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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: PaulLowrance on December 19, 2008, 05:02:24 PM
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Here are a few outlines from a post at my forum.
(http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/forum/index.php?topic=33.msg172#msg172)In a minute I'm going to bump Steorn's Orbo up some more on "The List" because of what I just read from the Steorn Dec. 17th 2008 talks concerning how the Orbo technology came about. Here are a few quotes from Free Energy Truth -->
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The key word is "micro," and of course it's regarding magnetic material.
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Hi Paul,
Steorn's forum seems to be down today & I don't think it's a carbon based error. Maintenance over the Christmas period or MIB ;)?
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It's been down for me as well. Who knows, perhaps an insane debunker's bombarding their server.
"The Group" is probably not too afraid of Steorn's website. When it comes time for the next demo, then we'll see if Steorn's done their homework, but IMO they'll get their a** whipped again. It's easy to destroy. That's why Bin Laudin is giving the all mighty USA a run for its money. I don't think Steorn has a clue what they're up against. IMO they have no chance of marketing a legitimate "free energy" machine, LOL.
The only way to succeed is to give away the first design, and even that will be a challenge. I have predicted that if a legit "free energy" machine that produces usable amounts of energy was released online that not one single person would replicate it. Don't announce anything online, demo it in person, find as many people to replicate and spread the word as quickly as possible. That's the only chance. When there are enough replications worldwide, then the inventor can worry about making version 1.1 for *sale* $$$.
PL
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You know, even the domain servers for steorn.com are down,
NS79.WORLDNIC.COM
NS80.WORLDNIC.COM
Looks like their host is having issues.
PL
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The only way to succeed is to give away the first design, and even that will be a challenge. I have predicted that if a legit "free energy" machine that produces usable amounts of energy was released online that not one single person would replicate it. Don't announce anything online, demo it in person, find as many people to replicate and spread the word as quickly as possible. That's the only chance. When there are enough replications worldwide, then the inventor can worry about making version 1.1 for *sale* $$$.
PL
QFT, if i manage to get something working i've always had the idea of doing what they did in hackers writing a virus to display that information on a massive massive amount of computers, only way enough people are gonna get to see it.
"Don't worry about anybody stealing your ideas. If they're any good, you'll have to ram them down people's throats."
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You know, even the domain servers for steorn.com are down,
NS79.WORLDNIC.COM
NS80.WORLDNIC.COM
Looks like their host is having issues.
PL
I'd bet it's scheduled maintenance but some warning would have been nice - don't like going "cold turkey"!
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What Sean (Steorn CEO) didn't say is the more interesting story.
No news on a new demo since July 2007. No news on a working device at all. Why don't they repair the demo unit and show it again? Have they ever shown anyone a working non-stop device?
No news on the validation jury which has allegedly had access to the Orbo technology for over a year
No news on the validation toy Sean promised in 2007
No news on the SPDC efforts
No explanation for why Steorn never put a video of the working demo on their website
In short, all Sean did was wave his hands and say they'll be licensing the technology in 2009 to 300 engineers. Anyone can say anything. ::)
No doubt this new initiative of Steorn will take many months - as someone else said, it's the infinite monkeys tactic and Sean will drag this out through 2009. The upshot is Steorn is trying to get off the hook of creating a working Orbo (because their perpetual motion machine doesn't work).
I imagine they must also be getting close to an investor lawsuit at this point given the millions of dollars they raised and spent on Orbo.
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I thought QFT was a retired acronym since there are too many abbreviates such as quite frankly true, quoted for truth, quality family time, quality face time, quest for tech, quite freaking true, quit freaking talking, quite f--king true, and ... quit f--king talking. :o And it's also a field of quantum physics, Quantum Field Theory.
PL
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No explanation for why Steorn never put a video of the working demo on their website
To me, this is the most shocking. They went through all the expense of a huge ad to advertise their demo in 2007. The demo failed, and there was much apologizing at the scene. Lots of egg on the face.
What would I do if I had a demo that failed for an unexpected reason, and I really did have a working product? I would put a video up as soon as humanly possible to save face and show the world that I was no fraud. Why not? The decision has already been made that demonstrating the Orbo would not do damage to any intellectual property rights, so why not do it.
Only one reason - no Orbo has ever worked.
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Sean has the dream of a glorious and grandiose Orbo world presentation, and popping some video on a web page doesn't fulfill that envision.
PL
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Sean has the dream of a glorious and grandiose Orbo world presentation, and popping some video on a web page doesn't fulfill that envision.
PL
OK, and what exactly has stopped him over this past year and a half? Can't find presentation space to rent? Too many back to back meetings, can't get away for a day or two? Can't find a babysitter?
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OK, and what exactly has stopped him over this past year and a half? Can't find presentation space to rent? Too many back to back meetings, can't get away for a day or two? Can't find a babysitter?
He can't find a working Orbo. ;D
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Is there a point to such questions. We can ask such questions all day, but it doesn't prove anything. Why did it take quantum physics ~ 400 years after classical physics? Why did it take Microsoft years after years beyond their original release date to complete Vista? Why did the united states post office take longer to mail my package then it normaly does? ... ? ? ? ?
Have skeptics ever heard of Murphy's law?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murpheys_law
PL
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Why did it take Microsoft years after years beyond their original release date to complete Vista? Why did the united states post office take longer to mail my package then it normaly does?
We aren't asking for finished product. Just give us a demo as Steorn promised in 2007! Microsoft demonstrated Vista long before it shipped.
