Hi everyone,
for the past 2 months (in my spare time) ;) ... I've been experimenting with Coil Resonance. For over a year it was something that really interested me and I wanted to learn more about it. The way I learn best is to visually see a demonstration and to experiment and discover.
I now must thank Overunity user name: armagdn03 in helping me in getting the ball rolling by posting some informative video demonstrations of some of the effects when a coil is in Resonance. Thank you armagdn03 for taking the time to share and help your fellow man.
I have found a very simple circuit that uses a Square Wave from a signal generator connected to a ferrite transformer but the transformer is connected in an unconventional way. The transformer is tuned by a capacitor placed in series to resonate at the pulsed frequency of 28 Khz. However, only one leg (single wire) of the transformer coil is used for the output. Two diodes are used (in opposite directions) on the single output leg to which the energy is collected in a capacitor.
I now must also thank Overunity user name: DrStiffler for sharing the benefit of using 2 diodes on a single wire for energy collection. Thank you Dr. Stiffler for taking the time to share and help your fellow man.
I am making no over unity claims to the circuit that I'm sharing. I just find that for such a simple circuit it demonstrates many interesting effects. Take what you want from it since my intent is only to share.
A video demonstrates of the working circuit is available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mr3Xikrgak
Peace and Love to all
Luc
Maybe the next test you could make is hooking the output up to a fluorescent tube and see if it lights it up.
Hi everyone,
for the past 2 months (in my spare time) ;) ... I've been experimenting with Coil Resonance. For over a year it was something that really interested me and I wanted to learn more about it. The way I learn best is to visually see a demonstration and to experiment and discover.
I now must thank Overunity user name: armagdn03 in helping me in getting the ball rolling by posting some informative video demonstrations of some of the effects when a coil is in Resonance. Thank you armagdn03 for taking the time to share and help your fellow man.
I have found a very simple circuit that uses a Square Wave from a signal generator connected to a ferrite transformer but the transformer is connected in an unconventional way. The transformer is tuned by a capacitor placed in series to resonate at the pulsed frequency of 28 Khz. However, only one leg (single wire) of the transformer coil is used for the output. Two diodes are used (in opposite directions) on the single output leg to which the energy is collected in a capacitor.
I now must also thank Overunity user name: DrStiffler for sharing the benefit of using 2 diodes on a single wire for energy collection. Thank you Dr. Stiffler for taking the time to share and help your fellow man.
I am making no over unity claims to the circuit that I'm sharing. I just find that for such a simple circuit it demonstrates many interesting effects. Take what you want from it since my intent is only to share.
A video demonstrates of the working circuit is available here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mr3Xikrgak
Peace and Love to all
Luc
Five stars again Luc
i will try to replicate this experiment with a MOT and a cell instead of a capacitor and i will see if we can produce something from it i have all the parts but i need to assemble it .
Thank you for sharing this .
Najman
However, only one leg (single wire) of the transformer coil is used for the output. Two diodes are used (in opposite directions) on the single output leg to which the energy is collected in a capacitor.
Peace and Love to all
Luc
Hi Luc
What happens if you disconnect the bottom diode from the lead wire coming from the transformer so that the - (negative) terminal from the cap just goes to ground?
DonL
Hi Luc
What happens if you disconnect the bottom diode from the lead wire coming from the transformer so that the - (negative) terminal from the cap just goes to ground?
Don L
Okay Don, I just tested it. I removed the negative lead from the diode to the cap and connected only the Earth ground to the negative side of the cap and nothing happens. No charging :(
Thanks for posting your idea.
Luc
From what I can tell, I am still the only person who understands this as a viable phenomenon for an overunity device.
Glutoc
Bomb Sh*t Dude. You are one of the first to have started to take these concepts to the next level. I have been unable to post, make comments, or further my demonstrations at this time due to other time commitments, however I am very happy to see that you have taken something valuable from it.
One thing that you can take into consideration with the original circuit. The primary and cap will have a resonant frequency, and the secondary with its parasitic capacitance will as well. It is unlikely that you are hitting the resonant freq of the secondary. This is why I showed the youtube video of the different resonant modes of a secondary. It is likely that your primary tank circuit is the one you are hitting resonance with, if you get this to match your secondary resonance, you will be pleasantly surprised. Also, it should be noted that any change on the loading of the Avramenkos plug will affect the resonant point of the secondary, and a bit of re tuning may need to happen.
I could go on an on with what to improve where, but lets keep it simple for now, great job, and thanks.
Hi Luc, thank you for sharing.... a question about the ground, does removing the ground wire apply an arbitrary ground or is it the other way .... attactching the wire is an arbitray ground?
Hello LUC
i just watched your vid2 and i wonder if you apply dc square will you get the same effect ?
Najman
Hi kewlhead,
I'm not sure if I really understand your question ???... the coil is resonating with square wave AC but the Capacitor is charged by DC via the dual diodes off one side of the coil. Adding the Earth ground to either the positive or negative side of the diode plug increases the charge voltage for a reason I do not yet understand. Is it extracting that energy from the Earth?... I think it is but I can't prove it.
Hope this helps.
