes here on our forum.  You have worked hard and long and helped many others, myself included, so, you deserve it buddy. Great Job!

Bill

Thank you @captain !
You have been an example and a good friend when needed most.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Yucca on February 21, 2009, 01:24:58 AM
@Jesus,

Exciting times :), is it still running, if yes, what are the levels?

The aluminium covering on the bifilar wrap could well be where your magic lies. I will endeavour to replicate the JT side of things first (with the big electrolyric over the charging bats too).

I have such a wire as you used in a small USB cable for a SD card reader but I´m reluctant to sacrifice it just yet. So I will try to carefuly coat a bifilar copper wire (multistrand) in a sleeve of alu kitchen foil using selotape.

edit:
removed some questions you have already answered earlier in thread.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 01:43:34 AM
@Jesus,

Exciting times :), is it still running, if yes, what are the levels?


The source battery is .36v just right now.  The charging batteries fluctuayes between 4.43v and 4.49v
If I use the voltmeter several times the charging batteries go down to 4.42v

Quote

The aluminium covering on the bifilar wrap could well be where your magic lies. I will endeavour to replicate the JT side of things first (with the big electrolyric over the charging bats too). I will try to carefuly coat a bifilar copper wire (multistrand) in a sleeve of alu kitchen foil using selotape.

Q)
If you disconnect everything to the left of the 2200uF electrolytic, i.e. disconnect the pulse motor but leave the big electrolytic in. Then does your 4 series bat pack still recharge well? I have a feeling it might.


If I do disconnect the pulse motor coil the batteries keep charging better than with the pulse motor on, because the joule thief is providing the charge and not the pulse motor.
If I disconnect the 2200uf cap the source batteries go down until the motor stops. That was yesterday's test.

Quote

NOTE:
If you don´t know this info already then I´m not asking that you do this test imediately by pulling your circuit to pieces, I imagine you will want to take your time without changing anything first to study the batteries responses further. I can wait as long as it takes for the info.

I have received different ideas, but almost all of the ideas want me to stop the motor and do some test. I will enjoy my success by looking at the pulse motor spinning and turning a little red LED salvaged from a camera flash circuit and an occassional little vertical dash of light from the neon bulb for a while and then I will stop it and try to make it run again with other old batteries I have stored to see if it works for real.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2009, 05:41:23 AM
@nievesoliveras,

well done ! Congratulations.

Maybe you can try to put an additional
neon bulb between collector and emitter of the 2N4401 JT transistor ?

This will benefit your driving battery as it might not discharge anymore.

Then your 2N4401 JT transistor would work like a mechanical switch and when the
neon flashes it is like opening a mechanical switch where the neon plasma
feeds current spikes back to the negative terminal of the battery.

2. Do you have your alufoil around the 16 turn wire also connected anywhere
or is this alufoil just unconnected ?

I also guess it could be an effect, that the alufoil might do with shielding eddy currents
or something like this from the 16 turn bifilar coil.

Does this alufoil get warm during operation ?

Maybe the alufoil is really the secret over here.. ?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 21, 2009, 05:49:30 AM
The source battery is .36v just right now.  The charging batteries fluctuayes between 4.43v and 4.49v
If I use the voltmeter several times the charging batteries go down to 4.42v

If I do disconnect the pulse motor coil the batteries keep charging better than with the pulse motor on, because the joule thief is providing the charge and not the pulse motor.
If I disconnect the 2200uf cap the source batteries go down until the motor stops. That was yesterday's test.

I have received different ideas, but almost all of the ideas want me to stop the motor and do some test. I will enjoy my success by looking at the pulse motor spinning and turning a little red LED salvaged from a camera flash circuit and an occassional little vertical dash of light from the neon bulb for a while and then I will stop it and try to make it run again with other old batteries I have stored to see if it works for real.

Jesus
:) I know just how you feel Jesus . You keep right on running that lil babe and enjoy it then when you get the courage Solder it up so it don't fall to pieces .:) I know how those little proto boards have a tendency for components to wiggle loose and short out on another leg and stuff  :) :) I would like to know the dimensions of your pipe you wound your Newman on please .thanks you and Well done My brother
 God Bless and have fun !!


Gadget
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: duff on February 21, 2009, 09:23:34 AM
@nievesoliveras

I would suggest that you leave the motor running and do another build to see if you can replicate your work.


Good Work!

-Duff
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: hartiberlin on February 21, 2009, 11:37:27 AM
Yes, better leave it running for a few days, also without connecting the
volt and ampmeters to it,cause the wires radiate the energy away
and then better build a second prototype.

And also try to use a real circuit board as the white prototype boards
are only for experimentation to change things quickly, so better try
to solder it all up. then you will also see,
if your longer connection cables have any influence or the prototype
board stray capacitances.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 02:01:05 PM
@all

Today I will stop the pulse motor, take the batteries out, and test them with the camera to see if they work.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 21, 2009, 02:06:34 PM
Hi,

This looks very cool. Have you tried to replace the 1,5V battery with excess power from your system? You need a rectifier and a capacitor to make a smooth 1,5V supply by itself...
If you're able to make this motor work without the 1,5V battery, I would be more convinced. Sorry for being a sceptic. :-\

br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 02:07:36 PM
@nievesoliveras,

well done ! Congratulations.

Maybe you can try to put an additional
neon bulb between collector and emitter of the 2N4401 JT transistor ?

This will benefit your driving battery as it might not discharge anymore.

Then your 2N4401 JT transistor would work like a mechanical switch and when the
neon flashes it is like opening a mechanical switch where the neon plasma
feeds current spikes back to the negative terminal of the battery.

I just did that, but when I did, it seems that I broke some delicate balance that was on the circuit and the voltage dropped to 4.45v from 4.47v then it began to fluctuate between 4.45v and 4.46v.

Quote

2. Do you have your alufoil around the 16 turn wire also connected anywhere
or is this alufoil just unconnected ?


There are two wires inside the alufoil and plastic, one is covered in blue material and the other is bare. I connected after winding it, one bare from one side to one blue covered from the other side and that made a bifilar toroid coil center tapped. The alufoil is not connected to anything.

Quote
I also guess it could be an effect, that the alufoil might do with shielding eddy currents
or something like this from the 16 turn bifilar coil.

Does this alufoil get warm during operation ?

No, it does not get warm during operation. Neither the transistor.

Quote
Maybe the alufoil is really the secret over here.. ?

That is the same conclusion I had. The secret is on the alufoil cable and the toroid ferrite quality. Because without any load, just the discharged 1.5v battery, the jt outputs 15.6 volts.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 02:19:05 PM
:) I know just how you feel Jesus . You keep right on running that lil babe and enjoy it then when you get the courage Solder it up so it don't fall to pieces .:) I know how those little proto boards have a tendency for components to wiggle loose and short out on another leg and stuff  :) :) I would like to know the dimensions of your pipe you wound your Newman on please .thanks you and Well done My brother
 God Bless and have fun !!

Gadget

Thank you @gadgetmall !
That same counsel my brother that came yesterday to visit gave me. To solder it permanently. But I will first build a small vertical wind mill with the motor as the wind. I have a small wind generator that I bought a long time ago and it never worked because the wind here seldom blows. That was what started my quest. I hope that I can finish it. Because I feel very tired. And now that I have it, what I want now is to build a crystal radio receiver to get the circuit's joule thief working with that energy instead of an old 1.5v battery.

Jesus

Edit:
Forgive me my friend, I forgot to include the pvc pipe dimensions. It is 4" in diameter, 3.75" height, The rotor is made with two 1/4" plywood glued together (that was what I had at the moment) and then I made the circle cut with the biggest circular drill saw from a door knob installer kit. 
The two magnets are 1" by .5" and when you try to put them to rotate inside the pvc they touch the pvc walls and wont turn, so you need to make two flat cuts at 180 degrees one from the other and they must be almost perfectly equal in deph so the magnets are balanced, hence they will be flying out of the rotor and possibly hurt you, plus they get broken easily when they hit the floor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 02:24:49 PM
@nievesoliveras

I would suggest that you leave the motor running and do another build to see if you can replicate your work.

Good Work!

-Duff

Thank you @duff
If I had the money and the providers were faster on the deliveries. Maybe I were not so tired and maybe I would not have forgotten the ideas so many times waiting for the parts.
The waiting is a killer for me. I am a man of action and in the meantime I wait I change my direction a lot.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 02:55:50 PM
Yes, better leave it running for a few days, also without connecting the
volt and ampmeters to it,cause the wires radiate the energy away
and then better build a second prototype.

I think that I read this post too late. I did stopped the motor. The voltage when I stopped it was 4.43v Because of the neon test.  When I stopped the motor the voltage climbed to 4.63v and is going up very slowly. With very slowly I mean that it first flash the next number for a while then change to it at a slow pace.

Quote
And also try to use a real circuit board as the white prototype boards
are only for experimentation to change things quickly, so better try
to solder it all up. then you will also see,
if your longer connection cables have any influence or the prototype
board stray capacitances.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

I cannot solder the parts now because I am an experimenter and I dont have money to buy new ones now. So what I will do is to experiment with this motor an take photos and draw schematics in order to replicate it back in the case I use the parts for an experiment. I know that it sounds strange. But most of the parts used, were the parts of my most preciated circuit that was a small breadboard with four different joule thief circuits all working with just one 1.5v battery.
The only thing that is left from it is a group of schematics on a paint composition and a photo, the LEDs were blown on an experiment by a high voltage spike, the transistors were needed on other experiments and I hope that when I can get the parts back together the preciated circuit give a shinning light again.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 03:02:11 PM
Hi,

This looks very cool. Have you tried to replace the 1,5V battery with excess power from your system? You need a rectifier and a capacitor to make a smooth 1,5V supply by itself...
If you're able to make this motor work without the 1,5V battery, I would be more convinced. Sorry for being a sceptic. :-\

br.

Vidar

Thank you @lowq
Please explain with a schematic your point. It is very easy to say something negative without a schematic to prove what you are stating.
So please draw your suggestion on paint and if it is something with good base, I will try it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 03:10:51 PM
@all

I did stop the motor and put it back to work with the same batteries and the motor worked perfectly well.
So if you turn it off by disconnecting the pulse motor coil cable that goes to the positive coming from the charging batteries. The circuit begins to recharge the batteries without the extra load that the motor was.

It is working again now.

The next test is to see if the batteries are good to make a camera to work and for how long.
Remember that the problem was that the batteries charge was an illusory voltage with no power at all.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 03:22:34 PM
@all

I did take the two batteries from the circuit. They both were from the charging pack. Each one has a voltage of 1.17v after three days of work.
I put them inside the camera and turn the camera on.  The camera this time did not turn on. The test that I did before at least turned the camera on.

So the conclusion that I posted before still holds.  The charge that this specific circuit gives to the batteries is an illusory voltage.
Even though the voltage is present it does not do any work.  But if you put them back on the circuit the motor works without any problem.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 21, 2009, 03:29:42 PM
Thank you @lowq
Please explain with a schematic your point.

I think his point is to try and make this into a closed loop.
How exactly he imagines to transform the higher voltage output down to 1.5V
using only a rectifier and a cap is unclear to me, but perhaps he is merely
suggesting that as a method to turn fluctuating output into DC input?

I do wonder whether this would run closed loop...
It seems sevral apparent ou circuits stopped functioning when the loop was closed.
I suspect some form of destructive quantum interference is causing the breakdown...

Fortunately, we don't really need to connect the output to the input directly...
If we can charge 2 batteries from 1, I imagine a setup with a minimum of
4 batteries: battery A and B get charged from battery C, while we use battery D
to power a load. Then by some method we measure the charge in the batteries,
and when batteries A and B are nearly full and C and D are nearly empty,
we switch their connections around so that now batteries C and D get charged
from battery A while we use battery B to power the load. Then we keep
repeating this.
That seems like an indirect method of looping the output... :)

regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 03:51:39 PM
I think his point is to try and make this into a closed loop.
How exactly he imagines to transform the higher voltage output down to 1.5V
using only a rectifier and a cap is unclear to me, but perhaps he is merely
suggesting that as a method to turn fluctuating output into DC input?

I do wonder whether this would run closed loop...
It seems sevral apparent ou circuits stopped functioning when the loop was closed.
I suspect some form of destructive quantum interference is causing the breakdown...

Fortunately, we don't really need to connect the output to the input directly...
If we can charge 2 batteries from 1, I imagine a setup with a minimum of
4 batteries: battery A and B get charged from battery C, while we use battery D
to power a load. Then by some method we measure the charge in the batteries,
and when batteries A and B are nearly full and C and D are nearly empty,
we switch their connections around so that now batteries C and D get charged
from battery A while we use battery B to power the load. Then we keep
repeating this.
That seems like an indirect method of looping the output... :)

regards,
Koen

Thanks @koen1
That is the idea of the battery switch or the battery swapper. It is very difficult to implement but I have read somewhere that it has been done already. What we need to do is to find where it is and try to understand how they did it and if they would like to share the information.

Also we can begin to make some possible sketchs of the possible solution and keep modifying it according to what we have attained already experimenting.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 21, 2009, 04:04:40 PM
Yes, I believe I have seen something like that at some point,
if I could only remember where...

I was thinking of using potmeters to measure the battery charges,
then using transistors for the switching... but I haven't worked
anything out in detail. There's guys on this forum that can build
a circuit in their sleep, and I suppose they could work it out easily.
;)

Still, you've got a highly interesting circuit there and I am quite
anxious to try and replicate it. :)

regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 06:53:51 PM
Yes, I believe I have seen something like that at some point,
if I could only remember where...

I was thinking of using potmeters to measure the battery charges,
then using transistors for the switching... but I haven't worked
anything out in detail. There's guys on this forum that can build
a circuit in their sleep, and I suppose they could work it out easily.
;)

Still, you've got a highly interesting circuit there and I am quite
anxious to try and replicate it. :)

regards,
Koen

I was doing experiments with the circuit and I discovered that if instead of disconnecting the running coil by pulling the positive connection in order to stop the motor, we pull out and disconnect the negative connection from the trigger coil the joule thief circuit keeps working better.

So the circuit will have a switch to stop the motor on the trigger's negative wire. When the switch is open the motor stops and the batteries recover more energy while the motor is at rest. When you need the motor again the batteries are ready to go and run the motor.

I dont know if that will damage the joule thief coil, because it will be on all the time while there are source batteries installed on it.

What I know is that it charges the batteries better if you disconnect the trigger negative wire.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 21, 2009, 07:16:50 PM
Thank you @lowq
Please explain with a schematic your point. It is very easy to say something negative without a schematic to prove what you are stating.
So please draw your suggestion on paint and if it is something with good base, I will try it.

Jesus
I can do that. However John Newman claims you must use a battery to make this work.
A thought you might look more in to; You cannot look at amps or voltage output versus input separately. To verify the power output versus power input, you must compare the product of amps times voltage at output, and amps times voltage at input. Power is not amps alone, but a product of voltage and amps. Many people has been mislead by the thought that amps alone only matter when it comes to power. Just to "warn" you a bit before you scream "EUREKA!!" :)

Maybe this video you'll find interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY)
br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 10:38:47 PM
I can do that. However John Newman claims you must use a battery to make this work.
A thought you might look more in to; You cannot look at amps or voltage output versus input separately. To verify the power output versus power input, you must compare the product of amps times voltage at output, and amps times voltage at input. Power is not amps alone, but a product of voltage and amps. Many people has been mislead by the thought that amps alone only matter when it comes to power. Just to "warn" you a bit before you scream "EUREKA!!" :)

Maybe this video you'll find interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY)
br.

Vidar

If the person on the video is you. You seem a very inteligent person.
There is a misunderstanding in all this.  If you have been following this thread from the beginning. You will know by now that the purpose I had is to make a pulse motor to run with a 1.5v and recharge the battery while doing so.

Ok. When I screamed eureka I was screaming not because of the newman motor. If you check the circuit again, you will see that the newman motor does nothing to feedback anything to the source.

The newman motor (I will say pulse motor, because any pulse motor works with this circuit) is just the one I had at hand to make experiments with, that do not take too much space.

There is a problem where I live and is that the wind seldom blows.  I bought a wind turbine kit. The wind does not blow. Then I need to device something to be the wind. In this case a pulse motor. The motor will not do any electric generation whatsoever. Who is going to do all the job is the 1.5v runner circuit.

If you take the circuit I posted and eliminate the pulse motor circuit completely and let only its 2200uf capacitor in place. This circuit will (with an old 1.5v battery) charge a pack of 4 1.5v batteries that somehow the charge given to them does not work on a camera to take a photo, but if you put back the pulse motor and run it with that same pack of batteries, it will work.

Dont be my enemy, Be my friend.
We can share information about motors.
I love electromechanics.  I am retired now, but I use to work on an electromechanic shop for ten years.

Again is not the pulse motor what charge the batteries, is the toroid or Joule thief circuit that does the job.

Lets be friends.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jonnydavro on February 21, 2009, 11:10:49 PM
Hi,There is a very clever and gifted user on utube called "theDaftman".He has made a battery swapper circuit which monitors the voltage and when it reaches a level set by a pot ,it swaps batteries.He is using it to swap 12v batteries but you may be able to adjust it for 1.5v batteries.Here is a link to his video.You can download his circuit, details in vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbQQYEsxDpg
Also you may consider using a 4 pole double throw relay.If you can find one which latches(these have 2 coils and have the advantage that they don't need continous power.)If you can't find a 4pdt latching relay,you may be able to modify an ordinary single coil 4pdt relay by adding another coil or use 2 latching 2pdt relays in parallel.Hope this helps. ;D
                                                      regards jonnydavro
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 11:20:13 PM
Hi,There is a very clever and gifted user on utube called "theDaftman".He has made a battery swapper circuit which monitors the voltage and when it reaches a level set by a pot ,it swaps batteries.He is using it to swap 12v batteries but you may be able to adjust it for 1.5v batteries.Here is a link to his video.You can download his circuit, details in vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BbQQYEsxDpg
Also you may consider using a 4 pole double throw relay.If you can find one which latches(these have 2 coils and have the advantage that they don't need continous power.)If you can't find a 4pdt latching relay,you may be able to modify an ordinary single coil 4pdt relay by adding another coil or use 2 latching 2pdt relays in parallel.Hope this helps. ;D
                                                      regards jonnydavro


Thank you @jonnydavro

By the way I am a member of his site. But last year he said that he could not share that information because it was not his to share.
Now I remember where I read about that swapper.

I will check the video and try to log in on the site if my account is still active.
I even have an information of the tesla switch on my hardisk. I dont know how I forgot.

Thank you!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 21, 2009, 11:35:40 PM
If the person on the video is you. You seem a very inteligent person.
There is a misunderstanding in all this.  If you have been following this thread from the beginning. You will know by now that the purpose I had is to make a pulse motor to run with a 1.5v and recharge the battery while doing so.

Ok. When I screamed eureka I was screaming not because of the newman motor. If you check the circuit again, you will see that the newman motor does nothing to feedback anything to the source.

The newman motor (I will say pulse motor, because any pulse motor works with this circuit) is just the one I had at hand to make experiments with, that do not take too much space.

There is a problem where I live and is that the wind seldom blows.  I bought a wind turbine kit. The wind does not blow. Then I need to device something to be the wind. In this case a pulse motor. The motor will not do any electric generation whatsoever. Who is going to do all the job is the 1.5v runner circuit.

If you take the circuit I posted and eliminate the pulse motor circuit completely and let only its 2200uf capacitor in place. This circuit will (with an old 1.5v battery) charge a pack of 4 1.5v batteries that somehow the charge given to them does not work on a camera to take a photo, but if you put back the pulse motor and run it with that same pack of batteries, it will work.

Dont be my enemy, Be my friend.
We can share information about motors.
I love electromechanics.  I am retired now, but I use to work on an electromechanic shop for ten years.

Again is not the pulse motor what charge the batteries, is the toroid or Joule thief circuit that does the job.

Lets be friends.

Jesus
Hi,

I'm not the person in the video, so the first conclusion is that I'm not that intelligent -  ;D

However, my intelligence tells me that if you're gonna charge a battery from a 1,5VAA cell, you must take all that capacity from that AA cell. Further, this AA cell is running a circuit that enables a motor to run. This motor is then in turn claimed to charge the battery inside the circuit. Well, I don't tell it's impossible. I see that motor as the same as a step up transformer that enables several volt output. That said, this output also have a current flow, measured in ampéres.

So the questions is:
How much Ah (ampere hour) is the battery capable of being charged, and how many Ah is used from the 1,5V AA cell?
Further the question is also about how much voltage both AA cell and battery represent at the end of charging?

Next stop is now the question on how to use the charged battery to use its excess capacity to replace the 1,5V AA cell. If the total capacity in Ah is more on a fully charged battery than you use in Ah from the 1,5V AA cell, you can simply replace the 1,5V AA cell with a small capacitor, where the plus end is connected to plus on the charged battery via a resistor.

Now, with the right size of the resistor, the charged battery will apply 1,5V in the place of the previous 1,5V AA cell (where approx 4,5V is resting over the resistor), with the same current flow for running that motor. So the motor can charge the battery of four AA cells again - as i have understood the motor is essensial to make a proper charge of those four AA cells (the battery) - to run your camera.

Hey, Jesus. I'm not your enemy, and I will gladly share my knowledge about electro motors. And with ten years experience, you sure know how to make a proper motor or a generator for that matter. So keep on going, but be aware that equation: P = U x I (P = watt, U = voltage, I = ampére). P is all that matters.

Just a hint from the sideline, and some off topic: Phase shift between current and voltage, can also trick ones brain to believe there is overunity. Say you have a capacitor and an inductor in parallell. At the resonance frequency, the applied AC voltage does almost not apply current at all. However, the current flown through the capacitor and the inductor internally might be several tens of ampéres, but almost 180 degree out of phase of each other. For sure you're able to measure 10 amps at the same voltage with instruments - making you believe you have much more power out than you put in.

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 11:48:25 PM
Hi,

I'm not the person in the video, so the first conclusion is that I'm not that intelligent -  ;D

However, my intelligence tells me that if you're gonna charge a battery from a 1,5VAA cell, you must take all that capacity from that AA cell. Further, this AA cell is running a circuit that enables a motor to run. This motor is then in turn claimed to charge the battery inside the circuit. Well, I don't tell it's impossible. I see that motor as the same as a step up transformer that enables several volt output. That said, this output also have a current flow, measured in ampéres.

So the questions is:
How much Ah (ampere hour) is the battery capable of being charged, and how many Ah is used from the 1,5V AA cell?
Further the question is also about how much voltage both AA cell and battery represent at the end of charging?

Next stop is now the question on how to use the charged battery to use its excess capacity to replace the 1,5V AA cell. If the total capacity in Ah is more on a fully charged battery than you use in Ah from the 1,5V AA cell, you can simply replace the 1,5V AA cell with a small capacitor, where the plus end is connected to plus on the charged battery via a resistor.

Now, with the right size of the resistor, the charged battery will apply 1,5V in the place of the previous 1,5V AA cell (where approx 4,5V is resting over the resistor), with the same current flow for running that motor. So the motor can charge the battery of four AA cells again - as i have understood the motor is essensial to make a proper charge of those four AA cells (the battery) - to run your camera.

Hey, Jesus. I'm not your enemy, and I will gladly share my knowledge about electro motors. And with ten years experience, you sure know how to make a proper motor or a generator for that matter. So keep on going, but be aware that equation: P = U x I (P = watt, U = voltage, I = ampére). P is all that matters.

Just a hint from the sideline, and some off topic: Phase shift between current and voltage, can also trick ones brain to believe there is overunity. Say you have a capacitor and an inductor in parallell. At the resonance frequency, the applied AC voltage does almost not apply current at all. However, the current flown through the capacitor and the inductor internally might be several tens of ampéres, but almost 180 degree out of phase of each other. For sure you're able to measure 10 amps at the same voltage with instruments - making you believe you have much more power out than you put in.

Br.

Vidar

Thank you @lowq

What I did now is I disconnected the pulse motor by pulling the trigger negative wire and am testing the circuit to see what happens.

I have somewhere on my hardisk a schematic of a way to increase the amps when the voltage is ac.
I will fetch it and post it for your consideration. By the way I dont know where I found it. I have been years on my energy quest.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 11:53:38 PM
@lowq

I was lucky today. It was on the first directory searched.
According with the schematic heading it seems that I found it on a search done at EnergeticForum.
Instead of 120v. The output of a toroid coil could be used in order to get feedback to the source that has more amps.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on February 21, 2009, 11:54:49 PM
@ Jonnydavro:

That is exactly what I envisioned and what I posted about a few pages back.  Fantastic!  I knew there should be a way to do that, I just didn't know how.  This is very good information.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 21, 2009, 11:59:35 PM
@pirate

I will log on the @daftman forum and if I find any schematic I will post it here for the benefit of all members.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 22, 2009, 12:13:35 AM
@pirate

I will log on the @daftman forum and if I find any schematic I will post it here for the benefit of all members.

Jesus

The Daftman is a very generous person. He posted the swapper diagram on this link:

http://www.mediafire.com/?trzuykmylkm

I also got the one on the forum's page and is this one:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 22, 2009, 11:46:56 AM
@lowq

I was lucky today. It was on the first directory searched.
According with the schematic heading it seems that I found it on a search done at EnergeticForum.
Instead of 120v.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Increasing capacity will allow more current draw between A and B. However, I think I have got lost somewhere, as I honestly do not see the point in having that capacitor there at all but a solid wire, except for reducing voltage over A-B when loaded.

Quote
The output of a toroid coil could be used in order to get feedback to the source that has more amps.

Can you make a drawing of what you are thinking of? Because I cannot see how you can get more amps without loosing voltage.

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 22, 2009, 01:26:26 PM
@all

In order to vanish any doubt out of my mind. I disassembled the circuit. I put the joule thief only on a small breadboard and put a fresh battery with 1.34v on the circuit and in a few seconds maybe a minute, the output voltage went up and made the meter to show the overflow voltage warning.
I changed the meter selector to the 200v scale and the voltage was 25v. While I prepared the camera it kept rising and this are the photos.

This circuit with the new toroid are the heart of this voltage that charges a battery, the batteries cannot make a camera to work, but again, if you connect them to a pulse motor with the circuit included, the motor will spin with a good steady velocity.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 22, 2009, 01:37:40 PM
Increasing capacity will allow more current draw between A and B. However, I think I have got lost somewhere, as I honestly do not see the point in having that capacitor there at all but a solid wire, except for reducing voltage over A-B when loaded.

Can you make a drawing of what you are thinking of? Because I cannot see how you can get more amps without loosing voltage.

Br.

Vidar

Remember that I found that circuit on a search on the web. I dont know if it is true what it states. I need to clear my mind from all the obstacles that I have found with this quest of mine and start brainstorming again in order to increase the amps at the output.
At the moment I have no idea where to start. But the plan will now be to include the toroid on that circuit with a couple of caps and see if the meter can capture the correct measurements ac, dc and amps.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 22, 2009, 05:22:22 PM
The two pictures with the "1" in the display, just show that the input volt exceeds the 20V limit. I just wonder why these pictures is shown.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: plengo on February 22, 2009, 05:42:42 PM
@plengo

I have to get some courage to disconnect the charging batteries from the circuit and take some photos. I am afraid that the motor stop and never again work. As the fan charger I built last year.

When I got the courage to stop the pulse motor I will take some photos. Or wait till I can buy some new batteries and leave that motor running without disturbing it.

It is that is so fulfilling to see the motor with the charging batteries slowly fluctuating between 4.43 volts and 4.49 volts while keeping the source parallel batteries fluctuating between .35 volts and .36 volts.

On the meantime be pleased with this schematic with the charging batteries on their right place.

By the way, the photo maybe will not be that sophisticated, it is the same motor with some changes on it.

I will read the camera instructions to see if it can be used with the computer to take photos without having to buy a new pack of batteries. 

Thank you to all well wishers !!!

Jesus
@ nievesoliveras

Today I am trying to replicate your great work but I am having some difficulty with the coil, which is the heart of your design. On the schematics I see that you have a 16 turns and 13 turns. Is the 16 the one with the aluminum and the 13 with the enameled wire? and Is the aluminum going to the collector and  and the base of the transistor?

Is the enameled connect how? I only see on the schematics one wire but where is the other wire going? I could not figure it out looking at the pictures. Would you be able to take a very close picture of the toroid please?

Many thanks in advance,

Fausto
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 22, 2009, 10:12:36 PM
I can do that. However John Newman claims you must use a battery to make this work.
A thought you might look more in to; You cannot look at amps or voltage output versus input separately. To verify the power output versus power input, you must compare the product of amps times voltage at output, and amps times voltage at input. Power is not amps alone, but a product of voltage and amps. Many people has been mislead by the thought that amps alone only matter when it comes to power. Just to "warn" you a bit before you scream "EUREKA!!" :)

Maybe this video you'll find interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_YikaYUEgY)
br.

Vidar
You got a lot to learn . Forget your Calculations  . Bemf  IS voltage Amps and TIME
And all of our designs that self runs uses a Buffer(Battery ) as Newman and Bedini as well  like Jesus and i . Its a fact Please Build your own  a working model yourself Prove it to yourself . We prove to ourselves , give you the plans . Make your own and see . This is why a post like yours offends us and we care not see post such as yours . Never come to someones Forum's thread  with Negative Attitude and  start explaining how to measure this and that  about equations you have no idea  to include the Space Time calculation besides just amps and volts . It don't work that way .to use on an overunity or unity device.COP1 :2  you build it YOU WONT KNOW and therefor Have no Right at all to Criticize the great work done here Especially when others have already duplicate and do have the right to offer help .
. .When you get to Our Level Of success you will also Scream EUREKA !!! Don't Spoil it fo other just because you cant understand it and want proof to be shoved down your throat :) Its here already read !
regards
Gadget   
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on February 22, 2009, 11:02:09 PM
You got a lot to learn . Forget your Calculations of old Laws . Bemf  IS voltage Amps and time
And all of our designs that self runs uses a Buffer(Battery )  like Jesus and i . Its a fact and unless you come up with a working model yourself like we Have we really don't care what you Believe . We prove to ourselves , give you the plans . Make your own and see . This is why a post like yours offends us and we care not see to crap like that . either put up or shut up .Talk is Cheap !
regards
Gadget   

Gadget
This is an excellent public forum and "public" means it is for all. If you wish to hear only affirmation and praise you form a group of like-minded "yes people". In a democracy ideas are open to scrutiny and criticism. Learn to welcome those who doubt and prove them wrong.
Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 22, 2009, 11:47:47 PM
Gadget
This is an excellent public forum and "public" means it is for all. If you wish to hear only affirmation and praise you form a group of like-minded "yes people". In a democracy ideas are open to scrutiny and criticism. Learn to welcome those who doubt and prove them wrong.
Tropes
Your are correct and again have you Built one? . If not please by all means produce something useful besides Mumbo Jumbo .  :) No they are not welcome in my Humble opinion . They are procrastinators .Sorry But again another useless post . Build it and you will see .then we have something in common . and if you cant get it to work then offer Doubt .That is well received Feedback someone who is active and is doing the work . Not some one who sits and say . You'll have to convince . me . No you have to convince yourself.
Regards
Gadget
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Light on February 22, 2009, 11:59:38 PM
tropes, Low-Q
I agree with you. It’s open source, and everyone have rites to speak. They yelling “eureka” and “selfrunnind” based on nothing. I’ve built all these concepts and designs and none of it is FE or OU or SR (selfrunning), but just regular transformers and pulse chargers which one can find on stores’ shelves.
But if it makes them happy, why to argue?
Just do your own stuff…
 :)
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 12:56:30 AM
@gadgetmall

You and @pirate are truly good friends when a friend is needed!!!!!!

@lowq
thank you for your participation on this thread.

@tropes
Thank you for your participation on this thread.

@light
thank you for your participation on this thread.

I want to say something.
I was asking myself why a forum member named Dr. Stffler was so mad.
Now that I have attained some level of success I know why.

Are you aware that I can lock this topic and nobody can post in it?

From now on, if you are not replicating my work or contributing with constructive ideas the only answer you will get is:
@Your name here:  thank you for your participation on this thread.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 01:35:05 AM
@ nievesoliveras

Today I am trying to replicate your great work but I am having some difficulty with the coil, which is the heart of your design. On the schematics I see that you have a 16 turns and 13 turns. Is the 16 the one with the aluminum and the 13 with the enameled wire? and Is the aluminum going to the collector and  and the base of the transistor?
Yes, you got it right!

Quote
Is the enameled connect how?
The enameled wire 13 turns of it in my case is wounded as a single winding. The two legs of the wire go to the rectifier.
It is not really needed. But it helps.
What I did was what @jeanna did with her joule thief coil.

You turn the motor with the joule thief circuit and the 4 charging batteries in place. Then you take 16 inches of enameled wire and with the ends already sanded, introduce it through the toroid coil and attach a meter to the sanded ends. If the ac output is less than 2v,  disconnect the meter and keep winding the enameled thread thorugh the toroid. Measure again and when you get between 2.5 and three volts stop and connect the diode from the rectifier to the charging batteries positive.

Remember that is the way I did it.  You could try to wind the enameled wire for a higher voltage output. It is up to you.

Quote
I only see on the schematics one wire but where is the other wire going? I could not figure it out looking at the pictures. Would you be able to take a very close picture of the toroid please?

Many thanks in advance,

Fausto

Just do what I explained first.
If you have problems ask me again.

About the close up of the toroid coil, the closest I can get without it becoming a blur is those photos posted.

Jesus

Edit:

Respect to the 13 turns that I made it to no higher than 3v, it was because I was using it initially with a diode directly connected to the 1.5v source battery and I did not want that a higher output voltage connected to the battery could damage the battery. Then I notice that the connection was not working properly like that and I connected the diode to the charging battery instead. That is why it is optional.
But to use it as a charger for the charging batteries the turns should be made on a way that the output voltage exceeds the battery pack voltage.
so a good output would be around 7v. Even though it is not needed because the toroid coil gives out 38v.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: plengo on February 23, 2009, 02:11:46 AM
@nievesoliveras
I like the fact that you can lock the thread, we need that if it looses control.

I am a little bit puzzled now about the coil still. I got that the second 13 turns is optional. Now, I thought that that 13 turns was the one that goes to the center of the coil on the schematics. Look at the picture modified. I understand by looking at it that you have the terminal 3 and 4 connected together making the whole coil a 3 ends coil.  Is my modified picture correct (green arrow) ?

And is this the cable you used: http://cordsplus.com/pages/vga_cables.html  ?

Many thanks again.

Fausto.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 02:46:22 AM
@nievesoliveras
I like the fact that you can lock the thread, we need that if it looses control.