The fact they are unable to demonstrate Orbo to anyone is a good indicator it just doesn't work.
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We aren't asking for finished product. Just give us a demo as Steorn promised in 2007! Microsoft demonstrated Vista long before it shipped.
Ummm, Microsoft worked on Vista for ***years*** before demonstrating it, period. What kind of logic would you have us accept. So during our entire life, if we encounter a company or claim or whatever that takes longer to complete than expected, then we're to dismiss it as a fake or that it will never work?
PL
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Steorn is funny. They said they had working Orbos ("Orboes?"). They told everyone about the big demo. Then at the demo they said the lights were too hot, and the Orbos at the home office were in a different environment, but they worked, don't you worry.
And then we hear nothing for a long time.
Whether you like MS or not, it's not like they ever said, we have Vista running. Here it is, oops, blue screen. OK, postponed indefinitely. We understand if it takes years to develop a product, but if you say you have a working model, and you don't, that is a lie. Product has bugs, OK. But Orbo is not a matter of having bugs. There is no Orbo, and Steorn is a bunch of liars, because if there was a working Orbo, they would have shown it.
Who the hell brings just one product to the demo, anyway? Lights too hot and bearings busted? Bring out the backup and shoot in dim lights. Oh, we just brought one to our world wide demo, where we get to take our only shot and the first impression. OOPS our bad!
And how funny about not wanting to put video on the Internet - not fancy enough? Don't you remember? They had webcams everywhere. They were going to put a video on the Internet, that was a big part of the whole thing.
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Steorn is funny. They said they had working Orbos ("Orboes?"). They told everyone about the big demo. Then at the demo they said the lights were too hot, and the Orbos at the home office were in a different environment, but they worked, don't you worry.
Nah, that's there excuse. I know enough about antenna design to know how easy it would be to build a 10KW narrow beam width Yagi microwave antenna that would heat up those bearings from at least several block away.
Whether you like MS or not, it's not like they ever said, we have Vista running. Here it is, oops, blue screen.
Actually Bill Gates has seen blue screens of death when demonstrated the release of a new windows OS. Remember when Bill Gates plugged in the usb printer and boom, blue screen of death. :D
OK, postponed indefinitely.
Has Steorn announced it's "postponed indefinitely?"
We understand if it takes years to develop a product, but if you say you have a working model, and you don't, that is a lie.
Did Steorn say they don't have a working model. I think they still claim to have them. Like I said, I laughed when Steorn publicly announced their demo because given my experience with threats and such over my diode arrays I knew there would be trouble. Just because they failed at a public demo doesn't mean they don't have working models.
Who the hell brings just one product to the demo, anyway? Lights too hot and bearings busted? Bring out the backup and shoot in dim lights. Oh, we just brought one to our world wide demo, where we get to take our only shot and the first impression. OOPS our bad!
From what I heard, they said the demo design was a rush job. They wanted something pretty. Something that was 100% transparent so you could see what's happening. The other Orbo's are most likely ugly in comparison.
And how funny about not wanting to put video on the Internet - not fancy enough? Don't you remember? They had webcams everywhere. They were going to put a video on the Internet, that was a big part of the whole thing.
Yes, live cameras in a live demo in a world publicly announce over-unity machine sounds far fancier than just plopping a video on their website.
PL
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Steorn?
After spending a +2 years there (including the SPDC), I don't know much more than the rest of you, people.
An Enigma. ;D
Sorry, can't say more...
Cheers!
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The Plot Thickens...(Tm)
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The Plot Thickens...(Tm)
Hi, Chilean...
Or, the "thick plottens"?
;)
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LOL SPinner, you know we spudders should not gather in public places....
:D
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Hehe..
You know the procedure...
There will be flashes and thunder and... A BigBang at the end...
Happy Christmass to You, ChileanOne!
And a happy, healthy and all-positive (!) New Year 2009!
All the best my friend!
Spinner
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I am an optimist, are there any other? I really beleave there is an running ORBO. My conclusion about the actual situation is:
1. Demo failed, because they prepared bad and they wrote everywhere on the demo "Nothing is impossible" including the T-shirts. This must fail, because this is a bit sick megalomania.
2. The Orbo behaives like the most of the other Magnet-Motors. They run in a kind of undefined state. After putting a load on it, all fail, because, the OU-effect is not controlled properly.
3. To solve this problem takes years, if money is not running out first.
4. They also have an extra portion of greenness and euphoria. Because of there interesting findings, the could not resist to fall in.
- they immidately traveld to Africa, to look for a give-away water-pump powered by Orbo. Before having one.
- they wrote "Nothing is impossible"
- they almost droped there old business and focused with starry-eyed on there unfinished finding and spend millions (see steorn.com). this is ecumenical nonsense.
- they call themselve the first Overunity device, which is wrong.
- they expect to be responsible for new energy, nobody else, to strong ego
- they naivly faild with there demo, which shows there euphoria
and so on
...
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You forgot a step:
5. Steorn's a massive scam which they've used to fleece million from gullible investors, while deluding themselves into thinking they have a perpetual motion machine.
How anyone can take Steorn seriously at this late stage boggles the mind!? ::)
Even the 'true believers' in the SPDC have seen the light by now.
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You forgot a step:
5. Steorn's a massive scam which they've used to fleece million from gullible investors, while deluding themselves into thinking they have a perpetual motion machine.
