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Author Topic: Feedback To Source  (Read 388951 times)

Pirate88179

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #420 on: March 25, 2009, 12:15:50 AM »
I would not leave that hooked up during any electrical storm activity...but then, I guess you already know this. Just wanted to mention it in case you didn't think about it.

Bill

Bob Smith

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #421 on: March 25, 2009, 03:08:43 AM »
@ Jesus:
Please forgive me asking about what is perhaps obvious, but what type of diode are you using?   Germanium (uses much less voltage) or silicon?

Re grounding your set, I managed to run an insulated heavy gauge wire from the ground cable in my fuse panel to a setup I was playing with, and it seemed to do the trick. (I had considered drilling a hole thru the basement floor as well, but knew I'd eventually have to answer to the boss [my wife]).
Bob

jadaro2600

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #422 on: March 25, 2009, 07:18:02 AM »
A popular, yet equally effective remedy for the germanium diode is a Schottky diode - which has a voltage drop very similar to that of the germanium diodes.

I've found some Schottky's to have a voltage drop of just 0.211 volts.

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #423 on: March 25, 2009, 02:52:05 PM »
I would not leave that hooked up during any electrical storm activity...but then, I guess you already know this. Just wanted to mention it in case you didn't think about it.

Bill

Yes, I am aware of this. I will put a small gauge fuse to it so if there is an increase in current it will blow the fuse easily.
I should use a fuse on each connection, I mean the Antenna and Ground connections to be safe.
First I need to see if it works.

@ Jesus:
Please forgive me asking about what is perhaps obvious, but what type of diode are you using?   Germanium (uses much less voltage) or silicon?

Re grounding your set, I managed to run an insulated heavy gauge wire from the ground cable in my fuse panel to a setup I was playing with, and it seemed to do the trick. (I had considered drilling a hole thru the basement floor as well, but knew I'd eventually have to answer to the boss [my wife]).
Bob

Welcome @bob !
I could not get a real 1N34 germanium diode, the one that is world wide available is the 1N60. So I am trying a world war II  cat whisker diode that is made with a razor blade and a copper wire.

I cannot play with the fuse panel ground because it is not mine and if something gets damaged on it I have to deal with all the building neighbors. I need to check if the receptacles have the earth ground connected to them and maybe I can test the device with that gorund.

A popular, yet equally effective remedy for the germanium diode is a Schottky diode - which has a voltage drop very similar to that of the germanium diodes.

I've found some Schottky's to have a voltage drop of just 0.211 volts.

I have not tried the schottky diodes yet, but as soon as I can get them I will give them a try.

Thank you to all !
Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #424 on: March 25, 2009, 08:03:29 PM »
@all

I made an antenna from the window to the fence with an insulated wire.
Then I connected the radio receiver to the antenna outside of the building.
I opened the old telephone installation and connected a wire to the ground connection.
Then I installed the earphone to the radio receiver and try to get something while moving the cat whisker.
I could not get a single sound!

I brought the DMM and tried to get any voltage reading and there was not even a volt on it.
I turnet the DMM dial to 200m DCV and it did not get anything. But when I disconnected the test lead the DMM showed 0.03 ? for a moment and then disappear. I did the same test several times with the same results.

I took out my other meter that its not digital and while having the earphone on my ear, tested all the connections.
While doing so, the earphone produced some sounds each time I connected the test leads.

There was no radio sound and no voltage at all.
I need to blue the blade and try again.
Then I will try with a 1N60.

If nothing good is showed by the DMM.
I will send for a schottky diode and try again.
If still nothing good happens, I will rebuild the old receiver I made last year and try with it and my new knowledge.

Jesus

jadaro2600

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #425 on: March 26, 2009, 01:48:17 AM »
The fence is grounded, it's probably acting like a Faraday wall or something.  You don't want to be connected to it.  Unless it's wood, then that point is moot.

Here's an Idea I had.  Not recommended for permanent setups.

Get a fishing pole, and take the hook off the end, attach a weight to it and cast it over a high limb of a tree ...then let the weight of the sinker bring it back down to earth.  Then attach an insulated wire to it, and draw the wire up - you now have an aerial which can be raised as high as the limb; it can later be taken down without being permanently in the tree.