I am a little bit puzzled now about the coil still. I got that the second 13 turns is optional. Now, I thought that that 13 turns was the one that goes to the center of the coil on the schematics. Look at the picture modified. I understand by looking at it that you have the terminal 3 and 4 connected together making the whole coil a 3 ends coil.  Is my modified picture correct (green arrow) ?

And is this the cable you used: http://cordsplus.com/pages/vga_cables.html  ?

Many thanks again.

Fausto.


It does seem correct. Just remember to take one bare wire from one side and one covered wire from the other side and join them. That is the joule thief center tap. There should be one bare and one covered left. It is just as a bifilar joule thief toroid coil as your drawing.

That cable you show on your link is not the one I used but if it has bifilar strands inside it can be used.

The one I used was taken from the cable that comes from the source power of the house to a monitor. When I opened the discarded monitor there was three aluninum wires around a long toroid and I saw that the cables were comming from the cable mentioned.

That was what turned on my inventor's mind. I asked myself, what would happen if I built a toroid coil with it, and the rest is history thanks to @pirate's counseling about the battery conditioning needed....

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 23, 2009, 03:44:21 AM
Here is a Smaller Battery Switcher Which Uses Less Parts . I will Try To integrate it into the Newman and Bedini Jt  for An extra battery to do extra Work . Ie . Lights  Backup  , run another motor  or just to have a few extra batteries always Charged .  I have found a piece of Pipe . And have the Toroid Wound . So Next step is Cut it and Wind the Newman . . I always wanted one :) !

I Find Myself a little tired of the Nonsense in threads that is meant to hinder ones work than help . I apologize because it not my thread but i know you have worked hard and went thru a lot of electronics to get where you are right .
 I think your Getting a Genuine BEMF Positive Charge . That is VERY Good !! . Now All were need to do is boost it with some caps .have you tried this setup . I show you on your schemitic below  I see you did not connect your Bridge negative up ? r .
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 23, 2009, 03:58:47 AM
or even Better as this wont interfere with your motor . Isolated Charger ?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 23, 2009, 12:37:14 PM
Yeah, that may not be a bad idea at all, to seperate the charger side
from the rest of the circuit. :)

Thanks Gadgetmall, you sure are a great source of handy circuits ;D

best regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 23, 2009, 12:52:51 PM
You got a lot to learn . Forget your Calculations  . Bemf  IS voltage Amps and TIME
And all of our designs that self runs uses a Buffer(Battery ) as Newman and Bedini as well  like Jesus and i . Its a fact Please Build your own  a working model yourself Prove it to yourself . We prove to ourselves , give you the plans . Make your own and see . This is why a post like yours offends us and we care not see post such as yours . Never come to someones Forum's thread  with Negative Attitude and  start explaining how to measure this and that  about equations you have no idea  to include the Space Time calculation besides just amps and volts . It don't work that way .to use on an overunity or unity device.COP1 :2  you build it YOU WONT KNOW and therefor Have no Right at all to Criticize the great work done here Especially when others have already duplicate and do have the right to offer help .
. .When you get to Our Level Of success you will also Scream EUREKA !!! Don't Spoil it fo other just because you cant understand it and want proof to be shoved down your throat :) Its here already read !
regards
Gadget   
No offence, guys!

I am really sorry if I have offended anyone, I truly am! But shouldn't it be possible to question both your statements, results, and the Newman-motor itself? You all hopefull guys MUST take into concideration that someone allways will question your work, and the results. My link was also a link to a guy which was mislead to believe he could make more power than he used. This is a story of a man with several designs, and trials - all of them failed. He has spent lots of dollars on his project for nothing. You should sure respect those experiences as well!

I think this thread is going a little bit out of hand. However I whish to state my views, and share some infrmation, guide people with the help of some common theory and practical experimnts. If a blind man is walking with his stick towards a steep cliff believing that he is walking safely, wouldn't you try to guide him in another direction? At least tell him a few hints that this particular diection isn't doing any good? OK, I know this is just theory, so maybe that man knows that the power of space will help him walking in thin air? And sure he well walk in thin air - but just for a while. For sure he will stay in the air for quite much longer time with a parachute - WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT! And then, by help of his friend, he will post his achievements on YouTube. No offence!!!

I understand Jesus, and how he works hard to obtain something with his Newman motor, but nothing in the design can tell me anything about the possibility to OU, or ability to charge a battery pack to more CAPACITY than it takes from the 1,5V AA cell. It WILL charge more than the 1,5 volts, but I'll explain why later in this post.

The switches for the motor itself helps generates high voltage every time the switch is turned off, due to the fact that you are rapidly turning off the magnetic field in the coils. The charge you then get is a result of built up magnetic field in advance by the 1,5V AA cell. I also believe the amps is quite high in a moment too - much higher than continous drawn from the AA cell, but the TIME that high power output is lasting is extremely short. As you stated. It is about amps, voltage and TIME.

We must focus on the net work done in the circuit. 1 watt (U x I) in 1 hour (TIME), do the same work as 3600 watts in one second. I know physics quite much more than well enough to make a statement, but ofcourse, I do not know everything.

I will try to be more open minded regarding the "impossible", but you guys should also be more open minded to the "possible".

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 12:57:48 PM
Here is a Smaller Battery Switcher Which Uses Less Parts . I will Try To integrate it into the Newman and Bedini Jt  for An extra battery to do extra Work . Ie . Lights  Backup  , run another motor  or just to have a few extra batteries always Charged .  I have found a piece of Pipe . And have the Toroid Wound . So Next step is Cut it and Wind the Newman . . I always wanted one :) !

I Find Myself a little tired of the Nonsense in threads that is meant to hinder ones work than help . I apologize because it not my thread but i know you have worked hard and went thru a lot of electronics to get where you are right .
 I think your Getting a Genuine BEMF Positive Charge . That is VERY Good !! . Now All were need to do is boost it with some caps .have you tried this setup . I show you on your schemitic below  I see you did not connect your Bridge negative up ? r .


It does not use the rectifier negative connected because when I did it lowered the rotor speed a little.
By the way the thirteen turn secondary was meant as  feedback to the 1.5v battery. I found that it did not work as expected and connected it to the charging battery. That is why is optional.
To use it as a charger perse, its output voltage should exceed the battery pack voltage. So the turns must be made in order to obtain an output of  7v. But because the toroid outputs 38v, you can use that secondary for other purposes.

Your battery switcher looks simple, but I still dont understand how will it be implemented. It seems an 555 IC with a single post double through relay. Is that correct?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 01:03:02 PM
or even Better as this wont interfere with your motor . Isolated Charger ?

The battery pack is on a spot that does two functions. It does get charged and it does turn the motor with the charge produced.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 01:10:58 PM
Yeah, that may not be a bad idea at all, to seperate the charger side
from the rest of the circuit. :)

Thanks Gadgetmall, you sure are a great source of handy circuits ;D

best regards,
Koen

The battery cannot be removed from the spot it is in. May be it can be removed but, I put it there to get charged and to help the jt with the motor load.
You can put the battery pack on the isolated rectifier if you give it more wire turns in order to exceed the battery pack voltage with the rectified output voltage and not use a pulse motor at all. The motor is doing nothing but spending the charge produced by the JT circuit.

Better is to eliminate the motor, let the battery pack in its place and add another battery pack on the isolated rectifier, after increasing the wire turns number.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 01:24:21 PM
No offence, guys!

I am really sorry if I have offended anyone, I truly am! But shouldn't it be possible to question both your statements, results, and the Newman-motor itself? You all hopefull guys MUST take into concideration that someone allways will question your work, and the results. My link was also a link to a guy which was mislead to believe he could make more power than he used. This is a story of a man with several designs, and trials - all of them failed. He has spent lots of dollars on his project for nothing. You should sure respect those experiences as well!

I think this thread is going a little bit out of hand. However I whish to state my views, and share some infrmation, guide people with the help of some common theory and practical experimnts. If a blind man is walking with his stick towards a steep cliff believing that he is walking safely, wouldn't you try to guide him in another direction? At least tell him a few hints that this particular diection isn't doing any good? OK, I know this is just theory, so maybe that man knows that the power of space will help him walking in thin air? And sure he well walk in thin air - but just for a while. For sure he will stay in the air for quite much longer time with a parachute - WHAT AN ACHIEVEMENT! And then, by help of his friend, he will post his achievements on YouTube. No offence!!!

I understand Jesus, and how he works hard to obtain something with his Newman motor, but nothing in the design can tell me anything about the possibility to OU, or ability to charge a battery pack to more CAPACITY than it takes from the 1,5V AA cell. It WILL charge more than the 1,5 volts, but I'll explain why later in this post.

The switches for the motor itself helps generates high voltage every time the switch is turned off, due to the fact that you are rapidly turning off the magnetic field in the coils. The charge you then get is a result of built up magnetic field in advance by the 1,5V AA cell. I also believe the amps is quite high in a moment too - much higher than continous drawn from the AA cell, but the TIME that high power output is lasting is extremely short. As you stated. It is about amps, voltage and TIME.

We must focus on the net work done in the circuit. 1 watt (U x I) in 1 hour (TIME), do the same work as 3600 watts in one second. I know physics quite much more than well enough to make a statement, but ofcourse, I do not know everything.

I will try to be more open minded regarding the "impossible", but you guys should also be more open minded to the "possible".

Br.

Vidar

I understand what you are saying.
But I never claimed OU. What I said is that I was having tremendous success. The success was that the batteries were charging and the source batteries were not discharging. They were fluctuating up and down between two numbers for two and a half days.
I know that there is nothing connected to the source battery in order to receive feedback and produce OU. But it seems that a toroid coil made with a bifilar cable that is covered with aluminum and plastic, with a bare wire and a covered wire together on that cable configuration, produces an effect that makes the source batteries undecided of the voltage direction to go. I mean charge or discharge. It stays fluctuating its voltage between two meter values.

Remember, I may be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 23, 2009, 04:15:01 PM
I understand what you are saying.
But I never claimed OU. What I said is that I was having tremendous success. The success was that the batteries were charging and the source batteries were not discharging. They were fluctuating up and down between two numbers for two and a half days.
I know that there is nothing connected to the source battery in order to receive feedback and produce OU. But it seems that a toroid coil made with a bifilar cable that is covered with aluminum and plastic, with a bare wire and a covered wire together on that cable configuration, produces an effect that makes the source batteries undecided of the voltage direction to go. I mean charge or discharge. It stays fluctuating its voltage between two meter values.

Remember, I may be wrong though.

Jesus
Hi,

How did you came up with the bifilar, aluminumfoil covered toroid wire?

Did you meant that the source battery voltage is fluctating, or is the voltage fluctating up and down between the source battery and the charged battery?

It is great that you can charge a battery from a sourche which is not decharging (It will keep me awake for a few nights thinking on how this is possible). So if you place a volt meter over the 1,5V battery, it will read 1,5V for two days straight without sign of voltage drop while you are charging the other battery (Unless the source voltage is fluctating)?

Can you place an amp-meter in series with the source battery, and do the same with the charging battery? Just to see how much amps there is flowing through these two batteries (Considered the knowledge about the voltage over each battery). If you have an "average-switch" on the two meters, you can for a period of time see the average current drawn from the source, and the current which is charging the other battery.

If you have time, you can also make a watt-meter. You can find these analog "bulk" meters on ebay or something. The needle in this analog meter is driven by an electromagnet in stead of the moving magnet you find on analog amp, or volt meters. The stator is also an electromagnet (As usual). So you will never read any values unless you have input on both electromagnets. Basicly it is both an amp-meter and volt-meter in one operation - also with at least three wires for measuring both amps and voltage at the same time. The scale is therefor logarithmic. Perfect for reading the power in true-time.

I hope you don't think I'm fooling now. I'm serious about these questions and ideas.

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 05:30:57 PM
Do you mean that it is annoying when you post your findings and strangers
jump in and start questioning your findings and start telling you why what
you reported is impossible, that kind of thing?
I can very well imagine that such experiences can be enfuriating.

And there's more parallels with Stiffler's work if I am not mistaken...
You use a wire that is bifilar with an aluminium coating around it,
a "computer wire", as you called it in the thread... Am I correct
in thinking you are talking about a single isolated wire with a second
wire wound around it, with a thin aluminium layer wrapped around these?
Stiffler, as I suppose you know, uses something similar, he often
uses capacitors wrapped in a layer of aluminium or wires wrapped
in such a layer.

I was wondering if we can do what you're doing here with a JT instead of
newman-like setups...?

In any case, nil illegitimi carborandum my friend :)
lol no they probably were not ;)
lol
and they went quiet :)

Best regards,
Koen


@koen1
Thank you for your participation on this thread.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 05:41:00 PM
Hi,

How did you came up with the bifilar, aluminumfoil covered toroid wire?

Did you meant that the source battery voltage is fluctating, or is the voltage fluctating up and down between the source battery and the charged battery?

It is great that you can charge a battery from a sourche which is not decharging (It will keep me awake for a few nights thinking on how this is possible). So if you place a volt meter over the 1,5V battery, it will read 1,5V for two days straight without sign of voltage drop while you are charging the other battery (Unless the source voltage is fluctating)?

Can you place an amp-meter in series with the source battery, and do the same with the charging battery? Just to see how much amps there is flowing through these two batteries (Considered the knowledge about the voltage over each battery). If you have an "average-switch" on the two meters, you can for a period of time see the average current drawn from the source, and the current which is charging the other battery.

If you have time, you can also make a watt-meter. You can find these analog "bulk" meters on ebay or something. The needle in this analog meter is driven by an electromagnet in stead of the moving magnet you find on analog amp, or volt meters. The stator is also an electromagnet (As usual). So you will never read any values unless you have input on both electromagnets. Basicly it is both an amp-meter and volt-meter in one operation - also with at least three wires for measuring both amps and voltage at the same time. The scale is therefor logarithmic. Perfect for reading the power in true-time.

I hope you don't think I'm fooling now. I'm serious about these questions and ideas.

Br.

Vidar

It does seem correct. Just remember to take one bare wire from one side and one covered wire from the other side and join them. That is the joule thief center tap. There should be one bare and one covered left. It is just as a bifilar joule thief toroid coil as your drawing.

That cable you show on your link is not the one I used but if it has bifilar strands inside it can be used.

The one I used was taken from the cable that comes from the source power of the house to a monitor. When I opened the discarded monitor there was three aluminum wires around a long toroid and I saw that the cables were comming from the cable mentioned.

That was what turned on my inventor's mind. I asked myself, what would happen if I built a toroid coil with it, and the rest is history thanks to @pirate's counseling about the battery conditioning needed....

Jesus

You simply are not reading the thread.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 23, 2009, 05:44:13 PM
@all

Because we are going to use super capacitors eventually, I got this information about them.
I will post it here for later reference.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 03:02:28 AM
@all

I found this circuit interesting. I will include it here as a possible self runner. The inventor claims that it produces its own power and feeds it back on a loop. I think that it deserves a try.
It is a joule thief coil circuit, divided onto two coils. I mean a two coil joule thief. Instead of the bifilar coil, it has the same connection with separated coils. It uses no battery is the claim the author has.

There is a lego version that says that it is not true.
Does anyone has done it?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: robbie47 on February 24, 2009, 11:11:30 AM
@all

I found this circuit interesting. I will include it here as a possible self runner. The inventor claims that it produces its own power and feeds it back on a loop. I think that it deserves a try.
It is a joule thief coil circuit, divided onto two coils. I mean a two coil joule thief. Instead of the bifilar coil, it has the same connection with separated coils. It uses no battery is the claim the author has.

There is a lego version that says that it is not true.
Does anyone has done it?

Jesus

Jesus,
Just a thought: leave out the transistor and resistors, simply connect the two coils one to one with the right polarity and align the two coils in the right way (90 degrees +/- a correction to solve timing)

Question: what will happen when one uses different coil values ? Nice puzzle...... ;D

Such a construction starts to look like a coil version of the WipMag motor by the way  ;D
Maybe we should start a separate discussion thread on this
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 12:37:07 PM
Jesus,
Just a thought: leave out the transistor and resistors, simply connect the two coils one to one with the right polarity and align the two coils in the right way (90 degrees +/- a correction to solve timing)

Question: what will happen when one uses different coil values ? Nice puzzle...... ;D

Such a construction starts to look like a coil version of the WipMag motor by the way  ;D
Maybe we should start a separate discussion thread on this

Thank you @robbie47.

There is a topic about this already!

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6829.0

There is one member at the end called @vince that did one without the resistors, only the transistor. He needs our help. Lets see if we can help him with positive counseling and ideas to see if we can solve the problem that the coils does not generate enough voltage and current to activate the transistor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 01:06:26 PM
@all

There is a problem with my 1.5v runner and it is that the circuit charges the batteries, but the batteries charged by it cannot be put to work. I mean if you want to run something with it the batteries fail and loose the voltage.
If you check them with a meter after the test, they have good voltage though.

That is why I am exploring with other circuits and with the magnetic loops.
If I can find the answer for my circuit problem, I will post it for everybody to benefit from it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on February 24, 2009, 02:03:22 PM

Sorry you've suffered a setback jesus...I was afraid of that, as that is what happened to my little charging circuit of last year.

Maybe you could still get some mileage out of the circuit if you substituted the falsely charged battery with a joule thief ?

Best of luck.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 24, 2009, 03:39:54 PM
Hmm... Jesus, perhaps you are experiencing effects from
what Bearden referred to as "4-space Dirac sea hole current",
also referred to by Bedini as "negative energy spike"?
In his book "Energy from the Vacuum" Bearden describes this
"negative energy" as actual electron deficiencies in the Dirac sea,
somewhat like the electron deficiencies aka "holes" in classic
semiconductor theory.
According to Beardens theory, such "Dirac sea holes" do
attract electrons as if they were normal "holes" in the conductor,
but instead of "holes" in the conductor they are "holes" in spacetime
and evaporate soon after the negative energy spike was collected.
They also annihilate when they come in contact with real electrons,
destroying the electrical charges and "the dipole" as Bearden calls it.
So if a setup produces such "negative energy spikes", this
negative energy can be utilised as positive potential pulses, but it
should not be used directly as such.
Rather, Bearden offers a solution where a capacitor is used to temporarily
store the positive potential spike, at which time the positive potential
will electrostatically induce a negative charge on the secondary capacitor
plate. Soon after this, the positive potential will evaporate back into 4D space
and this will also release the electrons that have accumulated on the secondary
plate.
By using two capacitors and a rectifying diode bridge, we can seperate the
electron flow which we want to tap for output from the pulses of negative
energy that we can't use as real current, while maintaining this capacitive
coupling, and utilising the pulse nature of the negative energy spikes to
power the "electron pump" (= rectifier bridge).
This is what you see Bedini do in just about every motor/charger too;
he just about always uses such a setup to "collect the radiant energy".

So perhaps you could try implementing such a negative energy "rectifier"?
Perhaps that would allow you to actually fill the batteries with real electrons
and not a temporary, unstable, quasi-4D charge that appears to disappear
when you hook up circuits that need real electrons to flow...?

I'm just thinking aloud, hoping that it is of some help here... ;)

regards,
Koen
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 04:21:15 PM
...
By using two capacitors and a rectifying diode bridge, we can seperate the
electron flow which we want to tap for output from the pulses of negative
energy that we can't use as real current, while maintaining this capacitive
coupling, and utilising the pulse nature of the negative energy spikes to
power the "electron pump" (= rectifier bridge).
This is what you see Bedini do in just about every motor/charger too;
he just about always uses such a setup to "collect the radiant energy".

So perhaps you could try implementing such a negative energy "rectifier"?
Perhaps that would allow you to actually fill the batteries with real electrons
and not a temporary, unstable, quasi-4D charge that appears to disappear
when you hook up circuits that need real electrons to flow...?

I'm just thinking aloud, hoping that it is of some help here... ;)

regards,
Koen

Thanks @koen1 !

That sound very interesting.

I have a problem with the instructions in words. To understand something well, I need a schematic. Do you have any schematic that shows the two capacitors connected to the rectifier?
I would appreciate it very much.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 04:23:30 PM
Sorry you've suffered a setback jesus...I was afraid of that, as that is what happened to my little charging circuit of last year.

Maybe you could still get some mileage out of the circuit if you substituted the falsely charged battery with a joule thief ?

Best of luck.

Regards...



Sorry. I did not see this one.

You mean to use 2 joule thieves. One feeding the other in series?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Koen1 on February 24, 2009, 06:18:33 PM
@Jesus:

Ok, I shall try to make it clear. It is actually quite simple, but here's a little picture.
It was ripped from a rough schematic, so it doesn't look very pretty. ;)

I have put the letters A,B,C and D in the pic for clarity.
Let's say the output wires are connected to the caps at points A and C.
Let's say the "negative energy" positive potential spike arrives at A.
Now that cap's secondary plate, B, will "feel" the positive potential
and it will accumulate negative potential in the form of electrons that
are pulled from the rectifier bridge. This causes that same number or electrons
to flow through the rectifier and this is a real electron flow and can
be used as such.
This will also cause the plate D to lose electrons, becoming positively charged
in respect to C, and C will accumulate electrons from the main circuit.
When the "negative energy" positive potential on plate A evaporates back
into spacetime, the electrons on plate B no longer "feel" the electrostatic
attraction, and "lose their grip" on the plate, they start to leave the plate
and flow back into the rectifier circuit.
With each "stroke" of this "electron pump", that is, with each positive potential spike,
electrons are "sucked into" plate B and when the positive spike has gone,
they are released again. This basically "pumps" the elecrons around the
DC circuit that consists of the rectifier bridge's positive and negative wire terminals.

It is basically identical to using normal (non-4D, not negative energy but rather the normal
absence of energy that is normal "holes") positive potential in such a pulsed capacitive
coupling with a rectifier bridge, the only real difference is the peculiar form of potential
that is "radiant energy" or "negative energy" or "Dirac sea holes".
Plus of course that, according to Bearden, just about every steep voltage gradient will
cause a brief moment in which the symmetry of space, time and energy is broken
and the negative energy pulse lags behind the positive energy pulse somewhat, just
long enough to be used to power such a rectifier bridge.
And that is then just extra output energy.

Sorry for the text again... Hope it is clear?
If not, you can always send me a pm with specific questions. :)

Kind regards,
Koen

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 08:42:02 PM
@koen1

Can two number 104 ceramic capacitors be used?
Or the capacitors have to be with big capacitance and electrolitic?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: giantkiller on February 24, 2009, 10:11:38 PM
@all

There is a problem with my 1.5v runner and it is that the circuit charges the batteries, but the batteries charged by it cannot be put to work. I mean if you want to run something with it the batteries fail and loose the voltage.
If you check them with a meter after the test, they have good voltage though.

That is why I am exploring with other circuits and with the magnetic loops.
If I can find the answer for my circuit problem, I will post it for everybody to benefit from it.

Jesus

Now that you have opened the door and peeked in you must enter the space which invites with open arms.

Not too many of us here have gotten the RE generation. This why those that have not built cannot say.

You now have what Tesla achieved and reported in numerious patents and fashions. Keep on pushin'.

The standard electronics and physics learning has an idea what this frontier holds but no idea as what the key of the RE from BEMF from Resonance holds.

I followed what Tesla's patent stated with standard learning. I had no idea the eruptions of energy that would spew from simple copper windings. I, at no time, looked at what Telsa did with trepidation, fear, misunderstanding or prejudice.
What you did was good. Use that talent that is your gift and excel. After I got what I didn't expect I then went on a new journey to search for answers that the standards have no clue about and that happens after the Eureka moment. Now you can look at the world with a different eye that not too many men see through.

For those who haven't built yet I encourage you to do so. Otherwise your bus ride stops just short of the finish line. Like here.

Take this escapade here and apply it to Timothy Trapp. His configuration is a variation of the Ionizer with a motor in it. Doesn't certain Tesla coils have a rotary spark gap? How's that for a treat?

Now ya'll can stop wadin' in the shallows and hit the white water.

--giantkiller. There are no failures. Only experiences. Make them great and hold them dearly.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 24, 2009, 11:45:26 PM
Now that you have opened the door and peeked in you must enter the space which invites with open arms.

Not too many of us here have gotten the RE generation. This why those that have not built cannot say.

You now have what Tesla achieved and reported in numerious patents and fashions. Keep on pushin'.

The standard electronics and physics learning has an idea what this frontier holds but no idea as what the key of the RE from BEMF from Resonance holds.

I followed what Tesla's patent stated with standard learning. I had no idea the eruptions of energy that would spew from simple copper windings. I, at no time, looked at what Telsa did with trepidation, fear, misunderstanding or prejudice.
What you did was good. Use that talent that is your gift and excel. After I got what I didn't expect I then went on a new journey to search for answers that the standards have no clue about and that happens after the Eureka moment. Now you can look at the world with a different eye that not too many men see through.

For those who haven't built yet I encourage you to do so. Otherwise your bus ride stops just short of the finish line. Like here.

Take this escapade here and apply it to Timothy Trapp. His configuration is a variation of the Ionizer with a motor in it. Doesn't certain Tesla coils have a rotary spark gap? How's that for a treat?

Now ya'll can stop wadin' in the shallows and hit the white water.

--giantkiller. There are no failures. Only experiences. Make them great and hold them dearly.

Thanks @giantkiller !

Those words are a little out of my league and difficult to understand, but comming from you, I know that it is something good.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 25, 2009, 03:17:38 PM
@all

You all know that my drive is the feedback to the source.

There is one diagram made by @thedaftman that he shares with everybody about a possible selfrunner.

Selfrunner means to me that it gives feedback to the source, so it belongs on this thread too.

I posted my version of it back on this thread pages. But this one looks better!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 25, 2009, 11:01:09 PM
Hi,

If you spread 7 coils with (360o / 7)o apart, you will get less cogging, and smoother run of the rotor as the 8 mangets on the disc will never pass all coils at the same time. Then you can also let all the coils be connected in series electrically, so you need only one rectifier.

I can make a drawing. But it's late now so I will see if I can do that tomorrow some time.

br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 25, 2009, 11:21:32 PM
Hi,

If you spread 7 coils with (360o / 7)o apart, you will get less cogging, and smoother run of the rotor as the 8 mangets on the disc will never pass all coils at the same time. Then you can also let all the coils be connected in series electrically, so you need only one rectifier.

I can make a drawing. But it's late now so I will see if I can do that tomorrow some time.

br.

Vidar

Thank you @lowq
You are welcome!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Low-Q on February 26, 2009, 02:11:03 PM
A setup like this:

It is not as I previously said, but the main thing is to connect the coils in series. If you have the same timing on the coils, the voltage peak will be greater compared to the loss in the rectifier. This will enhance the efficiency related to voltage - so to speak. But remember that the current flowing through the coils will counterforce the rotation as you are trying to run something with this generator - according to Lenz law. This something is the motor running the flywheel, so the motor will get feedback from the coils, so the break will be reduced. The question is now: How much break is it compared to the energy supplied from the coils to the motor? If the motor determind this energy amount, as it is actually the motor that is supposed to run the flywheel, it is naturally to think that the losses through the coils, rectifier, friction and so on, will eventually halt the system. You never know before you try :)

Br.

Vidar
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 26, 2009, 02:26:18 PM
A setup like this:

It is not as I previously said, but the main thing is to connect the coils in series. If you have th same timing on the coils, the voltage peak will be greater compared to the loss in the rectifier. This will enhance the efficiency related to voltage - so to speak.


That is a good possibility!
My question is: Will it not generate too much high voltage for just one rectifier to handle it?
I mean each coil in series could amplify the previous voltage.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on February 26, 2009, 11:00:26 PM
@all

I personally think that only one bridge won't work, because the voltage has to go trough the other coils , and that will create back push in the other coils.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 26, 2009, 11:28:39 PM
@all

I personally think that only one bridge won't work, because the voltage has to go trough the other coils , and that will create back push in the other coils.

Thank you @mk1 !

I thought that the rectifier was going to be blown up.
But maybe it will not develop so much high voltage at all.
The only way to know is to build one and experiment with it.

For me it is too expensive now.

By the way, did I mention that the source batteries used to run my pulse motor became almost completetely depleted of any voltage reading after standing unused for a while?

One of them reads .01 volt the other one reads .36 and does not accept any recharging, but if you connect it to the toroid with a led and place another damaged battery parallel for some seconds and retire this second battery, the original battery works for about 5 minutes and dies again.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on February 27, 2009, 05:34:42 AM
@plengo

I have to get some courage to disconnect the charging batteries from the circuit and take some photos. I am afraid that the motor stop and never again work. As the fan charger I built last year.

When I got the courage to stop the pulse motor I will take some photos. Or wait till I can buy some new batteries and leave that motor running without disturbing it.

It is that is so fulfilling to see the motor with the charging batteries slowly fluctuating between 4.43 volts and 4.49 volts while keeping the source parallel batteries fluctuating between .35 volts and .36 volts.

On the meantime be pleased with this schematic with the charging batteries on their right place.

By the way, the photo maybe will not be that sophisticated, it is the same motor with some changes on it.

I will read the camera instructions to see if it can be used with the computer to take photos without having to buy a new pack of batteries. 

Thank you to all well wishers !!!

Jesus
Nieves Can you try a simple experiment . Place a capacitor across your charging batteries . parallel to them . this should increase the current from the bemf .
Al
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: multiuser on February 27, 2009, 09:50:21 AM
hello friends!

i think i have a better way, to get (3 to 5 times) more power from the small coils!

we should think to a function of a transformer; transformers have a efficiency > 95% (often).
but a transformer use 50 times per second a field whos changed - N . S . N . S.
in the drawings on the top postings, the coils use just one pole - from the magnetes on the disk / rotor. THIS is inefficient!

you have to use diametral magnetes!! so you have two poles!

use coils from a relay, use the U ironcore!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 27, 2009, 12:06:41 PM
Nieves Can you try a simple experiment . Place a capacitor across your charging batteries . parallel to them . this should increase the current from the bemf .
Al

I did it already.
I made the LED suggested circuit and the batteries stopped charging at 2.38v. I tried to make the camera work with those batteries and they only turn on the camera for one or two seconds and then it turns off. But this time you can repeat the turning on and itself turning off at leas three times.

The running battery with the special led feedback stopped working. If you touch the battery led with the other batteries wire for just a second it start the special led again for about 5 minutes and then dies. Even though the voltage of the source battery is the same as yesterday (0.48v).

This is crazy and tiresome.

I will change the circuit again to have 2 toroids instead of one toroid with a secondary. One toroid will exclusively be the source with the 0.48v battery. The other toroid will be the battery charger or the pulse motor driver.

I repent of have stopped the motor when it was working and do some other experiments just to prove that it was keeping itself running.

But a motor for to be useful, it needs to be able to be turned on and off, disassembled and assembled and work each time.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 27, 2009, 12:21:03 PM
hello friends!

i think i have a better way, to get (3 to 5 times) more power from the small coils!

we should think to a function of a transformer; transformers have a efficiency > 95% (often).
but a transformer use 50 times per second a field whos changed - N . S . N . S.
in the drawings on the top postings, the coils use just one pole - from the magnetes on the disk / rotor. THIS is inefficient!

you have to use diametral magnetes!! so you have two poles!

use coils from a relay, use the U ironcore!

Thank you @multiuser !
There is also one coil configuration that uses the U shape but without the iron core.
This is the link. Maybe you can mix the ideas and widen your knowledge in order to attain a succesful self running generator.
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6727.0
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 27, 2009, 12:38:13 PM
@all

I have been posting some information that will be useful on the long run as reference. Here is a composition of the oscillators using a 555 IC.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: newton2 on March 02, 2009, 05:57:53 PM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator of This The Honourable OU-Forum !
I am NOT a Physics Leviathan arising with my Elder Times Chalk-board & Formulas Pergament Rolls for to to shout against New Times Novel Ideas..........instead I really aim for to EN-courage about various Aspects of Researching in OU !!

Apropos about Electronics IC-"Timers" : the Elder Bipolar Based "555" is NOT "equivalent" in ALL Properties to the Newer MosFet-Based 7555........!!(Also when the duo Timer , the Quadro-Timer-Layouts,etc)

The suggested Circuit in Primo These Discussions-Rounds : 1.5 volts running......is a Common Blocking-Oscillator (2N4401) Stepping-UP-voltage as delivering through rather small-currents/voltages 1N60 to the "STEP/PULSE/SERVO-Motor"-Circuits-Part (2N2222) a suitable "running-voltages-supply"......the 2N2222-Circuits-Part THEN just is about a"rotating"-Permanentes-Magnetes-Rod (as simplified) when starting "turning" around makes a SELF-on-off-steering-action per "feedback"-winding , while "power-feeding"-winding "delivers" the required "pulsed" H-field "automatically" synchronized to the Present Times Rod´s Positions to the Windings........!!
IF NOT THE "PULSE-MOTOR" IS MOST ESPECIALLY DESIGNED , THEN THE ALL OF CIRCUITS-PARTS "HARDLY" MIGHT DELIVER OU........THOUGH IS IT AT ALL CLAIMED IN THE TOPIC AND THE REPLIES TEXTES TO COULD DELIVER OU  !!
Of course shall also such suggested Ideas be discussed about like i.e. the suggested IDewa of the Topic !
THanks about the suggested Idea brought for Discussions !
Might there kindly again be hinted about , that the VERY "OU-Action" might "have" to be about ESPECIALLY THEIRIZED/LAYOUT-ed  IR-REGULAR Transformers , Electro-Motors / Electro-GEnerators , etc.........!!

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and fruitfull OU-researchings-Results , for You All DO participate in & contribute so hardlabored to the Honoured Course of OU  !!


Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 04, 2009, 01:08:31 PM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator of This The Honourable OU-Forum !
I am NOT a Physics Leviathan arising with my Elder Times Chalk-board & Formulas Pergament Rolls for to to shout against New Times Novel Ideas..........instead I really aim for to EN-courage about various Aspects of Researching in OU !!

