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Author Topic: Feedback To Source  (Read 387346 times)

nul-points

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #690 on: April 05, 2011, 07:13:44 PM »
hi Jesus

Puerto Rico must be a very nice place to live, i'm very envious!


the circuit i posted above is just one suggestion to try - none of the values should be critical, so it would be good to see if you have any components already which might work in it, just to try it out - then, if it looks promising,  get some different values to see if you can improve performance

the inductor could be wound with, say, around a  hundred turns of 0.45mm magnet wire on a 6mm ferrite core

the diodes could be any type, eg 1N914, 1N4148, etc, but schottky will give lower losses

the decoupling cap could be in the range 0.1 to 0.47uF, say (higher value is better for lower losses)

the storage cap value also is not critical for a test, but is best chosen to suit the current drive required by the 1.5-to-12V inverter circuit (100uF might be sufficient, but i think its possible that 1000uF, 4700uF, or even 10,000uF would be better - this could be checked in different test runs)

since the storage cap will be operating at around 1.5V then a 3V or higher rating should be ok, but if the spike voltages are several tens of volts then it would be better to use say 20 or 30V WKG (or higher, if available & not too expensive)

higher value/rating storage caps should have lower internal losses but the physical size becomes an issue

hope this gives some guidance on options for using components you may already have - ideally you want to see how much difference the feedback to source makes to the battery draw, before spending too much money on new components

let us know how the testing goes

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #691 on: April 05, 2011, 08:41:11 PM »
A question @nul-points.

Does the circuit you posted gives a signal and stops? Because the problem is not that the motor stops. The problem is that the transistors stay sending the signal for too long.

If we use the fact that just by touching the positive pole with a wire from the charging diode, it charges the battery and create a circuit that do that for us, it will be runing and doing some work and keeping itself charged with the automatic touch the circuit provides.

I repeat, a circuit that mimics the wire touching to the positive AA pole is what we need.
Saddly I need to send for the LT ic again because when I left the wire connected accidentally, the coil began to give a high pitch sound and the neon was very bright for fractions of a second and the LT ic is gone.
I have had a lot of losses on my feedback to source quest.

Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #692 on: April 05, 2011, 09:09:58 PM »
Is it this what you mean?

Jesus

nul-points

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #693 on: April 05, 2011, 11:24:05 PM »
<<double post removed>>
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 11:50:21 PM by nul-points »

nul-points

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #694 on: April 05, 2011, 11:49:21 PM »
hi Jesus

>> "Is this what you mean?"

no, that's not quite correct...

instead of your previous method of connecting the transistor collector to the battery via the 1N4007, my earlier post is suggesting that you use the extra components

if you have smaller caps in the range i suggested for C2, try them first before trying largest value - 10,000uF might be too big physically (& in cost)

the circuit i posted above only replaces the 1N4007 between the collector of the transistor and the 1.5V battery

i included your existing transistor/motor connection on the left, and your existing 1.5V battery on the right to show you where to connect the new circuit - they should still be connected to the rest of your circuit as you showed earlier

all the rest of your circuit should stay exactly as it was in your previous post

<<EDIT>>
i've just seen your earlier question asking if this new circuit makes connection & then stops (you want this because the signal is on too long)

my first post tried to answer that question - in your original circuit, with the 1N4007 diode, the 12V line gets connected to the 1.5V battery- AND the LT device (via the 1N4007) when you touch that diode to the battery (or leave it connected)

this is true whether any coil-field collapse spikes occur or not - and it causes the damage to your circuit

the new circuit will only allow feedback spikes (not the 12V DC) to pass through C1, so only the spike energy will get fed back to the 1.5V battery (having been filtered first by C2 & L2)

the LT device will now be protected from the voltage of the feedback spikes

i hope this helps

regards
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 12:15:38 AM by nul-points »

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #695 on: April 06, 2011, 02:23:09 AM »
Thank you @nul-points!!!

You are a circuit magician too!!!

Now I only need to wait for the parts and the LT ic. I need to buy extra this time.

Jesus

nul-points

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #696 on: April 06, 2011, 06:50:35 AM »
Thank you @nul-points!!!

You are a circuit magician too!!!


no, just a fellow experimenter  :)

tell me - when you didn't connect the 1N4007 (between collector & battery) - did your circuit drive the motor ok without anything getting damaged? 

(obviously, the battery would discharge)

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

FatChance!!!

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #697 on: April 06, 2011, 12:52:01 PM »
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)
Everything posted or shown by this thread refers to regular SMPS electronics and it will never become overunity.
SMPS has been developed and sold for 40 years by now and during this time there has been no sightings of more out than in.

