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Author Topic: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma  (Read 249848 times)

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #300 on: March 06, 2015, 02:06:57 AM »

... if we can make the distance between the center until the edge of the disk "longer", probably we can get the voltage higher.
Ariovaldo

I believe what you will find when researching this subject, is that yes: the larger the disk, the higher the voltage.
  and thicker disks produce more current.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline CANGAS

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #301 on: March 06, 2015, 06:13:48 AM »
It all depends on what you mean by " are ".   ;)

You take me back to the thrilling days of yesteryear.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word is is. "

Really, the meaning of the word is is is.

But, whether or not the meaning of the word is is is is not my main worry.



Magnetic field lines have the same kind of reality as elevation contour lines on a topographic map of terrain. They are convenient mathematical fictions that allow us to describe consistently the direction and the strength of how "test particles" would move in the presence of magnetism. Just as a road really goes nowhere, but we travel along a road, field lines don't represent a "flow" of  magnetism, they simply represent strength and direction of how other things would "flow" in the field. The concept of the field is itself a metaphor, a very useful one.
On a topo map, when the contour lines are close together you know that there is a steep slope in the reality and a ball, for example, would roll in a particular direction (at right angles to the lines and in the direction of lower elevation) and speed (fast where they are close). If the contour lines are far apart, the real place is flat or nearly so and the ball will roll slowly if at all ... but still at right angles to the contour lines.
And just as a standard topo map has contour lines that are well defined (as to the elevation change represented by successive lines) so too does a magnetic field line have a specific definition in terms of mathematical relationships between the quantities of the field and the test particle.


Uhhh, but just because somebody imagined field lines without actually seeing them, doesn't prove that they are not "real". Surely you will agree that everything that any human "sees" is a metaphor for the sensory information that is gathered by human senses and transmitted thru nerves to the brain, then processed into "images" capable of being understood by the soul. Like bro. Freud said, "Sometimes a cigar really is a cigar."

 

Tesla's "rotating magnetic field" is of course composed of stationary fields from separate coils, energized in sequence around a circle. A "test particle" like the Egg of Columbus rotates because it is following the sequence of stationary fields made by the separate coils as they are energized in the rotational sequence. The fields themselves do not rotate. Tesla used 4 coils driven by 2-phase AC in his demonstration to produce the "rotating" total field, but the field no more rotates than would LEDs blinking rapidly in a circular sequence.

Bravo!! Before now, I was uncertain if you understood the distinction.



ETA: Tom Valone did a very interesting experiment that he talks about in the Homopolar Handbook. He actually mounted a simple LED voltmeter arrangement directly to the disk of a homopolar dynamo, connected at the center and the edge. He found that when the voltmeter rotated along with the disk, he could detect no voltage generated. But when the voltmeter was stationary in the laboratory reference frame, connected by the usual radial and axial brushes, he did detect voltage from the rotating dynamo.

I have the book. And I read it too. Maybe twice. Or more. In all the excitement I lost count myself.

Do you think that this proves or disproves Special Relativity? Careful how you answer. Many are afraid of giving the "wrong" answer and losing their paycheck.




Cheers
CANGAS 146

Offline MarkE

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #302 on: March 06, 2015, 07:44:39 AM »
Why would you get the idea that experiment conflicts with SR?  SR can account for a magnetic field as the result of moving charge due to the charge's FOR.  In order to induce voltage, we need a cross product of a time varying magnetic field across a conductor.  When the voltage detector is placed across a fixed radial section of the disk, the expected induction across that radial is very low as confirmed by the experiment.  But relative to the external contact it is another matter, which the experiment also confirms.

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #302 on: March 06, 2015, 07:44:39 AM »
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Offline CANGAS

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #303 on: March 06, 2015, 08:09:26 AM »
Why would you get the idea that experiment conflicts with SR?  SR can account for a magnetic field as the result of moving charge due to the charge's FOR.  In order to induce voltage, we need a cross product of a time varying magnetic field across a conductor.  When the voltage detector is placed across a fixed radial section of the disk, the expected induction across that radial is very low as confirmed by the experiment.  But relative to the external contact it is another matter, which the experiment also confirms.


Quote
Why would you get the idea that experiment conflicts with SR?

LOL!

Are you illiterate? You seem to fail to comprehend that I ASKED A QUESTION.

I DID NOT STATE A POSITION! Are you delusional?

 ::)



CANGAS 149

Offline MarkE

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #304 on: March 06, 2015, 11:42:32 AM »

LOL!

Are you illiterate? You seem to fail to comprehend that I ASKED A QUESTION.

I DID NOT STATE A POSITION! Are you delusional?

 ::)



CANGAS 149
LOL.  So, you are not prepared to answer your own question?

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #304 on: March 06, 2015, 11:42:32 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #305 on: March 09, 2015, 03:54:42 AM »
 
I would find it very strange if your first rendering actually caused the magnet to rotate. This would mean an instant violation of many things. Can you show the experiment?

A force applied at any point on a body in equilibrium results in an equal and parallel reactive force at the centre of mass of the body acting in the direction of the applied force.

This reaction causes such linear motion of the body as would occur if the original force were applied at the centre of mass, independent of any rotational motion produced by the moment of the applied force.