How anyone can take Steorn seriously at this late stage boggles the mind!? ::)
Even the 'true believers' in the SPDC have seen the light by now.
What do mean by "at this late stage?" Please provide quotes by Steorn or Sean that proves whatever you're trying to prove.
PL
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What do mean by "at this late stage?" Please provide quotes by Steorn or Sean that proves whatever you're trying to prove.
"At this late stage" means nothing has happened eighteen months after the promised public demo.
You seem to put a lot of trust in quotes and talk. Sean can and does say whatever he likes. The reality is the Orbo perpetual motion machine doesn't work. Several of the people who met with Sean at the demo seemed to think he was delusional (e.g. http://www.eskimo.com/~eresrch/Steorn/final_report.text) and he fits the profile exactly.
I am certain Steorn really believed I would see something that
resembled their claim. They spent a lot of money setting up this demo
and some 2000 pounds sending me over and putting me up. There are
much cheaper ways to pull a con.
If it was a hoax, the whole upstairs would not exist, nor would Sean
have taken the time to go through all the details of how he thinks it
all works. I can not describe any of those details without breaking
the NDA, so it puts me in a fairly strange position. The flaws in the
thought process are clear to me, but Steorn considers these details
propriatary information.
My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam. It is delusion. The reason it seems surreal is
because it is surreal - we are the real part of someone elses
imagination.
According to Sean's recent talk (which is archived at http://freeenergytracker.blogspot.com/2008/12/sean-talks.html) Steorn are no longer promoting the validation jury or SPDC but now talking about licensing the tech to hundreds of engineers (aka hobbyists). It's a great approach if you just need to wring out another year.
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What you've presented is mere speculation. No legal court system would or could ever prosecute someone based on what you've present. I don't think an eighteen month delay means the orbo doesn't work. Only time will tell. If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any? I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.
BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam. It is delusion." In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.
PL
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What you've presented is mere speculation. No legal court system would or could ever prosecute someone based on what you've present. I don't think an eighteen month delay means the orbo doesn't work. Only time will tell. If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any? I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.
BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam. It is delusion." In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.
PL
No, what he presented is a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is no working Orbo and there never was. Of course no one can prove beyond ALL doubt that there is no Orbo, but that is only because Steorn is so tight with information. If you are going to bring courts of law into this, in a normal civil action, the decision is based on a preponderance of the evidence. So far, there has been a preponderance of NOTHING from Steorn, and so the reasonable observer would conclude that it is a delusion or a scam.
Nothing about the jury
No explanation of why there has not been another demo with new bearing and low light
No videos of the device at all
Not even photos of the device
Plenty of established science contradicting the few claims that have been made
So believe all you want, but it is just wishful thinking of an eternal optimist. We need something tangible to swing the evidence scale the other way.
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No, what he presented is a set of facts that would lead a reasonable person to conclude that there is no working Orbo and there never was. Of course no one can prove beyond ALL doubt that there is no Orbo, but that is only because Steorn is so tight with information. If you are going to bring courts of law into this, in a normal civil action, the decision is based on a preponderance of the evidence. So far, there has been a preponderance of NOTHING from Steorn, and so the reasonable observer would conclude that it is a delusion or a scam.
Nothing about the jury
No explanation of why there has not been another demo with new bearing and low light
No videos of the device at all
Not even photos of the device
Plenty of established science contradicting the few claims that have been made
So believe all you want, but it is just wishful thinking of an eternal optimist. We need something tangible to swing the evidence scale the other way.
Mike's statement, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam. It is delusion." was speculation.
In a court of law the prosecution needs to provide substantial evident that Steorn is a scam. There's no such available evidence. What you posted, lack of evidence, is not evidence. It's a good thing the legal system, at least here in the USA, adheres to the "Presumption of innocence," which means a person or company is innocent until proven guilty. Without that, the debunker's across the world would be burning people at the stake left and right on their misguided ill witch hunts.
PL
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Mike's statement, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither
hoax nor scam. It is delusion." was speculation.
In a court of law the prosecution needs to provide substantial evident that Steorn is a scam. There's no such available evidence. What you posted, lack of evidence, is not evidence. It's a good thing the legal system, at least here in the USA, adheres to the "Presumption of innocence," which means a person or company is innocent until proven guilty. Without that, the debunker's across the world would be burning people at the stake left and right on their misguided ill witch hunts.
PL
You know even less about the legal system than you do about science. Presumption of innocence only applies in the criminal courts. In civil courts, the standard is merely a preponderance of the evidence. And sure, there is not enough evidence to convict anyone of fraud yet, but that is because there has not been any investigation of what is behind closed doors. Anyway, no one is really talking about crimes here - we are trying to decide what is real and what is not.
And the question is not, can we prove that Steorn is a scam? The question is: is there a working Orbo? There is no evidence that there is, and there is plenty of laws of physics that contradict the claims that Steorn has made, so the conclusion: no Orbo, barring some new evidence. You want to say Steorn is legitimate, find some evidence to that effect. Until then, you are the one who is speculating.
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You know even less about the legal system than you do about science.
If you think that you know more about science, then prove it.
Presumption of innocence only applies in the criminal courts.
People are claiming Steorn is scamming people out of millions of dollars. So is it true that you are saying that would not be a crime?
You want to say Steorn is legitimate, find some evidence to that effect. Until then, you are the one who is speculating.
Please show me where I said Steorn is "legitimate?" If you're referring to my list, please read the words more carefully because it's a list in *order* of legitimacy.