You can then use this for your antenna.  You may just want to take your experiment outside.

Never really heard of wanting to get your line in the tree before have you?

Pirate88179

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #426 on: March 26, 2009, 02:51:20 AM »
@ Jadaro:

That is a great idea, I may use that one myself.  Good thinking.

@ All:

Here is a video of my Bedini replication that I attempt to show the sounds of the rpm's through my stereo.  The thing I don't understand is that, I have a base resistor of like 460 ohms and two vr's of 5k each.  when I fire up the motor, the two vr's are closed down to their 0 point.  Once the motor accelerates, I can open up the primary resistor and it speeds up.  After a bit, I can then close the primary vr back to 0 and it goes into what I call...second gear, and really takes off.  then, I add some resistance on the primary vr and it goes even faster.  I have no idea why.

I am not attempting feedback to source yet so this is off-topic but, I would like to understand why this does this if anyone knows.  Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfprTzG5SY4

Bill

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #427 on: March 26, 2009, 06:13:38 AM »
The fence is grounded, it's probably acting like a Faraday wall or something.  You don't want to be connected to it.  Unless it's wood, then that point is moot.

Here's an Idea I had.  Not recommended for permanent setups.

Get a fishing pole, and take the hook off the end, attach a weight to it and cast it over a high limb of a tree ...then let the weight of the sinker bring it back down to earth.  Then attach an insulated wire to it, and draw the wire up - you now have an aerial which can be raised as high as the limb; it can later be taken down without being permanently in the tree.

You can then use this for your antenna.  You may just want to take your experiment outside.

Never really heard of wanting to get your line in the tree before have you?

That idea is excellent, but I have no trees near my side of the building. I instead used an idea like the one on this graphic composition.

Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #428 on: March 26, 2009, 06:26:58 AM »
@ Jadaro:

That is a great idea, I may use that one myself.  Good thinking.

@ All:

Here is a video of my Bedini replication that I attempt to show the sounds of the rpm's through my stereo.  The thing I don't understand is that, I have a base resistor of like 460 ohms and two vr's of 5k each.  when I fire up the motor, the two vr's are closed down to their 0 point.  Once the motor accelerates, I can open up the primary resistor and it speeds up.  After a bit, I can then close the primary vr back to 0 and it goes into what I call...second gear, and really takes off.  then, I add some resistance on the primary vr and it goes even faster.  I have no idea why.

I am not attempting feedback to source yet so this is off-topic but, I would like to understand why this does this if anyone knows.  Thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LfprTzG5SY4

Bill

I watched your new video and I think that what is happening is that your motor is a good flywheel. The combination on the rotor of magnets and bearings makes it to have a very good flow and when you take off the resistance it accelerates naturally more. Because it has good flywheel situation it does not decelerate when you add a little resistance to it.

That is my opinion. I could be wrong though.

Jesus

Goat

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #429 on: March 26, 2009, 01:37:25 PM »
@ nievesoliveras

I think there's a little more to it than you mentioned but the flywheel maybe part of what's happening in Pirate's setup.

@ Pirate88179

I watched the video a couple of times and that is indeed an interesting phenomenon which I have not seen on my Bedini motors, but then mine were using a 27 inch bicycle wheel with different ceramic magnet setups.

These are just my observations and please don't take them as negative criticism as that is not what is intended, only feedback.

Observations:

From what I see on your setup you have a base 470 Ohm resistor then two 5 K Ohm variable resistors (VR1 & VR2) all in series.

You fire it up and let it accelerate with VR1 & VR2= 0 Ohms.
When you increase the resistance on VR1 the rotor accelerates.
After awhile you decrease the resistance on VR1 back down to 0 Ohms and the rotor accelerates even more.
After awhile you increase the resistance on VR1 (? Ohms) and the rotor accelerates even more.

Conclusions:

There is some kind of positive feedback occuring by increasing and decreasing the base resistance but there is not enough data included to make an analysis of what if anything is happening at the batteries.

