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Author Topic: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind  (Read 121301 times)

Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2010, 07:26:44 AM »
a vertical wind turbine would probably work better!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #105 on: April 21, 2010, 07:26:44 AM »

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #106 on: April 21, 2010, 01:30:43 PM »
Cloxxi
Quote:

If you see a car, or a building without turbine, energy is being wasted right there.
----------------------------
Very true ,we are spoiled ,if wind was all we had we would never waste it.

The tides and the wind they never stop!

HHmmmmm...............

Chet

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2010, 07:31:54 PM »
So much can be done with a square kilometer of great tide height difference water.
Float a flat, light vessel on it. It is 5 metres thick and water won't penetrate it.
At low tide, engage anchors to the ocean floor. At hight tide (fully submerged 5 metres), softly allow the surface to float up. Per quare meter of water, that's for instance 5m x 1000kg. For the square kilometer, 1 million times that. And, twice per day. On top if this, water turbines could line the circumference of the vessel, covering a significant depth under the vessel, where strong tidal streams will exist. A bit of water sloshing through a small bay sized area, might power hundreds of thousands of houses.
Take a rugby ball of, what 3 litres?, and bring it to the bottom of the swimming pool (rarely more than 4 metres dee). That's the power you're dealing with here, just about 2 billion times more. And yes, twice a day.
The quick release at the bottom sees a lot of energy going lost on water friction, the ball doesn't jump up all that high. Doing it slowly, can definately do serious work connected to a machine to make use of it.

Greatest obstable is being awarded a square kilometers of stride tide water, and funding to build.

Oh I failed to mention the wind park on the vessel, and the solar cells. Terrawatts in total, rain or shine.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #107 on: April 21, 2010, 07:31:54 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #108 on: April 23, 2010, 12:29:28 AM »
Guys, your opinions please, after having looked at the cart.

Take this : http://eolprocess.com/
And substitute the blades with a prop, powered by the rotation of the central shaft.

Can you see what I'm seeing? Can you perhaps tell me why it won't work?

The wind turbine booster we've been looking for? The design itself is ingenious by itself, but it seems to be (although working beautifully in a seperately invented version of gmeast :
http://www.youtube.com/user/gmeast

restricted by the blade taking full wind, not wanting to go faster than the wind, while in all other positions, it does want. The prop, if it operates somewhat efficient off the wind, would be urging the central shaft, and all the props installed, to go faster. Sucking the air out of the wind, just like the cart does. Or am I wrong?

Another way I see is that the blades would not make full rotations, but alternate taking left and right, for fore and aft locations. Speed vs. torque, which is best? For the cart, speed. For the turbine, I am not sure.

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2010, 01:22:56 PM »
Clo,
That device appears to be a low speed high torque device!

I didn't translate.

what are they claiming verses a regular prop?

BTW I don't understand your idea {yet].

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #109 on: April 23, 2010, 01:22:56 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #110 on: April 23, 2010, 01:56:52 PM »
Animation is top view of a turbine, central shaft is vertical with the ground. Wind shown as coming from above. It is nothing like a prop. I am proposing to substitute the blade for props. Nothing easy about my idea.

gmeast who posts on energetic forums and youtube, built this thing, the French inventor apparently only made a patent, which was not maintained, and now int eh public domain. gmeast made the same thing, and found the patent after. It seems to turn pretty quickly to me. Speed of course is less important than the energy that can be extracted at the central shaft via a load/generator.

OK, so the blades turn on the rotor at half the rotor's rpm, but in one position of the device, the blades always pass in a given orientation. However, if you'd paint them in different colors back/front, I believe now they will switch sides.
NOT good for my propellor idea.

To have a chance of working with propellor replacing the large vertical blades, the propellor blades will need to be phased as well, reversing thrust. Reversing rotation direction of the propellors might be easier to engineer, but it makes my head hurt to figure out whether that's good or bad.

The back-thrusting prop that sit full in the wind (9:00 of animation), will have great thrust on the central shaft, as the DDWFTTW cart. At 3:00, prop blades will need to be perpendicular to the wind direction (vertical in animation), and reverse thrust for the next half-cycle.
I have a good feeling about this, seems it just might work to get the thing spinning fast, and extract good energy from the wind.

Perhaps a similar setup, stretched out rather and circular, without the thrust reverse, and the against the wind part being shielded from the wind, would be both simpler and more efficient. The props when exposed to the moving wind, would be DDWFTTW. In the tunnel or shield on the way back, apparent wind speed is reduced some, to have thrust there as well.
« Last Edit: April 23, 2010, 02:20:13 PM by Cloxxki »

Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2010, 02:44:30 PM »
No-one understanding my little idea above?
Many wondered how the DDWFTTW cart might contribute to wind energy, this might be one way.

If the prop is generation a greater wind speed difference by thrusting back, and driving the generator by moving DDW, returning at low resistance away from the wind, this to me seems like a potentially very efficient system. Wind speed behind the turbine would be lower than behind a regular fan of equal size, depite the prop as a whole moving through space faster than the wind.