PL
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People are claiming Steorn is scamming people out of millions of dollars. So is it true that you are saying that would not be a crime?
If/when the Steorn investors sue, it will likely first be a civil action. There was a recent case I saw where investors got the DA involved and made it criminal, but the bar is pretty high ($50m in that case). The Steorn scam is under the $20m mark last time I checked. Who knows? If they were stupid enough to take peoples money, they deserve both civil and criminal actions.
Please show me where I said Steorn is "legitimate?" If you're referring to my list, please read the words more carefully because it's a list in *order* of legitimacy.
LOL - so the order of legitimacy goes from almost nothing to nothing then? ::) ::) ::)
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If it's a fake or whatever, then that's not going to harm me any? I've cheered on plenty of people and companies who have failed, but at least I could say that I morally supported them. So far I don't see any evidence of scam.
False claims are harmful in general.
As a specific example - investments in some of these scams come via money managers who manage funds for people who don't have any options e.g. pension funds like CALPERS are a major investor in venture capital and hence indirectly in scams like Blacklight Power. So yes, it does harm lots of people to 'cheer them on'.
BTW, that paper, from Dr. Mike, says, "My conclusion after going through all this is that Steorn is neither hoax nor scam. It is delusion." In case you would like to know, Dr. Mike only met Sean. That's all. So Dr. Mike was speculating.
Right. He speculated in mid 2007 that based on his first hand experience (which is more than anyone here has) that the CEO is delusional.
The facts - claims of breaking the laws of physics, total secrecy, broken commitments over three years- fit Dr Mike's delusional CEO hypothesis much more than the perpetual motion hypothesis. As time goes on, my speculation tips more towards scam because at some point they will throw out a delusional CEO.
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If/when the Steorn investors sue, it will likely first be a civil action. There was a recent case I saw where investors got the DA involved and made it criminal, but the bar is pretty high ($50m in that case). The Steorn scam is under the $20m mark last time I checked. Who knows? If they were stupid enough to take peoples money, they deserve both civil and criminal actions.
LOL - so the order of legitimacy goes from almost nothing to nothing then? ::) ::) ::)
No, my diode array is at the top of the list. So it goes from conclusively confirmed to highly questionable. ;)
If anyone questions my diode array results, then contact me. We'll set up a legal business deal. If an unbiased 3rd party verifies that my diode array is producing a DC voltage across a load then you buy it for lots of $. If not, then I buy whatever you want to sell.
False claims are harmful in general.
That's where we differ. You wrongfully adhere to the weak idea that just because it hasn't happened yet in the history books that it never will. Take a stroll down history lane and you'll see the error in your thinking process. It's closed minded debunker's that do more harm than inventors.
The facts - claims of breaking the laws of physics, total secrecy, broken commitments over three years- fit Dr Mike's delusional CEO hypothesis much more than the perpetual motion hypothesis. As time goes on, my speculation tips more towards scam because at some point they will throw out a delusional CEO.
Hey, put your money where your mouth is. You think my diode array is a scam. Send me an email and we'll start working on the deal. I'll make it a huge media event. My contact page -->
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/contact/
I'll be waiting.
PL
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No, my diode array is at the top of the list. So it goes from conclusively confirmed to highly questionable. ;)
If anyone questions my diode array results, then contact me. We'll set up a legal business deal. If an unbiased 3rd party verifies that my diode array is producing a DC voltage across a load then you buy it for lots of $. If not, then I buy whatever you want to sell.
The wager you are proposing already exists in completely legal form. James Randi has made his $1 million challenge available to proponents of perpetual motion.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html)
I would personally be willing to wager with you up to $100,000, but right now I have no idea if what you are claiming even violates any laws of physics (i.e. producing energy from nothing), and I really do not have much faith in being able to collect any money from a stranger on the Internet. Anyway, $1 million is a much sweeter offer, and you risk nothing in return except for being debunked, so I urge you to take the Randi Challenge.
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The wager you are proposing already exists in completely legal form. James Randi has made his $1 million challenge available to proponents of perpetual motion.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html)
I would personally be willing to wager with you up to $100,000, but right now I have no idea if what you are claiming even violates any laws of physics (i.e. producing energy from nothing), and I really do not have much faith in being able to collect any money from a stranger on the Internet. Anyway, $1 million is a much sweeter offer, and you risk nothing in return except for being debunked, so I urge you to take the Randi Challenge.
I'm prepared to wager Utilitarian that Paul won't take the JREF challenge! ;D
Apparently perpetual motion machines are common applicants but few of them actually show up to be tested...just like overunity.com!
from http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-blog-mainmenu-97/158-the-perpetual-motion-parade.html
Occasionally, the Challenge e-mail will be swamped with very similar claims. One of these is Perpetual Motion Machines.
Most of the time, after the initial e-mail contact is made and a response sent, there is never any further contact with the claimant - presumably because they have not yet constructed the machine.
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That sounds even better yet. I'll read the qualifications. If my diode array qualifies then I'll enter it.
PL
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Moved: I created a new thread just for this topic. Please see -->
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6439.0
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For those who are interested, within a few minutes I'm starting a new thread in the News area of this forum.
