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Author Topic: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.  (Read 80383 times)

Offline hoptoad

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #120 on: December 02, 2012, 10:13:18 PM »
snip...
similarly, one cannot be 'overdead'...   ;)
Even though, that's how I often feel on some Monday Mornings!
Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #121 on: December 02, 2012, 10:16:36 PM »
I have always understood the term "overunity" to mean:  over=above and unity=one or a whole, 100%.
and the impossibility of the word is then obvious.  as much as the coach wants you to give '110%'...  you cannot. you can only give him 100% or less than, but not more than.

that is my point. the word 'overunity' itself is nonsensical based upon ANY of the agreed upon definitions of 'unity'.  thus, either a new and more appropriate word needs to be coined OR a new definition needs to be amended to ol' websters.

Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2012, 10:24:52 PM »
and the impossibility of the word is then obvious.  as much as the coach wants you to give '110%'...  you cannot. you can only give him 100% or less than, but not more than.

that is my point. the word 'overunity' itself is nonsensical based upon ANY of the agreed upon definitions of 'unity'.  thus, either a new and more appropriate word needs to be coined OR a new definition needs to be amended to ol' websters.

But you have to remember, it is not impossible, since you are not performing by yourself.  Therefore, you are not giving more than 100% yourself, it is added to another free energy source that makes the combined output appear as though it is more than the original 100%.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #122 on: December 02, 2012, 10:24:52 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #123 on: December 02, 2012, 10:36:47 PM »
But you have to remember, it is not impossible, since you are not performing by yourself.  Therefore, you are not giving more than 100% yourself, it is added to another free energy source that makes the combined output appear as though it is more than the original 100%.
oh god...  ::)  here we go again...

can the team give more than 100% ? they are, according to your logic, not "performing by themselves"...  ;)

Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2012, 10:47:48 PM »
oh god...  ::)  here we go again...

can the team give more than 100% ? they are, according to your logic, not "performing by themselves"...  ;)

But they are performing as one, a Whole, 100%.  In this case the whole can perform more than the 100% input that was externally added.  It does omit the extra % added by the free energy source, as measured at the output, since the free energy source is not counted as input or as the whole from the beginning.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #124 on: December 02, 2012, 10:47:48 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #125 on: December 02, 2012, 10:54:32 PM »
But they are performing as one, a Whole, 100%.
and yet... they cannot give more than 100%. neither as individuals nor as a whole.

Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2012, 11:08:24 PM »
But they are performing as one, a Whole, 100%.  In this case the whole can perform more than the 100% input that was externally added.  It does omit the extra % added by the free energy source, as measured at the output, since the free energy source is not counted as input or as the whole from the beginning.

So in this sense, the whole measured output can exceed 100% of the externally added input (not counting the free energy source, since it is usually conserved until the device operates).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #126 on: December 02, 2012, 11:08:24 PM »
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Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #127 on: December 02, 2012, 11:21:00 PM »
So in this sense, the whole measured output can exceed 100% of the externally added input (not counting the free energy source, since it is usually conserved until the device operates).
oh god...  ::) here we go AGAIN...

we ALREADY have terms like COP and such to describe what it is you are trying to say. if you insist upon using the term overunity in the context you are using it in you will need to come up with a cogent definition. so far, you have not.

Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2012, 11:28:12 PM »
oh god...  ::) here we go AGAIN...

we ALREADY have terms like COP and such to describe what it is you are trying to say. if you insist upon using the term overunity in the context you are using it in you will need to come up with a cogent definition. so far, you have not.

It's good to see you call out to God when you get stressed, but that is another thread... 

Do you have any suggestions, that you can agree with, now that we know what these devices do?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #128 on: December 02, 2012, 11:28:12 PM »
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Offline evolvingape

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #129 on: December 02, 2012, 11:41:14 PM »
it would be COP > 1...

with regards to 'overunity'. this is a made up compound word. what 'unity' means or 'is', was never defined by the originator of the term 'overunity'. if unity is taken to mean what it traditionally means, there can be no such thing as 'overunity'...   similarly, one cannot be 'overdead'...   ;)

Correct again!

I will explain why another time, I'm going to bed. I will let you and Liberty duke it out first, it is quite clear to me who understands, and who doesn't.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2012, 11:54:34 PM »
It's good to see you call out to God when you get stressed, but that is another thread... 

Do you have any suggestions, that you can agree with, now that we know what these devices do?
it's not stress... ::) it's frustration. i figured something as nonsensical as 'god' would fit well with your nonsensical definition of 'overunity'.

what devices? and what SPECIFICALLY do they do?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #130 on: December 02, 2012, 11:54:34 PM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #131 on: December 03, 2012, 12:06:31 AM »
Correct again!

I will explain why another time, I'm going to bed. I will let you and Liberty duke it out first, it is quite clear to me who understands, and who doesn't.

I understand and agree with what you both are referring to.  You can't get 110% out of something that can only operate at 100% at most (usually much less).  It depends on your point of view as to how you understand the term overunity.  Yours is one way.  Mine is another.  However I use "electrical efficiency" because that is the desired unit that I choose to use for measurement.  I see you are looking for a "perfectionist" definition that is absolute.  COP, if I understand it correctly, is too broad of a term in my view, as used with air conditioning in comparison, it may be comparing apples with oranges.

Offline Liberty

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #132 on: December 03, 2012, 12:31:20 AM »
it's not stress... ::) it's frustration. i figured something as nonsensical as 'god' would fit well with your nonsensical definition of 'overunity'.

what devices? and what SPECIFICALLY do they do?

"what devices? and what SPECIFICALLY do they do?"

This topic would "exceed" the current discussion topic.

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #133 on: December 03, 2012, 12:40:29 AM »
"what devices? and what SPECIFICALLY do they do?"

This topic would "exceed" the current discussion topic.
then just name one...  ::)

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: "Free energy" and "Overunity" We need a definition.
« Reply #134 on: December 03, 2012, 12:56:52 AM »
I understand and agree with what you both are referring to.  You can't get 110% out of something that can only operate at 100% at most (usually much less).
no, i don't think you do or you wouldn't be arguing what it is that you are arguing...

It depends on your point of view as to how you understand the term overunity.  Yours is one way.  Mine is another.  However I use "electrical efficiency" because that is the desired unit that I choose to use for measurement.
and this is EXACTLY why this thread was created. definitions, especially scientific  (ie:things that are observable and measurable) ones, are NOT dependent upon "point of view". words have definitions so that we are all on the same page when using a word. this is the fundamental basis of language.

I see you are looking for a "perfectionist" definition that is absolute.
wrong. i'm looking for an agreeable definition that suits the purpose and context and isn't open to "interpretation"... this is science, not religion.

COP, if I understand it correctly, is too broad of a term in my view, as used with air conditioning in comparison, it may be comparing apples with oranges.
"as used with air conditioning in comparison" to what exactly?



 

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