Luc
gotoluc:
I have just a few ideas I'd like to share with you, but I don't expect you to do it for me.It's just for your consideration.
What is going on if you connect led or diode to the ground wire ? Doe it matter in what direction is it connected ? Does it produce light ? Is it measurable current from ground with ammeter ? Did you tried with various coils ? What are the results compared to self-induction of coil ? I suspect that a coil with much longer winding should give a much better results, faster charge maybe.
Thank you for wonderful experiments ! Please don't give up !
Hi all.
I made a small clip to show some of the things i notice with resonance.
http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lrlngX0ofFc (http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=lrlngX0ofFc)
I used a square wave around 10khz.
The circuit is just a 555 as you can see, though it has triangle wave as well (not used in clip).
Scotty.
@gotoluc
You made a 2nd video in which you replaced the transformer with a single inductor.
but you didn't show us a schematic of the new setup.
Could you please draw us a quick diagram of the new setup?
@gotoluc
Good thread.
Thanks for the circuit of @groundloop also. This will reverse polarity on the two output terminals. This will be very good for more experiments. I am only worrying about the damn flyback. Always the fylback. Here is a puzzle. How do you diode back the flyback on a coil that is getting reversed polarity pulses????
Can this circuit also do a real DPDT as you mentioned you had asked to @groundloop or is a real DPDT impossible with mosfets. (I don't know enough EE to know). But......... I could really use such a DPDT circuit diagram to do more Erfinder circuit experiments. I have never done it with mosfets. I could give the circuit to my EE guys to make it for me. I could ask them to put mosfet push in terminals in case I blow them (as usual).
I have been working on resonance also. I am trying to standardize a resonance method for standard AC transformers and will post on your thread some time next week if you don't mind.
On your last video, did you ever try to put a magnet near the bulb with the spark gap?
Keep up the good work.
Hi everyone,
I have a small update video if anyone is interested: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do7pHvyiLks
Luc
@BEP
Would it be possible to produce a coil cap combination that becomes resonant at a near infrared frequency. There is alot of infrared wave energy bouncing around and could provide the kicks necessary to maintain a resonant circuits losses.
@gotoluc
Good video. I think you were shoveling the same snow as me today. I'm north of Montreal. lol
The one layer coil is basically a mini tesla-coil secondary and it was good to see the gradual increase in energy from the neon. Just be careful with that neon. The way you were swinging it around, we will have to call you gotoluc skywalker. lol
Very nice work!
The effects you show (lights brightest at certain locations on the coil or particular coil wire) are the methods used in radio tech. Perhaps 'old tech' in radio - HAM.
If you were to increase the driving frequency you will find the peak point will change. Raise it high enough and you will have multiple peak points on the coil. These points tell you where the peaks and troughs of the wave are (nodes and anti-nodes).
Since there is only one end with the bright point and the other end shows nothing I would say your coil is equal to a quarter wavelength of the frequency from your circuit.
I can't say much about the heat of your components because one type of circuit the heat is expected when the tank is resonant where another type the heat is unexpected.
Why ? It looks nice, just nodes are moving. Maybe this is not resonance but bouncing of longitudinal waves which create a lot of floating nodes.That would also explain what Tesla said : that it's very difficult to adjust for exact resonance frequency, not just to harmonic. There is only one longitudinal resonant frequency of coil.
it look similar to Stan Meyer patent signal is like pulsed step up ,i know that you are in the testing mode but you need to unhook it from the variak and apply it to a lamp with determined wattage and see if at the source is consuming less .
Nice vid and explanation LUC keep up the Good work .
Najman
Hi Najman,
the variac at this time give me ease of voltage tuning as I have found that it affects the frequency and characteristics of the resonant coil. But I will do as you say and remove it and replace with batteries only once I find the best setup.
Stay tuned
Luc
GNch.
Oh well. I just completed 90 percent of construction based on the "old" diagram. I might be able to get in there and rewire the 4013...
But the only driver chips I could find locally are the IR 2104, which is basically the same as the 2103 but the second input is an "inhibit". Shouldn't pose a problem as the chip should behave the same in this circuit. BUT: I could only find it in the SOT package!! So another evening of tiny precision soldering to adapt them to DIP...
Thanks, groundloop and gotoluc!! This will be a very handy circuit for all kinds of things.
I wonder if one should insert a diode and/or capacitor in the input feed from the signal generator, to protect the 4013 inputs...?? And perhaps a current-limiting resistor and a fuse in the DC input line to protect the MOSFETs??
Hi everyone,
I just uploaded a new video :)
I ask for your input to help solve what I maybe missing in my way of measurement in this test as I seem to be able to charge a 12,000uf cap bank (with 10 ohm load attached) to 3.12vdc in one second and cannot measure any current draw to achieve this ???
Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETZaMrnIwxk
Thanks for your time.
Luc
I'll have to check later today.
But I do know this much: the logic and switching side of my unit seems to draw about 25-30 mA when the unit is quiescent--so that is in line with your measurement. But this draw is from the power supply to the logic, not from the bridge side (I think.)
Huh? I replied to your video, above...but you didn't answer my questions. ??
I just checked my unit with the following parameters:
Logic power from a 11.4 volt battery--draws 26 milliamps when quiescent, a little more when working.