PL
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The wager you are proposing already exists in completely legal form. James Randi has made his $1 million challenge available to proponents of perpetual motion.
http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html (http://www.randi.org/site/index.php/1m-challenge/challenge-application.html)
I would personally be willing to wager with you up to $100,000, but right now I have no idea if what you are claiming even violates any laws of physics (i.e. producing energy from nothing), and I really do not have much faith in being able to collect any money from a stranger on the Internet. Anyway, $1 million is a much sweeter offer, and you risk nothing in return except for being debunked, so I urge you to take the Randi Challenge.
It looks like Randi and his cronies are even afraid to answer my emails, both of them. Even if they do, they'll probably prohibit my diode array from entering the perpetual motion $1M challenge even though my claim is clearly a perpetual motion machine.
So, if you're serious about your $100,000 wager (must be a legal business contract) then please contact me, but only do so if you are serious, because I am very serious -->
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/contact/
Your $100K would go toward a good cause. It would end my present struggle in trying to design home brew semiconductor fabrication equipment. It will probably take me a year or two to work out the bugs, get fine tuned, etc. The $100K would end that struggle, allow me to purchase existing equipment.
Don't worry, we'll get a third party to handle the business contract, who will hold the money from both parties. I don't personally have $100K, but it shouldn't be too difficult to find a backer. All the backer has to do is have my diode array tested by a company to *guarantee* that it produces a DC voltage. I already know that it does, nearly 13 months of voltage measurements using over a dozen different voltage meters.
PL
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All the backer has to do is have my diode array tested by a company to *guarantee* that it produces a DC voltage. I already know that it does, nearly 13 months of voltage measurements using over a dozen different voltage meters.
PL
Slow down, cowboy. Producing DC voltage does not mean the device violates the 2nd Law. A solar panel can do that without violating any laws. So how do you propose to prove violation of 2nd Law?
And there is no way I am going to make any kind of wager without assurance that there is money on the other side for me to collect. I do not doubt your earnestness, but you must understand that an offer to get backers does not exactly inspire confidence. Backers have a funny way of pulling out when things go sour. And, if you can easily get your hands on that kind of money, why haven't you monetized your invention yet with venture capital? So maybe a smaller wager is best, say $5K.
But we can't move forward until there is an agreed-upon method of testing violation of 2nd Law. Furthermore, the burden of proof of violation of 2nd Law must be on you. I will not bear the burden of proving that your device does not violate it.
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Hi,
If a scientist makes a claim, and someone says, "How do you know ... oh dark matter isn't causing the effect?" then how does the scientist respond to that? My point being, is that I can prove the diode array produces a DC voltage across a load, and I have tried, without success, to explain away this DC voltage from other effects, known effects. Various scientists have asked if it's explained by this or that, and I have explained how it is not. ... How can I say this ... I claim to have violated conventional physics, and so far no scientist (including myself) has show the mathematics and/or experiments that shows the diode array DC voltage is explained from another effect. For example, it is easy to suggest that the voltage is caused by macro scale temperature gradients on the diode array. I have done the math to test such a theory, and it doesn't work out. If the diode array was rotated around, then according to thermoelectric effect mathematics, the DC voltage would reverse. That simply has never happened in my experiments. Over the past 13 months I have rotated the diode array in various orientations, at countless locations from my lab, to the garage, to being buried 2 feet under the ground, to countless locations in urban and rural locations. The DC voltage polarity does not flip.
So what can I say. One cannot expect me to build a diode array *chip* anytime soon on a few hundred dollars that would cool down while under load. The problem with trying to get my present diode array to cool down is that there is far far far too much mass for the amount of produced power. I already went over such mathematics with another scientist who did not believe me. He soon discovered that it would take ages upon ages for the diodes too cool down *in* a perfect ideal closed system. So even if the diode array was contained inside a perfect closed system that reflected 100% of the blackbody radiation inside a perfect vacuum then the diode array would take centuries to cool down enough to detect the temp gradient. Is there some high-tech instrument that could detect the microscopic temp gradient produced by my diode array? Perhaps, I'd love to know of such a machine. A high density diode chip made of THz diodes (microscopic diodes) is required to produce a measurable temperature gradient.
PL
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Hi,
If a scientist makes a claim, and someone says, "How do you know ... oh dark matter isn't causing the effect?" then how does the scientist respond to that? My point being, is that I can prove the diode array produces a DC voltage across a load, and I have tried, without success, to explain away this DC voltage from other effects, known effects. Various scientists have asked if it's explained by this or that, and I have explained how it is not. ... How can I say this ... I claim to have violated conventional physics, and so far no scientist (including myself) has show the mathematics and/or experiments that shows the diode array DC voltage is explained from another effect. For example, it is easy to suggest that the voltage is caused by macro scale temperature gradients on the diode array. I have done the math to test such a theory, and it doesn't work out. If the diode array was rotated around, then according to thermoelectric effect mathematics, the DC voltage would reverse. That simply has never happened in my experiments. Over the past 13 months I have rotated the diode array in various orientations, at countless locations from my lab, to the garage, to being buried 2 feet under the ground, to countless locations in urban and rural locations. The DC voltage polarity does not flip.
So what can I say. One cannot expect me to build a diode array *chip* anytime soon on a few hundred dollars that would cool down while under load. The problem with trying to get my present diode array to cool down is that there is far far far too much mass for the amount of produced power. I already went over such mathematics with another scientist who did not believe me. He soon discovered that it would take ages upon ages for the diodes too cool down *in* a perfect ideal closed system. So even if the diode array was contained inside a perfect closed system that reflected 100% of the blackbody radiation inside a perfect vacuum then the diode array would take centuries to cool down enough to detect the temp gradient. Is there some high-tech instrument that could detect the microscopic temp gradient produced by my diode array? Perhaps, I'd love to know of such a machine. A high density diode chip made of THz diodes (microscopic diodes) is required to produce a measurable temperature gradient.