Apropos about Electronics IC-"Timers" : the Elder Bipolar Based "555" is NOT "equivalent" in ALL Properties to the Newer MosFet-Based 7555........!!(Also when the duo Timer , the Quadro-Timer-Layouts,etc)

The suggested Circuit in Primo These Discussions-Rounds : 1.5 volts running......is a Common Blocking-Oscillator (2N4401) Stepping-UP-voltage as delivering through rather small-currents/voltages 1N60 to the "STEP/PULSE/SERVO-Motor"-Circuits-Part (2N2222) a suitable "running-voltages-supply"......the 2N2222-Circuits-Part THEN just is about a"rotating"-Permanentes-Magnetes-Rod (as simplified) when starting "turning" around makes a SELF-on-off-steering-action per "feedback"-winding , while "power-feeding"-winding "delivers" the required "pulsed" H-field "automatically" synchronized to the Present Times Rod´s Positions to the Windings........!!
IF NOT THE "PULSE-MOTOR" IS MOST ESPECIALLY DESIGNED , THEN THE ALL OF CIRCUITS-PARTS "HARDLY" MIGHT DELIVER OU........THOUGH IS IT AT ALL CLAIMED IN THE TOPIC AND THE REPLIES TEXTES TO COULD DELIVER OU  !!
Of course shall also such suggested Ideas be discussed about like i.e. the suggested IDewa of the Topic !
THanks about the suggested Idea brought for Discussions !
Might there kindly again be hinted about , that the VERY "OU-Action" might "have" to be about ESPECIALLY THEIRIZED/LAYOUT-ed  IR-REGULAR Transformers , Electro-Motors / Electro-GEnerators , etc.........!!

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and fruitfull OU-researchings-Results , for You All DO participate in & contribute so hardlabored to the Honoured Course of OU  !!


First I wish to say that my machine first lost internet connection, Then began saying when rebooted that the hard disk did not exist.
Then it began to sound a beep at regular intervals, after a while it began to sound a continuous beep and that was it for the machine.

It took me a long time to save the harddisk's information with another machine and to install another motherboard. I must mention here that for to get the internet working again was a real hard job. After I got the internet working I had to download the motherboard drivers and they were incomplete. The motherboard is a used motherboard I bougth long time ago on ebay.

I must now begin to read all the information that has been posted in all the threads I am following now and hope that my machine does not do the same thing again.

@newton2

Thank you! And
Welcome to the OU forum !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 06, 2009, 03:14:04 AM
@all

Forgive me for not being helping you lately. I have been having internet connection problems after the motherboard change.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 09, 2009, 12:56:45 AM
@all

Here is another circuit that I am testing for a feed back to the source. It makes the source battery to last longer,

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on March 09, 2009, 08:21:16 PM
@all

Here is another circuit that I am testing for a feed back to the source. It makes the source battery to last longer,

Jesus

Hi Nievesoliveras what's 7T on coils ?
Thanks for your circuits.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: rensseak on March 09, 2009, 08:31:35 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras what's 7T on coils ?
Thanks for your circuits.



7 T-urns? ::)
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 09, 2009, 08:44:56 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras what's 7T on coils ?
Thanks for your circuits.



7 T-urns? ::)

Yes it is 7 turns bifilar of 22awg wire

Jesus

Edit:

Just recheck the base resistor value for your specific toroid. Mine worked best with 10k resistor.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 10, 2009, 03:24:15 PM
@all

I have found some information about a self running motor called the Minato motor.  As always happen, there is some mistery about how to do it.

Has anybody done it?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: robbie47 on March 10, 2009, 03:31:31 PM
@jesus,
It would be better to start a separate topic on this.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Thaelin on March 10, 2009, 08:31:02 PM
Hi Jesus:
    You may wish to look into the three phase wind gen head setups. I have a small one
that has six coils and eight magnets set up in star config. That makes two coils in series
per phase with one end of each set terminated together. The remaining ends go to a
three phase diode set up made up of one amp diodes. Does fairly good considering what
it is. Put a cap on the output of the diodes and hook it up to a motor, you have the self run
setup. It may be a balancing act to get the right combo, but I think that will do better.

   Using this setup you will eliminate a lot of the cogging effect. Take a piece of paper and
draw out the coils vs magnets and you can see how they interact with each other. Just
remember to put the magnets NSNSNSNS .

thay
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on March 10, 2009, 09:45:15 PM
@all

Here is another circuit that I am testing for a feed back to the source. It makes the source battery to last longer,

Jesus

Hi Nievesoliveras did you check that circuit that you've said so that I can replicate it?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 11, 2009, 04:01:33 PM
@jesus,
It would be better to start a separate topic on this.

Thank you @robbie47

I think that I will do that as soon as my internet connection gets stable. It is a little crazy. It works when it wants to. It is not reliable at this time.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 11, 2009, 08:12:57 PM
Hi Jesus:
    You may wish to look into the three phase wind gen head setups. I have a small one
that has six coils and eight magnets set up in star config. That makes two coils in series
per phase with one end of each set terminated together. The remaining ends go to a
three phase diode set up made up of one amp diodes. Does fairly good considering what
it is. Put a cap on the output of the diodes and hook it up to a motor, you have the self run
setup. It may be a balancing act to get the right combo, but I think that will do better.

   Using this setup you will eliminate a lot of the cogging effect. Take a piece of paper and
draw out the coils vs magnets and you can see how they interact with each other. Just
remember to put the magnets NSNSNSNS .

thay


Thank you @thaelin

Could you make a rough sketch of what you propose?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 11, 2009, 08:14:16 PM
Hi Nievesoliveras did you check that circuit that you've said so that I can replicate it?
Thanks

Yes @guruji

I tested the circuit and it last longer than a regular one.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 13, 2009, 11:43:00 PM
@all

I do need to reread this whole thread again in order to make a decision on what direction to take from here.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 14, 2009, 08:02:54 AM
Jesus:

You are getting close.  You will get there.  Take a few days break from your work and come back with a fresh angle.  It usually works for me.  I suddenly wake up in the middle of the night with the answer only after I stop looking so hard for it.

I have said this elsewhere but, I think the answer lies in a combination of Newman, Bedini, Joule Thief, Tesla, Stubblefield and possibly a few other type devices.  It is the correct combination that will do it.  That is why I have been systematically learning all of these technologies. (or trying to)  Oh yes, and the answer will also involve supercaps.  Trust me on this because I don't know enough to be able to explain why at the moment.  Keep up your wonderful research Jesus.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 14, 2009, 09:05:39 AM
@nievesoliveras,

It appears that you have a radial array of egg-shaped coils.

If each coil were to emit electromagnetic waves, these waves would be distorted.  Although this may not be of your design or direction; it may be interesting to note an idea I posted a few weeks ago.  I'll quote myself from another thread here, and you can make what you will of it.  This passage is alluding to resonance and wind chimes.

Quote
The tuning forks would show their potential if hung like wind chimes, and allowed to be free in the air, at this point both physical and oscillatory effect could be observed.  In this instance, the transference would be at it's least - at least in the realm of gravity, doing this on the space station may yield entirely different results requiring a different setup all together.

If you have a polar array of coils, each emitting pulses of electromagnetic radiation ( RF, or AM waves, etc. ) ..their fields will be both constructive and destructive in certain places.  Walter Lewin of MIT gives a good explanation of nodal lines ( hyperbolic destructive waveforms ) in his 33rd video lecture on electricity and magnetism at 11 minutes and 30 seconds into the video. ..if you would like to see the math, just watch the beginning of the lecture.  Here's a link:  http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02Electricity-and-MagnetismSpring2002/VideoAndCaptions/detail/embed33.htm (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02Electricity-and-MagnetismSpring2002/VideoAndCaptions/detail/embed33.htm)

So if you read the previous quote, and then watch the video, disregard the quote and think about this...

If you place your coils in particular places and induce resonance - there will be physical locations where any pickup coils will be more apt to receive constructive waves and some places more apt to be null.  In these circumstances, the number of coils adds to the chaos in the local magnetic field.

It will be as the thread title suggests: feedback to source - but it may be destructive.  After reading back a little in the thread, it looks like you're trying to create a pulse stepper motor.  My post may be of little relevance.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: AhuraMazda on March 14, 2009, 01:18:55 PM
Jadaro,
Do you mean something like this?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6967.msg163479#msg163479

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 14, 2009, 07:44:16 PM
Jadaro,
Do you mean something like this?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6967.msg163479#msg163479



Right, it's something I've been pondering after working with the joule thief circuit.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 14, 2009, 07:48:32 PM
Jesus:

You are getting close.  You will get there.  Take a few days break from your work and come back with a fresh angle.  It usually works for me.  I suddenly wake up in the middle of the night with the answer only after I stop looking so hard for it.

I have said this elsewhere but, I think the answer lies in a combination of Newman, Bedini, Joule Thief, Tesla, Stubblefield and possibly a few other type devices.  It is the correct combination that will do it.  That is why I have been systematically learning all of these technologies. (or trying to)  Oh yes, and the answer will also involve supercaps.  Trust me on this because I don't know enough to be able to explain why at the moment.  Keep up your wonderful research Jesus.

Bill

Thank you @pirate!
You always give positive advice.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 14, 2009, 07:57:16 PM
@nievesoliveras,

It appears that you have a radial array of egg-shaped coils.

If each coil were to emit electromagnetic waves, these waves would be distorted.  Although this may not be of your design or direction; it may be interesting to note an idea I posted a few weeks ago.  I'll quote myself from another thread here, and you can make what you will of it.  This passage is alluding to resonance and wind chimes.

If you have a polar array of coils, each emitting pulses of electromagnetic radiation ( RF, or AM waves, etc. ) ..their fields will be both constructive and destructive in certain places.  Walter Lewin of MIT gives a good explanation of nodal lines ( hyperbolic destructive waveforms ) in his 33rd video lecture on electricity and magnetism at 11 minutes and 30 seconds into the video. ..if you would like to see the math, just watch the beginning of the lecture.  Here's a link:  http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02Electricity-and-MagnetismSpring2002/VideoAndCaptions/detail/embed33.htm (http://ocw.mit.edu/OcwWeb/Physics/8-02Electricity-and-MagnetismSpring2002/VideoAndCaptions/detail/embed33.htm)

So if you read the previous quote, and then watch the video, disregard the quote and think about this...

If you place your coils in particular places and induce resonance - there will be physical locations where any pickup coils will be more apt to receive constructive waves and some places more apt to be null.  In these circumstances, the number of coils adds to the chaos in the local magnetic field.

It will be as the thread title suggests: feedback to source - but it may be destructive.  After reading back a little in the thread, it looks like you're trying to create a pulse stepper motor.  My post may be of little relevance.


Thank you @jadaro

That posted photo is not my project, I found it last year and used it to ask a question.
At this moment almost all my projects do not want to work for some unknown reason. My toroids quit working. I will take @pirate's advice and take a rest from my work for a few days.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 14, 2009, 08:06:20 PM
Jadaro,
Do you mean something like this?

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6967.msg163479#msg163479



Thank you @ahuramazda!

Those coil that @sirhoax presented on that video give inspiration.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 14, 2009, 08:18:20 PM
Right, it's something I've been pondering after working with the joule thief circuit.

Thank you @jadaro
I bought a small wind turbine kit a while ago and there was no wind to make it run so I began this search. Also I used the wind turbine's stator with a Bedini motor and an alternator rectifier.
The wind turbine use to give 3volts with a fan blowing at it. Its stator with the Bedini motor running it, use to give 5volts.

I tried to make it give 12volts by building a new stator following the same pattern of the other and it was very difficult to not break it while trying to wind the amount of wire found to be needed by a formula.

By the way my brother Franky built a wind turbine from scratch and he claims that it is working perfectly well on his house backyard. I have not seen it. But I believe him because he is a truthful person.

The point is that with a joule thief pulse motor I get more voltage out than with the other two. And if I get to understand well the @mk1 toroid idea and get it to work, he claims that it gives more than 100volts. So I think that that must be the direction to take and mix it with all the other things as @pirate stated on his post.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: lumen on March 15, 2009, 04:40:04 AM

 Sketch of how to build you own over-unity generator.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 15, 2009, 03:11:30 PM
Sketch of how to build you own over-unity generator.


Thank you @lumen!

That is a good idea. But I cant see the point.
Could you be more specific?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 15, 2009, 03:16:00 PM
@all

You know that my goal still is the feedback to the source.
I saw two photos of a homemade 1N34 replacement called the cat whisker.

I thought that that, if it works according as stated, could be used to aid the source at keeping charged.

The photos follow:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 15, 2009, 03:23:24 PM
@all

I replicated the device and my question is:
Which side is the cathode?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: lumen on March 15, 2009, 03:35:08 PM
I suppose I should give a little better description of how this works.

This is the process:
1: Magnet approaches iron core (no resistance because the diode to the load allows no load on the coil in that direction)
2: Magnet passes coil to center of iron core where the polarity change in the iron core starts and the voltage in the coil changes direction.
3: With no load on coil the iron fully changes polarity and causes  an attraction as it leaves the iron ( the same pull as when it entered the iron)
4: With load on the coil the polarity change is resisted (lenz law) and the iron does not change polarity fully allowing the magnet to leave the iron with less force that when it entered the iron.

This is true!

It is actually simple to understand once you see it.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 15, 2009, 03:46:52 PM
I suppose I should give a little better description of how this works.

This is the process:
1: Magnet approaches iron core (no resistance because the diode to the load allows no load on the coil in that direction)
2: Magnet passes coil to center of iron core where the polarity change in the iron core starts and the voltage in the coil changes direction.
3: With no load on coil the iron fully changes polarity and causes  an attraction as it leaves the iron ( the same pull as when it entered the iron)
4: With load on the coil the polarity change is resisted (lenz law) and the iron does not change polarity fully allowing the magnet to leave the iron with less force that when it entered the iron.

This is true!

It is actually simple to understand once you see it.


That explanation sounds correct, but only testing it will have the last word on it.
Keep experimenting with it and keep us informed of the results you get with your idea.
If comes out that your idea is the way to go and get the feedback needed I will follow it.

Now I am trying to get energy from the air and use it somehow to aid the joule thief pulse motor to stay alive until the battery fails and die.
Also the results I will have must be disassembled and reassembled again and still do the same results. It must be like that in order that the other members can replicate it with the same results.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 16, 2009, 06:08:06 PM
@all

According to this schematic I found on a search. The blade occupies the place of the galena rock. So it is very possible that the blade goes on the direction depicted here.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 16, 2009, 06:35:01 PM
@ Jesus:

I have read somewhere that you need a special type (old style) earphone which works on low input.  Something about the way they used to make them works well with these units.  As I said, I don't know for sure, just read it.

Here is a link to my Bedini replication on youtube.  It is not feedback to source.....yet, but I am going to work on that now that it is up and running.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRO8Pdh35bA

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 16, 2009, 06:37:49 PM
Jesus:

Here is a link to a site where I read about the pizo earphones being required.

http://sci-toys.com/scitoys/scitoys/radio/homemade_radio.html

This guy has a great site and once you are there on the link page I sent you to, look around.  He has many working designs for crystal radios as well as other cool projects.  I hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 16, 2009, 06:57:15 PM
Thank you @pirate !

I saw your video and the motor while is spinning gives the sensation that it is not moving at all.
Nice job!!!

Thank you for the radio link.

On the Radio Shack electronic lab I have, there is an earphone included that will be used to build some kind of ant hearing device or something. That earphone is just as the one needed for the crystal radio.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 16, 2009, 07:12:19 PM
@pirate

When I visited the radio link, I noticed that this was the site where I took the first blade diode from. I had lost the link. Thank you for giving it back to me.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 16, 2009, 09:25:33 PM
What you are looking for is a high impedance earphone.  The one in an old telephone will work just as well.  If you're creative enough, you can just plug the telephone into the circuit.  It needs to be one without battery - obviously the cordless ones won't work for this either.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 17, 2009, 02:56:53 AM
What you are looking for is a high impedance earphone.  The one in an old telephone will work just as well.  If you're creative enough, you can just plug the telephone into the circuit.  It needs to be one without battery - obviously the cordless ones won't work for this either.

Thank you @jadaro !

I have been having problems with some experiments I am doing. They work one time, then I move or touch something and I have a  big struggle trying to make it to work again.

On electronics, everything seems to be so delicate that I have damaged a lot of parts doing experiments.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 17, 2009, 03:01:25 AM
@all

In the meantime I get something working without getting it broken somehow, I have something
for all free energy lovers and experimenters.

A free vertical wind turbine presentation. Courtesy of MattBlytheTheOne!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1mxR4_jIkA&feature=rec-r2-sdig&et=1237052704.16

And the link for the file on How to do a Vertical windturbine pdf.
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kinetic-arts/sculpture/gallery6/WindTurbines.pdf

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 20, 2009, 03:43:59 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QznwV4SzYho

My latest video on my Bedini replication using 2 lead acid batteries this time.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 20, 2009, 10:31:20 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QznwV4SzYho

My latest video on my Bedini replication using 2 lead acid batteries this time.

Bill

Thank you @pirate.
You are now becoming an expert on pulse motors.
Good luck!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: newton2 on March 21, 2009, 11:30:59 AM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator and The Anonymous Readers of This The Honourable OU-Forum !
How remarkable...!! An Elder Times "Manual-TouchPoints-Crystal-Detectors"-RADIO-Receiver-DIAGRAM including "Great" LW/MW-Tubular-"Air"-Cores-Wound-Coils plus an "Adjustable" HF-Capacitor plus "Coils-Outlets"-Points for BEST Antenna/Aerial-Impedances-Matches to LC-Receiving-Q-resonances........and a HIGH-Impedance "Ear-Phone"......OK also to mention about......well,quite un-modestly I DO know "lots" about Elder Times and Newer Times nearly allsorts of "Radio-Communications/Receiving"-Methods per "Electronics" and per "selfmade nearly Electronics".....I could mention about i.e. Super-Reg , about especial Modulations-Methods , "SuperDyne" Receiver ,
"tubes" and point-contact-Transistors in "Recievers" , "weird" Antennas/Aerials , the "LOWFER"-Organization" , the "Radio-Amateurs"-Organizations, Mechanically Rotating LW-Transmitters of Primo 1900-Years....etc......have nice Days of fruitfull Experimentings about such Themes...for still are UN-discovered several many Aspects/Metods of such !!
WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and Weekend ; and for Whom IT relates : Happy Easter !
And my kind Thanks about Your All important interesting Contributions to & Participations in The Honourable Course of OU !
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 21, 2009, 02:00:06 PM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator and The Anonymous Readers of This The Honourable OU-Forum !
How remarkable...!! An Elder Times "Manual-TouchPoints-Crystal-Detectors"-RADIO-Receiver-DIAGRAM including "Great" LW/MW-Tubular-"Air"-Cores-Wound-Coils plus an "Adjustable" HF-Capacitor plus "Coils-Outlets"-Points for BEST Antenna/Aerial-Impedances-Matches to LC-Receiving-Q-resonances........and a HIGH-Impedance "Ear-Phone"......OK also to mention about......well,quite un-modestly I DO know "lots" about Elder Times and Newer Times nearly allsorts of "Radio-Communications/Receiving"-Methods per "Electronics" and per "selfmade nearly Electronics".....I could mention about i.e. Super-Reg , about especial Modulations-Methods , "SuperDyne" Receiver ,
"tubes" and point-contact-Transistors in "Recievers" , "weird" Antennas/Aerials , the "LOWFER"-Organization" , the "Radio-Amateurs"-Organizations, Mechanically Rotating LW-Transmitters of Primo 1900-Years....etc......have nice Days of fruitfull Experimentings about such Themes...for still are UN-discovered several many Aspects/Metods of such !!
WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and Weekend ; and for Whom IT relates : Happy Easter !
And my kind Thanks about Your All important interesting Contributions to & Participations in The Honourable Course of OU !

Thank you @newton2 !

I am trying to build a crystal radio and after I tune the strongest signal, I will try to use the energy produced to try to run the pulse motor with the assistance of a 1.5v battery. What I hope the crystal radio do is to assist on keeping the battery charged.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 21, 2009, 02:06:03 PM
@all

I finished the coil I am going to use today.
Now the next step will be to gather the knowledge and parts necessary to assemble it on the plastic piece that the whisker diode is on.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: newton2 on March 22, 2009, 11:04:08 AM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator and The Honoured Anonymous Readers of This The Honourable OU-Forum !

And my especial Hello to The Honoured Profile nievesoliver being so busy and so hardlaboring....!

Might I briefly kindly comment to the just-"above"-being Reply / some clear sharp photos plus text about "crystal-detector" meant as for adding charging to an Accu or to a Capacitor .....:
 might I kindly suppose  about , that what is meant  is to POWER-DETECT the VLF electromagnetical Radiations´ "Energy-Part" from the MOVING-ACCELERATED Permanent-Magnetical-ROD (as when turning very fast around axially mounted between the 2 Coils in the Original Diagram ...1.5 V Runner)...................YES, interesting Aspect about : could an especially shaped Permanent Magnetical Rod of "N H-Poles" eventually when being MUCH accelerated in surden "Ways" THÉN eventually OVERCOME/ALTER surden Force/CounterForce Circumstances about "Energy"......to briefly say:
PERHAPS SUCH AN ACCELERATED ROD MIGHT EMIT VLF-electromagnetical-"Energy" without
the "usual" Counterforces.......!!
YES.......there ARE surden possibilities when "having" accelerated "H-poles"...MORE than just if about OU.......perhaps also "some" about Faster-Than-LightSpeed-Actions...etc....(kind brief Reference to the Original 1800-Years Ether-Theses : Ether "just" about electro-STATICAL "Forces" and "Charges" as moving in Ether-Medium.......).....!
INTERESTING ASPECTS......!!

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and fruitfull Theoretical/Experimental Results !
And my kind Thanks about Your All hardlabored important Doings and Participations in & Supportings to The Honourable Course of OU  !!
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 22, 2009, 01:38:05 PM
Hello Honoured Profiles and The Honoured Administrator and The Honoured Anonymous Readers of This The Honourable OU-Forum !

And my especial Hello to The Honoured Profile nievesoliver being so busy and so hardlaboring....!

Might I briefly kindly comment to the just-"above"-being Reply / some clear sharp photos plus text about "crystal-detector" meant as for adding charging to an Accu or to a Capacitor .....:
 might I kindly suppose  about , that what is meant  is to POWER-DETECT the VLF electromagnetical Radiations´ "Energy-Part" from the MOVING-ACCELERATED Permanent-Magnetical-ROD (as when turning very fast around axially mounted between the 2 Coils in the Original Diagram ...1.5 V Runner)...................YES, interesting Aspect about : could an especially shaped Permanent Magnetical Rod of "N H-Poles" eventually when being MUCH accelerated in surden "Ways" THÉN eventually OVERCOME/ALTER surden Force/CounterForce Circumstances about "Energy"......to briefly say:
PERHAPS SUCH AN ACCELERATED ROD MIGHT EMIT VLF-electromagnetical-"Energy" without
the "usual" Counterforces.......!!
YES.......there ARE surden possibilities when "having" accelerated "H-poles"...MORE than just if about OU.......perhaps also "some" about Faster-Than-LightSpeed-Actions...etc....(kind brief Reference to the Original 1800-Years Ether-Theses : Ether "just" about electro-STATICAL "Forces" and "Charges" as moving in Ether-Medium.......).....!
INTERESTING ASPECTS......!!

WKR & have Yourselves a nice Day and fruitfull Theoretical/Experimental Results !
And my kind Thanks about Your All hardlabored important Doings and Participations in & Supportings to The Honourable Course of OU  !!

Thank you @newton2 !

It seems that I have got to a plateau, meaning that to get results is very hard. But I will not be intimidated by that.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 22, 2009, 01:41:37 PM
@ Jesus:

No, you won't be intimidated by that at all.  Heck, a plateau is just a resting place in between another breakthrough.  It will happen.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 22, 2009, 01:43:08 PM
@ Jesus:

No, you won't be intimidated by that at all.  Heck, a plateau is just a resting place in between another breakthrough.  It will happen.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 24, 2009, 01:01:33 PM
@all

It has been very difficult to connect and post. It seems that the forum has been very busy lately.

I finished the radio receiver. I used a combination of circuits knowledge and chose the best one for this project.
I have not been able to get any voltage from it without an antenna and ground connection.

So the next step is to build an antenna and a ground connection somehow.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 24, 2009, 11:25:31 PM
@ Jesus:

That is a nice, neat build you have got going on there.  Excellent craftsmanship but then, you always build nice stuff.  You may want to try an earth ground with this. (as opposed to using home water pipes which may, or may not be totally grounded, and also may carry stray noise from other circuits in the house.)  Gadgetmall is a radio guy, (Ham) I am sure he could help you with ideas on the antenna and ground.  Best of luck with it.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 24, 2009, 11:53:26 PM
@ Jesus:

That is a nice, neat build you have got going on there.  Excellent craftsmanship but then, you always build nice stuff.  You may want to try an earth ground with this. (as opposed to using home water pipes which may, or may not be totally grounded, and also may carry stray noise from other circuits in the house.)  Gadgetmall is a radio guy, (Ham) I am sure he could help you with ideas on the antenna and ground.  Best of luck with it.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

I will need to drill a hole on concrete to drive a ground through it and connect this receiver.
The antenna will be an isolated cable outside. Going from the window to the fence. It has to be isolated from the window and from the fence somehow.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 25, 2009, 12:15:50 AM
I would not leave that hooked up during any electrical storm activity...but then, I guess you already know this. Just wanted to mention it in case you didn't think about it.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Bob Smith on March 25, 2009, 03:08:43 AM
@ Jesus:
Please forgive me asking about what is perhaps obvious, but what type of diode are you using?   Germanium (uses much less voltage) or silicon?

Re grounding your set, I managed to run an insulated heavy gauge wire from the ground cable in my fuse panel to a setup I was playing with, and it seemed to do the trick. (I had considered drilling a hole thru the basement floor as well, but knew I'd eventually have to answer to the boss [my wife]).
Bob
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 25, 2009, 07:18:02 AM
A popular, yet equally effective remedy for the germanium diode is a Schottky diode - which has a voltage drop very similar to that of the germanium diodes.

I've found some Schottky's to have a voltage drop of just 0.211 volts.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 25, 2009, 02:52:05 PM
I would not leave that hooked up during any electrical storm activity...but then, I guess you already know this. Just wanted to mention it in case you didn't think about it.

Bill

Yes, I am aware of this. I will put a small gauge fuse to it so if there is an increase in current it will blow the fuse easily.
I should use a fuse on each connection, I mean the Antenna and Ground connections to be safe.
First I need to see if it works.

@ Jesus:
Please forgive me asking about what is perhaps obvious, but what type of diode are you using?   Germanium (uses much less voltage) or silicon?

Re grounding your set, I managed to run an insulated heavy gauge wire from the ground cable in my fuse panel to a setup I was playing with, and it seemed to do the trick. (I had considered drilling a hole thru the basement floor as well, but knew I'd eventually have to answer to the boss [my wife]).
Bob

Welcome @bob !
I could not get a real 1N34 germanium diode, the one that is world wide available is the 1N60. So I am trying a world war II  cat whisker diode that is made with a razor blade and a copper wire.

I cannot play with the fuse panel ground because it is not mine and if something gets damaged on it I have to deal with all the building neighbors. I need to check if the receptacles have the earth ground connected to them and maybe I can test the device with that gorund.

A popular, yet equally effective remedy for the germanium diode is a Schottky diode - which has a voltage drop very similar to that of the germanium diodes.

I've found some Schottky's to have a voltage drop of just 0.211 volts.

I have not tried the schottky diodes yet, but as soon as I can get them I will give them a try.

Thank you to all !
Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 25, 2009, 08:03:29 PM
@all

I made an antenna from the window to the fence with an insulated wire.
Then I connected the radio receiver to the antenna outside of the building.
I opened the old telephone installation and connected a wire to the ground connection.
Then I installed the earphone to the radio receiver and try to get something while moving the cat whisker.
I could not get a single sound!

I brought the DMM and tried to get any voltage reading and there was not even a volt on it.
I turnet the DMM dial to 200m DCV and it did not get anything. But when I disconnected the test lead the DMM showed 0.03 ? for a moment and then disappear. I did the same test several times with the same results.

I took out my other meter that its not digital and while having the earphone on my ear, tested all the connections.
While doing so, the earphone produced some sounds each time I connected the test leads.

There was no radio sound and no voltage at all.
I need to blue the blade and try again.
Then I will try with a 1N60.

If nothing good is showed by the DMM.
I will send for a schottky diode and try again.
If still nothing good happens, I will rebuild the old receiver I made last year and try with it and my new knowledge.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 26, 2009, 01:48:17 AM
The fence is grounded, it's probably acting like a Faraday wall or something.  You don't want to be connected to it.  Unless it's wood, then that point is moot.

Here's an Idea I had.  Not recommended for permanent setups.

Get a fishing pole, and take the hook off the end, attach a weight to it and cast it over a high limb of a tree ...then let the weight of the sinker bring it back down to earth.  Then attach an insulated wire to it, and draw the wire up - you now have an aerial which can be raised as high as the limb; it can later be taken down without being permanently in the tree.

You can then use this for your antenna.  You may just want to take your experiment outside.

Never really heard of wanting to get your line in the tree before have you?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 26, 2009, 02:51:20 AM
@ Jadaro:

That is a great idea, I may use that one myself.  Good thinking.

@ All:

Here is a video of my Bedini replication that I attempt to show the sounds of the rpm's through my stereo.  The thing I don't understand is that, I have a base resistor of like 460 ohms and two vr's of 5k each.  when I fire up the motor, the two vr's are closed down to their 0 point.  Once the motor accelerates, I can open up the primary resistor and it speeds up.  After a bit, I can then close the primary vr back to 0 and it goes into what I call...second gear, and really takes off.  then, I add some resistance on the primary vr and it goes even faster.  I have no idea why.

I am not attempting feedback to source yet so this is off-topic but, I would like to understand why this does this if anyone knows.  Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfprTzG5SY4

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 26, 2009, 06:13:38 AM
The fence is grounded, it's probably acting like a Faraday wall or something.  You don't want to be connected to it.  Unless it's wood, then that point is moot.

Here's an Idea I had.  Not recommended for permanent setups.

Get a fishing pole, and take the hook off the end, attach a weight to it and cast it over a high limb of a tree ...then let the weight of the sinker bring it back down to earth.  Then attach an insulated wire to it, and draw the wire up - you now have an aerial which can be raised as high as the limb; it can later be taken down without being permanently in the tree.

You can then use this for your antenna.  You may just want to take your experiment outside.

Never really heard of wanting to get your line in the tree before have you?

That idea is excellent, but I have no trees near my side of the building. I instead used an idea like the one on this graphic composition.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 26, 2009, 06:26:58 AM
@ Jadaro:

That is a great idea, I may use that one myself.  Good thinking.

@ All:

Here is a video of my Bedini replication that I attempt to show the sounds of the rpm's through my stereo.  The thing I don't understand is that, I have a base resistor of like 460 ohms and two vr's of 5k each.  when I fire up the motor, the two vr's are closed down to their 0 point.  Once the motor accelerates, I can open up the primary resistor and it speeds up.  After a bit, I can then close the primary vr back to 0 and it goes into what I call...second gear, and really takes off.  then, I add some resistance on the primary vr and it goes even faster.  I have no idea why.

I am not attempting feedback to source yet so this is off-topic but, I would like to understand why this does this if anyone knows.  Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfprTzG5SY4

Bill

I watched your new video and I think that what is happening is that your motor is a good flywheel. The combination on the rotor of magnets and bearings makes it to have a very good flow and when you take off the resistance it accelerates naturally more. Because it has good flywheel situation it does not decelerate when you add a little resistance to it.

That is my opinion. I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on March 26, 2009, 01:37:25 PM
@ nievesoliveras

I think there's a little more to it than you mentioned but the flywheel maybe part of what's happening in Pirate's setup.

@ Pirate88179

I watched the video a couple of times and that is indeed an interesting phenomenon which I have not seen on my Bedini motors, but then mine were using a 27 inch bicycle wheel with different ceramic magnet setups.

These are just my observations and please don't take them as negative criticism as that is not what is intended, only feedback.

Observations:

From what I see on your setup you have a base 470 Ohm resistor then two 5 K Ohm variable resistors (VR1 & VR2) all in series.

You fire it up and let it accelerate with VR1 & VR2= 0 Ohms.
When you increase the resistance on VR1 the rotor accelerates.
After awhile you decrease the resistance on VR1 back down to 0 Ohms and the rotor accelerates even more.
After awhile you increase the resistance on VR1 (? Ohms) and the rotor accelerates even more.

Conclusions:

There is some kind of positive feedback occuring by increasing and decreasing the base resistance but there is not enough data included to make an analysis of what if anything is happening at the batteries.

Notes:

The Bedini motors do operate like they have gears as you mentioned in the "second gear" statement but what I've observed is that at first my Bedini setups usually take about 80 or more miliamps to get the rotor turning up to speed then once it reaches a certain speed (depending on my different magnet setups) the amperage from the run battery drops as the rotor goes into second gear up to it's final speed.

The difference here is that I usually had to increase the resistance to get it to start the rotor then decrease the resistance slowly until I got it to the sweet spot then the second gear and drop in amperage would occur, yours however is quite differrent!!!

I guess the only thing I would suggest is to take Voltage and Amperage measurements on your run battery when you get maximum speed with 0 Ohms on VR1 & VR2 and see if the run battery is being depleted and at what rate. 
Also taking Voltage measurements on your charge battery to see if it's increasing, this measurement is where things aren't always what they seem though, this is where you would have to go through the charge/discharge process to see if it's just surface charge.

Anyways nice build, that's my 2 cents :)

Regards,
Paul
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 26, 2009, 02:23:22 PM
Thank @goat !

@pirate
I do recommend to do the @goat's test, to use 2 9v batteries instead of the 12v ones. The reason is that the results are seen faster and more accurately.

That is why I use 1.5v to make the tests, you can see the results in seconds not hours.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on March 26, 2009, 11:55:05 PM
Goat:

I appreciate your observations and suggestions.  You are 100% correct in your stating of what I am seeing here, exactly correct.  As far as volts go, I have seen no change on either battery while going through the getting up to speed adjustments.  I tried to do an amp test but when I put my meter in series with the charging battery it blew the fuse and the meter was set on the 10 amps (highest) setting.  I have not replaced my fuse yet (very hard to find around here) but when I do, I will try it on the power battery as you suggested.

Hey, No one has to worry about insulting me or being careful speaking to me when they are trying to help me on stuff I am learning about.  I appreciate the information and all of the help I have received from folks on here.  I have learned a lot by reading on the side but that does not compare to the real help I have received here on OU form guys like you and Jesus.  Thank you.

@ Jesus:

Yes, I have noticed that the larger the batteries, the longer it takes to see it any changes were good...or bad.  So I agree 100%.  This is a very small coil I am using and it is supposed to be very efficient. (I am using lidmotor's design)  I have not tried to see if it will run on 1.5 volts bats yet but I am going to try it just for the heck of it.  I know it runs on 9v as that is what I started out with.  Thank you too for your help and input.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: AbbaRue on March 27, 2009, 01:59:29 AM
@nievesoliveras

Check out these links they may have just what you are looking for in the homemade diode setup.

Using Aluminum
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/ntype-nr.htm 

Using Zinc. This is very close to what you are trying to do. 
He says to heat the zinc with a prop. Torch first to produce a coating of zinc oxide this is were you will get the diode effect.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/zincosc.htm


Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 29, 2009, 02:49:14 PM
...

