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Author Topic: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind  (Read 117102 times)

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 03:42:27 PM »

Quote
But it is not producing its own energy it is getting it from the treadmill


Certainly not 'all' of it.  In at least one of the videos, it continuously runs to the top of the treadmill up an incline.   I suspect there's more than meets the eye here.


TS


P.S.  I'm unfamiliar with "friction gravity".....?

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2008, 03:42:27 PM »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 04:49:10 PM »
@ allcanadian:

I agree with you.  Hey, I just figured out why this won't work in a gym on a flat floor.  NO WIND!  Ok, so I may be a little slow, but I usually get there eventually. Ha ha.

Bill

Offline PhiScience

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 07:48:32 PM »
Hi

http://home.att.net/~rcsailcars/index.htm
This looks like a lot more fun to play with, and not only can they travel faster than the wind going downwind but also they can travel back upwind.

There are many good sites on the web that can teach you how to get more energy from your sail or airfoil like this one.
http://www.sailingworld.com/from-the-experts/boat-speed/unlocking-the-mystery-of-sail-controls-1000065648.html

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 07:48:32 PM »
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Offline TechStuf

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 08:45:10 PM »

Not bad, but I think Stuttgart's efforts are, by comparison, fantastic....

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/08/080827104702.htm

64% of windspeed achieved upwind is....in a word, phenomenal.


TS

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 08:54:06 PM »
@ TechStuf:

That was really cool.  It appears this vehicle works along the same principle as the smaller treadmill "toys".  Of course, this one has pitch controlled propellers and the prop can be spun around backwards so I can see how this would work.  Thanks for posting this.  That vehicle is very advanced and I am happy to know about it.

Bill

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 08:54:06 PM »
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Offline PhiScience

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 09:16:36 PM »
@ TechStuf:

WOW!!  Traveling directly into the wind without tacking.
 You are right “phenomenal”.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 02:30:42 AM »
They have got it now.
Selfacceleration and driving faster than the wind.

This proves that that system is overunity I would say:

See their 3 new videos:

http://www.youtube.com/user/TraderTurok

Well done !

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #21 on: March 26, 2010, 02:30:42 AM »
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Offline Rapadura

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2010, 04:06:54 PM »
I just watched:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aDzWh9J1dk4

And I have to ask:

A windsurf board mounted on wheels, with a big sail, can not achive a greater velocity than this "wind car"?

Another question: the terrain is downhill?



Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2010, 05:40:55 PM »
There have been ice skaters standing inside wings (a whole race scene even), reaching up to 4x the speed of wind, by going neither down or up wind. Lateral tracking on the ice, low friction. Approaching the DOWNWIND velocity I suppose, but adding a lateral vector that happens to be great (90 degrees if possible would offer infinite speed).

As a tall man, and a former mountainbike racer, I've had odd things happen in tailwind. One partical race, on a beach, very fierce stable tailwinds, I was hitting pain threshold (high cadance) at 55kph. I did that for half an hour. Near the turnaround point I wanted to finally catch up with the group of riders in front of me. I decided to hit 60, going through the pain, as 55 was our mutual cruising speed apparently. When I (nearly) hit 60, I gave up, the pain was too great for me, being halfway into a race. However, I did not slow down to equilibrium as quickly as one would expect. I "sailed" towards the group, after the initial push to reach the speed. I don't yet really know how P=MV2 works, but I but it may be part of it. Is it really harder to accelerate a mass from 30-60 than 0-30, excluding friction?

If the propellor mis-matches the wind and ground speeds, I can imagine a lateral thrust component is created. Or in simpler terms, the prop bend the wind around, verhicle is hit from the side, and gets to sail the side winds every sailor and surfer spends his days seeking.