PL
I don't expect you to build anything if the economics of the thing don't work out, but based on what you have said, it appears to me that you have a serious problem. Compared to you, I am a layman in the subject, but I think that my question is the exact same question that the Randi Organization would ask you, and it is a fair one. Can you prove that your device violates the 2nd law?
You are kind of dancing around and explaining why it is so hard to prove a violation, but that just gives the impression that you don't really know if there is a violation or not. You are just giving yourself the benefit of the doubt. That is not very scientific.
Look, if you claim your device generates electrical energy by capturing ambient thermal energy, then to prove a violation of the 2nd law, you must show that there is no transfer of heat from the hotter reservoir to the cooler reservoir. Better, is there spontaneous flow of heat from cooler to hotter? Come up with a way to prove that conclusively, and we have something to talk about. Randi is going to want the same thing.
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No, I am not dancing around. I can prove that it produces a DC voltage across a load. A DC voltage across a load equates to power. You are asking me to prove a negative, that it is not caused by other means.
This is too funny that the day has arrived when a *passive* diode array produces up to 0.2mV DC and conventional scientists tells me to prove that it violates conventional physics! LOL
Hello!!!! Do you think it's normal for diodes to produce 0.2mV DC inside an appropriate oil bath while inside 2 layers of metal shields in various rural locations??? :D
PL
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Maybe I should just tell the world to go shove it and let you people continue polluting the planets air, destroying species, and the endless junk humanity is so good at. Hide your heads in your dirt holes while you dream up excuses to ignore the obvious.
PL
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No, I am not dancing around. I can prove that it produces a DC voltage across a load. A DC voltage across a load equates to power. You are asking me to prove a negative, that it is not caused by other means.
This is too funny that the day has arrived when a *passive* diode array produces up to 0.2mV DC and conventional scientists tells me to prove that it violates conventional physics! LOL
Hello!!!! Do you think it's normal for diodes to produce 0.2mV DC inside an appropriate oil bath while inside 2 layers of metal shields in various rural locations??? :D
PL
I believe that you can produce voltage. I just suspect that you are capturing ambient heat energy, ultimately coming from the Sun, and you are cooling your environment as you do so, though perhaps not measurably, as the Sun is able to restore the heat you drain quicker than you can measure any loss. All this is in conformance to known laws. Until you show otherwise, the 2nd Law stands, whether your device produces power or not.
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Maybe I should just tell the world to go shove it and let you people continue polluting the planets air, destroying species, and the endless junk humanity is so good at. Hide your heads in your dirt holes while you dream up excuses to ignore the obvious.
PL
Plenty of people are working on solar, wind, hydro power solutions. Show how yours is superior. Right now, you cannot, and until you can, no one who matters is going to take notice. The very real possibility of the situation is that what you have is inferior to solar. Your efforts to garner support for your theory are commendable, but is completely understandable if no one takes up the banner. Maybe you should take your own idea further before expecting others to invest time and money into it.
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I believe that you can produce voltage. I just suspect that you are capturing ambient heat energy, ultimately coming from the Sun, and you are cooling your environment as you do so, though perhaps not measurably, as the Sun is able to restore the heat you drain quicker than you can measure any loss. All this is in conformance to known laws. Until you show otherwise, the 2nd Law stands, whether your device produces power or not.
According to conventional physics, diodes convert *temperature gradients* into DC, not ambient heat. There must be a gradient. Where is that temperature gradient coming from?
PL
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Plenty of people are working on solar, wind, hydro power solutions. Show how yours is superior. Right now, you cannot, and until you can, no one who matters is going to take notice. The very real possibility of the situation is that what you have is inferior to solar. Your efforts to garner support for your theory are commendable, but is completely understandable if no one takes up the banner. Maybe you should take your own idea further before expecting others to invest time and money into it.
Who are you kidding? Passive diodes heavily shielded in an oil bath in rural areas are not supposed to produce a DC voltage across a load. Solar doesn't work during the night. Solar does not work well at all when there are clouds in the sky. Solar does not work indoors. According to my calculations based on the best available small signal semiconductor physics, a heavy doped n-InSb Palladium Schottky diode with a contact area of 30nm x 30nm would produce over 4100 watts/m^2. Compare that to solar cells with a yearly average in Sunny California of 17 watts/m^2. No comparison. Diode array chips will work anyplace, mobile, stationary in complete darkness. :)
Utilitarian, I think you're working too hard to debunk this. You have not said anything to disprove it. Fact still remains that my diode array produces a DC voltage across a load and no scientists has shown any math or experiments that explain it away with conventional physics. Your claims that it is heat source (temp gradient) from the Sun is just a claim. In the science community that is called handwaving. I have done the math, and your temp gradient idea is false, it does not explain my diode array. Do you have another explanation?