Notes:

The Bedini motors do operate like they have gears as you mentioned in the "second gear" statement but what I've observed is that at first my Bedini setups usually take about 80 or more miliamps to get the rotor turning up to speed then once it reaches a certain speed (depending on my different magnet setups) the amperage from the run battery drops as the rotor goes into second gear up to it's final speed.

The difference here is that I usually had to increase the resistance to get it to start the rotor then decrease the resistance slowly until I got it to the sweet spot then the second gear and drop in amperage would occur, yours however is quite differrent!!!

I guess the only thing I would suggest is to take Voltage and Amperage measurements on your run battery when you get maximum speed with 0 Ohms on VR1 & VR2 and see if the run battery is being depleted and at what rate. 
Also taking Voltage measurements on your charge battery to see if it's increasing, this measurement is where things aren't always what they seem though, this is where you would have to go through the charge/discharge process to see if it's just surface charge.

Anyways nice build, that's my 2 cents :)

Regards,
Paul

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #430 on: March 26, 2009, 02:23:22 PM »
Thank @goat !

@pirate
I do recommend to do the @goat's test, to use 2 9v batteries instead of the 12v ones. The reason is that the results are seen faster and more accurately.

That is why I use 1.5v to make the tests, you can see the results in seconds not hours.

Jesus

Pirate88179

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #431 on: March 26, 2009, 11:55:05 PM »
Goat:

I appreciate your observations and suggestions.  You are 100% correct in your stating of what I am seeing here, exactly correct.  As far as volts go, I have seen no change on either battery while going through the getting up to speed adjustments.  I tried to do an amp test but when I put my meter in series with the charging battery it blew the fuse and the meter was set on the 10 amps (highest) setting.  I have not replaced my fuse yet (very hard to find around here) but when I do, I will try it on the power battery as you suggested.

Hey, No one has to worry about insulting me or being careful speaking to me when they are trying to help me on stuff I am learning about.  I appreciate the information and all of the help I have received from folks on here.  I have learned a lot by reading on the side but that does not compare to the real help I have received here on OU form guys like you and Jesus.  Thank you.

@ Jesus:

Yes, I have noticed that the larger the batteries, the longer it takes to see it any changes were good...or bad.  So I agree 100%.  This is a very small coil I am using and it is supposed to be very efficient. (I am using lidmotor's design)  I have not tried to see if it will run on 1.5 volts bats yet but I am going to try it just for the heck of it.  I know it runs on 9v as that is what I started out with.  Thank you too for your help and input.

Bill

AbbaRue

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #432 on: March 27, 2009, 01:59:29 AM »
@nievesoliveras

Check out these links they may have just what you are looking for in the homemade diode setup.

Using Aluminum
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/ntype-nr.htm 

Using Zinc. This is very close to what you are trying to do. 
He says to heat the zinc with a prop. Torch first to produce a coating of zinc oxide this is were you will get the diode effect.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/zincosc.htm



nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #433 on: March 29, 2009, 02:49:14 PM »
...

@ Jesus:

Yes, I have noticed that the larger the batteries, the longer it takes to see it any changes were good...or bad.  So I agree 100%.  This is a very small coil I am using and it is supposed to be very efficient. (I am using lidmotor's design)  I have not tried to see if it will run on 1.5 volts bats yet but I am going to try it just for the heck of it.  I know it runs on 9v as that is what I started out with.  Thank you too for your help and input.

Bill

I do admire the @lidmotor work!
I know that you will succeed because you are very persistent.

Jesus

nievesoliveras

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Re: Feedback To Source
« Reply #434 on: March 29, 2009, 02:52:06 PM »
@nievesoliveras

Check out these links they may have just what you are looking for in the homemade diode setup.

Using Aluminum
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/ntype-nr.htm 

Using Zinc. This is very close to what you are trying to do. 
He says to heat the zinc with a prop. Torch first to produce a coating of zinc oxide this is were you will get the diode effect.
http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/zincosc.htm


Thank you @abbarue !
I had seen them before on one search I did.
I revisited them again.

Jesus