Bridge power from an HP benchtop supply, 50 volts DC, current limited at 100 mA.
No load on bridge. (I disconnected my LEDs for this test.)
Clock from a function generator, square wave, 700 kHz.
Current draw from bridge supply: 30-40 mA, depending on frequency. The draw is very small at low freqs, peaks at around 300 kHz, goes down, then peaks again at 700+ kHz.
So I am confirming your result, but I can't explain it, unless we are experiencing "shoot-thru" or some other weird leakage phenomenon. But I thot the driver chips were supposed to prevent that. Oh well.
Couple things to consider
1) I don’t know if you still have a capacitor in series with those coils, but it’s not necessary, they have distributed parasitic capacitance already.
2) Are both coils at their own resonant point? seperate? is there one shared? Output will go up significantly if both coils are identical
And last but not least, a suggestion on what to try next.....put two pickup coils on the same large coil, then measure.
Also, make bridge rectifier out of switching diodes, try to run small motor.
well done.
Luc,
Thank you for making the video. It is a great video and it clearly demonstrate what we where talking
about in private mails. It seems to me that your circuit (two coils) is outputting more Watt than
you are providing to the circuit. I have one question, it is possible to do the same test at 12 volt
input level? Then you can use the input voltage to also deliver power to the switched side. This will
give us an idea on how much the circuit is using at total compared to the total output. I ask because
the two diodes at the IR2103 is connected to the switch output side and may inject power to your
output, thus adding to the result. It may not be so but I think it is important to check that also.
You are doing a great research with this circuit and you should keep posting your results even if there
are few replays to you posts. Keep up the good work. Now that there is a replica (Tinsel Cola) I bet
he can confirm many of your findings.
Regards,
Groundloop.
Hey Luc,
Please do not stop posting your results...I, and I dare say many are following your work avidly...check out the number of views this thread has.
The whole world now knows you though your work...I did not want to clutter your thread, so I just observed from the sidelines.
Your work is important...keep the faith.
Regards...
Umm. Ok. Aren't you just measuring the current draw of the logic and switching circuits? Isn't the charge current coming from the one cap being maintained at 50 volts, going thru the bridge and the coil? So the energy to charge the 12000 mfd cap isn't coming thru the AC ammeter?
Am I seeing this correctly? Could you post a clear drawing of the whole circuit including the meters and caps and variac and all?
Also I can't figure out why my bridge works, since I didn't rewire the 4013. Did I make a lucky mistake?
Okay TinselKoala,
the current I am measuring in the video is what is keeping the capacitor bank charged and is feeding the switching side of the circuit to which the coil is connected or disconnected as I demonstrate in the video. The 12,000uf bank with attached 10 ohm resistor as load is being charged by the secondary of the coil in question, (no direct connection to the 50vdc cap bank). The reason I monitor the amps from this location is it is 60Hz I know the meter will give an accurate reading at 60Hz and mostly because it is sine wave. However monitoring the the amps from the DC side when it is on off 350,000 times a second is not a good location since I don't think any meter will be accurate in this kind of situation. If anyone knows better please do provide your knowledge.
As you now know, since you tested it, the circuit consumes close to 30ma from the switching input voltage at frequencies around 350Khz with nothing connected to the outputs. If you know this now! should you not ask yourself :-\... how was he able to charge a 12,000uf cap bank with a 10 ohm load attached to over 3 volts and not show any extra draw from the 50vdc input cap :o
Thanks for your interest and sharing.
Luc
OK, good, I'm glad you aren't going quiet.
First, some more results.
First, my unit seems to oscillate at 1/4 the clock frequency, not 1/2. That is, if I give it a 1 kHz square wave input (say) the output bridge gives a 250 Hz square wave output. I didn't notice this last night as I was using both scope channels to look at the outputs. Are you sure yours does 1/2? Could this difference be because I am using both flipflops in the 4013 and you are only using one?
Second, I looked at a larger freq range. The no-load leakage current peaks at a drive freq of about 1.8 MHz or so, then goes down again, but the whole unit shuts down at a little over 2 MHz. I'm sort of bummed at this, I was hoping it would get to 3 MHz.
Third, I am using the IR2104 which has the shutdown or inhibit pin. When the shutdown is selected, the leakage current goes away and I just see the 26 mA for the chips. So the problem, if that's what it is, is in the output of the driver chips or the mosfets themselves. The first thing I'd try is bigger gate resistors. But that's just a guess.
Fourth, I forget, maybe it will come back to me in a minute.
Second, your circuit and the cap charging. I'd like to see an exact diagram of the set-up before I stick my foot too far in my mouth, but a couple things strike me as possibilities.
First, the meter may not be fast enough to respond to the current surge. It's all over pretty quick, I think.
Second, you are only charging the output cap stack to a relatively low voltage. As you know the energy on a cap goes as the square of the voltage. I'm not sure what to use as the input energy, though, which is why I'd like to see a whole diagram of the circuit, including meters, variacs, load resistors, etc. In other words, the whole setup.
Third, sorry about all the firsts, seconds, and so forth. It's been a long day, and it will be a long night.