@ Jesus:

Yes, I have noticed that the larger the batteries, the longer it takes to see it any changes were good...or bad.  So I agree 100%.  This is a very small coil I am using and it is supposed to be very efficient. (I am using lidmotor's design)  I have not tried to see if it will run on 1.5 volts bats yet but I am going to try it just for the heck of it.  I know it runs on 9v as that is what I started out with.  Thank you too for your help and input.

Bill

I do admire the @lidmotor work!
I know that you will succeed because you are very persistent.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 29, 2009, 02:52:06 PM
@nievesoliveras

Check out these links they may have just what you are looking for in the homemade diode setup.

Using Aluminum
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/ntype-nr.htm 

Using Zinc. This is very close to what you are trying to do. 
He says to heat the zinc with a prop. Torch first to produce a coating of zinc oxide this is were you will get the diode effect.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/zincosc.htm


Thank you @abbarue !
I had seen them before on one search I did.
I revisited them again.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Thaelin on March 30, 2009, 04:51:23 PM
   Next time you are down at the local junk store, look for an old broken stereo
receiver. On most of them you find a bunch of glass encased diodes in the FM
section of it. These are high freq signal diodes. Will work for what you are trying
to do. Just remember that they will not convey much current to the output.

thaelin
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 30, 2009, 08:22:16 PM
   Next time you are down at the local junk store, look for an old broken stereo
receiver. On most of them you find a bunch of glass encased diodes in the FM
section of it. These are high freq signal diodes. Will work for what you are trying
to do. Just remember that they will not convey much current to the output.

thaelin


Thank you @thaelin !
I will look for an old stereo receiver.

I just finished the bluing of the blade today and made a lot of tests.
At least this time the receiver made a low buzzing sound when I moved the pencil lead slowly on the blade.
But if I take the fingers off of the cat whisker, it does not produce any buzz sound.

That could mean that it needs a better antenna or a better ground. Because the body serves as antenna or as ground.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on March 30, 2009, 10:50:52 PM
Thank you @thaelin !
I will look for an old stereo receiver.

I just finished the bluing of the blade today and made a lot of tests.
At least this time the receiver made a low buzzing sound when I moved the pencil lead slowly on the blade.
But if I take the fingers off of the cat whisker, it does not produce any buzz sound.

That could mean that it needs a better antenna or a better ground. Because the body serves as antenna or as ground.

Jesus

Have you tested the continuity of the diy diode? ..will it conduct in only one direction?

This may seem dangerous, but there is a process called brazing, which is what  they use to weld things together, it inadvertantly changes the properties of the metals a little, and this results in the blueing you need, you may try a point-contact short with a 12v battery - something like taking your diode and christening it with extreme current by attach the negative to the razor and the positive to the other end of the diode, and  then touching the point cantact to the razor - this would create an on-spot blue'd area.

:P

This may or may not work - I would set the rest of the components aside, this type of operation is electrically violent.

You would essentially be shorting the circuit between a positive and negative pole of the battery AT the point where your material touches the razor.  You could limit the current with a spare fuse, but the initial current is what you would need.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 31, 2009, 12:47:11 AM
Have you tested the continuity of the diy diode? ..will it conduct in only one direction?

This may seem dangerous, but there is a process called brazing, which is what  they use to weld things together, it inadvertantly changes the properties of the metals a little, and this results in the blueing you need, you may try a point-contact short with a 12v battery - something like taking your diode and christening it with extreme current by attach the negative to the razor and the positive to the other end of the diode, and  then touching the point cantact to the razor - this would create an on-spot blue'd area.

:P

This may or may not work - I would set the rest of the components aside, this type of operation is electrically violent.

You would essentially be shorting the circuit between a positive and negative pole of the battery AT the point where your material touches the razor.  You could limit the current with a spare fuse, but the initial current is what you would need.

Thank you @jadaro !
I dont want to damage my receiver with a battery short circuit. But I will check if the cat whisker diode will conduct to just one direction.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: slayer007 on March 31, 2009, 02:50:36 PM
@ Jesus

I don't know if you seen this video but it may help you with your setup.

It shows how to make a foxhole radio.

It's all most the same thing your doing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skKmwT0EccE
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on March 31, 2009, 04:20:30 PM
@ Jesus

I don't know if you seen this video but it may help you with your setup.

It shows how to make a foxhole radio.

It's all most the same thing your doing.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=skKmwT0EccE

Thank you @slayer007 !
That is exactly what I did! The only difference is that mine does not get any radio sound.

I checked the diode and it conducts electricity both ways.
Now I will try with a 1N60 diode I have available.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 01, 2009, 02:15:02 AM
Always, anxious to help...


You might try turning your coil on it's side, adjusting it by 90 degrees, I know this may sound strange and irrelevant, but your coil may be oriented in such a way as to gather signal from a stronger, non radio source...  such as a nearby light bulb, or an in wall wire.

It's going to be a long time before I can test my fishing-pole aerial, the weather here just stays bad lately.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 01, 2009, 03:04:44 PM
Always, anxious to help...

You might try turning your coil on it's side, adjusting it by 90 degrees, I know this may sound strange and irrelevant, but your coil may be oriented in such a way as to gather signal from a stronger, non radio source...  such as a nearby light bulb, or an in wall wire.

It's going to be a long time before I can test my fishing-pole aerial, the weather here just stays bad lately.


Thank you @jadaro !
I have seen lately different kind of crystal radioes. And must of them are on the way you recommend. Just a few are on the way I am doing it.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 01, 2009, 11:57:35 PM
..wish I could get a hold of some varicaps like that.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 02, 2009, 02:15:37 PM
..wish I could get a hold of some varicaps like that.

If you want one of those varicaps or the complete radio kit, look here.

http://www.xtalman.com/

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 03, 2009, 05:20:28 PM
@all

In the meantime I can get the crystal radio to output some radio sound I will post some transistor circuit I have been studying as reference.

I found a circuit that was created by a person called @kubikop and used successfuly by @lidmotor to keep two led box alive and shinning for a long time by switching the two AA batteries everyday.

These circuits can be used to develop an automatic battery switcher. I know that @thedaftman did it already, but I find it very complicated. I need a simpler automatic switcher.

Maybe studying these circuits I can understand better the other battery switchers available and choose the best one.
The last two circuits are a simple radio transmitter.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 04, 2009, 12:15:42 AM
I just made a one way conductor - I don't know how well it works though, it's not giving me any readings on the diode tester, so I assume the forward current is greater than 2v - my DMM can't test beyond that.

It's actually a verdigris diode.  This is almost any sort of copper oxide, in this case it could be copper chloride, copper carbonate, copper sulfate, copper dioxide, but this is green, so it's either copper carbonate or copper chloride.

I corroded some copper strips in acetic acid, hydrogen peroxide , magnesium sulfate and sodium chloride, and god willing, it's bubbled and fumed, so I made all output gases go through a charcoal filter so I wouldn't die or anything..  the solution turned blue green overnight and the copper turned a bright lustrous color, so I pulled it out and let it dry for a few hours, at which point it turned very green...SO, I assume that All I have to do is rub this solution on it to get it to do what I want - I'm going to see what kind of things this solution evaps into...

This is essentially the kind of atmosphere that makes copper turn green, just at extreme combinations.

I'll have to try the combinations separately.


I used alligator clips to clip onto a pencil lead and the corroded copper strip and then attached their other ends to my DMM... I pushed the graphite onto the corroded copper sheet and tested conductivity.  It only conducted in one direction..and in the other it gave a resistance reading.

The graphite seems to be the ground side of this diode.  The resistance readings vary ..but it doesn't seem to want to conduct in the opposite direction.

It this point, I'm thinking of a better setup..and maybe a way to corrode the copper with electrolysis / hydrolysis etc.
The readings were zero conductance, and 18 megaohms when flipping the
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2009, 12:58:22 AM
I just made a one way conductor - I don't know how well it works though, it's not giving me any readings on the diode tester, so I assume the forward current is greater than 2v - my DMM can't test beyond that.

It's actually a verdigris diode.  This is almost any sort of copper oxide, in this case it could be copper chloride, copper carbonate, copper sulfate, copper dioxide, but this is green, so it's either copper carbonate or copper chloride.

I corroded some copper strips in acetic acid, hydrogen peroxide , magnesium sulfate and sodium chloride, and god willing, it's bubbled and fumed, so I made all output gases go through a charcoal filter so I wouldn't die or anything..  the solution turned blue green overnight and the copper turned a bright lustrous color, so I pulled it out and let it dry for a few hours, at which point it turned very green...SO, I assume that All I have to do is rub this solution on it to get it to do what I want - I'm going to see what kind of things this solution evaps into...

This is essentially the kind of atmosphere that makes copper turn green, just at extreme combinations.

I'll have to try the combinations separately.


I used alligator clips to clip onto a pencil lead and the corroded copper strip and then attached their other ends to my DMM... I pushed the graphite onto the corroded copper sheet and tested conductivity.  It only conducted in one direction..and in the other it gave a resistance reading.

The graphite seems to be the ground side of this diode.  The resistance readings vary ..but it doesn't seem to want to conduct in the opposite direction.

It this point, I'm thinking of a better setup..and maybe a way to corrode the copper with electrolysis / hydrolysis etc.
The readings were zero conductance, and 18 megaohms when flipping the

Thank you @jadaro !

That is great!
The paste used to solder, if you let it on the copper wire, causes the same green oxide.
Maybe it is not with the same properties though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 04, 2009, 01:06:58 AM
Thank you @jadaro !

That is great!
The paste used to solder, if you let it on the copper wire, causes the same green oxide.
Maybe it is not with the same properties though.

Jesus

That's interesting you mention that, This might be the flux / rosin causing the metals to corrode.  ...seems like I've seen the same kind of stuff on battery terminals, ..but I'm told to avoid touching this.

I'll be sure to publish some more results - I might start another thread, or look for one where it's more relevant.  This seems a little off topic at the moment.  You may even consider starting one, you're ahead of me all together on the point-contact cat whisker.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2009, 01:24:06 AM
That's interesting you mention that, This might be the flux / rosin causing the metals to corrode.  ...seems like I've seen the same kind of stuff on battery terminals, ..but I'm told to avoid touching this.

I'll be sure to publish some more results - I might start another thread, or look for one where it's more relevant.  This seems a little off topic at the moment.  You may even consider starting one, you're ahead of me all together on the point-contact cat whisker.

When a battery shows that green oxide, if you pour a little of soda from a cola can, it will disappear. It is more remarkably seen if you use baking soda mixed with a little water.
So if you want to check if your experiment results are that kind of oxide, mix a 1/4 spoon of baking soda with a 1/4 cup of water and put the copper you treated inside that solution for a few minutes, if the green oxide dissapears, the oxide is the same as the one produced by a battery. If it does not disappear, you have found something new.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 04, 2009, 03:38:32 AM
looks like the green is staying put.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2009, 02:20:29 PM
looks like the green is staying put.

Maybe you discovered a new kind of diode making process.
The thing is that if you let the material aside for a few days and it corrodes, it is no good for an electronic application, but if it does not corrode further, then you got a good homemade diode to use on an electronic circuit.
A crystal radio on this case.
Good luck!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2009, 02:24:46 PM
@all

I am on a feedback to the source quest and feel just like a lion on a cold weather and a harsh environment with the problem that every step taken is hard and difficult.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tbest on April 04, 2009, 02:55:41 PM
Hi everyone,
I found an interesting video and image variable capacitor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphmPrDGUjQ
http://pandatron.cz/?229&krystalky_1
Tom.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2009, 04:00:35 PM
Hi everyone,
I found an interesting video and image variable capacitor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AphmPrDGUjQ
http://pandatron.cz/?229&krystalky_1
Tom.

Thank you @tbest !

That was great! Those two links are fantastic!
Do you know how it is that it can be translated?

Jesus

Edit:
I made a search for Gollum's Crystal Receiver and found this other good link to share:
http://www.oldradioworld.de/gollum/
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 04, 2009, 10:37:56 PM
I poured the solution I used out into a flat plastic container and let it dry, this thin films continues to form on top of the solution, ..it's blueish green, has different domains of color and ..the corrosion on the copper plates is persistent.

The film seems to be preventing any evaporation from occurring so I assume it's reacting with the air...it's forming whatever formed on the copper after I pulled it out.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2009, 12:41:13 AM
I poured the solution I used out into a flat plastic container and let it dry, this thin films continues to form on top of the solution, ..it's blueish green, has different domains of color and ..the corrosion on the copper plates is persistent.

The film seems to be preventing any evaporation from occurring so I assume it's reacting with the air...it's forming whatever formed on the copper after I pulled it out.

I think that if the copper is corroding continually, then that diode cannot be used as a crystal radio diode. Because the corrosion will be passed to the other circuit wires.
But the blueish green color can be used as a color on a painting. The canvas does not corrode as the metal does.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: tropes on April 05, 2009, 12:58:44 AM

But the blueish green color can be used as a color on a painting. The canvas does not corrode as the metal does.

Jesus

Perhaps the painting could be connected to a wire fence or something and result in a Feedback To Source.

Tropes
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2009, 01:03:15 AM
Perhaps the painting could be connected to a wire fence or something and result in a Feedback To Source.

Tropes

Thank you @tropes !
You are right, maybe it can be used like that.
There is a paint already that does just that.
Maybe @jadaro2600 has invented a new continuity paint.
You never know!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 05, 2009, 02:02:34 AM
The corrosion is persistent, as in, it's not evaoprating in the air, it's just ..there, and not going anywhere, it's not spreading and it's not leaving.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2009, 02:34:37 PM
The corrosion is persistent, as in, it's not evaoprating in the air, it's just ..there, and not going anywhere, it's not spreading and it's not leaving.

That liquid must be evaporating and regenerating from the air.  Now that situation makes me remember a movie called the blob. It was some kind of silly putty that was alive and came from space.
There is a new problem then, if that paint like liquid does not dry, it is not possible to use it as paint on a canvas.

You have a very strange liquid there. I recommend that instead of trying to build a diode with expensive acids, you better get the diodes that are already available and use them. The most difficult to get is the germanium (1N34A) but the substitute used (1N60) is available almost everywhere for less than a dollar.

It does not produce much voltage and I have not been able to get sound from my crystal radio with it, but maybe you have better luck with it than I. I only got 0.04v from the environment and no sound whatsoever till now.

I think that the automatic battery switcher even though it is not a feedback to the source, is the best choice at the moment, that is in the meantime we can get a true feedback to the source.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 05, 2009, 08:42:18 PM
Jesus:

A little while back, I purchased 50 1N34 germanium diodes for $.19 ea from American Microsemiconductor.  These are listed as germanium diodes and, according to them, not a substitution.

www.americanmicrosemi.com

This suppliers only problem in my mind was the minimum order of like $40.00 which is why I bought about 50 pieces of a bunch of stuff including 2n222s, 3904's, 1N4001s, 1N4007s, and 2N3055s.

I got them for that "energy from the air" concept that I know you said you replicated.  (from that video on youtube)  I have not gotten around to attempting that yet.  Once I get my taxes done, maybe I will have some time to do so.

I hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 05, 2009, 11:43:27 PM
I suppose that my tests are on topic after all, I've wanted to make this diode so that I can use it at such low voltages...  I think that I have some diodes which are resulting in diode test of a 0.21v forward voltage.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 06, 2009, 01:36:38 AM
Ok, so I checked the evaporating liquid again today and there are hundreds of flat square crystals growing in it along with a green muck and some vaguely iridescent films.  Here's a picture!  ..the square crystals reflect light pretty well...
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2009, 04:32:44 AM
Jadaro:

Looks like an aerial shot I remember seeing of Chernobyl.

That is fascinating.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2009, 04:47:52 AM
Jesus:

A little while back, I purchased 50 1N34 germanium diodes for $.19 ea from American Microsemiconductor.  These are listed as germanium diodes and, according to them, not a substitution.

www.americanmicrosemi.com

This suppliers only problem in my mind was the minimum order of like $40.00 which is why I bought about 50 pieces of a bunch of stuff including 2n222s, 3904's, 1N4001s, 1N4007s, and 2N3055s.

I got them for that "energy from the air" concept that I know you said you replicated.  (from that video on youtube)  I have not gotten around to attempting that yet.  Once I get my taxes done, maybe I will have some time to do so.

I hope this helps.

Bill

Thank you @pirate!
Did you checked the number on the diode and it says 1N34? Or just you trusted what they said?
Everytime that I send for 1N34 diodes they send a 1N60 instead. But they put on the invoice 1N34.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2009, 04:57:01 AM
Ok, so I checked the evaporating liquid again today and there are hundreds of flat square crystals growing in it along with a green muck and some vaguely iridescent films.  Here's a picture!  ..the square crystals reflect light pretty well...

There is a way to reproduce the crystals you created. I thing they called growing a crystal. There was a member here that used to grow crystals with the shape of a piramid. I forgot where exactly I saw that topic. But I think that making a search for the words "growing crystal" and "crystal piramid" will give you interesting results.

I say that because to use a crystal, I think that it must be big enough. Growing it will accomplish that.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2009, 05:00:01 AM
@ Jesus:

No, I did not check the actual numbers on the diodes because......there are NOT any!!!  I just now looked with my reading glasses and there is no number on any of them at all.  So, what you are saying may very well be true....how could I tell?  Yes, it had the correct numbers on the invoice (of course) but.....I did not realize these had no markings on them....heck they could be anything really.  Well, I lean something new every day.  Thanks.  So let me rephrase my earlier post.....I may have bought some germanium diodes.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2009, 05:13:13 AM
@ Jesus:

No, I did not check the actual numbers on the diodes because......there are NOT any!!!  I just now looked with my reading glasses and there is no number on any of them at all.  So, what you are saying may very well be true....how could I tell?  Yes, it had the correct numbers on the invoice (of course) but.....I did not realize these had no markings on them....heck they could be anything really.  Well, I lean something new every day.  Thanks.  So let me rephrase my earlier post.....I may have bought some germanium diodes.

Bill

I dont know but there are some diodes that does not have any numbers printed on them and are belived to be germanium. They are some kind of green and yellow I think.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2009, 06:43:23 PM
@all

As a continution of my electronics study, here are the other transistor application circuits that I finish drawing on paint.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 08, 2009, 04:22:06 PM
@all

I thought that by studying an electronics course, I would find the answer to the feedback problem and now I have more questions than answers.  I am a lot more confused.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 10, 2009, 05:28:37 AM
@Jesus,

I've done some isolation.

I mixed equal parts of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to form peracetic acid, which I've allowed copper to rest in, occasionally stirring.

After a few days this solution turned a deep blue with time, it is increasing to a deeper blue color, at rest, it contains some green tones as well.

I took a bit out and let it evaporate, it has formed these crystals in the bottle cap.  I look forward to testing it's electrical properties.  Per process it should form copper acetate with some intermittent copper carbonate.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 11, 2009, 12:33:49 AM
@Jesus,

I've done some isolation.

I mixed equal parts of white vinegar and hydrogen peroxide to form peracetic acid, which I've allowed copper to rest in, occasionally stirring.

After a few days this solution turned a deep blue with time, it is increasing to a deeper blue color, at rest, it contains some green tones as well.

I took a bit out and let it evaporate, it has formed these crystals in the bottle cap.  I look forward to testing it's electrical properties.  Per process it should form copper acetate with some intermittent copper carbonate.

Thank you @jadaro !

It seems that you are getting something new. At least this photo looks a lot better than the other one. Lets see what happens.

I have been trying to understand the @mk1 toroid construction in order to test if it can be used as a feedback to the source somehow.

I finished the graphic with my idea of how to construct or build an @mk1 toroid. I will post it here for reference and I will post it also at @pirate's thread (Jule Thief)

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 14, 2009, 02:13:32 PM
@all

I did the double post double through switch circuit and test it.
The batteries get discharged too quickly.

Although it charges the one that is uncharged, when the switch is flipped to put the other to charge, the one already charged just last a few minutes if not seconds.

Then the one that was the running battery is discharged also.

*****

What I need is the knowledge to build a solid state Double Post Double Through (DPDT) relay, to use it in place of the switch.
Does anybody has a circuit to do that DPDT solid state relay?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: electricme on April 15, 2009, 02:44:14 AM
@ Jesus


Thanks for the PM, I can only send the DPDT transistor setup by posting it here.

I assume you want to switch a Positave and a Negative

Now just before anyone says it's not right, (you may be right) I will do a search on the net about switching the negative rail using discrete transistors, however here is what the circuit should look like.

Ps, the only way to make it work is to use 2 seperate switches, or take a Positave feed via 2 NPNs (further up the line)  to feed either of the necessary transistors.
If using for light current under 1 amp, use BC 548s over this use BD range or the 2N3055's or try MOSFETS, or pick on the Darlingtons.
 

jim
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2009, 03:03:23 AM
@ Jesus


Thanks for the PM, I can only send the DPDT transistor setup by posting it here.

I assume you want to switch a Positave and a Negative

Now just before anyone says it's not right, (you may be right) I will do a search on the net about switching the negative rail using discrete transistors, however here is what the circuit should look like.

Ps, the only way to make it work is to use 2 seperate switches, or take a Positave feed via 2 NPNs (further up the line)  to feed either of the necessary transistors.
If using for light current under 1 amp, use BC 548s over this use BD range or the 2N3055's or try MOSFETS, or pick on the Darlingtons.
 
jim

Welcome @electricme !
Thank you for your prompt response to my question.
The difference is that only the positive is going to be switched.

I made a circuit from my study of logic circuits.  Maybe my logic is not the right one but it is a starting point.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 15, 2009, 04:55:08 AM
Jesus:

This may or may not be helpful here but, thanks to a suggestion from Wilbyinebriated I made a device that pulses my AA battery that does not use up any power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA

I call this the Wilby's Bird experiment.  A joule thief, supercaps and leds being pulsed by Wilby's Bird.  This idea may come in handy for you at some point.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2009, 05:14:30 AM
Jesus:

This may or may not be helpful here but, thanks to a suggestion from Wilbyinebriated I made a device that pulses my AA battery that does not use up any power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA

I call this the Wilby's Bird experiment.  A joule thief, supercaps and leds being pulsed by Wilby's Bird.  This idea may come in handy for you at some point.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

If that bird were faster you would not need anything else to get that light going.
Very good experiment!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2009, 02:22:31 PM
@all

I finished my experiments with the battery switcher. Now I have the resources free to start experimenting on other thing. Now I will start with the resources that are left. I mean that did not get damaged experimenting, to build the transistor battery switcher.

It is expected to use and keep both batteries charged while working without stop.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2009, 02:42:44 PM
@all

I will explain the principle behind the logic circuit I presented here.
According to my readings, the joule thief transistor produces two different sparks of energy.
One when it turns on the LED and the other, when it turns off the LED.

With that said.
There are two diodes on the circuit.
 1. After the collector
 2. Before the emitter

The one after the collector is the charging diode. It is activated by the wire before it going to the base of two transistors.
The one before the emitter uses the bemf spark to hopefully activate the second group of transistors that will provide the alternated battery positive to the joule thief coil.

That is it! Hope for the best!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on April 16, 2009, 01:15:06 AM
So, the copper acetate has become somewhat of a mystery.  Adding more hydrogen peroxide to the vinegar results in less crystalization of the copper acetate.

I was planning on using shrink tubing to create a graphite diode with copper acetate as the oxide for the carier.  It would be nice if I could get the crystals to become more solid, they seem brittle.  I had a few that were easy to see, easy to pick up and look at and were approximately 1/8th of an inch or so , however they crumbled rather easily.

I'm going to start a new solution and add only a little hydrogen peroxide so that the formation of peracetic acid is lower that what it is now.

More updates later.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 16, 2009, 03:55:11 AM
@jadaro

Good luck with your experiments.
I think that if the crystal is brittle and you are using shrink tubing, anytime you accidentally bend the tubing the continuity of the crystal may be lost.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 16, 2009, 02:32:55 PM
@all

It seems that something is missing on this circuit.
I have not been able to make it work as the logical circuit reading stated.

Maybe it is better to build a reed switches commutator to activate the transistors.
One reed switch should activate first, then the other in secuence.

But what I wanted was to make it as simple as possible with just one transistor as the switcher trigger.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 17, 2009, 12:01:45 AM
@all

Still studying. Here is another circuits composition. Logic circuits.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2009, 09:57:17 PM
@all

Here is another group of logical circuits. I am almost sure that the answer lies on these circuits.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on April 18, 2009, 10:29:01 PM

I've been following your work jesus...I hope you have it this time.

If not I'm sure that won't dampen your enthusiasm...your diligence and determination are second to none, and are to be admired.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2009, 10:34:55 PM
I've been following your work jesus...I hope you have it this time.

If not I'm sure that won't dampen your enthusiasm...your diligence and determination are second to none, and are to be admired.

Regards...

Thank you @capzero !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 23, 2009, 01:50:58 PM
@all

Following my studies here is another group of logic circuits.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2009, 02:44:03 PM
@all

I found that one of the problems with the circuit on this link:

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg171586#msg171586

is that the batteries are isolated from the joule thief circuit and the joule thief has no starting voltage.

I need the knowledge to overcome that small circuit detail.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Thaelin on April 27, 2009, 06:23:57 AM
Welcome @electricme !
Thank you for your prompt response to my question.
The difference is that only the positive is going to be switched.

I made a circuit from my study of logic circuits.  Maybe my logic is not the right one but it is a starting point.

Jesus

   Hi Jesus:
   I quoted this message as it has the circuit in point. I hope it comes through with the post.
As I look at it, you are using NPN transistors and the emitter is tied to positive on the batteries.
This is reverse to how it would be. The emitter should be negative. The best rule of thumb is to
see movement from negative to positive and should always flow against the arrow direction. I have
used 3055's to switch both the negative and positive side, just have to be sure the emitter is towards
ground side.

thaelin
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Thaelin on April 27, 2009, 06:26:36 AM
   As usual, it didn't post with the message so here is the drawing I am referring to

thaelin
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2009, 06:00:24 PM
   Hi Jesus:
   I quoted this message as it has the circuit in point. I hope it comes through with the post.
As I look at it, you are using NPN transistors and the emitter is tied to positive on the batteries.
This is reverse to how it would be. The emitter should be negative. The best rule of thumb is to
see movement from negative to positive and should always flow against the arrow direction. I have
used 3055's to switch both the negative and positive side, just have to be sure the emitter is towards
ground side.

thaelin


Thank you @thaelin !

You know on the "jule thief" topic, a member called @jeanna made a test last year with an npn transistor, using it with the emitter and collector on the wrong polarity and it worked for her.
So taking that test into account, I used the npn transistors on that circuit as a relay for the positive current.

The idea is that when the joule thief transistor is on, two transistors will get on at the same time. One allowing the positive current from one battery to the joule thief to be used as source current, the other allowing the emf current from the joule thief collector diode to charge the other battery.
Then when the transistor is off, its emitter side diode should trigger the other two transistors, which will reverse the batteries chosen for source and charge.

I discovered on my tests that the joule thief has no positive current to start the oscillations.
I am looking for a solution.

I made another logic circuit, but the same problem showed up. The joule thief does not have a starting voltage.

Will you post the circuit you did with the 2n3055s?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on April 27, 2009, 06:46:52 PM
@jesus

On my Jt i work both ways npn in reverse it is still npn , and also my mk4 has 2 jt on it with one npn and on pnp , both circuit are the same but one is feeding fro the positive rail and the other negative battery rail.
Only on half of the circuit need to be powered for both circuit to be lighting led.

Keep the good work !

I am fallowing and hope to be able to help!

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2009, 06:59:27 PM
@jesus

On my Jt i work both ways npn in reverse it is still npn , and also my mk4 has 2 jt on it with one npn and on pnp , both circuit are the same but one is feeding fro the positive rail and the other negative battery rail.
Only on half of the circuit need to be powered for both circuit to be lighting led.

Keep the good work !

I am fallowing and hope to be able to help!

Mark

Thank you @mk1 !

You confirmed that the npn could be used with the emitter to the positive or the negative.
The only thing that cannot be changed is the base connection to the positive.

The same way with the pnp transistor, you can connect the emitter and the collector on either pole,
but the base will work only with a negative pole.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2009, 07:06:06 PM
@all

On my logic circuits study I learnt that this circuit added is a sure oscillator. But I get the same problem I had with the other one and is that the joule thief does not have a starting voltage to oscillate.

Any suggestions?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 30, 2009, 02:31:54 PM
@all

Here are the projected commutators to be tested when parts are available.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 03, 2009, 01:48:37 AM
@all

I have been looking for the sliprings, the brushes and the brush holders and the prices are out of my reach.

I will try to build a slipring assembly like the one on the graphic.

If you take a good look at the connection logic, you will see that it is a correct way of switching batteries continuosly without the losses that 6 transistors will give to the last circuit schematic.

I could be wrong though.

If I cant do it for some reason, maybe somebody with some ingenuity can finish it.
All the information is here.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 03, 2009, 05:13:50 PM
@all

Is there somebody on this world that can help me with the making of these commutator pieces for free?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on May 03, 2009, 06:41:08 PM
Hi jesus, i was planing on making some my self , my idea is to make then from a circle of falt pc copper board.

i posted a picture i hope you will get the idea , making a axial commutatro is harder then making a flat one.

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 03, 2009, 07:19:33 PM
hi jesus,
maybe this will help?
http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/build-a-motor-from-scratch/commutator
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 04, 2009, 12:44:19 AM
Hi jesus, i was planing on making some my self , my idea is to make then from a circle of falt pc copper board.

i posted a picture i hope you will get the idea , making a axial commutatro is harder then making a flat one.

Mark

Thank you @mk1 !

The problem with a flat commutator is to hold the brush holder in place.
But your idea is good.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 04, 2009, 12:51:26 AM
hi jesus,
maybe this will help?
http://sites.google.com/site/diydcmotors/build-a-motor-from-scratch/commutator

Thank you @wilbyinebriated !

That person's idea is very similar to mine. The difference is that he is making a commutator that is continuous.
I am trying to make two copper commutators that has a continuous part and a not continuous part.

But the idea is the same with the copper pipe.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 07, 2009, 03:45:50 PM
@all

I have been having problems to connect to the site. Each time I try to connect in the morning, I receive a message that the server cannot be found and the machine freezes.

I have been trying to post a graphic that shows different micro switches that can be used instead of a complicated commutator that can stop the rotor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 07, 2009, 06:29:32 PM
Jesus:

There is an even more simple micro switch on those disposable camera boards...well, at least on the Kodak style I have seen.  It is just 2 very thin strips of copper held in a small plastic base.  It takes almost no pressure to make a connection using these.

Bill   PS  Try using Firefox (Mozilla.com) as your browser.  Stefan said this site's new software is optimized for use with Firefox.  It is much faster, and safer than IE.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 07, 2009, 10:58:14 PM
Jesus:

There is an even more simple micro switch on those disposable camera boards...well, at least on the Kodak style I have seen.  It is just 2 very thin strips of copper held in a small plastic base.  It takes almost no pressure to make a connection using these.

Bill   PS  Try using Firefox (Mozilla.com) as your browser.  Stefan said this site's new software is optimized for use with Firefox.  It is much faster, and safer than IE.

Thank you @pirate

I have seen those little swtches and I have 2 of them.
The problem needing solving is that the micro switch needs to have a normally close connection and a normally open connection in order to do the battery switcher.
Also it needs to be 2 of them. One for switching the batteries positive and the other to switch the rectified dc voltage to the batteries.

There is one micro switch that is double post and double through, but its price is too high for me and that is without the shipping and handling amount.

I will see what I can do.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 09, 2009, 11:31:31 PM
@all

Here are the photos of the commutator construction progress.
It is made from a cooper straight union.
I learnt that using the half rings leftovers from the cuts makes the future sliprings to slip better.
Now I will take measurements to cut the piece of round wood, the exact center of the dowel in order to drill the center hole and get it all together with epoxy as one solid and sanded smooth commutator or slipring. Then come the brush making process.

It has not been easy, but it has been fun to build this commutator from scratch.
The other options were too expensive for me to achieve.
Using the cut leftovers as shown, solve the rotor stopping problem.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 10, 2009, 12:23:06 AM
@ Jesus:

Nice handiwork there.  I'll bet those work nicely for you.  Plus, you can modify them if needed, since you made them from scratch in the first place.  If one of the expensive ones was not exactly what you wanted, you would be stuck with it.  Nice job.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 10, 2009, 12:44:16 AM
@ Jesus:

Nice handiwork there.  I'll bet those work nicely for you.  Plus, you can modify them if needed, since you made them from scratch in the first place.  If one of the expensive ones was not exactly what you wanted, you would be stuck with it.  Nice job.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

It still needs a lot of work, but I am happy I did it, even if it fails as everything has till now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 13, 2009, 03:02:52 PM
@all

Here are the photos of my first commutator.
The only problem at the moment is that the PC11 glue I used does not want to cure completely. It is still sticky.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 13, 2009, 09:49:51 PM
Jesus:

Maybe try sticking it outside in the sunshine for a bit?  The solar heating might just do the final curing for you.  Nice job there.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 13, 2009, 10:53:41 PM
Jesus:

Maybe try sticking it outside in the sunshine for a bit?  The solar heating might just do the final curing for you.  Nice job there.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

Congratulation for your success. If not were for @jeanna that reminded you that you already had the solution with the parallel supercaps, you would still be trying to figure out something that you already knew.

I have no @jeanna to help me remember something that already I know to solve my quest.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on May 14, 2009, 12:15:10 AM
Automotive repair fiberglass resin is the best thing for making that type of commuter jesus.

It hardens very quickly.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: johnnymx on May 14, 2009, 12:36:24 AM
i building a pulse motor i use this setup
it runs with very nice torque but i don't know
how to measure hp i use 1000 volt PwR supp.
some body can help me
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 14, 2009, 03:44:16 PM
Automotive repair fiberglass resin is the best thing for making that type of commuter jesus.

It hardens very quickly.

Regards...

Thank you @capzro !
If I had knew I would have bought that fiberglass resin.
The commutator is still sticky.
Maybe I should begin a new one and buy the fiberglas resin with the money from my next temporay job.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 14, 2009, 03:49:07 PM
i building a pulse motor i use this setup
it runs with very nice torque but i don't know
how to measure hp i use 1000 volt PwR supp.
some body can help me

Thank you @johnnymx !

I have never measured the horse power of a motor.
Honestly, I dont know how to do it.
There are people on the forum that know how to do it.
Lets hope that they answer your question and help you.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Paul-R on May 14, 2009, 04:29:26 PM
Thank you @johnnymx !

