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Author Topic: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma  (Read 250031 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #315 on: March 15, 2015, 08:40:42 PM »

When the top contact is in the middle, then there is an equal current flowing over each of the poles inducing an equal force on both sides of the magnet and it will roll straight forward without making a turn.


However, if the top contact is off center, then there will be more current flowing over one of the poles than the other inducing an unequal force on each side of the magnet, and it will roll forward and make a turn.


IMO, a diametrical configuration may be the back door we have all been looking for.   : )


I can't stress enough how big of a discovery this may be!   Great job Mags!


Gravityblock

That all could be the case. But I was thinking that since the magnet itself is very conductive, just like the nickle coating, the current isnt just flowing through the coating, but the magnet as a whole. And should be the same effect. Most of the current will take the shortest path through the whole. Heck, there may be a particular path that the current flows through the mag due to the existing field in the mag.

There may be more flowing through the outer shell.  I suppose one could remove the nickle from the pole faces and just leave the perimeter coating and do a comparison to a fully coated mag. ;)

Mags


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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #316 on: March 15, 2015, 11:35:15 PM »
Been thinking on this more...

There is a possibility that the magnets field causes electrons to flow in a particular pattern in the foil around where the magnet sits. ???

I did a suspended test of the magnets with connections at the top and bottom of the magnet, basically a pendulum. The magnet did not move, even with high voltage discharges from a precharged cap. 

And the wire touching the top of the magnet could be in any orientation for basically the same effect each time. So the only thing left is what is happening in the foil. I was able to make the input connection to the foil at any side or corner, but the mag would move the same direction relative to pole positions and polarity of input. But the foil around the magnet is definitely influenced by the field of the mag, and that influence can affect what path the electrons will move in the area where the magnet sits. This all possibly producing push and pull of the magnet due to the odd fields developed in the foil from current flowing in controlled paths to the bottom magnet connection to the foil. ;)

Mags

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #317 on: March 15, 2015, 11:40:59 PM »
Lol. And if that is the case, then the magnetic film should be laying on top of the foil instead of around the magnet.  I suppose a hole in the film to let the mag make contact with the foil. Or better yet, have the film under the foil, no hole needed, and have it on a plexy or glass panel, then invert the whole thing to see the bottom. The magnet can be just mounted in place without moving, we just want to see the change in fields as current flows through the foil to the mag vs no current. ;D


Mags


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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #317 on: March 15, 2015, 11:40:59 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #318 on: March 16, 2015, 12:09:31 AM »

I did a suspended test of the magnets with connections at the top and bottom of the magnet, basically a pendulum. The magnet did not move, even with high voltage discharges from a precharged cap. 



Were both connections firmly attached to the magnet in order to move with it, or did you make both connections by hand, so the magnet would be free to move away from the connections?


Thanks,


Gravock

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2015, 12:26:26 AM »
Solid connections using a small tie wrap.  And being there wasnt even a jiggle, then the magnets ability to be 'able' to roll on the foil tells me that the foil was most likely having some force pushing it back as the mag pushes forward, except the foil was on a fixed platform so only the mag moved.

So here would be another test. Set the mag on the foil. and somehow have the wire that was toughing the top of the mag, touch the foil from underneath and the mag may roll away from center. Maybe not being the connection when using the mag moves with the mag.

Mags

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #319 on: March 16, 2015, 12:26:26 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #320 on: March 16, 2015, 01:08:03 AM »
Solid connections using a small tie wrap.  And being there wasnt even a jiggle, then the magnets ability to be 'able' to roll on the foil tells me that the foil was most likely having some force pushing it back as the mag pushes forward, except the foil was on a fixed platform so only the mag moved.

Mags



Can you repeat this experiment so the magnet is free to move away from the wire pieces?  The edges of the magnet can produce magnetic storms (vortexes) by motion through space as shown below.


In 1988 Prof Francisco J. Muller completed a series of experiments, substituting Faraday's rotating disk and magnet by a filamentary circuit, one portion of which is immersed in a magnetic field (inside a gap between ceramic magnets) while the other remains outside the magnetic field. (The field is confined within iron plates).  By introducing a capacitive branch he could demonstrate that the induction occurs, indeed, in the wire that moves with the magnet, without need of relative motion. A variation of the experiment in rectilinear fashion makes this anti-relativistic conclusion totally unavoidable, invalidating the recourse to General Relativity. A list of other publications by Muller can be found at the World Science Database.


For the rotational case in Figure 1 there is a potential difference induced between O and R due to the ABSOLUTE ROTATION of the system, in-spite of the absence of relative motion between the magnet and wire.  In Figure 1, all of the velocities are parallel or tangential to the magnetic edges.  For the translational case in Figure 2 there is no induction between O and R.  In figure 2, the B field is the same, the speeds also are similar, and no relative motion exists as in Figure 1. Why the difference?