Luc,
Thank you for making the video. It is a great video and it clearly demonstrate what we where talking
about in private mails. It seems to me that your circuit (two coils) is outputting more Watt than
you are providing to the circuit. I have one question, it is possible to do the same test at 12 volt
input level? Then you can use the input voltage to also deliver power to the switched side. This will
give us an idea on how much the circuit is using at total compared to the total output. I ask because
the two diodes at the IR2103 is connected to the switch output side and may inject power to your
output, thus adding to the result. It may not be so but I think it is important to check that also.
You are doing a great research with this circuit and you should keep posting your results even if there
are few replays to you posts. Keep up the good work. Now that there is a replica (Tinsel Cola) I bet
he can confirm many of your findings.
Regards,
Groundloop.
@gotoluc,
The switch should not have any problem with using 12VDC for both the switch side and the logic side.
Groundloop.
Well, OK, here's another way to look at it. You are charging 2 6000 mFd caps to 3.15 volts. That's a total of about 0.06 Joules.
Your h-bridge input current is, say, 30 milliamps RMS at 50 volts. You leave the circuit on for one second, by which time the receiving caps are charged to their 3.15 volts.
So, input is 50 x 0.030 x 1 second, or 1.5 watt-seconds or Joules.
So, even assuming your meter's numbers are correct, you have plenty of energy there to do the job, even with losses.
Am I getting the input numbers right? You are charging for one second, right?
So maybe we don't actually expect any extra current to be visible on the meter.
@gotoluc
@groundloop
@TK
This is to address @gotoluc's concern but would be destined to all three. GOOD WORK GUYS!!!
It is not because we do not interject that we do not follow this progress. Actually, this is teaching me personally about circuits, cooperative progress and more. So please do not give up regardless of the final outcome. This is always a learning process and that is priceless. For me the circuit talk just is way above my head so I prefer to follow and learn. Most of the doers work on several projects at a time so please don't take it personally for not always acknowledging this or that. This is a collaborative process. You learn, I learn we all learn more from all the things we individually do and when it is time, we can use these experiences to help others in other ways. So good on y'all.
Dear TinselKoala,
you are not correct and possibly not reading my posts. I will not reply any longer to questions I have already answered.
Luc
Hell Luc
so now it is midnight and i watched your vid great as always ;D.
I have suggestion:
We need to standardize the electronics .
aside of the flip flop we need a small inverter that you connect a transformer in reverse so you will have an output of 110 v ,the input should be around 8.0 volts with this inverter we should control the voltage input so if we need less than 110 volts . i hope Grounlookp will provide us with the answer to this .
next after you find the resonance in your configuration we should disconnect the signal generator and here it come another circuit a small signal generator with matching frequencies .
so we have 3 circuit that are powered from the same source the flip flop the inverter and the small signal generator and then we can measure the consumption and see if we have unity or over unity .
Thank you
Najman
The video of tonight's performance:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tW2g4KinuA
@najman100,
It is almost impossible to design an inverter that does not have any losses.
At best you get 80 - 90 % of the energy you put into the inverter back as
a usable output. The over unity in the circuit must be higher than 2 x the total
input usage to be able to loop back the output to the input. It is probably
simpler to design the coils to give you the voltage you need by designing
the secondary coils with enough turns, but when we starts to talk about
several Watts output then your idea will be a nice way to loop back energy.
@gotoluc,
I did the math on your 12VDC test.
Circuit input usage without any load = 0,60221 Watt.
Circuit input usage with coils connected = 1,54854 Watt.
Output on coil 1 with 10 ohm load resistor = 0,29584 Watt
Output on coil 2 with 5 ohm load resistor = 0,24642 Watt
Output total = 0,54226 Watt.
Circuit input usage - circuit switching loss = 1,54854 Watt - 0,60221 Watt = 0,94633 Watt.
So at 12VDC input voltage the circuit COP = 0,573. So at this low voltage the circuit runs at a little
over 50% efficiency. So I agree with you, high voltage switching in resonance is a must.
@TinselKoala,
Great video. You confirmed that the input usage did not go up when connecting the coil as a load.
Keep up the good work.
Groundloop.
Hello all,
maybe a core?
Otto
Gotoluc, Groundloop, TinselKoala very nice and professional work. Don't stop posting, I can just say before me somebody, there are many people who read that topic. ;)
I am not replicated the circuit, but I feel I can help a bit, to make it more interesting, and fun.
I think, if the challenge is a designing a coil system and circuit which which deliver more output then input, and we plan to loop back the part of the output to input, we need rethink, what controlling system will allow to us that.
I would suggest to eliminate the signal generator first. The coil is, the resonance target, we pulse the coil, to achieve resonance. We can't reach real resonance if our drive pulse frequency can't change harmoniously with the coil resonance level. I suggest to redesign the circuit, to make possible the self triggering. You have to use sensing coils, which would provide the input pulse for input side. These sensing coils have to induce enough voltage to turn on the circuit. They can induce only any voltage if they are in good relationship with the target coil, and if there are flux change in the target coil. So, I suggest to bond the output power side, and input power side together, and allow the circuit, to start from same cap. If that ready, and our circuit, and coil design is good, if we charge the cap, the circuit will start, and after some ringing stop, because the cap goes empty.