PL
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Who are you kidding? Passive diodes heavily shielded in an oil bath in rural areas are not supposed to produce a DC voltage across a load. Solar doesn't work during the night. Solar does not work well at all when there are clouds in the sky. Solar does not work indoors. According to my calculations based on the best available small signal semiconductor physics, a heavy doped n-InSb Palladium Schottky diode with a contact area of 30nm x 30nm would produce over 4100 watts/m^2. Compare that to solar cells with a yearly average in Sunny California of 17 watts/m^2. No comparison. Diode array chips will work anyplace, mobile, stationary in complete darkness. :)
Utilitarian, I think you're working too hard to debunk this. You have not said anything to disprove it. Fact still remains that my diode array produces a DC voltage across a load and no scientists has shown any math or experiments that explain it away with conventional physics. Your claims that it is heat source (temp gradient) from the Sun is just a claim. In the science community that is called handwaving. I have done the math, and your temp gradient idea is false, it does not explain my diode array. Do you have another explanation?
PL
I have a solar calculator that works indoors. Can your device produce enough power to run a calculator? Show us a practical application, and someone might take notice. I cannot understand why you won't do this.
You say you can theoretically produce 4100 watts over a square meter, well, what's stopping you? If you can get access to $100K from friendly investors, why don't you get it and make this happen?
And I think you have it backwards. Of course no scientist has done the math to disprove your theory. No scientist cares. Even on this board, where you would get the most sympathy, I am the only one engaging you in any serious discussion, and I am a skeptic. Show a practical application, and someone might take you seriously.
There have been thousands before you at the stage you are now, thinking they have something but then unable to make anything useful out of it. So it's hard to get excited. Make your device run a simple calculator, then a cell phone, then a computer, then a desklamp, and you will have the whole world talking.
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Can your device produce enough power to run a calculator? Show us a practical application, and someone might take notice. I cannot understand why you won't do this.
I shouldn't have to show a scientist a device that generates usable amounts of power in order to prove the concept.
You say you can theoretically produce 4100 watts over a square meter, well, what's stopping you? If you can get access to $100K from friendly investors, why don't you get it and make this happen?
Obvious answer. I've answered countless times.
There have been thousands before you at the stage you are now, thinking they have something but then unable to make anything useful out of it. So it's hard to get excited. Make your device run a simple calculator, then a cell phone, then a computer, then a desklamp, and you will have the whole world talking.
Name one person who has shown the conventional mathematics and who the experiments to prove that it produces more power than consumed? You can't because nobody has done it yet, until now.
PL
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You know, before I built the diode array, the skeptics and scientists said it would produce zero volts DC across a load. Before I built the diode array, I made a prediction that when I proved it produces a DC voltage across a load that the skeptics would change their tune to "Make it produce usable amounts of power." So what's the next step? When I complete the semiconductor fabrication equipment, and successfully build a diode array chip, will I just get a bullet in my head?
PL
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Plenty of people are working on solar, wind, hydro power solutions. Show how yours is superior. Right now, you cannot, and until you can, no one who matters is going to take notice. The very real possibility of the situation is that what you have is inferior to solar. Your efforts to garner support for your theory are commendable, but is completely understandable if no one takes up the banner. Maybe you should take your own idea further before expecting others to invest time and money into it.
What Utilitarian is telling you is that companies want a fully working device handed to them on a silver platter. The companies want you to handle all of the risk of development, and if you manage to come up with a miracle device, then they would be interested in throwing a small percentage of the amount of money that they will make off of your device your way.
My advice to you is to work for a company, getting a pay check to fund your device, and develop your device on your own. When you have it working, don't take it to companies. Take it to a manufacturer and offer them a percentage and you can then proceed to put those companies that were lazy, wanting a risk free ride, out of business.
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What Utilitarian is telling you is that companies want a fully working device handed to them on a silver platter. The companies want you to handle all of the risk of development, and if you manage to come up with a miracle device, then they would be interested in throwing a small percentage of the amount of money that they will make off of your device your way.
My advice to you is to work for a company, getting a pay check to fund your device, and develop your device on your own. When you have it working, don't take it to companies. Take it to a manufacturer and offer them a percentage and you can then proceed to put those companies that were lazy, wanting a risk free ride, out of business.
I appreciate the info and advice Liberty, but how much money would the middle eastern countries lose from such a "free energy" machine? You have heard of hit men, correct? You're aware their are a wide range of hit men, from the cheapos to the high tech mucho expensive. Albeit, there's always an associated risk of being caught, or even leaving a paper trail, but given the last moment, it's probably worth it to save ones trillions of dollars. People have been killed for far much less in the middle east. Although it may appear to be a glorious safe and happy world out there ... who am I kidding, look at the news, LOL. I would give maybe 0.00001% chance of a single person such as myself successfully marketing a "free energy" machine. Maybe an established company such as Sony could pull it off. Heck, maybe even a company such as Steorn could pull it off, but I doubt it.
PL
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My advice to you is to work for a company, getting a pay check to fund your device, and develop your device on your own.
I forgot to add that your above advice is good, but it would take over $100000 to buy premade equipment. That may be the path I take, work a few years, save up, and dump a $100 grand, gulp. I have a few thousand dollars still left, which is supposed to be for living, car insurance, etc., but I'll spend maybe $1000 to build a home brew semiconductor fab setup, and see what happens. Buy a cheap welder, make my own diffusion pump, everything except for the rotary pump that Harbor Freight has for $70. I would much rather come up with the exact plans so that anyone could make their own diode array chips.