I have never measured the horse power of a motor.
Honestly, I dont know how to do it...
The motor needs to be coupled up to a load of some sort.

You may then:
1. measure the current going to the motor
2. measure the voltage across it
3. Multiply these together to get the power.

But if you have weird stuff going on, like spikes, phase differences between
the voltage and the current, it might be better to use a "prony brake":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Prony_brake
http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14037/css/14037_53.htm
Paul.


Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 14, 2009, 10:41:13 PM
The motor needs to be coupled up to a load of some sort.

You may then:
1. measure the current going to the motor
2. measure the voltage across it
3. Multiply these together to get the power.

But if you have weird stuff going on, like spikes, phase differences between
the voltage and the current, it might be better to use a "prony brake":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Prony_brake
http://www.tpub.com/content/engine/14037/css/14037_53.htm
Paul.

Thank you @paulr !

I do expect that this answer can help on knowing the horsepower of the cap discharge motor posted above.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Paul-R on May 14, 2009, 11:03:01 PM
Thank you @paulr !

I do expect that this answer can help on knowing the horsepower of the cap discharge motor posted above.

Jesus
cap discharge.... that sounds like a case for putting a drum on the motor shaft, and running a leather strap with spring balances.

If you visit your local school and ask to speak to the Head of Physics, they might have a prony brake that you could borrow for a couple of weeks.
Paul.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: johnnymx on May 15, 2009, 02:39:15 AM
i don't think this formula apply to my motor thanks a lot anyways
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 15, 2009, 02:55:43 AM
@all

These are the photos of the commutator and brushes assembly.
I used iron wire instead of strips of copper as bruhses.

Next step is to add a locking nut after testing for the right way to put the commutator in relation to the magnets. The timing.

Other thing is the wiring configuration and to repair the pulse motor parts that are loose because of the handling.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 15, 2009, 03:03:15 AM
Jesus:

That looks really good.  You are like me, we have to work with what we have and can afford.  To me, that adds an additional challenge which I actually like sometimes when it works.  That is a nice job you did on those.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 15, 2009, 03:32:14 AM
Jesus:

That looks really good.  You are like me, we have to work with what we have and can afford.  To me, that adds an additional challenge which I actually like sometimes when it works.  That is a nice job you did on those.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Paul-R on May 15, 2009, 04:13:42 PM
i don't think this formula apply to my motor thanks a lot anyways
The electrical solution - No, it won't. But the mechanical prony brake should
do the business.

The other possiblitiy is to couple the motor to a small traditional generator,
fix that to a resistive load, and measure the current to, and voltage across that
resistive load.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: johnnymx on May 16, 2009, 12:27:19 AM
thanks paul
i try with a.c. motor like rotoverter
i will put measurements here
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 16, 2009, 11:42:51 PM
@all

Two more photos of the switcher assembly progress.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 17, 2009, 12:46:46 PM
hi there how r u?
i am really very -very impressed ith your work...i think genius people like you are one daygoing to change this world after all....
i have been replicating your work and yes i  do gt some very interesting results.........
sir, now i want to build a self charging circuit which can recharge a 12 v 60 amp car battery...i use this battery to power a small inverter which is used to run a 40 watt fluorecent tube and a small table fan in my room....now a days there are more and more powerfaliur in my town as there is water shortage in dams ,, i live in gwalior a samll town in india...
i have been to many many posts in this feed back to source forum but i am not able to find out a proper circuit which can self charge its own source battery..........
sir can you please tell that the circuits provided in the links below will work best for my purpose.....
1]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.20

2]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.40

3]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5773.0
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 17, 2009, 12:47:46 PM
dams ,, i live in gwalior a samll town in india...
i have been to many many posts in this feed back to source forum but i am not able to find out a proper circuit which can self charge its own source battery..........
sir can you please tell that the circuits provided in the links below will work best for my purpose.....
1]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.20

2]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.40

3]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5773.0
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 17, 2009, 12:49:05 PM
hi there how r u?
i am really very -very impressed ith your work...i think genius people like you are one daygoing to change this world after all....
i have been replicating your work and yes i  do gt some very interesting results.........

i have been to many many posts in this feed back to source forum but i am not able to find out a proper circuit which can self charge its own source battery..........
sir can you please tell that the circuits provided in the links below will work best for my purpose.....
1]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.20

2]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.40

3]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5773.0
please reply waiting eagerly....
thanks
shubham tiwari
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 17, 2009, 03:54:20 PM
hi there how r u?
i am really very -very impressed ith your work...i think genius people like you are one daygoing to change this world after all....
i have been replicating your work and yes i  do gt some very interesting results.........

i have been to many many posts in this feed back to source forum but i am not able to find out a proper circuit which can self charge its own source battery..........
sir can you please tell that the circuits provided in the links below will work best for my purpose.....
1]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.20

2]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.40

3]  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5773.0
please reply waiting eagerly....
thanks
shubham tiwari

Thank you @shubhamforme !

If what you want to know is which one of @gadgetmall circuits is the good one. It is this one:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg148155#msg148155
But if it is a battery switcher. If you have the means to get the parts, is this one:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg159185#msg159185

There is a link to the original that you print and paste to a board...

There is another circuit that could be better if what it says is true. It is on this video. The author is @ist. The problem with him is that he will not give all the information, he will give you only hints.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOSSn7UTWOU

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 18, 2009, 05:03:12 PM
@all

Testing the commutator without connections to the pulse motor.
The commutator does not allow the motor to spin freely.
Its center hole is not centered.
I need to redo the commutator or center its hole somehow in order for the motor to spin freely.

After the commutator is centered, i will follow with the connections.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 18, 2009, 06:00:18 PM
@ Jesus:

You could bore out the center hole to a larger size, then fill it with a good fast drying epoxy and then re drill the hole in the center by carefully measuring across the diameter in several locations and drawing a fine line with a ruler across the diameter.  Where the lines all cross is the center.  Mark this with a small nail for a starter point and redrill the size you need in two or three steps, not all at once.  In other words, a small drill to establish the center, then a mid-sized drill to open it up and then the correct size drill for your shaft diameter.  I hope this helps.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 18, 2009, 10:29:41 PM
@ Jesus:

You could bore out the center hole to a larger size, then fill it with a good fast drying epoxy and then re drill the hole in the center by carefully measuring across the diameter in several locations and drawing a fine line with a ruler across the diameter.  Where the lines all cross is the center.  Mark this with a small nail for a starter point and redrill the size you need in two or three steps, not all at once.  In other words, a small drill to establish the center, then a mid-sized drill to open it up and then the correct size drill for your shaft diameter.  I hope this helps.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

That was exactly what I was trying to do!
I have a small drill press that is used with a hand electric drill, but it does not have something to hold the commutator steady at the center in order to drill it straight through the center.
The problem being that it always get on the other side a little to one side or the other but never on the center.
Then if you get the center with a small drill bit, when you try to get the size needed it gets out of center again.
I know that I will do it eventually.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 18, 2009, 10:36:03 PM
Jesus:

This is hard to do without the right equipment, trust me I know.  if you can find something that you can chuck your rotor into, like a large drill chuck or an adapter, and spin the piece being drilled, this will make the hole round and centered.  to do this you can place the drill bit in a vice and then hold the spinning commutator above it as straight as you can.  That looks like it might fit into a 3/" drill chuck.  This way, the hole will always be centered.  Warning, if you do this, sneak up on the size because any error in being off-center will just result in a larger hole than you wanted, but still round, and still centered.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 18, 2009, 10:42:43 PM
Jesus:

This is hard to do without the right equipment, trust me I know.  if you can find something that you can chuck your rotor into, like a large drill chuck or an adapter, and spin the piece being drilled, this will make the hole round and centered.  to do this you can place the drill bit in a vice and then hold the spinning commutator above it as straight as you can.  That looks like it might fit into a 3/" drill chuck.  This way, the hole will always be centered.  Warning, if you do this, sneak up on the size because any error in being off-center will just result in a larger hole than you wanted, but still round, and still centered.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

The difficult part is the 3" drill chuck.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FluxAmps on May 21, 2009, 07:08:22 AM
some more usefull info on overunity

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9654/bearden/addition.html

tom bearden says this about it:

Every Electrical Source of Potential Is Already a Free Energy Source
We thus advance a revolutionary concept: all present power systems already utilize free energy source-antennas. However, the standard two-wire closed circuitry diabolically utilizes one-half the total free energy extracted by the source-antenna from the vacuum, to perform work inside the source-antenna to dissipate its dipolarity and hence to dissipate the source-antenna (i.e. the receiver) itself.
The source already acts as a "dipolar antenna" to continually receive "scalar potential" current d/dl (massless displacement current) from the vacuum. [Ref 9] Previously scientists and engineers have simply ignored this special massless EM energy influx. For load-free (i.e., mass-current-free) conditions, (d/dl) is continually received from the vacuum by any dipole (i.e., by any dipolar source-as-an-antenna), and the flowing energy is continually exchanged back and forth between the vacuum and the dipole.

This free energy exchange with the vacuum is also true of any two points in our circuit that possess an open-circuit voltage or potential difference between them. Two such points act as a dipole. Free energy dipolar antenna sources are everywhere; we just have to learn how to break the symmetry in their energy flux exchange with the vacuum, collect some of the freely flowing influx, and distribute that collected excess energy to an isolated load to separately power it.

In other words, we simply have to implement circuitry that operates analogous to the standard heat pump cycle.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigeration_cycle

I'm trying to comprehend all this, anyone any ideas for circuits like that?

http://www.cheniere.org/

bottom of this page:
June 2000:

The source charge problem—“the most difficult problem in classical and quantum electrodynamics”*—solved by Tom Bearden.

then - "click here for explanation"

Seems by this guy that every electrical device is overunity and we stupidly use our energy to kill the mechanism that receives energy from the vacuum.
For as far as I understand he says that you can copy the charge of the power battery endlessly every cycle in the right setup
and u use the copy of the power so to speak to power the device every cycle.
The trick seems to be to keep the power source and the working device separated in the right way, in a way that the power source gives his potential to the working device but not looses any of it's charge.
By using the right setup and materials, so the power source is cut loose after it gave over it's potential energy to the working device but before current really starts to flow.
By copying the power sources potential in the right way the power source won't lose anything of it's charge..
He says it's in principle even possible to make multiple copies of one power source every cycle and power even so many multiple devices with it, as long as we avoid using our power to close the gate to the vacuum...
Amazing stuff....


I recently found a very nice link with lot's of information

http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4362954/Megacollection_-_Tom_Bearden_-_Complete_Works

with this link you can download a shitload of books and info on what we try to achieve here,
you need some torrent software for it though, it's word to install one for this(temporarely even)

It also contains a full .pdf version of tom bearden's 894 pages book - Energy from the vacuum - concepts and principles
Which as I understood is considered as the bible on this subject according to some people

plus lots and lots of other interresting stuff( over 200 .pdf files)
Think it's a musthave for your toolbox....

 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 21, 2009, 02:51:09 PM
Thank you @fluxamps !

There is a problem with all those circuits and it is that they are just a general idea of a concept that has not been proved completely.
If you try to make the MEG for example, you spend thousand of dollars trying to get it to work and then it ends up ocuppying space and collecting dust in your room.

I have not seen one successful replication of one of those circuits yet.

I recommend you to choose something less profound and already replicated successfully to spend your time and money.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FluxAmps on May 21, 2009, 06:14:21 PM
Thanks @ Jesus

I stumbled on this tom bearden info, saw it was from a few years ago and not updated recently..
It made me very curious, so I wanted to know what you guys over here thought of it.
I didn't know that, what makes it so expensive to build the MEG?
Is it the price of some components?
That would probably be a waist of time and money then indeed.

For myself I'm looking more in the direction of bedini/pulse motor like set ups
That's why I followed this topic already for a few weeks and the fusionback's ofcourse

Well you know way more about it then me, so I want to ask you
Do you think it's possible to use that principle he is talking about
of not closing the gate to the vacuum, in our bedini/pulse motors?
I'm just thinking out loud as a newbie

I'm a complete newby at this, 6 weeks ago I didn't know what a reed switch was or what a transistor did
Now I got my first little pulse motor running on a little selfmade coil(not bifilar yet) and a reed switch and
a transistor and unfortunately a battery ofcourse :)
It's made from an old dvd player I took apart, I glued a transparant coverdisk from a dvd spindle on it and
eight 5mm cubic neodymium magnets.
It spins... at around 850rpm on four 1,5V batteries

Still got to make some good bifilar coil and I got some old harddisks laying around I took apart
So my next model will be build from a harddisk with properly fixed magnets instead of glued
magnets, so I can go to higher rpm's
this one can but I'm afraid the magnets gets loose and fly through the window :)

Lately I got lucky and got in posession of a 4 channel scope
Like I said I don't know shit about electronics and scopes only the basics like U=IxR
and calculating serial and paralel resistance but I'm learning...
I like the trial and error way of learning things so..

So I do a lot of measuring with that scope on my device lately just to learn and see what happens well you know...
I made some other little coils also which a placed around it and which I can adjust they are not powerful but
strong enough to light a led(they are only little collecting coils)
One thing I noticed on the scope is that only in the driving coil(running on 5V approx.) I can see a big spike
about 50V peak to peak.(about 10 times the 5V input)
the collector coils I placed around don't show spikes like that
Just wanted to share that with you, don't know if you can do something with it
Well that's where i'm at right now, looking forward to the months to come when I
get my harddisk model running with better coils and circuits

It takes time to get the right parts and shit and knowledge ofcourse, well you know, you go through the same

So thank you guys for all the usefull info I found here for that, I already learned so much from you people thx

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 21, 2009, 07:27:12 PM
@fluxamps

The thousand dollars spent almost always is buying bigger and more powerful components to make it work after failing with cheap parts.

If you want to get good voltage from your pulse motor, use the most powerful magnets you can afford.
Pay attention when you are buying them that when they get stuck to each other it is very difficult to take them apart.

A good magnet makes a good motor even when the coil wire is not that good.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 22, 2009, 03:09:09 PM
@all

This specific motor does not have the strengh to turn the commutator even when the commutator 's center hole is centered.

I tried different commutators and it cannot turn even a blank pvc commutator using only three of its brushes.

I need a stronger motor to try this commutator test.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 27, 2009, 05:24:29 PM
@all

I have some ideas working in my head.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on May 27, 2009, 10:02:20 PM
Jesus:

Have a look at this series of videos on Youtube.  comwarrior69 has had a breakthrough on his feedback to source research, it might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk

There are several others in this series.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 01:08:59 PM
@all

Here is a joule thief circuit that recharges its source battery.
It does not turn on an LED at the same time though.

I know that on @pirate topic there are some people that can improve it with their pickup coil technology and make it to light an LED at the ssame time for the same amount of energy used to charge itself.

It does work if the battery is at least 0.5v and can accept a charge.

Can anyone verify this circuit?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 28, 2009, 01:10:53 PM
how many turns on the coil? what model transistor?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 01:19:14 PM
Jesus:

Have a look at this series of videos on Youtube.  comwarrior69 has had a breakthrough on his feedback to source research, it might help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDxC7FBrGEk

There are several others in this series.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

I checked it and found it interesting. He just need to add some circuit schematics to make it more understandable.

I cannot understand well the spoken english, even though I can read and write it almost perfectly.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 01:39:10 PM
how many turns on the coil? what model transistor?

Thank you @wilbyinebriated !

Any working joule thief will do.
Mine has 11 turns bifilar, a 3904 transistor and a 1k resistor at the base.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 28, 2009, 02:38:49 PM
Thank you @wilbyinebriated !

Any working joule thief will do.
Mine has 11 turns bifilar, a 3904 transistor and a 1k resistor at the base.

Jesus
thanks jesus.
1 more quick question, toroid for a core?
i am leaving for the lake soon to do some fishing, so i can't say i'll get it done today.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 02:52:51 PM
thanks jesus.
1 more quick question, toroid for a core?
i am leaving for the lake soon to do some fishing, so i can't say i'll get it done today.

Yes, toroid for a core.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 28, 2009, 04:11:17 PM
hi there,
i found your joule thief circuit very interesting,,but can we use a small value capacitor in it??? also in the circuit diagram... what is the 104k?? is it a capacitor ceramic type or a resistor???
i am trying to replicate i....
thanks
shubham......
------------------------------------------------------------------------

@all

Here is a joule thief circuit that recharges its source battery.
It does not turn on an LED at the same time though.

I know that on @pirate topic there are some people that can improve it with their pickup coil technology and make it to light an LED at the ssame time for the same amount of energy used to charge itself.

It does work if the battery is at least 0.5v and can accept a charge.

Can anyone verify this circuit?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 28, 2009, 05:15:28 PM
just built it jesus. my source battery was @ 1.11v.
as soon as i connected it, it dropped to about .37v. it climbs to .58 or so and then drops back to .36 or.37 and repeats. i will let it run and see what happens.

@ shubham
104k is a disc capacitor.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 06:37:51 PM
hi there,
i found your joule thief circuit very interesting,,but can we use a small value capacitor in it??? also in the circuit diagram... what is the 104k?? is it a capacitor ceramic type or a resistor???
i am trying to replicate i....
thanks
shubham......
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you @shubhamforme !

Yes you can use a smaller capacitor with more than 16volts.
The 104k is a ceramic capacitor that has on its face a 104 printed. Sometimes it has printed a 104k instead.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 06:57:03 PM
just built it jesus. my source battery was @ 1.11v.
as soon as i connected it, it dropped to about .37v. it climbs to .58 or so and then drops back to .36 or.37 and repeats. i will let it run and see what happens.

@ shubham
104k is a disc capacitor.

Make a test.
Disconnect the two diodes going to the battery's positive.
Take an LED and connect it between the first diode coming out of the transistor's collector and ground.
It must light if your battery and the circuit are okay.
Then connect the diodes back, if everything is okay. Remember it must be a working joule thief.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 28, 2009, 07:34:14 PM
sorry. i should have edited my first post. i got it operating properly. i think i had a bad battery, i swapped it out for another and it's fine. this one is @ 1.24V. i will let you know what it reads in a few hours.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 28, 2009, 07:35:04 PM
hi i have tried evrything...but this is nt working....and my battery voltage  fell from 1.23v to .7v and its gradually decreasing...also i had use 800 ohms insted of 1 k but still it does not chargs up the battery....

i dont think this circuit is a slf chaging circuit......
dd your charged up the battery???? i dont think that this will charges up.......
kindly tell me that what should be don....

thanks

Make a test.
Disconnect the two diodes going to the battery's positive.
Take an LED and connect it between the first diode coming out of the transistor's collector and ground.
It must light if your battery and the circuit are okay.
Then connect the diodes back, if everything is okay. Remember it must be a working joule thief.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 07:59:42 PM
hi i have tried evrything...but this is nt working....and my battery voltage  fell from 1.23v to .7v and its gradually decreasing...also i had use 800 ohms insted of 1 k but still it does not chargs up the battery....

i dont think this circuit is a slf chaging circuit......
dd your charged up the battery???? i dont think that this will charges up.......
kindly tell me that what should be don....

thanks

Mine is still charging.
Because I cant put my camera to work for the time being, I will make some step schematics to clarify the whole thing.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 09:35:37 PM
@all

Here are the promised schematics.

The complete self charger only have three diodes and a ceramic 104k or 0.1uf and it works just like that.
The other stuff is overkill.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2009, 09:47:13 PM
@all

Remember that it will charge the battery some points below its natural voltage, because it is used at the same time.
Example if the battery without the joule thief load was 1.03V it will be working some points below that initial voltage and charged at the same time.
When you take it off it will be back to its original voltage or better.

After you verify this, then we will need the assistance of the @pirate topic crew to use the system to light something with the same amount of energy used by the circuit without an added load.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 28, 2009, 11:38:52 PM
just an update.
i'm still @ 1.24V
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 29, 2009, 12:42:58 AM
just an update.
i'm still @ 1.24V

Check if taking out the charging diodes an LED works on the circuit and after put everithing back as it was.

If the circuit is working properly, yours is performing better than mine.
You can leave it the whole night working and in the morning the battery will be the same voltage as the last measurement you did today.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 29, 2009, 03:47:17 AM
Check if taking out the charging diodes an LED works on the circuit and after put everithing back as it was.

If the circuit is working properly, yours is performing better than mine.
You can leave it the whole night working and in the morning the battery will be the same voltage as the last measurement you did today.

Jesus
just tested a led across the collector and emitter. good light, all is working. removed led and will update you in the morn.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 29, 2009, 09:22:24 AM
checked out everything and it dosent work.... this circuit does not work my battery still at .4v from 1.3v within 5 hrs

just tested a led across the collector and emitter. good light, all is working. removed led and will update you in the morn.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 29, 2009, 01:59:36 PM
checked out everything and it dosent work.... this circuit does not work my battery still at .4v from 1.3v within 5 hrs

If you are using a breadboard you should be sure that the led turns on as a normal Joule thief.
It suppose not to go down from 1,37v to 0.47.

Check with another battery to be sure that the joule thief is working properly.

Remember that the strip on the diode goes all on one direction. They are not arranged as a normal bridge rectifier.

Could you post a photo of your setup?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 29, 2009, 02:59:35 PM
sure buddy i'll post my setup pictue...but i am sure that everythings at right position but its still not working???
did yours worked???
pls u post pics of ur set up....and i'll paste main.... thx.

If you are using a breadboard you should be sure that the led turns on as a normal Joule thief.
It suppose not to go down from 1,37v to 0.47.

Check with another battery to be sure that the joule thief is working properly.

Remember that the strip on the diode goes all on one direction. They are not arranged as a normal bridge rectifier.

Could you post a photo of your setup?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 29, 2009, 04:19:40 PM
@all

I made the camera to work!
The battery I am trying to repair is an AAA from my camera. It does not hold a charge.
It has been on treatment since last night and it does not take the charge.
The source battery is not drained on the process!!!

I have many very old batteries to experiment.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: WilbyInebriated on May 29, 2009, 04:31:35 PM
still @ 1.24v this morning. i'm going fishing for a few days, i will let you know what it's at when i get back.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 30, 2009, 01:40:07 AM
@all

Remember this?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 30, 2009, 01:50:02 AM
@all

I really apologize. Please accept my apologies/
I finish my quest. I do not have Feedback to the source.

It is as simple as this:

Now the circuit changed its behavior and the LED stays on and discharging the battery on both switch positions.
That means that the whole behavior was a lose connection somewhere in the circuit that produced a constant loop to the battery.
I am tired now and I will not keep going on with these false successes I have had, I will post no more.
This was my gift and apportation to the free energy community and the world.
And I failed again. I cannot resist a third time. Sorry!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FluxAmps on May 30, 2009, 03:51:14 AM
Hmmm..... that's cool stuff Jesus my man, that you got going on there
I keep following your as ever so very well documented information.

thanks for sharing my man keep up the good work I'll be watching
trying to replicate whatever you will find

greets from amsterdam holland
Maurice
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 30, 2009, 04:00:56 AM
Hmmm..... that's cool stuff Jesus my man, that you got going on there
I keep following your as ever so very well documented information.

thanks for sharing my man keep up the good work I'll be watching
trying to replicate whatever you will find

greets from amsterdam holland
Maurice

Thank you @fluxamps !

I could be wrong though. I have not tested it long enough and almost always this things give me some big surprises.

I pray that it keep working as it has been.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on May 30, 2009, 04:10:52 AM

I can't wait to see what you are going to do with this circuit jesus...your persistence seems to have paid off.

Congrats.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 30, 2009, 04:16:45 AM
I can't wait to see what you are going to do with this circuit jesus...your persistence seems to have paid off.

Congrats.

Regards...

Thank you @capzero !
Again, I pray that everything keep going well.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FluxAmps on May 30, 2009, 05:24:02 AM
Well I keep praying with you Jesus
I'm getting more and more convinced everyday that we are really going to need this thing
and that we are getting so close
It even starts feeling like it's finally allowed? That we can? just go for it?

Did you guys see what comwarrior did with his opto couplers and shit?
To keep the circuits electronicly seperated? cool stuff too...
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: shubhamforme on May 30, 2009, 05:37:01 AM

hi jesus...
hres my setup pics .... i have tried this recent circuit of yours it does work for the first few seconds but slowly the battery starts to decrease in voltage and never recharges....and i dont got any recharging results yet....
did your battery gets recharge to full capacity....
he only difference to y circuit that i am using a bc337 transistor ad everythings the same... my battery is 12.55v nicd , it gets to 12.67v for first few 5 to 10 seconds and then gradually starts to fall in voltage....no recharging
 ???

@all

Remember this?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 01, 2009, 06:20:00 PM
Well I keep praying with you Jesus
I'm getting more and more convinced everyday that we are really going to need this thing
and that we are getting so close
It even starts feeling like it's finally allowed? That we can? just go for it?

Did you guys see what comwarrior did with his opto couplers and shit?
To keep the circuits electronicly seperated? cool stuff too...

I thought it a long time and I will keep going, maybe a little more slowly but this situation reminds me the story of the man at the water hole on the desert.
There was a pump installed on the place and this man was with his partner pumping to get some water to drink and survive.
After 45 minutes pumping, he quit and his partner jumped quickly and began to pump frenetically saying: My man, you cannot quit now, it is just that the water has a long way to climb to get here and as the story goes, the water began to go out off the pump after only five more minutes of effort.

So according to that lesson, I cannot quit now, it is just that the OU has a long way to climb to the surface, but if I do not keep making at least a little effort, it will go back down and it will be more difficult to start it to climb to the surface again.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 01, 2009, 06:42:56 PM
hi jesus...
hres my setup pics .... i have tried this recent circuit of yours it does work for the first few seconds but slowly the battery starts to decrease in voltage and never recharges....and i dont got any recharging results yet....
did your battery gets recharge to full capacity....
My battery did not get recharged to full capacity but it kept a voltage of 1.08v for four days. When I turned on the LED it went down discharging for a few hours to 0.88v and when I closed the loop with the diode it recharged back to 1.08v again.
Remember that this battery was a damaged battery from a bunch damaged batteries I have.
Quote
he only difference to y circuit that i am using a bc337 transistor ad everythings the same... my battery is 12.55v nicd , it gets to 12.67v for first few 5 to 10 seconds and then gradually starts to fall in voltage....no recharging
 ???

You know I have been thinking and I remembered that a loose connection creates a high resistance on the circuit.
So what we need to do here is to add an at least 20k potentiometer to a small base resistor of about 100 ohms and begin to adjust the potentiometer till we find the exact resistance that produces that the LED go out when the Diode is closing the loop and that the LED turn on when the Diode is retired form the circuit. It is easier with a switch.
When the switch is open the light goes on, when the switch is closed the light goes off and the battery begins to recharge.

If you are still interested on getting a self charging joule thief circuit, you should begin to experiment with getting the right resistance to produce the situation explained above.

Forgive me for fleeing ashamed when I discovered that the self charging was a loose connection.

I will stay to the end!

Nice job you did with your joule thief circuit!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 01, 2009, 06:59:18 PM
@all

I need to slowly restart gathering my thoughts and my lab parts and retake the goal I had at the beginning.

I do restart here and now the quest for "The Feedback To The Source".

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on June 01, 2009, 08:33:56 PM
Jesus:

I am very glad to see you are not giving up.  Hey, if this were easy, everyone would have done it by now.  Don't ever give up!

I just had a wild thought.  You said that you had a loose connection.  On another topic i think you posted that a loose connection has a very high resistance, so, why not place various resistors of increasing value at that connection to see if you can duplicate the effect of the bad connection and see if it works again.  This time, you would be able to control it.  Just a thought, I may be way off here.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 01, 2009, 10:58:53 PM
Jesus:

I am very glad to see you are not giving up.  Hey, if this were easy, everyone would have done it by now.  Don't ever give up!

I just had a wild thought.  You said that you had a loose connection.  On another topic i think you posted that a loose connection has a very high resistance, so, why not place various resistors of increasing value at that connection to see if you can duplicate the effect of the bad connection and see if it works again.  This time, you would be able to control it.  Just a thought, I may be way off here.

Bill

thank you @pirate !

That is the idea I have too. But instead of various resistors I will use a 20k pot or a 50k pot that I have. I bought a multiturn trimmer and it does not trim anything, you can be all day turning it and there will be no change at all.

The trick that must be found here is which leg to put the pot on or is it that both legs must be trimmed.
By the legs I refer to the base and collector legs, the right self charging setup lies between this two coil legs.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 03, 2009, 01:44:11 AM
@all

I will play a little with the self charger to see if I can make it work again.
It should turn the light on when the switch is open and turn the light off when the switch is close.
If for some reason I cannot make it work even after rewounding the toroid coil and building it back step by step as @resonanceman recommended at the "jule thief" topic.

Then I will use the new circuit and see if it works.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 04, 2009, 02:25:08 AM
@all

There is a circuit I posted before that was called:
YES Gate / NOT Gate.

I was trying to wind a new toroid and start again step by step.
Looking for a toroid winding information I stumbled with this circuit again. It is not the one I made as plan B.
Because of the supposed double signal it has I tried it as a test for the switching I needed to accomplish the battery swapper that I am still working on it.

I tested it with the old self charger toroid and the thing began to charge very slowly.

I put a pot as a resistor and the pot did not worked as expected.

I tried a 100k and the self charger charged a litle more very slowly.

I increased the resistance to a 1M resistor with colors black, brown and green and it is charging as it was when the connection was loose.

So the changes were:
Adding a red led between the emitter and ground and a 1M resistor from the coil to the transistor base.

Does anybody want to verify this?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 04, 2009, 03:29:40 PM
@all

Testing and retesting the self charger circuit, I found that its work can be disrupted by anything.

Also the quantity of charge produced is so small that I have not been able to find a good use to it.

I will try to get something better that can be used as a feedback to the source.

As for example the battery switcher commutator.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on June 11, 2009, 04:55:39 AM
@Jesus

I have something for you !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGVDt9MbaKE

And this one !

I hope this will help !

Charge a cap to 80 volts light the neon trigger the triac pulse the battery at high amp.

Keep the good work !

Mark

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 11, 2009, 03:03:04 PM
@Jesus

I have something for you !

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGVDt9MbaKE

And this one !

I hope this will help !

Charge a cap to 80 volts light the neon trigger the triac pulse the battery at high amp.

Keep the good work !

Mark

Thank you @mk1 !

Have you replicated it already?
If so, did it self charge?

I have tried so many self chargers and all have failed.
Even my self charger fails.

I will give it a try as soon as I can.
Things has gotten tough around me lately.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Mk1 on June 11, 2009, 06:50:38 PM
@ jesus

I have found those 2 last night, the drawing is from energetic forum, and the video youtube dated at second of June. So i did not have time to work on it or get a triac. I believe the one one the video to be the most interesting one. Capturing bemf with a automatic discharge system , new stuff , a bedini thief , i assume it should be as good . But that said , i must confess i think charging a battery is a waist of time , It just doesn't work efficiently like charging a super cap.

I guess what i like is the load releasing system with a neon and triac .

Mark
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on June 12, 2009, 10:12:50 PM
Hi guys in this forum gadetmall posted this schematic. Can anyone explain me these components please especiallly where there is FSMR parts cause I need to build a battery swapper?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 13, 2009, 02:15:41 PM
@ jesus

I have found those 2 last night, the drawing is from energetic forum, and the video youtube dated at second of June. So i did not have time to work on it or get a triac. I believe the one one the video to be the most interesting one. Capturing bemf with a automatic discharge system , new stuff , a bedini thief , i assume it should be as good . But that said , i must confess i think charging a battery is a waist of time , It just doesn't work efficiently like charging a super cap.

I guess what i like is the load releasing system with a neon and triac .

Mark

Thank you @mk1 !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 13, 2009, 02:26:44 PM
Hi guys in this forum gadetmall posted this schematic. Can anyone explain me these components please especiallly where there is FSMR parts cause I need to build a battery swapper?
Thanks

That circuit has not been explained by the author, I asked him but got no answer.
If you like to try asking him on his topic go here and post your question:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6519.msg166507#msg166507

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on June 14, 2009, 09:57:03 AM
Thanks NievesSoliveras
Did you ever build a battery swapper for bedini or other chargers?
Thanks again
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 14, 2009, 03:16:02 PM
Thanks NievesSoliveras
Did you ever build a battery swapper for bedini or other chargers?
Thanks again

I built a battery swapper with a DPDT switch But it did not do the job. I mean it did not charge properly the batteries. Or my batteries were damaged already.
I moved to try an automatic one, because that one was manually switched.

Regarding @gadgetmall's circuit, I was looking at it yesterday and that fsmr seems to be a single post double throu relay.

I think that to swap properly the two batteries the relay must be DPDT.

I think that it works by using the negative output of the 555 timer. I dont see it using the positive output.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 14, 2009, 03:24:49 PM
@all

I made this composition from a circuit posted by @mk1 from the youtube video he posted here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6362.msg185516#msg185516

I do not have the triac 600v 40a needed
The capacitor betwen the transistor and scr can be a flash capacitor from a camera circuit.

If any one wants to try it and report, it would be well appreciated. I am short on funds to experiment.

I posted the circuit on the joule thief thread first because it is a joule thief and @mk1 posted his circuit version there. I made this one from his.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 15, 2009, 02:16:00 AM
@all

There is a forum member that has had success with the self charger circuit. He is known as @resonanceman.

My circuit has been failing me, but it seems that it is working for him.
Look what he did:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on June 15, 2009, 08:44:11 PM
Hi Nievesolivera thanks for your help. Is that a transformer or a toroid joule thief. How much windings are there in that joule thief?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 15, 2009, 11:39:13 PM
Hi Nievesolivera thanks for your help. Is that a transformer or a toroid joule thief. How much windings are there in that joule thief?
Thanks

The explanation that @resonanceman gave of those photos is here:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6123.msg186164#msg186164

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 20, 2009, 05:13:56 PM
@all

I have found a pretty neat idea of making a very strong and fast motor.
Maybe with this idea the commutator battery switcher could be completed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGMxGhpRHzA&feature=related

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 23, 2009, 02:07:04 PM
Hi Nievesolivera thanks for your help. Is that a transformer or a toroid joule thief. How much windings are there in that joule thief?
Thanks

You remember the question you had about the @gadgetmall battery swapper circuit?
It is explined by its authors here:
http://www.zen22142.zen.co.uk/Circuits/Switching/vcs555.htm

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 24, 2009, 09:10:02 PM
@all

My self charger has been charging for 4 hours now.
It charged my camera AAA damaged battery from 0.46v to 1.15v.
This battery does not hold the charge. Lets see what happen.

It has not quit charging since I changed the toroid for a ferrite bar with 3 feet of #26 wire.

At the same time that it is charging the battery it is lighting a led also.
When I put the battery in the led was off. I went to the grocery store and when I came back it was lit.