Now the real challenge is the understood the relationship between the coils, and design a coil system, which will destroy itself. There are many interesting thing about coils, and many thing what we think we know, but when we start to investigate we realize, oh my god, we don't.
5stars LUC now you have to go bigger ;D
Najman
@Luc: Great work! Congratulations!
But I have to ask: why aren't you monitoring the Current Draw from your 9-volt battery stack?
Could you please repeat the demo with an amp meter in series with the battery pack and the h-bridge?
In my own tests the voltage may not be dropping (much) but the current draw does go up.
thanks...
--TK.
(you shouldn't get excited about those fluctuations in the smallest digit of the DMMs. It just means the true voltage is somewhere near halfway between the two digits of the fluctuation. )
Dear Luc,
How long will it take you to build the crystal oscillator?
Cheers
Thane
Hi everyone,
Good news ;D
Test 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TcKmArOXsw
Luc
Hi TinselKoala,
thanks for the positive comment ;D... after doing the video test 9 I did hook up a DC ma meter (just for fun) to see what the ma drain was and it was 24ma with no loaded coils and 21ma with the loaded coils.
As I have said before and Groundloop also agrees!... I do not think a digital or even worse an analogue meter can give an accurate reading when the DC is switched on and off over 350,000 times a second ??? but if you think it is fine then the numbers above are the readings.
As you also know, (being first to replicate Groundloops circuit) the switch side of the circuit consumes about that many ma with no load attached from a 45vdc input voltage. Have you also noticed that if you raise the input voltage, still with no load, it keeps going up in draw of amps. When mine gets to the 100vdc range the IR2103's are too hot to keep my finger on them ;D. Even at 60vdc mine get to 130 degrease Fahrenheit. However I have not yet changed the resistors and added the capacitors that Groundloop has recommended in order to help with the heat issue. Hopefully these changes will help with the energy waste?
I'll report the changes once this has been done.
Luc
@gotoluc,
I think that my test idea will conclusive show a over unity or not. You have only one measurement
to take and that is the voltage over the battery. If the voltage climbs (over time) then there is o/u.
Simple as that. I also think that that it will be easy to loop back the coils because you have already
demonstrated that the secondary power out coils can take a low restive load. So by proper design
I mean that the coils must be designed for exactly that. If you want to make many coils that are
like each other then just use a cardboard tube cut to equal length. Then you wind the same number
of turns on each cardboard tube segment. Glue the wire with super glue. That way you get several
coils that are the same. Over the secondary of each coil you connect a variable capacitor in parallel.
The variable capacitor will allow you to tune each coil (LC) pair to the same resonance. In my
drawing I only used two coils. But you will probably need many more than that. You just series two
and two coils to get the needed voltage (must be higher than the battery voltage) and then parallel
enough coils to get the needed current. (Must be higher than the total loss in the circuit.) My estimate
is that you will need approx. 8 coils on the output.
Groundloop.
Hi Stefan,
Lest me just say that we are working on a circuit that will not use two power inputs, but
batteries for the input power. Everything will be powered from the battery bank. Also, a loop back
test has been proposed.
I would also like to comment on your concerns of power transfer to the circuit.
First, you are totally wrong that the signal generator can input any power.
The input resistance of a 4013 IC is in the millions mega ohms range.
The same goes for the impedance. The signal generator is connected direct to
the clock pin of the 4013 and does not consume any power or transfer any power to the circuit.
Second, does the cmos drivers inject any power to the output? Yes they do. But the test done has shown that
this power is very low. Some few mA. When this circuit is scaled up by using more coils then this small power
feed will be nothing compared to the total wattage going into and coming out of the coils.
Third, Although I agree with you about using DC volt meters and filter and stuff, this is total irrelevant for the
circuit operation knowing the current usage. We has found that the circuit switch itself uses some power
just to run without load. Later on the next logical test will be running the circuit from batteries and loop back
the output. All we need to know is if the battery bank charge up or discharge to find out if it is o/u or not.
Fourth, Luc has shown that the total current usage is fairly constant regardless of connected load or not.
He then connect an additional coil and load and the input power usage did NOT go up. Even if the meter
itself did not not show the 100% correct amperage usage, the meter still did not show a differential higher
value when the loads was connected. I think this is significant.
Fifth, I find it very strange that you, the owner of overunity.com, a forum called free energy, does not welcome
the huge work we have put into this. I honestly believed that the common goal was to develop some sort of
free energy system to help the world. Luc has done a great job so far with his testing. He has shown that
multiple coils with load does not reflect the load back to the input. It may not be the free energy system that
will power your house, but it is a humble start. You probably did miss the proposed test for running this switch
from a battery bank with a loop back of the energy posted in this thread. I have been working on a new
switch for the last few days. The new switch uses optocouplers between the logic part and the switch part.
I have tested and measured that the maximum possible energy flow that can happen through the
optocouplers to the floating output switch is approx. 2 - 3 milli Watt. I did plan to build this circuit using
a lot of my own time and money. Making PCB's and buying parts will set me back approx. 500 Euros.
Now I'm not so determined to do that.