PL
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I appreciate the info and advice Liberty, but how much money would the middle eastern countries lose from such a "free energy" machine? You have heard of hit men, correct? You're aware their are a wide range of hit men, from the cheapos to the high tech mucho expensive. Albeit, there's always an associated risk of being caught, or even leaving a paper trail, but given the last moment, it's probably worth it to save ones trillions of dollars. People have been killed for far much less in the middle east. Although it may appear to be a glorious safe and happy world out there ... who am I kidding, look at the news, LOL. I would give maybe 0.00001% chance of a single person such as myself successfully marketing a "free energy" machine. Maybe an established company such as Sony could pull it off. Heck, maybe even a company such as Steorn could pull it off, but I doubt it.
PL
That's just paranoia. You have already published the entire theory behind your device. Your website is unharmed. No one cares: not the bad guys, not the good guys. Why? Because there is no evidence of any free energy going on. By "free energy", I mean energy created from nothing.
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That's just paranoia.
Says you. Fact: Hit men exist. Fact: Middle eastern countries have trillions to lose with a "free energy" machine. Fact: The middle east has been a hot bed for extreme violence for millenniums. What interest do you have in attempting to deny such facts. What interest do you have to spend so much of your time trying to debunk my research.
Your website is unharmed.
Hammering a site is not a smart move. It's usually done by pranksters. Although I have had a big problem with data changing on my sites from the beginning, but that went away when I set up various traps. There's a note in one of my peswiki discussions made by a person saying that my data was missing. I've had countless problems with my data changing on my sites. IMO it's a dumb thing to do. Why would anyone want to be so dumb by taking a chance of being caught? They are basically shouting out their intent. I've been a system admin since 1997 on Unix servers. It wouldn't take me and my web hosting company much time to track down the source hammering the site. My stuff is also on Google servers. Google would be all over anyone trying to hammer their servers.
No one cares: not the bad guys, not the good guys. Why? Because there is no evidence of any free energy going on. By "free energy", I mean energy created from nothing.
I never said the energy comes from nothing. The energy comes from ambient thermal energy. Please stop continually throwing in misinformation about my research. You know too well exactly what my claim is, that the energy comes from ambient thermal energy.
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Says you. Fact: Hit men exist. Fact: Middle eastern countries have trillions to lose with a "free energy" machine. Fact: The middle east has been a hot bed for extreme violence for millenniums. What interest do you have in attempting to deny such facts. What interest do you have to spend so much of your time trying to debunk my research.
Hammering a site is not a smart move. It's usually done by pranksters. Although I have had a big problem with data changing on my sites from the beginning, but that went away when I set up various traps. There's a note in one of my peswiki discussions made by a person saying that my data was missing. I've had countless problems with my data changing on my sites. IMO it's a dumb thing to do. Why would anyone want to be so dumb by taking a chance of being caught? They are basically shouting out their intent. I've been a system admin since 1997 on Unix servers. It wouldn't take me and my web hosting company much time to track down the source hammering the site. My stuff is also on Google servers. Google would be all over anyone trying to hammer their servers.
I never said the energy comes from nothing. The energy comes from ambient thermal energy. Please stop continually throwing in misinformation about my research. You know too well exactly what my claim is, that the energy comes from ambient thermal energy.
My point is that you have published all this info on how to make your device, and you are not dead yet, and your site continues to post this trillion dollar information. There is really nothing more we need to know to make your device - you have posted it all. We just need to make it on a larger scale. So why is your site still up and why are you still alive? The damage you are doing is as large now as it will ever be. Why have they not suppressed you?
OK, if the energy is not from nothing, then there is a very finite limit to it. We cannot power things on a massive scale using ambient thermal energy. First of all, there is not that much of it, and second, we need thermal energy to live comfortably and not screw up the environment with wild temperature fluctuations. So I do not see how this thing of yours is of much use. I mean it would be nice if instead of air-conditioning my home, which costs energy, I could instead drain it of heat and produce energy. But I doubt there would be that much energy to gain from the process. And to violate the 2nd law, there would not be a drain from the hotter reservoir anyway, so maybe the device would not even be useful to cool the home.
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My point is that you have published all this info on how to make your device, and you are not dead yet, and your site continues to post this trillion dollar information. There is really nothing more we need to know to make your device - you have posted it all. We just need to make it on a larger scale. So why is your site still up and why are you still alive? The damage you are doing is as large now as it will ever be. Why have they not suppressed you?
The answer is obvious, and should go without saying. Do I have a chip that proves it provides useful amounts of power. You already know the answer to that. So why are you trying to hard to debunk these simple facts. No offense intended, but you continually miss the obvious. You would never make a good private investigator, or FBI agent, etc. Grin
We'll never know with 100% certainty the answer until someone invents a "free energy" machine that will provide global free energy. Until then, please do not try to debunk simple facts -->
Again. Fact: Hit men exist. Fact: Middle eastern countries have trillions to lose with global "free energy." Fact: The middle east has been a hot bed for extreme violence for millenniums.
OK, if the energy is not from nothing, then there is a very finite limit to it.
Ambient thermal energy comes from our Sun.
We cannot power things on a massive scale using ambient thermal energy.
Yes we can. One small cubic meter of common matter on Earth has over 1 billion joules of ambient thermal energy. Water has significantly more. That is moot because such technology does not destroy or create ambient thermal energy, it merely moves it. Furthermore, the Sun sustains ambient thermal energy. A stacked diode array chip the size of a shoe box could power an entire company.
utilitarian, you're trying to hard.
PL
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[sorry, removed double post]
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I created a thread, title What to do IF you invent a "Free Energy" machine
http://greenselfreliantenergy.com/forum/index.php?topic=120.0