This stuff is amazing. understanding it, may bring new propellor shapes that will enable us to just travel a lightweight cart on a windy day. Very fast down and along the wind, still OK agianst the wind. I was aware of the against the wind vehicles, and thought them up as a kid. Just didn't know at the time it was not down yet. A simple matter of gearing down the wheel axle speed relative to the propellor (air speed). No odd thigns happen there, it's not like it goes faster than a balloon downwind.

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #23 on: March 27, 2010, 05:40:55 PM »
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Offline triffid

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #24 on: March 29, 2010, 07:57:13 AM »
test

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2010, 12:57:24 PM »
Hmmm.....

A sail [propeller] going "across' the wind makes its own wind [apparent wind]

Thats why ice boats can go 5 times wind speed [chasing 200 mph record now]

no OU just some smart fellows having fun with apparent wind and a sail [propeller].
Have they gone upwind yet?[if not they will ,if they can limit losses enough]

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #25 on: March 29, 2010, 12:57:24 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #26 on: March 29, 2010, 01:09:42 PM »
I read and watched what I could find on this topic yesterday.
Apparently, soon a DDWFTTW speed of 2+ times the wind speed, downwind, will be confirmed. Expected short-term records are expected around 3x wind speed.

It seems to be a matter of using the push of the wind, and minimizing friction.

Directly against the wind, Aeolus racers are working to be the first to reach 100% the wind speed, heading into it. Harder to reach than 2x downwind due to the match involved, but apparently the math does not offer a maximum speed to be attained, either away from or into the wind.

The way I simplify it for myself:
- Using a big fan to propel a tiny car. the mind breaking is that the big fan is ON the small car. And we need to remember that a spinning fan has a different drag than a garage door.

This research undertaken on private and corporate budgets is great towards making wind powered transport partly viable.
Seems that a car with a collapsible prop on the roof could be put to great use both in tail- and headwind to reduce fuel consumption. Sensors and GPS could automate this. Detect a significant headwind route, and deploy the prop to make the best of the situation. On a heavy bulky car efficiency levels will be lower, but it could prove worthwhile. I have some thoughts on sidewind mods for existing vehicles as well. Side wind really slows down a vehicle, sometimes more than headwind. Yet, sailors go faster in those conditions. So, deploy telescopic chimey air foils. Simple levers could on-the-fly adjust orientation. Deployment could be accomplished largely on wind power directly.
And, WHY would a parked car in a wind parking lot (aren't they all) not fill up some batteries while waiting for the owner to complete work or shopping? We can't place stationary windmills on parking lots, but a windmill is stealing nothing from anyone.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #27 on: March 29, 2010, 05:41:28 PM »
Hi All,
it has nothing to do with the wind !

Look at the videos on the automatic exercise treeadmill belt.
There is NO WIND !

But the vehicle drives faster than the treadmill belt !

It has in my opinion to do with the gearing
of the propellor to the wheels and with the
inertia of the propellor mass and the wheels.

Somehow the gearing transmission factors must be right
to the thrust the propellor is generating from the rotation.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #28 on: March 29, 2010, 06:17:30 PM »
They just posted new videos:

See for example this one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=86vhmTp7tKU

There the truck pushing it to start drives just 14 miles/hour but the vehicles just accelerates faster than it.

So you see, it is selfaccelerating and also drives faster than the wind !

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #29 on: March 29, 2010, 06:25:10 PM »
Stefan
Quote:

"Look at the videos on the automatic exercise treeadmill belt.
There is NO WIND !"
-----------------------------------
Ouch!!
That hurts my head!
hard to get your brain around that.
So this is no hoax [the treadmill]!

Seems impossible !
Although I know it is, having sailed my 38 foot catamaran race boat at almost twice wind speed any time I want ,with almost 80 foot of hull dragging along in the water.

Only stands to reason something like this is possible with the proper
set up .
Whats next ?flying without a motor?
"Apparent wind "
WOW!!
Thanks ,Its good to see someone think this far out of the box
And get seemingly impossible results!

Chet
PS
Looks like we'll be putting propellers on the race boats [sail]  ;D

 

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