Last, as a owner of this forum called free energy, you must never forget that it is the very few people that
actually do research that is keeping your boat floating. Of the 18686 members of this forum, there is but
a few that actually build stuff and test stuff. Luc is one of these few, he should be cheered on for the
countless hours and hard work he has put into this.
Attache is a drawing of the switch I have been working on lately. The switch has not been built and tested
yet, and I have some doubt if I ever will do that.
Regards,
Groundloop.
@najman100,
The proposed circuit uses a PIC micro controller and must have firmware loaded(has not made that yet).
The micro controller already has a oscillator, the 20 MHz crystal. Getting the switch to self oscillate
is easy. Just a couple of lines in the firmware program. I was planning to let the micro learn from
the user applied oscillator input. When the user finds the resonant frequency then he/she just presses
the run/stop button and the actual oscillator frequency will be stored in the micro's EEPROM.
Next time you power up the circuit the circuit will oscillate at the stored frequency. If I decide to
build this circuit then I will post the design files and firmware here.
It is also possible to use a discrete IC (like the 4013 etc.) to control the switch. Just combine one opto LED
with another and make a external oscillator to light the leds. I will post a circuit drawing of that also for those
that will build such a circuit.
Regards,
Groundloop.
I'm not electronic engineer so please bear with me.I think we need more then 300V.Maybe 600V is even too low.Personally I would like to test an LC oscillator with 1000V and really microamps.The problem is with switches, there should be kind of intelligent spark gap (=transistor) to handle it.In other words : something which charge capacitor and then when fully charged cut power source and allow for freely oscillate the LC circuit.
There is one more problem I think. To cut all lower frequencies charge to capacitor must be flowing when capacitor is disconnected from coil or when capacitors are in special configuration. That's how I think about it but I may be wrong. I just use the water pump analogy - if capacitor is a water storage device then the size of it and the speed of water flow determine if water is slowly filling container or a part of water is flowing above container inlet due to speed.
Boguslaw
Hi Luc,
I got a PM from "najman100" and I have proposed a deal with him. If everything works out
then there will be PCBs for both the new circuit drawings. Since I'm in the xmas mode
right now, there will be a fully soldered and tested PCB for the micro controller version
for you next year, for free. I will have the new PCBs and parts by January 16 next year.
If "najman100" agree to my proposal then there will be a PCB for you for the non micro
version also. :-) I have ordered enough boards so "Wattsup" and "TinselKoala" can have
a PCB for free also (the micro controller version).
Groundloop.
P.S. Luc, if you still try your first design with the coil and
the Avramenko plug together with the earth connection charging up your
2 uF cap: You could try to connect a 4 Watts fluorescent tube across the
cap and maybe reduce the cap to a 100 nF ( at least 1000 Volts rating)
thus you will get more flashes per second from the fl. tube cause the cap will
charge up faster and then the cap will be discharged, when fl. tube
ignites.
This way you could also use the output power of the cap
to light up the fl. tube.
Regards, Stefan.
@TinselKoala,
Great video. :-) Thanks for taking time to test out this circuit. Have you tried to use the output
form the secondary coil to charge up a lead acid battery? It is also good to see that the secondary
coil can be trimmed to the correct resonant frequency. Your led test clearly shows that this could
be done. Great work.
You will also get your PCB (and a ready programmed PIC16F84A controller) for free. But as I said to Luc,
the PCBs wil not arrive until around the 16 of January next year. I will also need a little time to develop
the firm ware needed to run the controller. I will also build the non controller version. I have been talking
with "najman100" and he will make the PCBs for the non controller version. He has a little trouble with
the Eagle design files but I think we can solve that later. I don't know how many PCBs najman100 will
make, but I hope he will make more than 3 so that we can have one each. Najman100, any thoughts
on this?
@ramset,
Since you commented on this work in a positive way and since I'm still in my xmas mode, then there
will be a free PCB (of the pic controller version) for you also. :-) If you can't program a PIC micro, then
just let me know and I will give you one ready programmed. :-)
@Wattsup,
I haven't heard from Wattsup, but if you read this and want a free PCB (of the pic controller version),
then let me know. (My xmas spirit will run out around the 1st of January 2009. LOL)
@gotoluc,
I will make a couple of coils for the project. I will try to make the coils as shown in my test drawing.
I have collected some cardboard tubes to make air core coils on. I estimate that I can fit up to 8
coils on each cardboard. Each coil will be wound with a 150 turns primary and a 76 turns secondary
loosely coupled next to (or at the top of) the primary coil. I guess that each coil can be tuned with a
variable capacitor (2 to 22pF) to get a resonant frequency of around 150 KHz. You can have one of the
coils.
Groundloop.
@duff,
OK, You will get one PCB (mcu controller version) for free, no PIC mcu, only pcb.
From now on, no more PCBs from me on this project. :-)
Groundloop.
@najman100,do you have skype
OK, I will download the version 5.3.0 and install it on my laptop and test the files.