So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?

Pirate88179

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #698 on: April 06, 2011, 01:09:55 PM »
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity ??? ??? ??? ::) ::) ::)
Everything posted or shown by this thread refers to regular SMPS electronics and it will never become overunity.
SMPS has been developed and sold for 40 years by now and during this time there has been no sightings of more out than in.

So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?

How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #699 on: April 06, 2011, 01:20:49 PM »
no, just a fellow experimenter  :)

tell me - when you didn't connect the 1N4007 (between collector & battery) - did your circuit drive the motor ok without anything getting damaged? 

(obviously, the battery would discharge)

thanks
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com

The motor without connecting the feedback to the battery works perfectly and you can connect the diode output to another battery and it gets charged.
As you said the AA battery gets discharged. But again if you connect a wire to the output diode and just touch the AA battery ocassionally it last a long time. Until you get tire of comming back every 10 minutes to touch it with the wire.

Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #700 on: April 06, 2011, 01:24:18 PM »
How can you guys keep on discussing circuits like these in order to reach overunity .....
So why do you keep trying something that can't ever be overunity in any way, no matter how you "design" it?
Is it perhaps your ignorance and curiosity that's driving you all?

We keep trying instead of getting others to quit trying to improve their way of live.

Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #701 on: April 06, 2011, 01:25:42 PM »
How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill

Thank you @pirate

Jesus

nul-points

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #702 on: April 06, 2011, 02:35:39 PM »
The motor without connecting the feedback to the battery works perfectly and you can connect the diode output to another battery and it gets charged.

Jesus

ok, that's great, thanks Jesus

i just wanted to double-check that your components operate & stay ok if you don't connect that 1N4007

don't forget my comment earlier that you won't get as much energy fed back to the battery as you did before, when you now just use the motor coil-field collapse spike energy

what has been happening in the circuit is that energy from the 1.5V battery has been inverted to 12V DC and stored in your 47uF cap to run the motor

because there was a direct DC path from that cap back to the battery whenever you connected the 1N4007 to it, you were getting energy fed back in two forms

1) the coil-field collapse energy (which you want to feedback to source)

2) energy at 12V DC, which had just been converted from the battery and was then going straight back to it - and also going into the LT device (causing damage)

i believe that your circuit is intended for the 12V DC energy ONLY to power the motor

so my suggested circuit addition enables you to collect the energy from the motor field collapse spikes whilst leaving the 12V DC energy as input only to the motor

take the example you just mentioned of feeding the 1N4007 to charge a *different* battery:

the 2nd battery is not only getting charged by motor field collapse spikes - it is also getting some charge from the 1st battery (after the energy has been converted to 12V DC)

this means that the 1st battery will *discharge* faster, because extra energy is going from it 'straight' into the 2nd battery

well, the same thing happens in your original circuit if you try to feedback to the source - the battery gets extra charge from the 12V DC cap - but it also has to get extra  discharge to keep the cap at 12V!

i hope i've written this clearly, so you won't be surprised when you try the new arrangement - the important thing is to stop the damage to the circuit by decoupling the 12V DC from the feedback path so you can see how much more efficient your whole system is when you can feedback the coil-field collapse energy to the source

all the best
np


http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.com
 

FatChance!!!

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #703 on: April 06, 2011, 04:13:17 PM »
How can we?  How can you not?  If not, why are you here anyway?

Bill

I'm here to find some serious research....not crackpot research performed by ignorant hillbillies.
But perhaps I have to give up on my dream. Everywhere I read I just seem to find delusional ideas.

allcanadian

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #704 on: April 06, 2011, 05:07:46 PM »
@Fatchance
Quote
I'm here to find some serious research....not crackpot research performed by ignorant hillbillies.
But perhaps I have to give up on my dream. Everywhere I read I just seem to find delusional ideas.
For hundreds upon hundreds of years the critics have always called inventors and scientists delusional or misguided and for hundreds upon hundreds of years they have always found success in doing what the critics have said cannot be done.
I have found my work in this field to be a bit like panning for gold, we have to cover a great deal of area and material until we find what were looking for and it takes a great deal of time and patience. As well many times we find what were looking for in the most unlikely of places, it was never about delusion or ignorance to the supposed facts it is about being in the right place at the right time and being prepared to accept what we find regardless of any opinions we may have.
The fact remains, if you have never found success then how do you know the good people here never will? If we are to be judged I would be far more inclined to believe someone who has actually found success rather than the opinion of someone who has not.

Regards
AC
« Last Edit: April 06, 2011, 06:35:03 PM by allcanadian »