Lets see what happen.

By the way. I tried to get a rotor to replicate the experiment I posted of the youtube motor, that can be used for the commutator project and the rotors I found are very expensive. The least expensive was 250 dollars.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 25, 2009, 12:32:48 PM
@all

When it was charging for 9 hours, I took the led off and changed for a trio led mini tap light without stopping the circuit.

After two hours of the light being working dim, the battery got very low. This trio was spending more than the circuit could provide.

This circuit is the lowest voltage I have seen that still lights the leds. It was 0.12v

I took off the trio, replaced with the led and went to sleep.
Now at this moment the led is brightly lit and the battery has 0.89v in it.

I will start it all over again with a different battery and not using the led trio.

The experiment showed me that the circuit will tell you when the battery is charged by turning the led on.

That is you put a dead battery and forget it. Later come back and the led is lit, meaning the battery is charged.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 25, 2009, 03:31:59 PM
@all

I changed the battery with another that had 0.44v and the circuit took all the energy from it and it went down to 0.0v.
After 1 hour it went up to 0.3v then to 0.5v.

I notice that it is not behaving as yesterday. It was charging faster yesterday.

I have to check the diodes one by one out of the circuit, to see if they are ok or broken as the other ones I used.

I will do that after a few hours to give the circuit chance to behave in a positive or negative way.

The battery I took out has at this time 1.04v when I took it out it had 0.89v.
It seems that it has recovered some extra volts by sitting alone.
I soldered two wires to it in order to distinguish it from the other at test.
With this wires I tested if the led is receiving current when the circuit is turned on and it was lit each time I connected the battery in its place.

so the circuit is okay.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 25, 2009, 08:00:00 PM
The self charger quit working after getting the new test battery to its original 0.44v.

I checked all the diodes, one by one and they are okay.
I checked the transistor and is okay.
I moved all conections looking for any circuit reaction while doing so and there was no response or flicker of the led as usually does.

I used a magnifier and look the JT coil and it has the wire grayed interweaved on the ferrite bar.

The coil got damaged maybe for being working nonstop since yesterday.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 26, 2009, 03:22:28 PM
@all

I unwound the bar ferrite coil after bending one of its wire ends. I bended the wire that goes to the transistor's base.

I found that both wires has instead of grayed parts as it looked at first, yellowed parts on both wires.

That lets me with a big question mark on my head.

Is it that it needs a heavier wire with the same lenght?
Because I tried it with a new winded toroid And did not get any positive reaction from it.

Is it that that strong charging I get sometimes is microwaves sent over my house?

I just dont know what it is?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 18, 2009, 02:18:19 PM
@all

Forgive me for the long time taken to review my notes and experiments.
I am working on the same direction.

Feedback to the source.
I dont want to claim nothing that make me look as the boy that cried wolf, wolf.

So if the experiments I am doing go well I will post the whole information here.

If it is true, it is so simple that you wont believe that by just adding one simple capacitor to the circuit of the pulse motor it self charge.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: powercat on July 18, 2009, 05:10:51 PM
Hi Jesus
I wish you all the very best
 I know if you achieve OU the rest of us should be able to replicate your work fairly easily
 as you always show a clear schematic and component parts required

 all the best
  cat
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 19, 2009, 03:41:03 AM
Hi Jesus
I wish you all the very best
 I know if you achieve OU the rest of us should be able to replicate your work fairly easily
 as you always show a clear schematic and component parts required

 all the best
  cat

Thank you @powercat !

That excited man gif is cool!

The motor is still working with the same speed as it was yesterday at this time.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 19, 2009, 01:21:51 PM
@all

Today the pulse motor is still running at the same speed as the first day.

I will stop the motor and disassemble the circuit. Then I will reaasemble it and if it self runs. I will humbly claim that I found the simple detail that closes the loop for a pulse motor of this kind.

It is so simple that you wont believe it till you replicate it yourself.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 19, 2009, 05:41:41 PM
@all

I stopped the motor and restarted it and it restarted well and run at the same speed as the first day.

I disassembled the circuit.
I reassembled it taking photos and when I run it again it did run.
Now it will be left running another time to see if it keeps the same behaviour.

I will post the schematics after the test this afternoon. Now here is 11:33 AM 7/19/09.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on July 19, 2009, 05:44:58 PM

*pitches tent*
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on July 19, 2009, 10:08:22 PM
*pitches 2nd tent* LOL
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on July 19, 2009, 10:55:15 PM

*pours guest cuppa joe*
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Goat on July 20, 2009, 12:21:30 AM
Much appreciated cuppa joe there Cap-Z-ro  (It's cold here) :D 

Where's tent #3...LOL

Hope we will be pouring the finest Champagne on Jesus soon...Getting anxious here :) 

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: powercat on July 20, 2009, 01:02:23 AM
Is the afternoon post late? Coffee Goat
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 02:04:58 AM
@all

The test have been a success!!!!!

Now I will start to explain How I Did It!
It is up to you to replicate and verify.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 02:33:49 AM
@all

I first took a self charger circuit that has a 2200uf capacitor to run a pulse motor and change it to test @electricme's three batteries idea.

It works good for a while but after an hour working it starts to discharge the batteries.  You readjust it and it charges again.

My charger came experimentig with an @gadgetmall's diode capacitor idea.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 12:33:05 PM
@all

It has been very difficult to get to the forum and post. Sometimes you get to the forum and after you finish writing your post there is a message that your time is up and you have to try again, or that the server cannot be found error.

That only means that there is a lot more people that are looking for true free energy like me.

I will continue trying till I get through all the obstacles. I quitted once on posting again because I could not resist to be put publicly on shame, But I never quitted on attaining my goal. That is why I will keep trying to finnish what I started.

To the task at hand:

The second step is to attach the pulse motor and the joule thief circuit together.

The joule thief circuit will be eliminated entirely except for the 2200uf cap and just a small cap and a diode added on the final step.

The small cap can be two different types, being the second type the best one and the heart of the self running pulse motor or the key part that closed the loop.

Note:
The batteries must be rechargeable in order to work properly. A non rechargeable does not last long charging and discharging at the same time.
Another thing is the bearings must be good quality and well oiled or greased, because after three or four days of continuous work they begin to give an annoying pulsing sound.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 04:44:52 PM
@all

The pulse motor is still running at the same speed, with the same rechargeable batteries.

The third step is to get the joule thief circuit out and add a diode and a 104 ceramic capacitor.

If the 104 capacitor does not make the pulse motor to self charge, then you have to add a small yellow camera capacitor.

That yellow camera capacitor is the one I am using, mine is silver color though. But it is from a camera circuit.

Performing some experiments I found that the capacitor added in this way makes the pulse motor to self run without the help of the joule thief circuit.

This is what it is, just try it and you will see.  Remember that your coil is different than my coil and therefore you need to get the right resistor for the @bedini circuit transistor base.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 05:02:01 PM
For the newbies like me!

I will post the photos of the reassembling of the pulse motor circuit with the 104 ceramic cap and with the small silver camera capacitor.

My motor is self running right now with the small silver camera capacitor. It usually comes yellow. but what is important is the uf value and the voltage it has.

I dont know what does values are. Remember that camera circuits dont have any labels on it explaining its components.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 05:05:16 PM
For the newbies like me continuation.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 05:15:14 PM
For newbies like me continuation.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 05:34:57 PM
I told you that it was so simple that is unbelievable.
But it is true. Just try it. Remember to tune the resistor to the coil.

There you have it. I accomplished my goal of self running a pulse motor with a battery from 1.5v to 9v.

The thing is that I forgot how was the way I was gonna use it.
I have taken so much time that I lost the spark of the idea.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: innovation_station on July 20, 2009, 06:00:14 PM
great work jesus ..

but you have some huge neos in there do you think there is an induction generation thing takeing place cuz the neos ... ?

that may be aiding the effect ?

ist
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: resonanceman on July 20, 2009, 06:21:16 PM
@all

It has been very difficult to get to the forum and post. Sometimes you get to the forum and after you finish writing your post there is a message that your time is up and you have to try again, or that the server cannot be found error.



Jesus

Great  work      :)

I have  connection  problems too .
I see  you are  posting  quite a few  pictures
My connection is  bad enough that it often takes me  2 or 3 tries  to  load  a page here.
Posting   a reply  with  a  picture  pretty much  impossible  if I  do it all at once .
I have found that it works pretty  good to  post the reply without  the  picture .......then  go back and use  the modify  button to put  the pictures  in  one at a time .

I hope this helps   save  you a little time


gary
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jeanna on July 20, 2009, 08:11:27 PM
Great work, Jesus!

And thank you for the step by step. It makes this so much easier.

jeanna

(I have been  clearing the history from my browser. This gives the chitika nothing to upload from my browser and it seems to make the pages load very fast. I sometimes clear the history more than once a day.)
Also, did you change the appearance yet?
left frame,
bottom,
below people online is theme selector.
Change it to the pale blue plain.
No OU flash pictures to load each page. = much faster.

jeanna
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 11:01:39 PM
great work jesus ..

but you have some huge neos in there do you think there is an induction generation thing takeing place cuz the neos ... ?

that may be aiding the effect ?

ist

Thank you @ist

The clear one is a neon, the red one is a camera red led.
I left the neon there just in case, it was from the original bedini circuit.
The red led is to know if it is working, or producing electricity and at the same time it is the diode from ground to base of a bedini circuit.

Jesus

Edit:::
I think that are the neo magnets you are talking about and not the neons.
Those neos are the only ones that trigger the current on the coil to trigger the transistor.
If I used a smaller one the transistor did not trigger and I had to use a reed switch to trigger it.
After I put those the trigger problem was solved instantly.
By the way those were a gift from my brother Franky.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 11:08:33 PM
Jesus

Great  work      :)

I have  connection  problems too .
I see  you are  posting  quite a few  pictures
My connection is  bad enough that it often takes me  2 or 3 tries  to  load  a page here.
Posting   a reply  with  a  picture  pretty much  impossible  if I  do it all at once .
I have found that it works pretty  good to  post the reply without  the  picture .......then  go back and use  the modify  button to put  the pictures  in  one at a time .

I hope this helps   save  you a little time


gary

Thank you @resonanceman !
The problem is that after I make a post with photo or without photo the whole page turns dark gray and it does not respond to any button I press.
It just keeps moving the earth globe three or four turns each time I press a button, but it does nothing.
I have to close the window and start to enter again.

Thanks to god I finish posting the information.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 20, 2009, 11:12:09 PM
Great work, Jesus!

And thank you for the step by step. It makes this so much easier.

jeanna

(I have been  clearing the history from my browser. This gives the chitika nothing to upload from my browser and it seems to make the pages load very fast. I sometimes clear the history more than once a day.)
Also, did you change the appearance yet?
left frame,
bottom,
below people online is theme selector.
Change it to the pale blue plain.
No OU flash pictures to load each page. = much faster.

jeanna

Thank you @jeanna !

I will do that and see how it behaves.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Cap-Z-ro on July 21, 2009, 02:55:16 AM

Jesus...I had a gummy pc once and had the same probs losing posts from restarts.

Try opening up a 'word processor' program
 and type it there, save it, copy it and paste it in the forum window.

If you lose it, you still have it saved in 'word'.


It was very considerate of you to simplify the process for all the novice's among the readers...who may even become inspired to enhance the circuit.

When that happens, everybody wins.

It will be interesting to see if down the road the motor can be made to carry a load.

Regards...

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 21, 2009, 04:53:26 AM
Jesus...I had a gummy pc once and had the same probs losing posts from restarts.

Try opening up a 'word processor' program
 and type it there, save it, copy it and paste it in the forum window.

If you lose it, you still have it saved in 'word'.


It was very considerate of you to simplify the process for all the novice's among the readers...who may even become inspired to enhance the circuit.

When that happens, everybody wins.

It will be interesting to see if down the road the motor can be made to carry a load.

Regards...

What I began to do is to run notepad and type what I want to say in it then when I am prepared to post, I then go to the forum.  so you had the same idea but with word.
About the motor, I know that it will be improved by someone and it will come back to me.
There is a saying, that you reap what you sow.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: electricme on July 21, 2009, 03:20:33 PM
@Jesus,

Well well well, just look at what my humble suggestion some weeks ago about using 3 batteries has done, but tap into the center battery only would do.

Congradulations Jesus, you have earned this, I am just happy I thought of the series batts.

Why did I do this?

Well as I was thinking how to stop a higher voltage from being squashed into a smaller container, I didn't have a LM317 adjustable to use, the next best thing was to "sample" the battery power.


          |-------------- 36v dc in ---------------------|
          |                                                               |
          |       |                   |                     |            |
           -----| |------------| |-------------| |---------
                  |                   |                     |             
                                    |       |
                                    |       |--------------- 12v DC
                                    |---------------------  out

         

If you needed just 12v DC but the only voltage was 36 volt supplied, then feed the 36 volts into three 12v batteries connected in series, then "feed" off the battery pile.   

As I showed in my drawing, it should be possible to do a similar thing using just 3 capacitors.

Ohhhh isnt it great when an idea has a happy ending he he ;D

Rock on bedini circuits
jim
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 21, 2009, 03:38:41 PM
@Jesus,

Well well well, just look at what my humble suggestion some weeks ago about using 3 batteries has done, but tap into the center battery only would do.

Congradulations Jesus, you have earned this, I am just happy I thought of the series batts.

Why did I do this?

Well as I was thinking how to stop a higher voltage from being squashed into a smaller container, I didn't have a LM317 adjustable to use, the next best thing was to "sample" the battery power.


          |-------------- 36v dc in ---------------------|
          |                                                               |
          |       |                   |                     |            |
           -----| |------------| |-------------| |---------
                  |                   |                     |             
                                    |       |
                                    |       |--------------- 12v DC
                                    |---------------------  out

         

If you needed just 12v DC but the only voltage was 36 volt supplied, then feed the 36 volts into three 12v batteries connected in series, then "feed" off the battery pile.   

As I showed in my drawing, it should be possible to do a similar thing using just 3 capacitors.

Ohhhh isnt it great when an idea has a happy ending he he ;D

Rock on bedini circuits
jim

Thank you @electricme !
You are always welcome !

I will experiment to see if I can make the pulse motor to run just on capacitors. That would be great!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: powercat on July 21, 2009, 05:17:14 PM
congratulates on all the work so far
Quote
I will experiment to see if I can make the pulse motor to run just on capacitors. That would be great!
That would be truly amazing    [As i am suspicious of battery chemistry]
cat
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 21, 2009, 05:57:18 PM
congratulates on all the work so far That would be truly amazing    [As i am suspicious of battery chemistry]
cat

Thank you @powercat !

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: dllabarre on July 22, 2009, 02:21:35 AM

Jesus

I'd like to duplicate your set up.

What is the value of D1 and Q1 in your circuit "STEP 3"?

On your motor, what size wire and how many turns each did you use?

What diameter is the coil of your motor?

Thank you,
DonL
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: electricme on July 22, 2009, 04:13:25 AM
@Jesus,
Thank you @electricme !
You are always welcome !

I will experiment to see if I can make the pulse motor to run just on capacitors. That would be great!

Jesus

Thank you for the most kind remarks, Jesus, its very welcome in this day and age.

I'm sure you will know all this below, I put it here just in case a newbe comes along and needs to know about it.

When using caps, you will have to work out the energy being supplied to fill them, verses the discharge etc etc.
Then there is a little matter of, the Ratios, time to fill verses the amount of voltage and amps.
It seems a cap will fill very fast if you supply it with enough energy, but if you only trickle it in to the cap, it will fill slow.
So how much energy does the circuit need to be self sustaining, will the charging impulse going to the series caps be able to keep up with a constant charge and discharge.

I think it will be a difficult thing to do, but not impossible.

Mabe a range of caps would doo the job, I mean, if you were looking at driving a 12v load from the output, then begin from there and work backwards. Think small first, then make it bigger if you can.

You would need a 16v cap in the middle, try something about 1,000uf or lower.
For the caps either side try 16v and about 10,000uf and higher.
Everything depends on the supply source and the demand

I think when the 3 caps are fully charged, when you take energy from the center cap, as the 2 outer caps are filled, then only the center cap will be filled.

I don't know, but would the energy in either of the outer caps, dribble over or spill over into a lower value cap to help the center cap recharge? after it has had a discharge?
If this occurs, then it would help the recharging process.
I hope you succeed with this Jesus

jim

@Cat, nice tripple neons you got there.

@All
I'm going to take a look at making a series earth cell battery soon, got to read up on this, some people say it is impossible, lets see it this is so or not.

This might be a good source of info, I saw this link on another forum, makes interesting reading.
http://www.4shared.com/file92366887/ad3b1e66/Free_Energy_-_Free_electricity_From_The_Earth.html

hooroo
jim
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 22, 2009, 03:15:57 PM
Jesus

I'd like to duplicate your set up.

What is the value of D1 and Q1 in your circuit "STEP 3"?

On your motor, what size wire and how many turns each did you use?

What diameter is the coil of your motor?

Thank you,
DonL

Welcome @dllabarre !

D1 = Red LED
Q1 = 3904
Wire size = 30awg
Turns = 700 on each coil
The diameter of the coil is 3.75" pvc
The magnets must be big so they can trigger the transistor If not you need a reed switch or other device to trigger the transistor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 22, 2009, 03:18:03 PM
@jeanna

Thank you for the theme change instructions.
Now the machine takes less time to show the page.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 22, 2009, 03:25:15 PM
@Jesus,
Thank you for the most kind remarks, Jesus, its very welcome in this day and age.

I'm sure you will know all this below, I put it here just in case a newbe comes along and needs to know about it.

When using caps, you will have to work out the energy being supplied to fill them, verses the discharge etc etc.
Then there is a little matter of, the Ratios, time to fill verses the amount of voltage and amps.
It seems a cap will fill very fast if you supply it with enough energy, but if you only trickle it in to the cap, it will fill slow.
So how much energy does the circuit need to be self sustaining, will the charging impulse going to the series caps be able to keep up with a constant charge and discharge.

I think it will be a difficult thing to do, but not impossible.

Mabe a range of caps would doo the job, I mean, if you were looking at driving a 12v load from the output, then begin from there and work backwards. Think small first, then make it bigger if you can.

You would need a 16v cap in the middle, try something about 1,000uf or lower.
For the caps either side try 16v and about 10,000uf and higher.
Everything depends on the supply source and the demand

I think when the 3 caps are fully charged, when you take energy from the center cap, as the 2 outer caps are filled, then only the center cap will be filled.

I don't know, but would the energy in either of the outer caps, dribble over or spill over into a lower value cap to help the center cap recharge? after it has had a discharge?
If this occurs, then it would help the recharging process.
I hope you succeed with this Jesus

jim

@Cat, nice tripple neons you got there.

@All
I'm going to take a look at making a series earth cell battery soon, got to read up on this, some people say it is impossible, lets see it this is so or not.

This might be a good source of info, I saw this link on another forum, makes interesting reading.
http://www.4shared.com/file92366887/ad3b1e66/Free_Energy_-_Free_electricity_From_The_Earth.html

hooroo
jim

My first capacitors try was a failure.
I took three camera flash capacitors and put them in series parallel to the battery pack and waited it to fill.
After a while I retired the battery pack and the motor did stop after 2 to three seconds.

I will experiment some more with the new information.
Remember I am also a newbie.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 22, 2009, 07:46:09 PM
Jesus:

Try supercaps.  You can get 10 Farad ones pretty cheap, about $6.00 ea.  They fill fast and output only as fast as the load on them demand, like a battery. It has been my contention that you, or Jim (or both) could charge up the caps to start with, and then both run and recharge them at the same time.  But, I believe it will take the use of supercaps.  (My opinion)

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: powercat on July 22, 2009, 08:11:41 PM
Hi Bill
 have a look at the thread on super cap's
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7759.msg192833#msg192833
Electric Double Layer Capacitor's
149 products  all the different sizes. and most of the prices and PDF information
http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors/productfinder.php
cat
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jeanna on July 22, 2009, 09:55:50 PM
have a look at the thread on super cap's
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7759.msg192833#msg192833

Thanks powercat,
I looked down the page a little and found this:

=====
To answer your question - yes it is possible but, expensive. The formula to figure this out is:

(Vmin + Vmax)/2 * F / 3600 = Ah

Vmin & Vmax - upper and lower voltage. This is the voltage range that your device has to work in. Vmin is the voltage that your device dies at, my GPS stops at 2 volts.

F - Farads

3600 - coulomb, a unit of electrical measure.

Ah - Amp hours (/1000= mAh)
Is this 3600 seconds?

Running the problem backward:

1000Ah * 3600 / 12V = 300,000 Farads

The voltage was for a common 12V battery since you do not specify what voltage you need.
Michael C /UltraCapacitors.org
=====

This might not be so bad if jesus needs to be in a range of 0.5v-1.6v for 5 minutes?

@jesus
you are welcome. I am glad to hear it has helped.)

jeanna
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 23, 2009, 06:02:23 PM
Jesus:

Try supercaps.  You can get 10 Farad ones pretty cheap, about $6.00 ea.  They fill fast and output only as fast as the load on them demand, like a battery. It has been my contention that you, or Jim (or both) could charge up the caps to start with, and then both run and recharge them at the same time.  But, I believe it will take the use of supercaps.  (My opinion)

Bill

Thank you @pirate !
As soon as my budget so permits, I will buy at least 4 10F supercaps.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 23, 2009, 06:11:18 PM
Hi Bill
 have a look at the thread on super cap's
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7759.msg192833#msg192833
Electric Double Layer Capacitor's
149 products  all the different sizes. and most of the prices and PDF information
http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors/productfinder.php
cat

Thank you @powercat !
The only problem with the super capacitor saler link is that it has a minimum of 10 supercapacitors at $7.50.
That is too expensive for a test.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 23, 2009, 06:39:11 PM
Thanks powercat,
I looked down the page a little and found this:

=====
To answer your question - yes it is possible but, expensive. The formula to figure this out is:

(Vmin + Vmax)/2 * F / 3600 = Ah

Vmin & Vmax - upper and lower voltage. This is the voltage range that your device has to work in. Vmin is the voltage that your device dies at, my GPS stops at 2 volts.

F - Farads

3600 - coulomb, a unit of electrical measure.

Ah - Amp hours (/1000= mAh)
Is this 3600 seconds?

Running the problem backward:

1000Ah * 3600 / 12V = 300,000 Farads

The voltage was for a common 12V battery since you do not specify what voltage you need.
Michael C /UltraCapacitors.org
=====

This might not be so bad if jesus needs to be in a range of 0.5v-1.6v for 5 minutes?

@jesus
you are welcome. I am glad to hear it has helped.)

jeanna

Thank you @jeanna !
You know, the forum traffic must be big, because to post these three posts I did, took me a lot of time.

I post one, the machine freezes and says it cant find the server.
I have to rebbot, sign in and post again and the cicle repeats.
It is very tiresome.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: powercat on July 23, 2009, 06:49:45 PM
Thank you @powercat !
The only problem with the super capacitor saler link is that it has a minimum of 10 supercapacitors at $7.50.
That is too expensive for a test.

Jesus

okay here is another link eBay seller 20 F   these are about £4.50 UK  each
 looks like he's on holiday / Seller Currently Away
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Super-Capacitor-charges-in-seconds-20-Farad-2-5Volt_W0QQitemZ110399029587QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item19b44b8153&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
cat
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 23, 2009, 06:58:22 PM
okay here is another link eBay seller 20 F   these are about £4.50 UK  each
 looks like he's on holiday / Seller Currently Away
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/New-Super-Capacitor-charges-in-seconds-20-Farad-2-5Volt_W0QQitemZ110399029587QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_3?hash=item19b44b8153&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12%7C66%3A2%7C39%3A1%7C72%3A1683%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A1%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50
cat

Thank you @powercat !

4.5 times 1.62295 = 7.303275
So the price would be 20 cents less with this guy for a bigger capacitor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on July 23, 2009, 09:36:45 PM
Thank you @powercat !

4.5 times 1.62295 = 7.303275
So the price would be 20 cents less with this guy for a bigger capacitor.

Jesus
Wouldn't making the coil square produce greater fluctuations? ..it's almost like a slot motor.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 24, 2009, 01:05:27 PM
Wouldn't making the coil square produce greater fluctuations? ..it's almost like a slot motor.

Welcome @jadaro2600

I think that any pulse motor configuration will do, because all work with the same principle of moving the rotor with an electromagnetic pulse.
Just be sure the rotor assembly runs smoothly.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 24, 2009, 11:45:04 PM
@ Jesus:

Here is where I got most of my smaller supercaps from:  http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90420-capacitor-ultra-10f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0010c0-002r7.html

The link is for the 10F model ($3.54 ea.) but they have 25F, 50F 100, whatever you may need.  I got my 650F cap from Gadgetmall. He sells them for about $70.00 I think, which is a good price for the size,  but, in today's economy, that is still a lot of money to me.  It is very well worth it but, money is tight for me now.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 25, 2009, 03:10:18 PM
@ Jesus:

Here is where I got most of my smaller supercaps from:  http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/90420-capacitor-ultra-10f-2-7v-radial-eshsr-0010c0-002r7.html

The link is for the 10F model ($3.54 ea.) but they have 25F, 50F 100, whatever you may need.  I got my 650F cap from Gadgetmall. He sells them for about $70.00 I think, which is a good price for the size,  but, in today's economy, that is still a lot of money to me.  It is very well worth it but, money is tight for me now.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !

I will check it as soon as the link works for me. I tried 2 times and the link does nothing.
what I will do is copy it and paste it on the browser to see if it works for me.

Jesus

Edit:::

It worked!!
My question is, do they have a minimum quantity order?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on July 26, 2009, 07:13:14 AM
Jesus:

There is shipping, of course, (always) but I don't recall any min. order requirements from them.  I believe I ordered 2 of the 10F caps and it was not all that much for shipping, and they arrived pretty quickly.

I noticed that you have to "call" for some of the pricing on the larger caps, but, if you do, maybe you could post here what they said?  It might give others an idea about what the costs are (right now) for a 25, 50, 100F supercap.

I have done many successful experiments (documented on my youtube videos) using these 2 10F caps.  I can't say if they are big enough to do what you are attempting to do.

Maybe talk with Jim (electricme) as he ran his EB to a supercap and ran an electric motor from it. I don't recall the size he used.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jadaro2600 on July 26, 2009, 11:10:54 PM
Is this a high voltage or sudden current device? ..it would be interesting to know which it is.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 27, 2009, 02:17:36 AM
Jesus:

There is shipping, of course, (always) but I don't recall any min. order requirements from them.  I believe I ordered 2 of the 10F caps and it was not all that much for shipping, and they arrived pretty quickly.

I noticed that you have to "call" for some of the pricing on the larger caps, but, if you do, maybe you could post here what they said?  It might give others an idea about what the costs are (right now) for a 25, 50, 100F supercap.

I have done many successful experiments (documented on my youtube videos) using these 2 10F caps.  I can't say if they are big enough to do what you are attempting to do.

Maybe talk with Jim (electricme) as he ran his EB to a supercap and ran an electric motor from it. I don't recall the size he used.

Bill

Thank you @pirate !
I am saving some money to buy three of them.
Can you believe me if I tell you that I dont have a phone.
I take the internet through a wireless card.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 27, 2009, 02:19:40 AM
Is this a high voltage or sudden current device? ..it would be interesting to know which it is.

We are trying to experiment with 10F capacitors to see if we can make a pulse motor to work with just capacitors.
That is trying to follow @electricme ideas.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on October 21, 2009, 08:39:18 PM
Thank you @powercat !
The only problem with the super capacitor saler link is that it has a minimum of 10 supercapacitors at $7.50.
That is too expensive for a test.

Jesus
Hi Jesus . Long time no talk . I have ULTRA BOOSTCAPS for 55.00 plus ship like Pirate bought . I have sold a truckload because the original price is still over 70 dollars . I made a deal with the supplier who has pallets of them and i am only selling them at my cost for now . They are 2.7 volts 650 farads and very big with nuts on the ends to attach wires . Mine release 1700 amps per second and can create Fire Heat burn lamp cord etc but they are Nice to have . Its a direct replacement for any battery and unlike "super caps " these can be connected in series for an infinite voltage and have unlimited charge and discharge cycles . take care guys . Im working on version three Of My E-lights . i have  one i call the Infinity Light Cube that will dazzle you . runs from one 1.5 volts and lights up 10 tophat pure white Leds and charges spare battery up to 6 volts worth . Yes Patent will be pending but the Idea is to get the products out NOW rather than have ahandfull of experimenters have it why not let all the grandmas and Poor countries like India have the technology is a Ready form .

Peace Guys

Albert
aka GADGET
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on October 22, 2009, 03:11:37 PM
Hi Jesus . Long time no talk . I have ULTRA BOOSTCAPS for 55.00 plus ship like Pirate bought . I have sold a truckload because the original price is still over 70 dollars . I made a deal with the supplier who has pallets of them and i am only selling them at my cost for now . They are 2.7 volts 650 farads and very big with nuts on the ends to attach wires . Mine release 1700 amps per second and can create Fire Heat burn lamp cord etc but they are Nice to have . Its a direct replacement for any battery and unlike "super caps " these can be connected in series for an infinite voltage and have unlimited charge and discharge cycles . take care guys . Im working on version three Of My E-lights . i have  one i call the Infinity Light Cube that will dazzle you . runs from one 1.5 volts and lights up 10 tophat pure white Leds and charges spare battery up to 6 volts worth . Yes Patent will be pending but the Idea is to get the products out NOW rather than have ahandfull of experimenters have it why not let all the grandmas and Poor countries like India have the technology is a Ready form .

Peace Guys

Albert
aka GADGET

Hi! @gadget!

At this moment in time I am starting from scratch again. All my electronic parts were getting damaged one by one from different things including rust.

I will have your offer on perspective and when I straighten up my situation I will buy something from you.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nvisser on November 07, 2009, 02:13:04 PM
Hi Gadget
Are you still willing to answer a few question on the feedback to source thread
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: gadgetmall on December 11, 2009, 02:12:28 AM
Hi Gadget
Are you still willing to answer a few question on the feedback to source thread
Sure
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: mijdtr on February 25, 2010, 04:55:39 PM
a majior newbie here  please help. when i see the symbol  on schematics, with the vr wiper jumped from one side of the three poles, is that what i means  or is that a special v resistor?

thanks, peace out,
joe
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: mscoffman on February 25, 2010, 05:16:54 PM
a majior newbie here  please help. when i see the symbol  on schematics, with the vr A jumped from one side of the three poles, is that what i means  or is that a special v resistor?

thanks, peace out,
joe

Variable resitors generally have three poles...Just wire them the way
that is shown in the schematic.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: mijdtr on February 25, 2010, 05:30:25 PM
ok  thanks mscoffman,  that is what i thought  but i needed confirmation.   thank you again over and over again to infinity, and beyond.  (big grin)
peace out,
joe
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Nabo00o on July 04, 2010, 04:01:47 AM
Forgive me for my impatience as I have not managed to read the entire tread, yet, but have you managed to continually run a motor with a load (air resistance and friction is a load) without loosing voltage on your drive battery/capacitor?

If you have, then I bow to you Jesus  :D

Julian
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on July 04, 2010, 02:57:45 PM
Quote
[A author=Nabo00o link=topic=6362.msg247747#msg247747 date=1278208907]
Forgive me for my impatience as I have not managed to read the entire tread, yet, but have you managed to continually run a motor with a load (air resistance and friction is a load) without loosing voltage on your drive battery/capacitor?

If you have, then I bow to you Jesus  :D

Julian

There is a problem with resonance unsolved.
The circuit used to run well a long time then it suddenly began to discharge the battery.
Replicators of the circuit reported that the problem was the resonance.

It was explained that the resonance changed when the battery had a different higher value on voltage after running awhile.
The resonance affected by the voltage changes caused the circuit to misbehave and adjustments were needed every now and then to keep the motor running in resonance.

Then comes a greenish mold or rust and damage the soldered connections and the motor stops without apparent reason.
When you check continuity the rust has damaged the connections... etc.

A way to keep the rust out of the connections and to keep the resonance constant is needed.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Nabo00o on July 04, 2010, 03:07:57 PM
Oh, that sounds really odd....
Greenish mold you say, makes me wonder if it is the same stuff I get on my battery when I charge it... Also it could just be copper oxidation, which basically is a form of green rust on copper.

I wish you the best of luck in trying to work out this problem...

Julian
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: IotaYodi on July 04, 2010, 04:13:37 PM
Quote
A way to keep the rust out of the connections
Must be electrolysis from too much moisture in the air. Id make sure your soldering iron and solder is not contaminated first. You may be able to use liquid tape to keep the air and moisture out. Never tried that though with electronics.
http://www.thetapeworks.com/liquid-tape.htm
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Taylor1992 on September 15, 2010, 01:04:16 AM
I just ordered one of those ultra-capacitors off ebay for $50 plus shipping. 3000 Farads at 2.7 volts! A little over a 4th of the energy stored in a AA battery!

I would recommend trying that as a substitute for the batteries and the super caps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370416238952&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 15, 2010, 03:07:26 AM
I just ordered one of those ultra-capacitors off ebay for $50 plus shipping. 3000 Farads at 2.7 volts! A little over a 4th of the energy stored in a AA battery!

I would recommend trying that as a substitute for the batteries and the super caps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370416238952&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=370416238952&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT)

There is much more power available in your boost cap than an AA battery.  My 650 F cap is rated at over 3,000 amps.  Try getting that out of an AA.  I have no idea what the specs are on your 3,000 F cap but I am guessing much higher than that.

That is a very good price for that cap.  I want one.

The other things these caps do better than a battery is to store the spikes created by bemf as from a JT circuit, EB or similar.  I believe you can capture more power with these things than with a bat.

Best of luck with your large super boost cap.  Looking forward to seeing your work.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Taylor1992 on September 15, 2010, 03:57:39 AM
Well, actually... A farad is in essence, an amp second.
So a standard alkaline AA battery holds about 2.8 amp-hours.
An amp-hour is 3,600 amp-seconds.
Do you see where I'm going with this? ;)
So it's essentially 3600 x 2.8 = 10080 Farads in a AA battery.
But because of the internal resistance of the battery, it cannot ever produce 3000 amps.
However, If I wired a fully charged AA battery up to this 3000 Farad ultra-capacitor, it isn't even going to charge it up to the battery's 1.5 volts. Simply because the battery voltage decreases as it is discharged.
But the energy is still in the battery, even if the voltage is too low to charge the capacitor.
That's where the Joule Thief comes in, and THAT'S why these JT circuits run so damn long!
Dead batteries are "DEAD" because their voltage is too low for a device to function, not because they are "dead", because they're really not dead.
The Joule Thief circuit allows us to pull all of the batteries stored Farads, Coulomb, whatever you want to call it, OUT of the battery.