Groundloop.
do you have skype
Groundloop
I am completely at a loss for words [I have been lusting after this]
I must admit you impress me no end with your skills and benevolence [the time you take to help others]
I have been watching Luc for some time [the THANE wars] and he is of like spirit
you have the dream team here TINSEL Koala and many more
I will endeavor to put your gift to good use [I have some cool ideas] and will share all
God bless
Chet
PS I would like Luc's Paypal
@najman100,
I downloaded the newest Eagle CAD version 5.3.0 and installed it on my Laptop running Win XP.
I had NO problems opening the files. I did a test and generated GERBER design files in inch
and it worked 100%. To make it clear, open the *.BRD or the *, SCH file.
You can select export image in the file menu. But, there is more. First you must go to the View folder
and select the correct layer you want to print out! Just deselect ALL layers first. Then select TOP layer
and export that. After that you select the Bottom layer and export that. Click the Monochrome box
before saving the image. You can save as large image as you want by increasing the resolution DPI.
Hope this helps.
Groundloop.
@Gotoluc,
>>You're beginning to be a regular Santa Claus
I was born in north Norway very close to the north Pole. So I personally know Mr. Santa. LOL
I will be looking into the wire issue. I agree that using plastic insulated wire will give some distance
between the wires. I will search my storage for such wire. It is no problem to put the secondary coil
5 mm away from the primary. You are thinking that the secondary coil will have a diameter that is 5 mm
more and sit outside the primary coil?
You are driving the IR2103's pretty hard with only 10 ohm resistors. Change to 50 ohm resistors
and add the decoupling capacitors as shown in the newest drawing. Using sockets is a good idea.
[EDIT] Attached is a proposed way to make the coils. You will have to fill in the blanks.
Groundloop.
LUC
Because YOU ARE THE RIGHT STUFF
One in a zillion [billion at least]
I'm working out of state
my wife is sending Now
God bless and merry christmas
Chet
@gotoluc:
I also fried one MOSFET, and it was hard to troubleshoot at first. My symptoms were like yours. A single bad transistor will make the whole bridge circuit behave strangely, like shorting out one or the other whole side. On mine, I finally tracked it down by replacing each MOSFET individually with a known good unit and looking at the resulting scope trace. Easy for me since, planning ahead, I used sockets for my mosfets instead of direct soldering. (I've been playing with mosfets for a good while now.)
Luc,
Look at the coil drawing again. Can you take measurement of your coil for me?
I also need to know the turns for the primary and secondary. Just update the
drawing and re-post it here.
[EDIT] I think the new transistor switch will be more robust. Mosfets are prone to failure when used with coils.
Regular transistors will take much more "abuse" before they break.
Groundloop.
Lookin good, Najman!!
Yes, builders should definitely use heat sinks for the transistors. If you use separate ones like I did, and don't let any other circuitry touch them, you can dispense with the insulating rubber or mica gasket and just mount directly to the heat sink. If you use a single sink for all the transistors they must be insulated electrically from the sink.
I realize it's a little late for design changes, but I find the addition of the LEDs on the mosfet outputs is a great help in troubleshooting and in demonstrating to others just what the H-Bridge is doing. These LEDs should be capable of being switched out of the circuit once things are running like you like.
Also, for those builders who might be constructing the "old" version using the IR 2103 (or 2104) drivers: I find that it is best to have the logic power ON and the clock signal supplied to the 4013, BEFORE applying main power to the bridge. If you put power into the bridge too soon, the mosfets aren't switching and may overload and pop.
Do you really need to ask how I found this out??
:P
i smell something :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D burning
@Najman100,
Looks great. :-)
But why trim the PCB? I designed the PCB so that you can mount the transistors
two ways. One, standing up and mounted to a heat sink. Or, lying down bolted to a L shape
alu. profile. Then the Alu. profile can be bolted to a bigger heat sink.
I some cases the user want to use a low load and then the PCB itself will be the heat sink.
That is way I have copper under the transistors. Same goes for the 7805 regulator. The PCB
will be the heat sink.
@TinselKoala,
You can always add a couple of wires to get your LED display. I did not put in anything extra
because I want the circuit to use as little power as possible.
Groundloop.
@Chris31,
If you have tested this and find that it will protect the mos drivers, then why not.
Can you make a simple drawing and post it here?
Although Transient Voltage Suppressor (TVS) will do a wonderful job of protecting mosfets, they also kill any over unity
in the circuit, I think? Better blow some transistors and get over unity results than have a stable circuit that runs forever
without any o/u. Please share your thoughts about this.
Groundlop.
I agree about the TVS potentially killing the "interesting" effects.
I usually put an additional fast diode across the source and drain of each mosfet, even though they have internal diodes, to channel the flyback pulse away from the transistor. But I feel the same way about these as I do about the TVS.
The driver chips are supposed to control the timing of the MOSFETS so that shoot-thru (both on) and no-current (both off) times are minimized. Other controller chips like the Intersil HIP 4081A have the capability to fine-tune these parameters.
There's some good stuff about power dissipation in MOSFET h-bridges in the Intersil application note:
http://www.intersil.com/data/an/an9405.pdf
@Chris31,
Thank you for providing the information. I think it will no problem for people
to solder components on the underside of the pcb. So I will leave it to
those that will replicate this circuit to use the extra components or not.
The new circuit does not use mostfets or mosfet drivers so I hope that
this circuit will behave better.
