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Author Topic: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?  (Read 10916 times)

Offline Shanti

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2009, 01:19:18 PM »
Quote
I wasn't trying to produce gas with that charged cell, only separate the lo from high PH waters.
Once separated the two spaces near to the plate on each side is drained into two separate containers. Hoping the membrane will maintain the separation as the two drain.

Ahh, sorry misunderstanding from my side...You only want to produce ionized water...got it...
Well where would be there the difference to a Kelvin Generator? IMHO this is exactly the principle of a Kelvin Generator...
As the different charged water sides will be attracted by the corresponding plates, you will have to input work to separate the charges. In a Kelvin Generator as said before the gravitational potential energy is used...
Which means, you will need to do work to empty your containers, and at least as much work as you lost charge energy in your capacitor...
I also didn't get how the different ions should be able to separate, if you put a membrane in between...
What would make sense to me, if you first have nothing in between, and then have the electric field. So that the ions separate, and then you put a blockade in between, so that the ions are not able to join anymore...
The problem I see, is that if you like to have at least some usable concentrations of these H3O+ or OH- ions in your water you are only able to separate very small amounts of water at a time, otherwise the charges (E-Field of the capacitor) have to be immensly huge...Which is not practical anymore...This makes the Kelvin Generator usable for getting quite easy even high concentrations (well that's relative...), as only the charge of a very small drop has to be equalized at a time...
OK you could design you cell so that the water layer is very very thin, this should be advantagous...
BTW: You can easily calculate the charge developed of your water at which concentration of ions...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline drspark

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2009, 01:26:14 PM »
Shanti

the membrane I was thinking about is more of a semi-porous material like maybe cardboard paper...
a new thought was many separators and only collect the water from the space on each side.

gravity can drain the water.
equal parts hrdroxy(sp?) to hydronium(sp?) in PH 7 neutral water
« Last Edit: January 11, 2009, 01:46:19 PM by drspark »

Offline drspark

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 01:31:19 PM »
Shanti,

i want to thankyou for showing me how to link to the middle of a google video does that or some other syntax work with youtube?

thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2009, 01:31:19 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2009, 01:44:40 PM »
Quote
the membrane I was thinking about is more of a semi-porous material like maybe carbord paper...

What is your idea, what would exactly the membranes do?

Quote
gravity can drain the water.
Well as I said then you actually have a Kelvin Generator where your drops are actually as big as your compartments... ;D

As I see it, the problem with this principle is very probably as with all the other of these principles I have, the lack of efficiency...
Unfortunately I couldnt find yet in the net the energy needed for the autoprotolysis reaction 2H2O -> H3O+ and OH-

Add:
I guess, that the energy needed for this reaction (which you will get from ambient heat) is very low compared to the energy needed to seperate the ions. Sure the energy of the seperation of the ions you will get back (with the discharge). But in practise you will never be able to do this 100% efficient. So the energy gain you get through the autoprotolysis reaction has to be way more than your loss due to inefficiency in your system to be practicable...
Otherwise it wouldn't be OU, or just another inefficient OU generator...

Offline drspark

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 01:48:54 PM »
the *membranes* help keep the separated waters from quickly remixing, during separation and draining.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2009, 01:48:54 PM »
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Offline Shanti

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2009, 02:15:01 PM »
Quote
does that or some other syntax work with youtube?

For YouTube videos you just have to add #t=XmXXs to the URL

Quote
the *membranes* help keep the separated waters from quickly remixing, during separation and draining.

Ahh I see. So you will slow down the exchange process. Like that it should work. The disadvantage would be, that also the separating would need much longer due to the now slowed down exchange process.
But everything usually has a pro and contra...In practise it's just a matter of what's easier/cheaper/more economic to implement...

Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 04:44:15 PM »
Does anyone know of a mambrane that is readily available on the market or, is there a way to build one at home?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2009, 04:44:15 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2009, 07:02:36 PM »
DUPONT
makes nano membranes ,have them in stock
Google them and call the main # the nano debt is right on the intro even nano foil
Chet

Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2009, 12:08:40 AM »
@ramset,
Thanks do you have any more specific pointers to this membrane?
I googled dupont nano foil and dupont nano debt but can not pin point the stock number.

Regards

AM

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #23 on: January 12, 2009, 12:08:40 AM »
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Online ramset

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #24 on: January 12, 2009, 12:16:37 AM »
I have the # at work will post it tomorrow
As I recall they stock down to 2nm product
Chet

Offline AhuraMazda

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2009, 07:18:38 PM »
@Chet
Was this another suppressed technology?

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=oXeo6-sNqJA

I intend to find out so, your help in locating a suitable membrane is appriated.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #25 on: January 12, 2009, 07:18:38 PM »
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Online ramset

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #26 on: January 12, 2009, 07:43:27 PM »
A.M.
working on finding that info
Chet
OK Here you go 1800 448 9835 listen to recording press 5 for nano particle membranes and filtration media

Offline drspark

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Re: water "polarization", INSTEAD of water electrolysis?
« Reply #27 on: January 13, 2009, 09:13:13 AM »
Group,

It appears that this stuff is for real not just a theory.

Why does the above video show the person drinking the acid water?
why do they say <3 Ph water is OK to drink???
When
Kangen water is alkaline. As shown in this video:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FAPZmaACEbw

It would seem to me that both would be microbe killers.
BUT which one is the health giver for us Macrobiotics?

 

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