If the prop on the DDWFTTW car can exert greater force when being driven by the wheels (hence the cart going faster), than a similarly geared prop on a seperated drive shaft, might as well extract more energy from the wind, per surface unit of the blade diameter, compared to a statically placed one.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #111 on: April 29, 2010, 02:44:30 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2010, 12:39:45 PM »
Helicoil

Thanks for the update!

When are they gonna make that nice slow upwind tack?
{wouldn't that be nice}
3x down wind   2x upwind  :o

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #113 on: May 19, 2010, 12:39:45 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #114 on: May 19, 2010, 12:57:53 PM »
Man, they are really documenting their efforts really well.  This is a most fascinating design and their results appear to be incredible.  I wish them the best of luck.

Bill

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #115 on: May 19, 2010, 03:25:39 PM »
Imagine If the wind could be our "over unity"?

Wouldn't that be a kick in the pants!!

And one heck of a happy day!!

This is getting more interesting all the time, Clo's ideas should at least be "plausible"?

Chet

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #115 on: May 19, 2010, 03:25:39 PM »
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Offline Cloxxki

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #116 on: May 20, 2010, 12:06:48 AM »
It's all about beating the wind down, right? If the wind still has umpf to make the downwind place windmill turn, the first one didn't quite use all that was there for it to take.

I think my idea could work to make the thing spin fast, yeah. But the turning blade design is so smart, seems to take so much power from the wind for a given frontal surface area, it should do well as part of future building design, to make them as lean as possible on grid power.

Offline TechStuf

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #117 on: May 20, 2010, 05:23:12 AM »
I believe that smoke generators near the axle or blade tips would reveal that, on the run up to speed, a type of stable VRS is developed which is required for best efficiency.  As long as the prop is in VRS, the craft benefits from the maintenance of positive/negative pressure areas and the efficient exchange of air mass via a non-obvious kind of 'slingshot' effect.  A simple demonstration of the potential efficiencies of air mass exchange in rotating systems, is the vortex cannon.  A toy, called the 'Airzooka' will propagate a vortex ring quite a distance through the air, even as it exchanges it's original air mass many times over.  If shot through smoke filled air, this effect is impressive and readily apparent.

I am currently working on a new kind of prop/generator combo which is very promising, as it makes use of vortex generators in a novel way by which to increase efficiency several fold.  These props carry the potential to generate the same amount of torque as conventional props up to 3 times their diameter.  I am working on modifying an 89 Toyota ext. cab pickup as a test bed vehicle to showcase their potential at generating copious amounts of energy with relatively minuscule measurable drag losses from being mounted at the front of the vehicle.  A small portion of the energy produced will be used at enhancing the vehicle aerodynamics.

Exotic EM flux manipulations neither required nor planned.  8)

I had planned on showcasing this platform over at Eco-Modder, but as it happens, they have little tolerance for even a modicum of free speech which might upset their small pond status quo.  Especially as pertains to the Truth regarding the lateness of the hour.

As regards the DWFTTW and Stuttgart's direct upwind accomplishments, they could improve considerably as a greater understanding of even more efficient dynamics unfold.

That is, if time permits.


Regards,


TS
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 05:58:52 AM by TechStuf »

Offline helicoil

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #118 on: May 20, 2010, 09:46:13 AM »
 when i first heard of this i overlooked it.
assumed it was impossible.
 searched the web a few weeks back and came across other sites, showing into the wind powered vehicles, with race events held in Europe, never knew they existed

 When this vehicle drives forward, Does the airspeed increase behind the blades,  aiding in driving the vehicle forward,
 or does the vehicle increase speed due to the blades angle and rpm, cutting or screwing itself into the air quicker than the wind speed, without increasing the air speed behind the blades.
   
  would like to see a pair or more of these slipstream formula 1 style.
 

  modify a large air conditioner duct, have mini versions loop around in circles on a special track, generating power, collected through the tracks, "turbo style".
(hadron collider tunnel would come handy)

could use a similar wind turbine as the v-lim.
 web page also contains an interesting article titled, rare-earth-shortages-may-put-china-in-the-drivers-seat-on-green-energy,
  http://mgx.com/blogs/tag/v-lim-wind-turbine/

http://rogueriverwind.com/VLIM_Hybrid/VLIM_Hybrid.html

 if there is in increase of wind speed behind the rotor blades, would a second set of blades behind this increase the speed further, e.g. 2 vehicles joined together, the rear vehicle aiding the first.

 Many ideas come to mind of looping these to run on their own generated wind, or underwater in a circular swimming pool, it can propel itself on its own created whirlpool.
  (need to make some models, to many ideas, not enough time).
 

Offline ramset

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Re: Directorly Downwind Faster than the Wind
« Reply #119 on: May 20, 2010, 11:09:39 AM »
You fellows have some cool ideas!!

Techstuff perhaps we could take a closer look at yours?

While we wait!

Chet

 

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