For example.
If you lit an LED with two AA batteries, it would not last NEAR as long as a LED on a JT circuit.
That's not because the batteries "die", it's simply because their combined voltage dropped below the 3 volts required to light the LED.
So all of their Farads of stored energy are still in there, but the voltage is too low for us to use.

That's why you can only charge the ultra-cap to like 1 volt with the battery alone, but with the JT circuit, you can now use those batteries down to .3 volts!
I get the Cap in the mail in the next few days, I should be able to theoretically charge it up maybe three times to maximum capacity of 2.7 volts at 3000 Farads.

I will let you know the results!  ;D
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 15, 2010, 04:41:58 AM
I do not disagree with what you are saying here.  The numbers speak for themselves.

As for the JT circuit, I am very familiar with most of them and have built many.

My point was that if you put the spikes into a battery (rechargeable) and put the same spikes into a super cap or boost cap, you will end up with more usable energy in the cap.

My EER or earth battery, puts out like 1.9 volts at about 19 mA's.  But yet, I can fully charge my 650 F boostcap to its 2.7 volts.  How is this possible I wondered.  Well, when I put my scope on the EB I saw all of those very high spikes and that, in my opinion, is what was doing the "extra" charging.

Having lit 400 leds from a single "dead" AA battery, I know what a good JT circuit can do.  It was only when I added the supercaps into the mix that I was able to do much more than I ever could with any battery.

I am envious of your new 3,000 F cap.  I will own one one day soon, I hope.  With a good JT circuit you can charge it for free from solar, EB, wind, etc. and light leds for a very, very long time.

This is fun stuff for sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jeanna on September 15, 2010, 05:30:26 AM

For example.
If you lit an LED with two AA batteries, it would not last NEAR as long as a LED on a JT circuit.

Unfortunately, this is not so.  :(
Many years ago I made a bunch of LED light circuits that were made of 2AAA, a 47r resistor a white or a yellow LED and a switch.
The yellow ones lasted 6 or 7 days and once I timed one of them to 32 hours straight.
The white ones are so incredibly bright that even though they are almost out, they will be visible as night lights for 60 DAYS. [unbelievable, but true.]

It would be a very sweet thing if a jtc could do this for as long, or even half as long since it is only using one battery. [... and the reason I am intrigued by kooler's circuit with the series inductors...]

The jtc circuits in general seem to keep running for 10-15 hours if they are putting out good light and using a AAA. (remember, the longevity test on the plain dc circuit was done with a AAA.)
IMO the jtc can do the impossible, which is light a led on very low voltage and mA; but, the battery leakage caused by the transistor is very significant.

I am saying this not to be discouraging, but I think it is important to realize this limitation.
It is why I like those magnesium/copper galvanic batteries so much.

I think using a very large cap with one of those might be THE great answer, because it could accumulate and push out more in the jt pulses  than the galvanic battery can in a steady stream.

Carry on. I like the promise of the large cap, too.

jeanna
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Taylor1992 on September 15, 2010, 05:41:48 AM
I took Lidmotor's rheostat idea, and applied it to my JT circuit right after I got done playing with your CFL circuit. (I'm assuming that you are indeed the same person I watched on Youtube) The led is lit even at the lowest setting.
So I replaced the rheostat with a 22 ohm resistor, and used a 1k ohm resistor in the standard JT circuit with one of those clamp on toroids found inside Televisions, and it has run for over two days off of a 1200 mA NiCd battery. The current draw is at around 12mA. I had to break out the analog meter, as the digital cannot register any current flow at all.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on September 15, 2010, 05:50:37 AM
Here I have to respectfully disagree with Jeanna in that my JT running with a ferrite bead has now crossed over the 500 hour mark lighting a 10 mm ultrabright led from a "dead" single AA battery.  My Mom is still using this for a night light to find the bathroom.  It is still very bright.

Now, if I used a new lithium battery, I wonder how long this would last?  So far, I am more than happy with it.  It is just a basic JT circuit but instead of a toroid, I wound a ferrite bead.  I have an old video of this design on Youtube.

Bill

PS  It might be important to note that my Mom only keeps this on for about 10 hours/day (actually night) and then it is shut off.  So, possibly, this gives the battery time to recover and bounce back a bit?  I do not really know.  I only know that when I check the brightness of her light every night before saying goodnight to her, it is still very bright and I am still on the original battery for over 2 months now.  The off time might be a clue here and it is not the same as leaving it on for 500 hours straight.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: guruji on September 15, 2010, 01:35:24 PM
Hi guys with that cap how can I hook it to 12v battery bank?Maybe with quadropler? Who knows?
Thanks
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on September 15, 2010, 02:59:26 PM
@taylor1992

Welcome!
Now the capacitors are higher.

 ultra-capacitors, ebay, $59 plus s/h. 3000 Farads at 2.7 volts!

Thank you lady @jeanna!
Thank you @pirate88179!

@guruji

Dont connect a 2.7 capacitor to a 12v source. An explosion might occur.

In general:
It is a pity that I spent all my money on driver boards, mosfets, xtal crystals...
Now there is the opportunity to buy a good capacitor at a fair price and my money is gone.

But do not despair, it is on my extensive wish list.

I do expect that something good for the community come out from our group efforts.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: jeanna on September 16, 2010, 04:54:05 AM
I took Lidmotor's rheostat idea, and applied it to my JT circuit right after I got done playing with your CFL circuit. (I'm assuming that you are indeed the same person I watched on Youtube) The led is lit even at the lowest setting.
So I replaced the rheostat with a 22 ohm resistor, and used a 1k ohm resistor in the standard JT circuit with one of those clamp on toroids found inside Televisions, and it has run for over two days off of a 1200 mA NiCd battery. The current draw is at around 12mA. I had to break out the analog meter, as the digital cannot register any current flow at all.
Yes, the rheostat at the pos end of the circuit makes a huge difference!
I forgot about that element.
It is very significant, although Lidmotor seems to believe this is the same as the base resistor, I do not; and, using just a little resistance at the pos of the battery can make the difference of maybe 3 times the life.

(yes, I am probably the person you saw on youtube.)

@pirate88179
Yes, Bill,
I am also talking about the secondary running the light, because in its normal configuration, it seems to require a tad more voltage for a good spike than the very basic jtc with the led across the transistor C-E.

And, I also agree that turning it off for half a day can make a big difference.
All the same, that jtc you made for your mom is very impressive.
The proportions of that 'bead' are quite different from any I have used, and, perhaps it holds a secret for longevity??

Just to define the comparison,
I am comparing a 750mAH AAA running a jtc to 2 of the same size AAA's running a dc circuit.

In my experience
The usual jtc with secondary stops after 10-15 hours of continuous runtime from 1 AAA.
The 2AAA standard circuit works for months without ever turning it off. (only the white works like this.)

thank you,

jeanna

Oops, sorry jesus, this is way off topic. I am not feeding this back to source.  :-[
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on September 16, 2010, 03:03:17 PM
Lady @jeanna.

You are an experimenter and always look for the truth, your posts are welcome here on or off topic.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Magneticitist on October 03, 2010, 07:46:12 AM
in regards to the joule thief argument, i believe most of them will not last as long as just using two AA's because for one, two AA's contain more current, and two, the JT may be pushing the AA's current at 5V or more as opposed to the 1.5V its rated at. (which as someone pointed out is why it works on "dead" batteries..) this would also depend on how hard the transistor is switching etc.. i believe a JT can be made to last alot longer than using 2 AA's.. but essentially that means the same thing can be done using the two AA's and a frequency adjustment.. so the argument turns into whether or not one power source can outlast another greater power source.

the thing i like about the JT is that it can be made to run from practically NOTHING. it may not turn a motor,  but it will definitely create useful light from LED's or even fluorescents.

two AA's may light some white LED's brightly for a long period of time, but a flash circuit using one AA can convert that current and light hundreds of the same LED's brightly for a week.

the benefit of the JT comes in when you take into account it can be made to oscillate from under 1.5V input, as opposed to the two AA's failing to light the LED's as they fall below a combined 2v or so.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on October 03, 2010, 08:19:08 AM
in regards to the joule thief argument, i believe most of them will not last as long as just using two AA's because for one, two AA's contain more current, and two, the JT may be pushing the AA's current at 5V or more as opposed to the 1.5V its rated at. (which as someone pointed out is why it works on "dead" batteries..) this would also depend on how hard the transistor is switching etc.. i believe a JT can be made to last alot longer than using 2 AA's.. but essentially that means the same thing can be done using the two AA's and a frequency adjustment.. so the argument turns into whether or not one power source can outlast another greater power source.

the thing i like about the JT is that it can be made to run from practically NOTHING. it may not turn a motor,  but it will definitely create useful light from LED's or even fluorescents.

two AA's may light some white LED's brightly for a long period of time, but a flash circuit using one AA can convert that current and light hundreds of the same LED's brightly for a week.

the benefit of the JT comes in when you take into account it can be made to oscillate from under 1.5V input, as opposed to the two AA's failing to light the LED's as they fall below a combined 2v or so.

I agree with everything you have posted except that, a JT circuit will run a motor.  I can run a Bedini motor from a single AA and a JT circuit.  I do not believe I was the first to do so.

I have nothing against using 2 AA's but, consider this, I have used C and D batteries one at a time because, as you have said, more mA's available which converts to longevity.  I suggest using the larger sized 1.5's as opposed to using 2 AA's.

Just my 2 cents.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Magneticitist on October 03, 2010, 10:52:36 AM
oh i realize running a motor is possible from the JT, even a conventional DC motor, but in the end i feel more credit would be due to the actual motor construction rather than the JT, being that the motor is obviously able to run from such a low current. similar motors have also been proven to be able to operate from 1mA earth batteries or even wireless, which i find amazing in itself, so the JT being the input in that case would hardly steal the focus in my opinion. i have seen some of your vids and its safe to say you are a JT guru lol, u already know of the JT's potential.

and i agree about the larger 1.5's.. i had the best results from using a D cell, probably because of its obvious higher capacitance.

to me the beauty of the JT is that since LED's can light from transient, one can potentially create the circuit to run from microamps and the efficiency can far outshine that of a regular input source.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on November 09, 2010, 04:37:43 PM
I composed a new circuit to get a self runing power supply.
I am still developing it.
The problem I need to solve first is the value of the feedback resistor and cap.

If anyone tries to build it, just use any wallwart inside transformer and connect the circuit to it from the lower side.

If it is from 120 to 12, connect on the 12v side.

Update:

The circuit has 7 pins at the circuit side.
It is better and easier to take a flyback ferrite and build the transformer on it.

The formula is:

Divide the desired voltage by the source voltage you are going to use.
The result is the step up number.
Wind at least five turns as primary.
Then multiply the step up number to the turns you wound.

That last step will give you the secondary winding number.

Good luck!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 01, 2011, 09:29:02 PM
After a long time of frustration I could at least make the Pic microcontroller Pickit2 to accept the program "hello world" from the tutorials contained on the cd that comes with the kit.

Lets see how long will it take to learn to program it on assembler, that is the language used by this kit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Nabo00o on February 01, 2011, 09:58:08 PM
Hey Jesus. It must feel good to get things starting to work from scratch like that.
I remember back in collage I was in the automation compartment, and we got to do a lot with PLC's (programmable logic controller). Programming it from a computer was pretty easy and visualized with lines, boxes etc. I understand PIC is more textfile-typing based, right?

PIC seems to be more down to core though and could do things faster than PLC's, at least that is my impression. Oh and not to mention that a PLC costs a LOT of money :)

Bye
Julian
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 02, 2011, 02:22:07 AM
@nab0000

Even though I studied computers I have never in my life had programmed a pic microcontroller and just getting that "hello world" Led on has been a great success.

I do expect to get a circuit that responds to the microcontroller signals to drive an alternator.

And now that I look, this is the wrong thread, the circuit is on another topic that started talking about a good high voltage circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on February 02, 2011, 04:44:22 PM
Thank you @hartiberlin!
The page looks good now!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 03, 2011, 02:04:02 AM
Hi Everybody!

I have been unable to deal with the pic programming boards I have.
But I dont like to let an unfinished job.

The schematics posted deal with the sequence to drive the alternator and the code to enter on a microcontroller.

The purpose of it is to make the alternator to selfrun while keeping the battery charged with the battery connected to the alternator as usual.

any body with knowledge on high voltage circuits can use the energy produced to power anything his creative imagination allow him to do.

have fun!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: penno64 on April 03, 2011, 11:16:52 PM
Hi Jesus,

Can you be more informative regarding the coils ?

I have a few alternators and a new Arduino (pIC) and would like to try this, though, I
cannot get my head around where the A B and C coil ends are.

Kindest Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2011, 12:39:45 AM
Hi Jesus,

Can you be more informative regarding the coils ?

I have a few alternators and a new Arduino (pIC) and would like to try this, though, I
cannot get my head around where the A B and C coil ends are.

Kindest Regards, Penno

Now I am searching for a circuit that converts 1.5 volts to 12 volts. but as soon as I find it I will post the one that teach where to connect the three cables. I have to search for it on my old harddisk.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 04, 2011, 03:26:45 PM
My word is very valuable for me.
Here is the promised graphic.
Connect from left to right the A B and C from the circuit.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: penno64 on April 04, 2011, 10:57:05 PM
Hi Jesus,

Thanks for that.

But, I am still confused.

Are we driving these coils OR are we receiving power from them to charge the run battery ?

If we are driving them - what about the diodes. Will these not block the drive power?

If receiving - what drives the alternator ?

Kind Regards, Penno
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 01:19:42 AM
The thing is to conect the three wires to the Rectifier as A B C
If done properly, the controller will activate first A as positive and B as negative by activating Hs1 and Ls2.

After that a bemf on those coils will develop and will be rectified by the Rectifier and converted to Dc and passed to the battery positive and negative connection.

It will not harm the rectifier and the signal will not affect the rectifier either.
Then the signals are Hs1 and Ls3 and that does the same job. And so on.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 01:33:57 AM
There are other two points to have in mind.

1. If you are using a permanent magnet rotor you need to add a means to regulate the overcharge.

2. If you are using the alternador as is and it was working before you took it, a 12v bulb must be connected between the positive and the regulator pin #1 and the pin #2 must be conected to positive both through a switch.

The switch is as if it were the ignition key on a car. When on the bulb will turn on indicating that it is ready and the alternator has voltage.
After the alternator gets to its needed speed it will turn off the light by means of the regulator that engaged and there you have it.

A self running and charging alternator.

If you or anyone else can donate an already programmed controller board I will do the work and the test and post the work in progress with photos.

Anybody has an extra board with 6 mosfets and a programmed microcontroller with the program on the schematic that can donate to the cause?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 01:48:39 AM
This schematic belongs to this topic. I posted it on another topic but it belongs here.

What the circuit does is that converts 1.5v to 12v and runs a newman motor.  The bemf is 11.46v at the charging diode.
The good thing is that if you touch the AA positive with a wire connected to the charging diode, the battery recovers its initial charge instantly.  But if you let the wire connected the motor stops and the high voltage that shows the neon bulb, burns the AA circuit if you let it connected.

A circuit that activates and desactivates a transistor for a millisecond  is needed.

I have been unable to build it. Any help here?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 05, 2011, 06:58:25 AM
This schematic belongs to this topic. I posted it on another topic but it belongs here.
...
 the high voltage that shows the neon bulb, burns the AA circuit if you let it connected.
...
A circuit that activates and desactivates a transistor for a millisecond  is needed.

I have been unable to build it. Any help here?

Jesus

hi Jesus

interesting circuit!

i think one possible problem with the existing connections is that when you connect your diode onto the battery there is a DC current path from the 12V on the 47uF cap back thro' the coil & diode to the 1.5V battery

even when you aren't getting feedback pulses from the motor your circuit would be trying to apply (12-1.5)=10.5V across the low-impedance of the coil DC impedance and the diode in series, driving current into both the LT device and the battery

try this test circuit - it will decouple the AA circuit from the 12V DC via cap C1 (try 0.22uF) but still allow the feedback spikes to charge cap C2 (try 1000 -10,000uF, say) which can then feed current to the battery (which should be a rechargeable of course)

the inductor (try 2 to 5mH, say) should reduce any large voltage spikes reaching the LT device - the initial energy in the feedback spike will be absorbed instead by the cap which can then charge the battery with only a slight voltage ripple

the schottky diodes, D2 & D3, can be similar to your other schottky (1N5818) on the LT device

NB.  this circuit will allow you to separate the action of feedback from coil-field collapse of the motor from the previous action of feedback of the inverted DC energy at 12V which has just come from the 1,5V battery

don't be surprised if the proportion of coil feedback is not as big as it seemed (because the two actions were combined previously) - you might find that the feedback spikes are not sufficient to recharge the battery after all !  :(   (i hope i'm wrong about that!!)

hope this helps

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 02:15:26 PM
Thank you @nul-points!

I will send for the parts as soon as I can.
The problem with getting the parts on my island. By the way I am From Puerto Rico.
That is on a corner of the bermudas triangle it is called the Puerto Rican Trench.
I sent for parts and always comes short and sometimes the wrong ones are sent.

So I usually wait to have as much ideas as I can gather and make a list of the parts needed. Even though they come with some parts short, I experiment with what I got.  (With short I mean that they have not the parts and stop the shipment, I have to inquire and tell them to send what they have, that is when the wrong ones are sent)

A map where Puerto Rico is:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 05, 2011, 07:13:44 PM
hi Jesus

Puerto Rico must be a very nice place to live, i'm very envious!


the circuit i posted above is just one suggestion to try - none of the values should be critical, so it would be good to see if you have any components already which might work in it, just to try it out - then, if it looks promising,  get some different values to see if you can improve performance

the inductor could be wound with, say, around a  hundred turns of 0.45mm magnet wire on a 6mm ferrite core

the diodes could be any type, eg 1N914, 1N4148, etc, but schottky will give lower losses

the decoupling cap could be in the range 0.1 to 0.47uF, say (higher value is better for lower losses)

the storage cap value also is not critical for a test, but is best chosen to suit the current drive required by the 1.5-to-12V inverter circuit (100uF might be sufficient, but i think its possible that 1000uF, 4700uF, or even 10,000uF would be better - this could be checked in different test runs)

since the storage cap will be operating at around 1.5V then a 3V or higher rating should be ok, but if the spike voltages are several tens of volts then it would be better to use say 20 or 30V WKG (or higher, if available & not too expensive)

higher value/rating storage caps should have lower internal losses but the physical size becomes an issue

hope this gives some guidance on options for using components you may already have - ideally you want to see how much difference the feedback to source makes to the battery draw, before spending too much money on new components

let us know how the testing goes

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 08:41:11 PM
A question @nul-points.

Does the circuit you posted gives a signal and stops? Because the problem is not that the motor stops. The problem is that the transistors stay sending the signal for too long.

If we use the fact that just by touching the positive pole with a wire from the charging diode, it charges the battery and create a circuit that do that for us, it will be runing and doing some work and keeping itself charged with the automatic touch the circuit provides.

I repeat, a circuit that mimics the wire touching to the positive AA pole is what we need.
Saddly I need to send for the LT ic again because when I left the wire connected accidentally, the coil began to give a high pitch sound and the neon was very bright for fractions of a second and the LT ic is gone.
I have had a lot of losses on my feedback to source quest.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 05, 2011, 09:09:58 PM
Is it this what you mean?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 05, 2011, 11:24:05 PM
<<double post removed>>
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 05, 2011, 11:49:21 PM
hi Jesus

>> "Is this what you mean?"

no, that's not quite correct...

instead of your previous method of connecting the transistor collector to the battery via the 1N4007, my earlier post is suggesting that you use the extra components

if you have smaller caps in the range i suggested for C2, try them first before trying largest value - 10,000uF might be too big physically (& in cost)

the circuit i posted above only replaces the 1N4007 between the collector of the transistor and the 1.5V battery

i included your existing transistor/motor connection on the left, and your existing 1.5V battery on the right to show you where to connect the new circuit - they should still be connected to the rest of your circuit as you showed earlier

all the rest of your circuit should stay exactly as it was in your previous post

<<EDIT>>
i've just seen your earlier question asking if this new circuit makes connection & then stops (you want this because the signal is on too long)

my first post tried to answer that question - in your original circuit, with the 1N4007 diode, the 12V line gets connected to the 1.5V battery- AND the LT device (via the 1N4007) when you touch that diode to the battery (or leave it connected)

this is true whether any coil-field collapse spikes occur or not - and it causes the damage to your circuit

the new circuit will only allow feedback spikes (not the 12V DC) to pass through C1, so only the spike energy will get fed back to the 1.5V battery (having been filtered first by C2 & L2)

the LT device will now be protected from the voltage of the feedback spikes

i hope this helps

regards
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2011, 02:23:09 AM
Thank you @nul-points!!!

You are a circuit magician too!!!

Now I only need to wait for the parts and the LT ic. I need to buy extra this time.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 06, 2011, 06:50:35 AM
Thank you @nul-points!!!

You are a circuit magician too!!!


no, just a fellow experimenter  :)

tell me - when you didn't connect the 1N4007 (between collector & battery) - did your circuit drive the motor ok without anything getting damaged? 

(obviously, the battery would discharge)

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 06, 2011, 12:52:01 PM
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)
Everything posted or shown by this thread refers to regular SMPS electronics and it will never become overunity.
SMPS has been developed and sold for 40 years by now and during this time there has been no sightings of more out than in.

So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 06, 2011, 01:09:55 PM
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)
Everything posted or shown by this thread refers to regular SMPS electronics and it will never become overunity.
SMPS has been developed and sold for 40 years by now and during this time there has been no sightings of more out than in.

So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?

How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2011, 01:20:49 PM
no, just a fellow experimenter  :)

tell me - when you didn't connect the 1N4007 (between collector & battery) - did your circuit drive the motor ok without anything getting damaged? 

(obviously, the battery would discharge)

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)

The motor without connecting the feedback to the battery works perfectly and you can connect the diode output to another battery and it gets charged.
As you said the AA battery gets discharged. But again if you connect a wire to the output diode and just touch the AA battery ocassionally it last a long time. Until you get tire of comming back every 10 minutes to touch it with the wire.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2011, 01:24:18 PM
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity .....
So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?

We keep trying instead of getting others to quit trying to improve their way of live.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2011, 01:25:42 PM
How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill

Thank you @pirate

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 06, 2011, 02:35:39 PM
The motor without connecting the feedback to the battery works perfectly and you can connect the diode output to another battery and it gets charged.

Jesus

ok, that's great, thanks Jesus

i just wanted to double-check that your components operate & stay ok if you don't connect that 1N4007

don't forget my comment earlier that you won't get as much energy fed back to the battery as you did before, when you now just use the motor coil-field collapse spike energy

what has been happening in the circuit is that energy from the 1.5V battery has been inverted to 12V DC and stored in your 47uF cap to run the motor

because there was a direct DC path from that cap back to the battery whenever you connected the 1N4007 to it, you were getting energy fed back in two forms

1) the coil-field collapse energy (which you want to feedback to source)

2) energy at 12V DC, which had just been converted from the battery and was then going straight back to it - and also going into the LT device (causing damage)

i believe that your circuit is intended for the 12V DC energy ONLY to power the motor

so my suggested circuit addition enables you to collect the energy from the motor field collapse spikes whilst leaving the 12V DC energy as input only to the motor

take the example you just mentioned of feeding the 1N4007 to charge a *different* battery:

the 2nd battery is not only getting charged by motor field collapse spikes - it is also getting some charge from the 1st battery (after the energy has been converted to 12V DC)

this means that the 1st battery will *discharge* faster, because extra energy is going from it 'straight' into the 2nd battery

well, the same thing happens in your original circuit if you try to feedback to the source - the battery gets extra charge from the 12V DC cap - but it also has to get extra  discharge to keep the cap at 12V!

i hope i've written this clearly, so you won't be surprised when you try the new arrangement - the important thing is to stop the damage to the circuit by decoupling the 12V DC from the feedback path so you can see how much more efficient your whole system is when you can feedback the coil-field collapse energy to the source

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: FatChance!!! on April 06, 2011, 04:13:17 PM
How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill

I'm here to find some serious research....not crackpot research performed by ignorant hillbillies.
But perhaps I have to give up on my dream. Everywhere I read I just seem to find delusional ideas.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: allcanadian on April 06, 2011, 05:07:46 PM
@Fatchance
Quote
I'm here to find some serious research....not crackpot research performed by ignorant hillbillies.
But perhaps I have to give up on my dream. Everywhere I read I just seem to find delusional ideas.
For hundreds upon hundreds of years the critics have always called inventors and scientists delusional or misguided and for hundreds upon hundreds of years they have always found success in doing what the critics have said cannot be done.
I have found my work in this field to be a bit like panning for gold, we have to cover a great deal of area and material until we find what were looking for and it takes a great deal of time and patience. As well many times we find what were looking for in the most unlikely of places, it was never about delusion or ignorance to the supposed facts it is about being in the right place at the right time and being prepared to accept what we find regardless of any opinions we may have.
The fact remains, if you have never found success then how do you know the good people here never will? If we are to be judged I would be far more inclined to believe someone who has actually found success rather than the opinion of someone who has not.

Regards
AC
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 06, 2011, 06:44:00 PM
Thank you @nul-points
Thank you @allcanadian

@fatchance
Please iluminate us with your wisdom. Share with us your knowledge.
Point out what we are doing wrong and give us the right direction.
If what you teach us is good, everybody will know and applaud you.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 07, 2011, 03:17:10 AM
Jesus:

Here is a mechanical way to pulse your battery, since you need just a touch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA)

This was the infamous Wilby's Bird Experiment which I think will work well for your circuit.  This was Wilby's brilliant idea and these little birds only cost about $5.00 online.  All it needs is a little water about once/week and, it does not take any energy away from your circuit like a 555 timer would.

Check this out as I really think it will work.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 07, 2011, 05:54:39 PM
Jesus:

Here is a mechanical way to pulse your battery, since you need just a touch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYhNw6SuTfA)

This was the infamous Wilby's Bird Experiment which I think will work well for your circuit.  This was Wilby's brilliant idea and these little birds only cost about $5.00 online.  All it needs is a little water about once/week and, it does not take any energy away from your circuit like a 555 timer would.

Check this out as I really think it will work.

Bill

I have been having troubles with the internet connection...

Thank you @pirate!
I knew about that one. If I remember I did one sketch about it.
The only problem I found with it is that it sometimes stays making the connection for too long.
When it does that, the motor stops and it is not self starter. You have to give it the starting turn. Then the motor keeps turning.

I do expect that the internet signal does not disappear again today.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 07, 2011, 06:05:08 PM
hi Jesus

i've been thinking more about your circuit


while it's true that connecting your 1N4007 causes a direct DC path from 12V to the 1.5V rail of the battery and LT device, i don't think this is the direct cause of the damage

the 12V point is the output of the LT device and the 1.5V point is the input of the LT device

so i believe that the direct cause for damage is that connecting the output to the input via the 1N4007 is causing the LT device to go into external oscillation - and this oscillation, if it occurs for long enough, is what damages the device

there is some evidence which supports this idea: you mentioned that connecting the 1N4007 causes a high-pitched whine from the coil, and the neon gets a lot brighter - both are signs that the circuit has started generating strong oscillations

manufacturers of devices like the LTxxx advise users to avoid such feedback and oscillation, but i'm interested by the details you've reported

so why not let it run automatically, in a controlled way - as you first intended - and tell us what you find!


my previous circuit is aimed at blocking the damaging feedback to allow the circuit to operate continuously with the coil-collapse energy feeding back to the battery

however, as i've mentioned, i think you'll find that when the feedback is only the coil-collapse energy on its own (ie. the usual method used in JTs & Bedini, etc) that although the efficiency of your circuit should increase - you probably won't see that dramatic recharge of the battery


so i suggest you try my previous suggested circuit first and try to get a measure for any increase of time running from, say, a AAA or AA battery (smaller is better, if it can drive the motor, because it won't take so long to wait for the battery to discharge)


you could then add a circuit, similar to the one below, which DOES cause the 'unwanted' oscillation across the LT device - but only for a fraction of a second, say, every few seconds

then, repeat the discharge test with the new circuit added and see if this gives better or worse efficiency for the 1.5V battery


the new circuit, which allows occasional DC feedback from the 12V point to the 1.5V battery, is controlled by a similar switching circuit to the one you've posted recently

once VR1 & VR2 are adjusted to give a short pulse every few seconds (like your manual 'tap' of the wire onto the battery), then the pulse will switch on Q4, via the opto-isolator, to connect diode D4 to the battery

you would use this new circuit in addition to the previous DC blocking feedback circuit - on this new diagram i've shown where C1 & L2 from the previous circuit get connected (still in the same place as before)

it would be best, if you decide to try this circuit also, to use a separate battery for the new switching arrangement at first, just to see if the new circuit improves the efficiency of your system - it's decoupled by the opto-isolator, so it won't add or draw any energy from your basic system

the new battery could probably be 2 or 3 AAAs or AAs in series

let me know if you'd like some guidance with component values


hope this helps

all the best
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 07, 2011, 06:21:29 PM
Thank you @nul-points!

I can see that this one is more compkicated and that it need another battery to work.
If that is the case, we still have the problem of charging the two batteries then.
It seems to be an isolated circuit by the opto that will activate the transistor and send the charging diodes energy to the battery.

Again the only problem besides the name of the parts is that it needs another battery to work. Or is it that, that battery represents the charging battery?

Jesus

Looking at it again I can see now that it is a flip flop circuit. A member called @electricme likes that circuit too.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 07, 2011, 06:45:16 PM
hi Jesus

yes - i think it best to try with a separate (2nd) battery at first

it's easier to arrange - then you can move on quickly to do some discharge tests and see how the efficiency of this arrangement compares with just feeding back the coil-collapse energy to source

if it seems that this new circuit is doing good things then you can look at powering the whole system from just one battery

(the flip-flop circuit - or 'astable multivibrator' - can be made to have a low current draw so that its battery lasts a long time)

all the best
np

http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 07, 2011, 08:16:57 PM
Maybe you can use a electronic relay?

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 08, 2011, 02:09:28 PM
Thank you @groundloop!
Welcome.

The A B C connector is it the output of the two relays?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 08, 2011, 02:16:35 PM
I have been having troubles with the internet signal. Sometimes it is not present for days.

With the circuit posted by @nul points I built two different uses.
Both using the same 1.5v power source.

The second circuit can have on the before being the feedback to the transistor or trigger, a full rectifier or anything that the inventive allows.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 08, 2011, 03:21:12 PM
With the circuit posted by @nul points I built two different uses.
Both using the same 1.5v power source.

The second circuit can have on the before being the feedback to the transistor or trigger, a full rectifier or anything that the inventive allows.

Jesus

hi Jesus

sorry to hear about your internet problems - hope they get fixed soon!


the circuit suggestions i posted previously should be added to your existing circuit, rather than replacing parts of it

in your 2nd circuit  immediately above this post, it looks like you've replaced the timing feedback from the motor to the drive transistor with the switching circuit for the feedback from 12V DC to battery

the switching circuit is intended to give a short pulse every few seconds - it is not at all related to the position of the motor, so i think you'll need to also add back your original transistor and feed back from the 2nd motor coil


in your 1st circuit immediately above this post, you only show the extra circuit which allows intermittent feedback from 12V DC to the battery (but not the DC blocking circuit for the feedback of the motor coil-field collapse)

this will allow you to automate your original idea to have an occasional 'touch' connection of the 1N4007 onto the battery (ie. feedback of 12V DC to battery) - but - you will be missing out on the feedback of the coil-field collapse, which can be allowed to happen continuously

...just thought i ought to point out these issues because your latest two circuits, as shown, will not give you the best performance (and the 2nd might not even drive the motor correctly)

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 08, 2011, 03:44:55 PM
On the second one the idea is to increase the frequency 50/50 so once the signal of the oscilator goes to the motor coil and then to charge the battery with the EMF generated.

It is very clear that the two situations cant ocurr at the same time. So the battery will be maintained while the motor is cruising between signals.

I could be wrong though.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 08, 2011, 03:52:30 PM
According to your post, the first circuit I posted (1_5vCircuit07New02) needs to be integrated to this one.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nul-points on April 08, 2011, 04:58:29 PM
According to your post, the first circuit I posted (1_5vCircuit07New02) needs to be integrated to this one.

Jesus

hi Jesus

yes, that correct - *IF* you want your circuit to benefit from both forms of feedback together:

a) 12V DC connection back to battery (intermittent - like manual 'touch')

b) motor coil-field collapse energy back to battery (regular spikes)


of course, you can choose to add only feedback method (a) OR only (b) first - to measure any improvement in full battery discharge time

*then* add the 2nd suggested feedback method and re-measure any change in full battery discharge time

i hope i've explained that in a helpful way


NB. it would be very unusual if method (a) improves the efficiency - but that is why we do these experiments...

Doc Ringwood's motto:
  you won't discover new territory if you always stay on the road!   :)


all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com)
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 12:34:12 AM
Thank you @nul-points!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 12:40:31 AM
@groundloop

I do not understand the arrow going from A to B on the schematic.
If it is another relay that goes there. Why use more than one relay?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 03:49:02 AM
@groundloop

I do not understand the arrow going from A to B on the schematic.
If it is another relay that goes there. Why use more than one relay?

Jesus

Jesus,

The relay drawing is there to explain how the A, B and C connector output will behave when
the correct pulsing is done from the micro controller (implemented in software). The two ICs
to the right in the drawing is single contact electronic relays that in my drawing is connected
together to form a switching relay function as shown. Please look at the data sheets for
the ICs to understand how they work. I posted this drawing to show that in some cases we can
use electronic switching that are ready made and easy to implement. The ICs has the same
function as opto-couplers with a input LED to control the output mosfet transistors.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 01:27:43 PM
Jesus,

The relay drawing is there to explain how the A, B and C connector output will behave when
the correct pulsing is done from the micro controller (implemented in software). The two ICs
to the right in the drawing is single contact electronic relays that in my drawing is connected
together to form a switching relay function as shown. Please look at the data sheets for
the ICs to understand how they work. I posted this drawing to show that in some cases we can
use electronic switching that are ready made and easy to implement. The ICs has the same
function as opto-couplers with a input LED to control the output mosfet transistors.

Groundloop.
I will read the data sheets. But I still have questions about the circuit perse.

The output marked A, is it positive?
Are there two different output signals on B and C?

If there are two signals, then, the two separate relays inputs to be relayed must be connected to the charging diode, at least this time?

Do you have the code that suppose to run that circuit?