For additonal information, please see the thread on the Paradox Engine created by Tusk at http://www.overunity.com/13102/the-paradox-engine/#.VP0CnPROmSw

Thanks,

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #306 on: March 09, 2015, 04:24:15 AM »
Also, remember that electrons moving perpendicular through a magnetic field are deflected, while electrons moving parallel through a magnetic field are accelerated.


Gravock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #306 on: March 09, 2015, 04:24:15 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #307 on: March 09, 2015, 04:31:16 AM »
The video by Mags is also empirical proof that our kinetic energy equation is wrong.


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #308 on: March 09, 2015, 07:03:44 AM »
The reason I find the possible operation of this strange is that in this kind of operation there should in theory be no induced EMF as you go from rim to rim.


I totally agree that their should be no induced EMF from rim to rim.  In other words, I see this working as a motor, but not working as a generator. 


Gravock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #308 on: March 09, 2015, 07:03:44 AM »
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Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #309 on: March 09, 2015, 07:36:19 AM »
Ah...OK, I think I see it now. The magnet on the foil isn't rotating like a homopolar  motor, it's trying to slide, like a railgun armature, and the sliding friction makes it rotate. I think.

So if you had, say, a brass tube that would be a good fit for the OD of the magnet, or even better just a long skinny cylinder magnet polled endwise, and you set it onto a pair of rails and then supplied current to the rails, it would scoot down the rails and also roll. Maybe.


I am in full agreement with your proposed analysis.  The  reactive force being applied to the center of mass induces a linear movement which causes rotation as it slides across the surface.


I believe we can easily convert this linear movement into a rotation to be used as a motor instead of a railgun by using the principals of the Paradox Engine ( video:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG8YOp_njFs ). 


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #310 on: March 15, 2015, 01:16:49 AM »

What is being pushed against, even in the ordinary configuration? In my setup the copper braid brush is very limp, it doesn't seem like it could be taking the "stator back reaction" that we usually think must exist somewhere for the rotor to spin. Push against that braid and it just flops out of the


This is an excellent question!  If we don't ask the right questions, then we don't get the right answers.  We have 4 possiible explanations I can think of:


1)  It"s pushing against the floppy limp  braid.  IMO,  I don't think this is the case.


2)  It's pushing against space or the field itself. 


3)  The electrons are pushing against the conductive surface of the nickel coated magnet as they are being deflected by the magnetic field.  However, the force is perpendicular to both the velocity of the charge and the magnetic field, so this doesn't add up either. 


4)  A combination of 1, 2, and 3.


Since the force is perpendicular to both the v of the charge and the B-field, then it is easy to see how the rotation is cancelled with a diametrical current (rim to rim), for the force is equal and in the same direction on each side of the pivot point (axle, which has traditionally been located at the center of mass or field). 


Likewise, it's easy to see how there is a secondary reaction force at the center of the mass or field which would allow for a linear or orbital rotation if the pivot point is away from the center of mass and/ or magnetic field, for the force will then only be on one side of the pivot point allowing for a net movement in the direction of said force.


My guess is #2, assuming of course experiment shows there is a secondary reaction force at the center of the mass and/or field which induces a linear or orbital rotation in the direction of said force by using a diametrical configuration.  We will only know through experimentation.  If #2 is correct, then this could lead to an enertia drive.


Gravock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #310 on: March 15, 2015, 01:16:49 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #311 on: March 15, 2015, 06:33:49 AM »



3)  The electrons are pushing against the conductive surface of the nickel coated magnet as they are being deflected by the magnetic field.  However, the force is perpendicular to both the velocity of the charge and the magnetic field, so this doesn't add up either. 




Dont know if I had posted it here. I have a few broken neos of a few sizes. The inner magnet is very conductive. Using a meter that reads to at least .01ohm, it measures 0 ohms .

So it may be good to think of it as causing some serious changes in the magnets influence of the original field.

Dont remember if I posted it here also, with the mag on the foil, say a 3/8 lengh 1/2in dia mag, if I have the top contact wire in the middle, it rolls straight forward. Off center to the left, and it would go forward but also turn left. And likewise, contact to the right of center, forward and right turn.

An interesting test. Use magnetic film with a rectangular hole so it fits over the mag at half the mags height on the foil, or just some solid contact top and bottom, to see how the field changes when current runs down(or up) through the mag. Interesting indeedy. ;D

Mags

Mags

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #312 on: March 15, 2015, 02:03:54 PM »
.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #313 on: March 15, 2015, 04:40:07 PM »



Dont remember if I posted it here also, with the mag on the foil, say a 3/8 lengh 1/2in dia mag, if I have the top contact wire in the middle, it rolls straight forward. Off center to the left, and it would go forward but also turn left. And likewise, contact to the right of center, forward and right turn.

Mags


When the top contact is in the middle, then there is an equal current flowing over each of the poles inducing an equal force on both sides of the magnet and it will roll straight forward without making a turn.


However, if the top contact is off center, then there will be more current flowing over one of the poles than the other inducing an unequal force on each side of the magnet, and it will roll forward and make a turn.


IMO, a diametrical configuration may be the back door we have all been looking for.   : )


I can't stress enough how big of a discovery this may be!   Great job Mags!


Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: Homopolar Generators (N-Machine) by Bruce de Palma
« Reply #314 on: March 15, 2015, 04:46:36 PM »
Deleted.....double post

 

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