In Figure 1, all of the velocities are parallel or tangential to the magnetic edges.  In figure 2, most of the velocities have components perpendicular to those edges.  As a result, in Figure 2 the edges of the magnet produce magnetic "storms" by motion through space (an absolute effect) which are equivalent to negative (VxB) effects.  The latter cancels the positive (VxB) fields thus yielding zero net induction.


Gravock 

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2015, 02:48:46 AM »
I can give it a shot.

Will just need to mount the mag at the bottom of a pendulum arm and suspend some contact wires to touch the bottom and top of the mag. Not at the shop at the moment. Maybe tomorrow evening.

Will have to be tried with wires to contact points from different angles. From the sides, front and rear, etc. Many combinations including a wire straight up to the bottom and straight down to the top.

Im still leaning toward the effects to the foil due to the mags filed and currents in the foil.

The wires cant have those effects due to only one path for the currents to go, so the mags field will have minimum effect on the wires as compared to what I have described the foil as having.

Mags

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #321 on: March 16, 2015, 02:48:46 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #322 on: March 16, 2015, 05:51:30 PM »
I have decided to try my idea on the inverted mag film tests of the foil also. Actually, I am going to do that first. Both tests are easy enough to do.

Will do this after work today. Would be interesting to see if the field in the foil changes around the mag when current flows compared to no current.

My mag film is 4 3/4 by 3 3/4in, so I will make the foil the same size to possibly get a full view of the foil while changing the input contact points of the foil.  Again, I am leaning toward the foil reactions described earlier. The foil provides an odd mix in this being that the currents can flow through the foil as a whole conductor. So the mags field can definitely cause deflections in how that current flows to get to the bottom contact of the magnet. ;)

The new pendulum test will be done with the top connection using a wire to hang it from, then just need to make loose contact with the bottom to see if it moves with the bottom wire at different angles including a vertical connection.

Mags

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2015, 05:53:23 PM »

Im still leaning toward the effects to the foil due to the mags filed and currents in the foil.

The wires cant have those effects due to only one path for the currents to go, so the mags field will have minimum effect on the wires as compared to what I have described the foil as having.

Mags

Mags,

You may be partially right.  In your initial experiment, there is more conductive material underneath the magnet than there is above the magnet, and this could cause an unequal breaking force between the top and bottom edges of the magnet, similiar to this video showing how a magnet will find the center of its own way on a conductive path,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KKeA3RI98
 
Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Gravock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #323 on: March 16, 2015, 05:53:23 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #324 on: March 16, 2015, 06:21:18 PM »
Mags,

In the pendulum test, you could also place a conductive material that covers a larger area underneath the magnet that isn't part of the cicuit.  There should be a gap between the magnet and this additional conductive material.


Thanks,

Gracock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #325 on: March 16, 2015, 06:34:30 PM »
Mags,

In the pendulum test, you could also place a conductive material that covers a larger area underneath the magnet that isn't part of the cicuit.  There should be a gap between the magnet and this additional conductive material.


Thanks,

Gracock


Try this test with both a solid connection and without a solid connection.


Gravock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #325 on: March 16, 2015, 06:34:30 PM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #326 on: March 16, 2015, 06:56:31 PM »
I'm thinking about a cresent shaped conductive material that either surrounds half or most of the conductve magnet in a diametrical configuration.  This may allow us to design a brushless motor without an induced net emf.


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #327 on: March 16, 2015, 07:07:57 PM »
I'm thinking about a cresent shaped conductive material that either surrounds half or most of the conductve magnet in a diametrical configuration.  This may allow us to design a brushless motor without an induced net emf.


Gravock


Could this concept be similar or related to the notched objects observed in NASA's failed tether experiment.


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #328 on: March 16, 2015, 09:46:40 PM »
Broli,

I'm not sure if you're still following this thread or not, but wouldn't a conductive material that partially or mostly surrounds the rim of the magnet and is electrically isolated qualify as the open circuit we have been looking for?  I don't see why not, and I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

Thanks,

Gravock

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #329 on: March 16, 2015, 11:17:37 PM »
Mags,

You may be partially right.  In your initial experiment, there is more conductive material underneath the magnet than there is above the magnet, and this could cause an unequal breaking force between the top and bottom edges of the magnet, similiar to this video showing how a magnet will find the center of its own way on a conductive path,  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4KKeA3RI98
 
Please let me know what you think.

Thanks,

Gravock

Well, like I said earlier, the foil floor is not the usual path for current to flow like a wire. There may be some push and pull for all I know. There may be possible upward push, levitation, etc.

But thinking about it more recently, the foil seems to be key.  lol, what might be interesting is if we have a panel with foil on top also. Would the mag move still? Or would that want to make the mag move in the opposite direction, negating the original effect? That may be simple to do also. Would be neat if the mag shot forward and out of the foil sandwich. ;D The top plate could be very thin plastic to mount the foil, like a larger piece of bubble pack that products are sold in, as to not have too much weight on the mag keeping it from moving. ;)

Ok. Gunna start working on the film test.  In your post showing the foil under but no electrical connection, Im not sure the foil would help being there or not. Might even slow things down due to lenz.

Mags

 

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