Forgive me for asking so many questions. But even though I can draw a circuit, I am a newbie on microcontrollers.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 03:07:09 PM
This is how I understand it will work:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 05:33:43 PM
This is how I understand it will work:

Jesus

Jesus,

May I suggest this circuit instead, since you have little experience with micro controllers.
I have not build this circuit, but I think it will work in your setup. The feed back part will only
work with the TIC106D SCR or any low trigger current SCR.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 06:05:05 PM
Jesus,

Here is a variant using a electronic relay. The relay is a opto-coupler with a LED inside
and needs to be feed pulses from a 555 IC running at 12VDC. The frequency of the 555
must be set so that the capacitor never goes above 55 volt.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 06:19:28 PM
Jesus,

Here is a variant using a mosfet transistor. The mosfet gate needs
to be feed pulses from a 555 IC running at 12VDC. The frequency of the 555
must be set so that the electrolytic capacitor never goes above 90 volt.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 07:42:10 PM
Jesus,

And finally, just using a voltage matching Ferrite transformer to get
the voltage down before feeding back to battery.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 10:53:27 PM
Thank you @groundloop!

The rearrangement of the LT ic to the left allows to play with different circuits on the right side. Excellent!!!

I have tried many diferent variations with this circuit. I added a stepdown transformer once and the battery did not charge.

But I did not use an scr circuit or mosfet.
Just to not let something unfinished I will post the whole microcontroller circuit, maybe somebody can make it work, including myself.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 11:17:59 PM
Thank you @groundloop!

The rearrangement of the LT ic to the left allows to play with different circuits on the right side. Excellent!!!

I have tried many diferent variations with this circuit. I added a stepdown transformer once and the battery did not charge.

But I did not use an scr circuit or mosfet.
Just to not let something unfinished I will post the whole microcontroller circuit, maybe somebody can make it work, including myself.

Jesus

Jesus,

Attached is software for the PIC16F88 to run two switches. It is very easy to change the software by
using MPLAB form: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en019469&part=SW007002

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 09, 2011, 11:27:26 PM
Jesus,

Attached is software for the PIC16F88 to run two switches. It is very easy to change the software by
using MPLAB form: http://www.microchip.com/stellent/idcplg?IdcService=SS_GET_PAGE&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en019469&part=SW007002

Groundloop.

Thank you @groundloop!!!

By the way I bought last year among other boards, a Pickit2 from Microchip.  I just have to give it more study time. I find very dificult the assembly programming language used.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 09, 2011, 11:38:41 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!

By the way I bought last year among other boards, a Pickit2 from Microchip.  I just have to give it more study time. I find very dificult the assembly programming language used.

Jesus

Jesus,

Yes, assembly programming may look difficult at first. But after a while you will learn to love it because
you have full control of the code and the code will be very compact and fast. And as the time goes by you
will have many subroutines that solve different problems so you will start copy/paste those. There is also
many code examples to be found on the web. Download the PIC16F88 data sheet and you will be amazed
on the things you can do with a micro controller. Start out easy, get some LEDs to blink and go from there.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 12, 2011, 02:58:48 AM
Thank you @groundloop!

Do you have for sale an already made board with the pic16f88 already on it?

****************************
This are most of the parts needed for all the experiments:

Newman Motor
PVC Pipe 3 to 4" Diameter
Bearings
Threaded bolt 1/4"
Security nuts
Big Magnets
Epoxy
30 to 26awg wire
Enamel paint
Plywood board

Protoboard
Tip31A
Led
100ohm
Neon
2200uf electrolitic

LT1073-12
1N5818
47uf electrolitic
120uh Inductor

0.1 to 0.47uf ceramic
100 to 10,000uf electrolitic
100 Turns of 0.45mm and ferrite

Ferrite toroid transformer - 100:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 60:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 43:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 36:1
1n4007   

Velleman flip flop kit
AN28 Opto Isolator
NPN Transistor

Pic16F88 Microcotroller
Board with 32Mhz Xtal
7805 regulator or 5v power supply kit
AQV252G Solid state relay
2N2904 NPN Transistor
555 IC

10uf 100v Electrolitic
Neon bulb
10ohm
1kohm Resistor
2kohm
T106D Scr
IRF510 Mosfet

0.68uf 250v Mylar

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 12, 2011, 06:55:06 AM
Thank you @groundloop!

Do you have for sale an already made board with the pic16f88 already on it?

****************************
This are most of the parts needed for all the experiments:

Newman Motor
PVC Pipe 3 to 4" Diameter
Bearings
Threaded bolt 1/4"
Security nuts
Big Magnets
Epoxy
30 to 26awg wire
Enamel paint
Plywood board

Protoboard
Tip31A
Led
100ohm
Neon
2200uf electrolitic

LT1073-12
1N5818
47uf electrolitic
120uh Inductor

0.1 to 0.47uf ceramic
100 to 10,000uf electrolitic
100 Turns of 0.45mm and ferrite

Ferrite toroid transformer - 100:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 60:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 43:1
Ferrite toroid transformer - 36:1
1n4007   

Velleman flip flop kit
AN28 Opto Isolator
NPN Transistor

Pic16F88 Microcotroller
Board with 32Mhz Xtal
7805 regulator or 5v power supply kit
AQV252G Solid state relay
2N2904 NPN Transistor
555 IC

10uf 100v Electrolitic
Neon bulb
10ohm
1kohm Resistor
2kohm
T106D Scr
IRF510 Mosfet

0.68uf 250v Mylar

Jesus

Jesus,

Let me first say a couple of words about the Ferrite toroid transformer. That one you can
wind yourself. I do not think you can expect to find ready made transformers that will fit
the specifications you need.

I do not sell anything, sorry. But I have a prototype board I can send you for free. :-)

Just PM me a snail mail address and I will send this board to you. I reckon you are able
to solder? You can find a 32KHz crystal on an old computer boards. It is a small round tube with
two wires located around the computer board back up clk battery. Attached is a image on how
that crystal looks like. So if I send you the board then you will need to unsolder the 16MHz crystal
and solder in the new 32KHz crystal to the correct pins together with two ceramic capacitors.

But before you do that, use the board as it is! Learn how to program the PIC16F88. Then later on you
can change the crystal if you wish. The prototype board will run fine from a 9 volt battery. It has a LED
on it that are fine for testing. It also have a RS232 serial D-sub connector for communicating with a PC.

I can help you with the assembler code to get you going but don't expect a life long support. LOL

Attached is the circuit drawing for this board. The board has two edge connectors, one is for the 9 volt
battery, the other is two outputs for controlling stuff. The output is 0 or 5 volt at max 20mA. So it is
enough to control opto-couplers etc. The RS232 uses a strait serial cable between the card and the
comport on a PC.

I will load the PIC16F88 with a program before shipping to help you on the way. This program will
communicate with a PC and will allow you to switch the outputs on and off by menu choice. This
program will be the starting point for you to learn how to program the micro controller.

But give me a couple of days to write that program, OK?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 12, 2011, 01:11:59 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!!!

I will pm you my snail mail.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 12, 2011, 07:34:21 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!!!

I will pm you my snail mail.

Jesus

Jesus,

Today I found a 32KHz crystal and has soldered it to the prototype board.
So now you can select from software if to run from the 16MHz crystal
or from 32KHz crystal. I will write some software to test both crystals.
Will make the software soon and test on the board and then ship it to you.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 12, 2011, 11:00:59 PM
Jesus,

Today I found a 32KHz crystal and has soldered it to the prototype board.
So now you can select from software if to run from the 16MHz crystal
or from 32KHz crystal. I will write some software to test both crystals.
Will make the software soon and test on the board and then ship it to you.

GL.

Thank you @groundloop!!!!!!!

I am very, very happy and eager to learn microcontrollers.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 12, 2011, 11:11:53 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!!!!!

I am very, very happy and eager to learn microcontrollers.

Jesus

Jesus,

Yes, micro controllers can be used to many different tasks. Very versatile.

Today I did make the software for the 16MHz version. I did discover a fault
when measuring on the board. When I did build the board then I soldered
the 5 volt regulator the wrong way around. So I have been running the mcu
at almost 9 volt. I will solder in a new 5 volt regulator tomorrow and also
make the software for the 32KHz version. I hope to get the board mailed
in a couple of days time.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 12, 2011, 11:16:19 PM
Do not worry @groundloop!
Just take your time.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 12, 2011, 11:56:21 PM
Groundloop:

What about the Arduino?  I have been reading a lot about them and it seems a lot of folks modify them with programming to do some amazing things.  I know nothing about it but was curious to see if you have heard of it.

The folks at http://hackaday.com/ (http://hackaday.com/) show many cool projects using this and, I think it is just a micro controller of some kind but I am not sure.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 13, 2011, 12:58:46 AM
Groundloop:

What about the Arduino?  I have been reading a lot about them and it seems a lot of folks modify them with programming to do some amazing things.  I know nothing about it but was curious to see if you have heard of it.

The folks at http://hackaday.com/ (http://hackaday.com/) show many cool projects using this and, I think it is just a micro controller of some kind but I am not sure.

Bill

Hi Bill,

There are many different sorts of micro controllers and also boards with mcu.
I prefer to build my own designs around a micro controller. Other people prefer
to buy boards and take it from there. It is all about a choice really. I did choose
the PIC series micros to play with.

Regards,
Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 13, 2011, 04:36:07 PM
Do not worry @groundloop!
Just take your time.

Jesus

Jesus,

The two software versions (one for 16MHz and one for 32KHz) is now done and tested.

I will ship the prototype board with the 32KHz version installed on the PIC16F88.

The board will be snail mailed to you tomorrow. Can you PM me a email address so
that I can email you the software and documentation package? The files are a little to
large to be uploaded here on the forum.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 14, 2011, 02:59:17 AM
Thank you for your help @groundloop!!!!

I will pm you my email address now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Pirate88179 on April 14, 2011, 12:05:53 PM
Jesus:

Good luck with this board, I think it looks and sounds great.  Groundloop is one of our very smart guys and I am looking forward to seeing what you can do with this.

Bill
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 14, 2011, 12:10:41 PM
Jesus,

The board went as air mail today. So you should have in a week or so.
I have emailed you the software and documentation.

Bill,

Thank you for the nice words. :-)

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 14, 2011, 08:43:46 PM
Jesus:

Good luck with this board, I think it looks and sounds great.  Groundloop is one of our very smart guys and I am looking forward to seeing what you can do with this.

Bill

I am very happy with @groundloop help.
I have now a long journey ahead, reading all the documents and learning eagle, Mplab-Ide and assembler.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 14, 2011, 08:55:30 PM
Jesus,

The board went as air mail today. So you should have in a week or so.
I have emailed you the software and documentation.

Bill,

Thank you for the nice words. :-)

GL.

Thank you @groundloop!!!!!

I received your email with the software documents and the links for Eagle, Mplab-Ide and its lots of megabytes of information.

Again as I wrote on an email to you. I will at least read three pages daily in order to grasp an understanding of microcontrollers and assembler.

Also I will do my best efforts with Eagle and Mplab-Ide softwares.
Looking at all the information I realize that I have a long journey in order to learn.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 14, 2011, 09:11:28 PM
For the benefit of the free energy community. This is a graphic that has a way of knowing what to write to address a specific pin from the picf628A using binary and basic.

The programs are using the different ports of the microcontroller to drive an alternator.
I corrected the direction of the 0s and 1s on the previos program using portB.

The two programs work individually, one uses portA and the other portB.

The 0 among the 7 ones is to tell the microcontroller to use that pin as the led output.
But it does not have the program code to turn Led on.
When I learn more I will include it.

I must say here that the information for the picf628A was supplied by @x-enrgy last year on another thread.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 14, 2011, 10:01:22 PM
Hi! I just bought Arduino UNO board with 16 MHz 8-bit AVR micro-controller. I did some programming 'back in the days' in assembler but recently I learned some C language and I can make thing work. I am in the process of building my own project but I am willing to try some of the designs presented here, so I am in!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g8MgOc8gyY (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g8MgOc8gyY) - my second day with the board (sorry no subtitles - it was a quickie) :D
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2011, 12:55:09 PM
Welcome @kehyo77!

It seems that you have something good working there.
There was a car on a tv series that has some lights on the front that worked on the way your lifgrs are behaving.

I could not understand what you were explaining on your video, but I am sure that someone on the forum understood what you explained.

About the arduino. When I was researching for a microcontoller board last year I discovered that the arduino needed a lot of other boards to work properly, or so I understood and I did not buy it.

I chose another one but it was the same thing. You need to keep buying other boards in order to make the first one to work and I could not completed my goal of getting OU or a self running motor.

Then came @groundloop and is helping me now. I hope that this time I get at least a self running motor for the benefit of us all.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 15, 2011, 05:00:47 PM
There was a car on a tv series that has some lights on the front that worked on the way your lifgrs are behaving.
Knight Rider :D http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo8Qls0HnWo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mo8Qls0HnWo)
I like the theme tune in Busta Rhymes' version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAc39Hyis0M (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAc39Hyis0M)

The Arduino UNO board is great. You don't have to buy additional hardware to get started. I works out of the box just plug it in, install IDE and you can download your program to the device via USB. It is really easy. The LED chaser example in my video is from a book "Beginning Arduino" which I highly recommend for a start. You can directly hook up logic level MOS-Fets to any of the pins to control things and you can sample feedback using analog input pins. Programming in C is not complicated, once you get your head around it, and making changes in your code is quick and straightforward. There are PWM outputs as well so you can pecisely set the pulse duration an trigger it with a feedback input.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 15, 2011, 05:56:03 PM
@kehy77

Maybe it is as you say. The problem is that I cant buy it at this time.
I have to study what I got now. Also I have spent a lot of money on the boards I got and the companies that sold them make it in a way that you must spent much more in order to get something useful out of it.

Even the programming environment that they send on the cds is incomplete or is just a trial version...

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 18, 2011, 07:23:37 PM
At last!!

I could make the eagle program to see the files!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2011, 12:10:18 AM
Thank you @groundloop!!!!!

The board arrived!!!
I need now to get the usb to com cable in order to connect it to the pc.
Also I am getting the parts on the internet.

It seems that not all the parts are on the same supplier. And some does not exist.

But I will dedicate more time to this goal.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 25, 2011, 06:37:23 AM
Jesus,

Good to see that the prototype board has arrived to you. :-)

Now you need to get a USB to comport dongle and test
the board on you computer. Almost all USB to COM dongle will do fine.
Windows XP will install the dongle driver by its self in most cases.
(If not use the driver that come with the dongle.)

Then connect the board to the dongle and start the Hyperterminal
program on your PC. Now you must set up the Hyperterminal program
to communicate with you USB dongle (and board). You select
the new port that Windows has installed and set the program
to run at 2400 bit/sec, no parity, 8 data bits and 1 stop bit.
Now connect a 9 volt battery to the board.

You can use two LEDs in series with a 330 Ohm resistor in the
output plug (pin 1 to resistor to LED to ground pin 3) and
(pin 2 to resistor, to LED number two, to ground pin 3) to test the board.

The built in LED on the board will also indicate the on/off status of the output pins.

If you have any problems with this the just email me and we will sort it out.

Groundloop.
 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2011, 02:27:12 PM
Thank you @groundloop!

I will go today to the Guaynabo town Radio Shack to ask for the usb to com port dongle.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: e2matrix on April 25, 2011, 07:21:43 PM
Hey Jesus,  Just in case you don't want to pay the almost $19 they want at Rat Shack for these there's a place I've been dealing with for years that is super cheap.  $2.99 will get you one of these and includes shipping for one (shipping is always Free at this place).  The one problem is they are slow to ship depending on where you are at as they are in China.  Expect 2 1/2 to 4 weeks for shipping to U.S. and general areas around U.S.  http://www.dealextreme.com/p/usb-to-rs232-serial-port-adapter-transparent-green-24512

As I was writing this I thought to look on eBay as sometimes this stuff ends up there from local sources and there is a place out of California that has them for $3.49 with free shipping.  That would probably be faster.  http://cgi.ebay.com/B-USB-2-0-SERIAL-RS232-DB9-9-PIN-ADAPTER-CABLE-PDA-/160523344872?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item255fefdbe8

I just know Rat Shack prices are usually insane so wanted to give you some options to think about. 
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 25, 2011, 09:19:05 PM
Thank you @groundloop!

I will go today to the Guaynabo town Radio Shack to ask for the usb to com port dongle.

Jesus

Jesus,

Just a thought, have you checked that your computer has a 9 pin d-sub comport?
Another thought, ask a friend for an old used computer with a comport. Even a
old PC with Windows 98 SE will do as long as the computer has a series port.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2011, 11:29:36 PM
Thank you @e2matrix!
Thank you @groundloop!

I went to RS and the cheapest dongle was 50 dollars. I kept asking around and the lowest price for a dongle on a mall was 43 dollars.

I asked for a diy way for the dongle and it was 42 dollars.

I went to CompUsa and found one with a DB9 side and a DB25 side (That is a serial and a parallel connection) to Usb for 23 dollars and bought it.

If I had known the ebay prices I would have bought those instead.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 25, 2011, 11:39:31 PM
I connected the dongle and run the driver setup that came on a small cd that came within the package.

Then I run the hyperterminal and it asked for a phone that I dont have (I catch the internet signal form my brother upstairs with a wireless card) I entered the other information at the next screen and it said that it was connected.

I connected the card to the dongle and a 9v battery to the card. Also I installed the Mplab ide. I have not been able to communicate with the card.

Does the card will work without it being connected to the computer via the hyperterminal and the dongle?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 26, 2011, 02:24:42 AM
@groundloop

Maybe I am doing something wrong.
I would like to know what programmer to choose.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 26, 2011, 02:28:34 AM
Continuation
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 26, 2011, 07:10:39 AM
Jesus,

You do not need to have any other program up and running except the Hyperterminal
program when testing the prototype card. The PIC micro controller is already loaded
with the software. We can discuss later on how to load a new software into the micro
controller.

First find the new port number that Windows did install when you installed the driver
for the USB to serial dongle.

1. Right click on My Computer icon on screen and select Properties
2. Click on Hardware folder
3. Click on the right middle button (right of small computer icon).
4. Click on the + on Ports (COM and LPT)
5. Make a note on WHAT new PORT windows has made for your USB dongle.

Use this port number when you set up Hyperterminal program.

Now, connect the 9 volt battery to the prototype board.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 26, 2011, 02:49:31 PM
Thank you @groiundloop!

If what you explain is to look on the device manager, I did it yesterday and today again and added the com3 to the hyperterminal.

Yesterday I tried to detect the device with the Mplab ide and could not. But you say that it is not needed at this stage.

Screen captures follow.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 26, 2011, 04:42:50 PM
Jesus,

OK, it seems that your USB to serial dongle is correctly installed.

Select port 3 in Hyperterminal.
Now set up the Hyperterminal to 2400 bits/Sec, 8 data bits,
No Parity, 1 Stopbit, and None on the last entry.

Then check that you have a connected status in Hyperterminal by
looking at the bottom of the program frame.

Now connect the 9 volt battery to the prototype board a couple of times.
A menu should appear in the Hyperterminal window.

You do NOT use MPLAB to connect to a serial device. You use MPLAB
to make programs for the PIC micro, you then compile the program in MPLAB,
thus producing a HEX file. This HEX file must be transferred to the PIC16F88
by the use of a programmer hardware like the PicKit2 or similar.
You then use the PIcKit2 program to transfer the HEX file to the PIC micro controller.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 26, 2011, 10:42:55 PM
@groundloop

I have the pickit2 board and programmer. Can I put the pic16F88 on the pickit2 board and reprogram the pic controller with one of your downloaded files?

If so which one I must try first?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 27, 2011, 12:35:37 AM
@groundloop

I have the pickit2 board and programmer. Can I put the pic16F88 on the pickit2 board and reprogram the pic controller with one of your downloaded files?

If so which one I must try first?

Jesus

Jesus,

Forget about programming the PIC for a while. The board is ready to run and has been
tested OK before I sent it to you. Your first task should be getting the communication
between the board and you PC going so that you can use the board in you settings.

The functions of the board is controlled from a menu shown in the Hyperterminal.
You should focus on getting this to work first. Without this communication the board
is of no use at all.

You can always start to change the program code later on when you have checked
out the board functions and want the board to behave differently than I have programmed it.

Please get the Hyperterminal communication between the board and you PC going first.
Did you try to connect and disconnect the battery several times when the board was connected
and the Hyperterminal was running and connected to the board via the USB dongle?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2011, 09:17:25 AM
@groundloop

I found that the battery's negative wire, even though it seemed well connected, was broken inside. I repaired it and the result is on the graphic.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 27, 2011, 09:44:16 AM
Jesus,

Great now you have the switch ready to be used.

Try connecting a LED in series with a 330 Ohm resistor
to the switch connector + on LED on pin 1 on connector.
The resistor (in series with the - on LED) to ground.
(Ground on the connector has a black marking.)

Then run the switch and adjust frequency etc. from the Hyperterminal menu.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2011, 09:55:33 AM
Jesus,

Great now you have the switch ready to be used.

Try connecting a LED in series with a 330 Ohm resistor
to the switch connector + on LED on pin 1 on connector.
The resistor (in series with the - on LED) to ground.
(Ground on the connector has a black marking.)

Then run the switch and adjust frequency etc. from the Hyperterminal menu.

Groundloop.

Thank you @groundloop!

I will try it tomorrow during the day.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 27, 2011, 04:02:10 PM
@groundloop

I just finished testing the board.

I put 2 Leds with their respective resistors on the three way connector.
One was a green led, the other a big hat led (it was what I had available)

They worked well for a few minutes then they just stop working. First the green one, then the big hat. I checked with my led checker and they are blown.

Before this happened I press the number 5 to put the program on auto run, then I tried the number seven to see if it increased the frequency and it had no visible increase on flashing speed.

I tried a couple of times hitting number 8 to decrease the speed and it also does not decrease the speed of flashings.

Suddenly the green one stop working, the big hat followed after a few seconds.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 27, 2011, 08:29:01 PM
@groundloop

I just finished testing the board.

I put 2 Leds with their respective resistors on the three way connector.
One was a green led, the other a big hat led (it was what I had available)

They worked well for a few minutes then they just stop working. First the green one, then the big hat. I checked with my led checker and they are blown.

Before this happened I press the number 5 to put the program on auto run, then I tried the number seven to see if it increased the frequency and it had no visible increase on flashing speed.

I tried a couple of times hitting number 8 to decrease the speed and it also does not decrease the speed of flashings.

Suddenly the green one stop working, the big hat followed after a few seconds.

Jesus

Jesus,

Did you connect the two LEDs as shown in the attached drawing?
Also, was the two resistors 330  Ohm?

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 28, 2011, 03:09:32 AM
@groundloop

I connected it just like that.

Before I throw any part to the gabage can, I check it.  I did so with the Leds and found that they are still working but barely visible.
I fear that the optocoupler behave the same way when I get it from the supplier. It has a led inside.

So maybe it is better to use the board with some mosfets or 2n3055 instead.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 28, 2011, 05:13:31 AM
@groundloop

I connected it just like that.

Before I throw any part to the gabage can, I check it.  I did so with the Leds and found that they are still working but barely visible.
I fear that the optocoupler behave the same way when I get it from the supplier. It has a led inside.

So maybe it is better to use the board with some mosfets or 2n3055 instead.

Jesus

Jesus,

I find it very hard to belive that the small 5 volt output from the PIC can damage
LEDs if you used 330  Ohm resistors in series with each LED and connected
like in my last drawing. 5 Volt / 330 = 15mA. Normal LEDs can handle approx. 20mA.

Did you check if the 9 volt battery went dead?

Does the on-board withe LED still work?

It is not a problem to use opto couplers on a PIC as long as the series resistors
is correct in value.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 28, 2011, 11:39:02 AM
The 9v battery is ok. The on board white led turns on steady when I press #1. It goes off when I press #2. If I press #3 it goes on steady again. If I press #4 It goes out again.

If I press #5 it begins to flash without stopping. If I press #6 it stops flashing.  If I press #5 then #7 nothing happens or if I press #5 and #8 nothing happens. (with #5 then #7 or #5 then #8 it keeps flashing at the same rate visually)

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 28, 2011, 11:40:32 AM
I would like to know how to add a code that substract 10 from the timer value each time I press the #7 with an if/then to put the timer value to 10 if the timer value is less than 0.

Also I would like to add a code that adds 10 to the timer each time I press #8 with no upper limit.

Is that possible?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 28, 2011, 02:42:51 PM
Maybe I am wrong. But I think that the increase and decrease problem is on this code part:

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on April 28, 2011, 03:30:39 PM
Maybe I am wrong. But I think that the increase and decrease problem is on this code part:

Jesus

Jesus,

If you keep the frequency up (or down) button pressed by holding the button down for a while
then you will see change in the on board LED frequency. It just take a little time to see. Also
if you have a o-scope you can scope the pulse output. There is nothing wrong with the code
because I have checked it before you got the board.

The frequency is a delay subroutine and uses two 8 bit register to form a 16 bit word.
So if you want to increase (or decrease) the frequency by 10 then you need to subtract 10
from the 16 bit word to increase frequency and add 10 to the 16 bit word to decrease the frequency.

The PIC16F88 is a 8 bit micro controller so you will need to make a subroutine that you want
to name add16 and you need a subroutine named sub16. Like this:

;***********************************************************************************
;* 16 bit add
;* adds a 2-byte value with a 2-byte value.
;* Input : AARGB0, AARGB1 + BARGB0, BARGB1
;* Output: AARGB0, AARGB1 17. bit in STATUS,0
;***********************************************************************************
add16         MOVF    BARGB1,W      ; Get low byte
            ADDWF   AARGB1,F      ; Add to destination
            MOVF    BARGB0,W      ; Get high byte
            BTFSC   STATUS,0      ; Check for carry
            INCF    BARGB0,W      ; Add one for carry
            ADDWF   AARGB0,F      ; Add high byte into DST
            RETURN
;***********************************************************************************

;*****************************************************************************
;* 16 bit sub
;* subs a 2-byte value with a 2-byte value.
;* Input : AARGB0, AARGB1 - BARGB0, BARGB1
;* Output: AARGB0, AARGB1 IF STATUS,0 is set then carry.
;*****************************************************************************
sub16        movf     BARGB1,W        ; Get low byte of subtrahend
                subwf    AARGB1,F         ; Subtract DST(low) - SRC(low)
                movf     BARGB0,W         ; Now get high byte of subtrahend
                btfss    STATUS,0            ; If there was a borrow, rather than
                incf     BARGB0,W          ; decrement high byte of dst we inc src
                subwf    AARGB0,F         ; Subtract the high byte and we're done.
                return
;*****************************************************************************

Now, these two subroutines uses some new byte variables (RAM variables) that need to be
declared in the top of the program in the CBLOCK part.

Insert:

AARGB0
AARGB1
BARGB0
BARGB1

Now the two new subroutines is ready to be used. Now you can mov the two 8 bit counters
into the match variables, call the sub16 or add16, and then mov the result back into the two
delay registers. This will increase the frequency by 10 or decrease the frequency by 10.

How to do that I leave to you because you need to learn how to make programs.

Groundloop.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on April 29, 2011, 03:07:11 AM
Thank you @groundloop!

It is one of my goals, to learn to write useful programs.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 01, 2011, 02:19:12 PM
Using @groundloop's code for the two outputs board, with basic and without using the hyperterminal I made this program in order to use the board without a PC.

The simulation gif file can be downloaded here: http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=downloads;sa=view;down=468

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 05, 2011, 05:05:00 AM
I have found problems to get the right parts.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on May 05, 2011, 05:52:06 AM
I have found problems to get the right parts.

Jesus

Jesus,

You can also use the LT1073CN8. This one has an adjustable output voltage by
using two resistors.

See: http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Cat=2556570&k=LT1073

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 05, 2011, 03:06:59 PM
Thank you @groundloop!

I dont know if it makes a difference.
The one I bought originally was LT1073CN8-12

This other replacements, maybe, are not as effective.

Now I have decisions to make and experiments to do.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 09, 2011, 03:28:00 PM
@digikey

Just one LT1073 piece and the shipping cost was about 40 dollars.

I got a good deal for three for less than 40 dollars at the factory.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 09, 2011, 03:30:58 PM
On the next chance, I will get the other parts I need.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 12, 2011, 04:26:24 PM
While experimenting with the pickit-2 programer I got to the reality that it does not program the pic16f88.

I reread the information I got and found that the thing only programs 8, 14 and 20 pin flash devices.

I will find a solution.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: itsu on May 12, 2011, 04:37:14 PM

Hi Jesus,  it does,  see:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVQ4tj-D8jM&feature=relmfu

Perhaps you use the "low Pin count demo" board which does not.


Regards Itsu
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 13, 2011, 10:02:53 PM
Hi Jesus,  it does,  see:   http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HVQ4tj-D8jM&feature=relmfu

Perhaps you use the "low Pin count demo" board which does not.


Regards Itsu

Thank you @itsu!!!

I will give it a try.  I have problems understanding the explanations on the video because it has an eco on the words you say.

The circuit you draw has only the mclr connection, I have to figure out the others.

That is a great help from you.
Thanks again!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on May 13, 2011, 10:47:43 PM
Jesus,

Find a 18 pin IC socket. Solder wires to a little connector that
fits in your PicKit2 socket. Download the PicKit2 software
programmer. And there you go.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 14, 2011, 05:24:12 AM
Jesus,

Find a 18 pin IC socket. Solder wires to a little connector that
fits in your PicKit2 socket. Download the PicKit2 software
programmer. And there you go.

GL.

Thank you @groundloop!!!
I just finished a schematic with what I understood from the posted video and wanted to know if it was correct.

But it seems that the one you posted is easier to accomplish.

By the way is it correct?

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: itsu on May 14, 2011, 01:14:52 PM
Hi Jesus,


be aware, the video i pointed at is not mine!
I too am learning to programm PIC's with the pickit 2, and ran into this video when googling.

This video is a tutorial on how to programm with a pickit 2 "in circuit", meaning to programm a pic when it is already incorperated into a circuit (here a circuit to blink a led).
Its called ICSP (In Circuit Serial Programming), look it up in your pickit 2 users guide.

Your drawing looks ok to me.


When you ONLY want to load your PIC (standalone, so without being in the circuit), then you can use the setup given by Groundloop.
Use the pickit 2 programm, and load (write) your hex file into the Pic, then "move" your pic into the circuit you have designed and it should work.

Good luck,  regards Itsu.

Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 14, 2011, 05:08:40 PM
Thank you @itsu!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 16, 2011, 02:11:18 PM
I sent for the rest of the parts. The list and the code numbers are on the graphic, just in case somebody needs it.

Not all the parts are for this project. It is that they were waiting their turn and reached their time now.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on May 16, 2011, 04:48:00 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!
I just finished a schematic with what I understood from the posted video and wanted to know if it was correct.

But it seems that the one you posted is easier to accomplish.

By the way is it correct?

Jesus

Jesus,

Yes, but you must be sure that your external +5 volt is off when you plug in your PicKit2.
Also be sure to unplug your PicKit2 when your done programming the PIC.

I always use IC socket on the PIC because I want to reuse the PIC in other circuits.
So I bought myself a plastic case and mounted a ZIF socket onto the case. I did
put my PicKit2 inside the case. So now I have a USB based PIC programmer with
a ZIF (Zero Insertion Force) socket.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 17, 2011, 02:45:05 AM
Thank @groundloop!!

I just sent for one of those zifs or zero insertion force devices.

Your programer looks good!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on May 17, 2011, 06:45:54 AM
Thank @groundloop!!

I just sent for one of those zifs or zero insertion force devices.

Your programer looks good!!

Jesus

Jesus,

Thank you. :-)

It is an easy solution to get a PIC programmer. Just remember
that when you solder the wires on the underside of the ZIF
socket then it will look like the attached drawing.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 17, 2011, 01:15:01 PM
Thank you @groundloop!!!

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 23, 2011, 06:47:14 PM
While waiting for the parts, I have been trying to make the motor to run with the 1073 ics and have not been able to make them give 12v from 1.5v.

This is disheartening.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 24, 2011, 11:48:33 PM
I could get 12v from 1.5v today.

I did it on a separate breadboard.

Now I need to get the motor running from this circuit added
to the original circuit tomorow.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 25, 2011, 07:36:03 PM
The motor does not run from a 1.5v battery, but it runs from 1.5v from a wall wart transformer.

That its not what I want.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 28, 2011, 02:47:02 PM
Searching for a motor that works with 1.5v I built a joule thief circuit motor as depicted on the graphic and  it did not work.

It only moves the rotor a liitle when the power is connected.
It does not work even with 12v aplied.

I think that it is the rotor. It is made with 2 magnetron magnets.
I will test this rotor on my old motor to see if it works.

If it do, the fault is on the wiring of this motor.
If it does not work, the fault is on the rotor.

The problem now is to get it inside the other motor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 29, 2011, 08:10:50 PM
I tested the rotor inside of the original motor and it worked.
The output at the charging diode was 1.5 volts less than the test
performed with the original rotor today.

I tried the joule thief configuration on the original motor and it does not work at all.

Conclusion:
To get the new motor working, it needs more copper windings than the original one in order to get the same amount of output.

By the way. The output today of the original motor with the lt1073 chip
to get 12v was just 4.5v.

The new motor 3v.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 29, 2011, 08:22:03 PM
The model to make the joule thief motor was this one:
I dont hnow who the author was.

I did the windings just like that and failed.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: Groundloop on May 29, 2011, 09:42:07 PM
Jesus,

One easy way to make a good motor is by using a computer fan.
(Bigger is better.) You remove the fan blades from the hub.
You also remove the electronic inside the hub so that you
end up with a nice little rotor with bearings. Then you glue
Neo magnets to the outside of the Hub, say four Neos
alternating NSNS. Use strong glue and secure the magnets
with some strong tape all the way around the hub. You now
have a good rotor with magnets. Find a plastic bottle that has
a diameter a little larger than your rotor. Cut a ring out of
the plastic to make coils on. Orientate the coils 90 degrees
to the rotor spinning direction.

GL.
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on May 30, 2011, 03:55:52 AM
Thank you @groundloop!!!

That is a very simple way of making a motor.

Jesus
Title: Re: Feedback To Source
Post by: nievesoliveras on June 07, 2011, 02:18:15 PM
Even though I have not been able to get the same behaviour from the motor I had that used to work from one 1.2v battery and when feeded back the energy produced on the coils to the 1.2 or 1.5v battery by just touching the positive of the battery with the wire coming from the output diode, it used to recharge inmediately.

At least I learnt a lot about pic programming.
Thanks be given to all the people that contributed one way or another on this topic.

Thank you all.
Jesus