[EDIT] I just saw your resent post. Yes a single side pcb is ok. I have posted the
design files. I have checked that they will open in the new versions of Eagle. If you
want to hep out then just make a new single side board layout. It is too late for me
to do it now because I have already ordered the pcbs. I did not design in ICSP
because I want to keep the circuit as simple as possible.
Thanks,
Groundloop.
Wow, just got home to see you guys are really fast at the draw. I was late in posting this response to @groundloop but will put it anyways in case in rings some bells.
@groundloop
Thanks for explaining the two models.
What I am saying about the flyback is that if you are using let's say two 12vdc batteries in series so 24 volts to drive the coils via the transistors, then the flyback from the coils need a way to return back to the battery source.
What I have learned is the first rule of OU is to recycle as much energy from the source, back to the source. The more you can do this, the less you will rely on added OU coming from the coils and hence the more inclined the device will be to become an OU device.
This is a very interesting stage as I feel this is where the EE world and the OU world often clash. I am not trying to point to you in a bad way when I say this but it is part of our OUer reality that we try to understand the flyback phenomenon and USE it to our advantage, whereas we find that classical EEers look to buffer it out of existence. I have a feeling this is where some of the heat in the components is coming from. Flyback with no good home to return to. This one question or understanding is essential on both the EE and OU end of any project if there is to be both positive results and durable device function.
You can decide to forget the flyback, the flyback will never forget about you. It will always show its face at one time or another and wammo, fry them little suckers. We have seen this many many and many times before. Maybe this time, Tesla is standing by wondering if we will catch it or again be caught.
So, I know you are saying the transistor diode can handle it. For me this is EE talk. The OU talker is saying, hey, I don't want you to handle it, I want you to send it back to the source, period, no ifs ands or buts. This is where if both the EE and OU minds can come together, I know we will have some great results.
Every time I see one of @gotoluc's videos, I see them coils being pulsed and I am only wondering one thing, what about the flyback. I was hoping this thread would then get into the flyback discussion to figure out a strategy to USE it, before any mass circuits are made.
I have been around this forum long enough and have seen many many projects start and stop. When we start, we never think it will stop. We only think it will continue until success has been achieved. But something else I have seen on this forum and that is the dangers that happen once we see a project hit the fifth gear, full steam ahead only to bungle up, then no more momentum left to move forward. Guys, I have seen this enough and am telling you it may be time to take one step back, take a deep breath and think about this very carefully. I am not in a hurry to get a circuit. I can wait a little longer if it will make things 99% certain instead of what I feel is 70% certain right now.
@Najman100
Thanks. I will send you my coordinates. Don't get me wrong. Regardless of what I say above, I am still an OUer and willing to try anything, but I would have hoped for @gotoluc's sake and ours that the question of flyback be addressed seriously with an honest effort now to accommodate it, rather then running the chance of realizing this afterward.
Whatever, you guys rock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WOW!... Najman, you are a man on a mission ;D
Great job ;) thanks for doing this for all of us. I'll send you my address.
I was out today getting some sockets and other stuff to put together my 2nd board.
@Groundloop, I picked up a roll of 18ga. plastic coated wire to wind a test coil to see how well that kind of wire performs. Hopefully I have it done tomorrow and will give you an update.
@ramset, I received the extra amount I needed and the 6 batteries to do the self charge test are now bought: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&item=300281623770 thanks for your help.
@wattsup, I hear you brother ;) as you know I'm not much of an EE, so you can rest assured that I will do my best to study the effect and not get too caught up in the ideal circuit ;D I think we are on a good start and hope we can all work together.
Thank you all fro your time, efforts and sharing.
Luc
This MAN, LUC Is a hero of this community
He worked for MONTHS with Thane [I think at least four] Winding coils till his fingers blead
FOR NOTHING[at least in dollars]
Luc
I just got back [several days away working]
I know you thanked me for sending the money [which is in route,in the system]
But I suspect you have another contributer [which you should have many IMO]
I Know this is more of a PM kind of thing BUT!!
Other folks are contributing to your work
I don't know if others are aware [Newer members]
This MAN, LUC Is a hero of this community
He worked for MONTHS with Thane [I think at least four] Winding coils till his fingers blead
FOR NOTHING[at least in dollars]
Also A huge contributer in DR Stillfer's work
And Now working with Groundloop and others TO CHANGE OUR WORLD FOREVER
Chet
ALSO UNTIL HIS BACK GAVE OUT BUT HE DIDN'T GIVE IN EVEN THEN...
I BASICALLY HAD TO "CARRY" HIM TO THE CAR AT THE END OF EACH DAY.
THE RESPONSES HERE, THE HUMAN CO-LABOR-ATION OF ALL CONCERNED AND THE PACE IS TRUELY "INSPIRED"!
TO ANYONE WHO WANTS TO KNOW WHO INSPIRES LUC AND TO WHOM IT'S DEDICATED...
"Love is the currency of the Divine"
http://www.eaisai.com/baba/
Sathya Sai Baba - Team Player
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlH915HI-Y8&feature=related"If there is righteousness in the heart,
There will be beauty in the character.
If there is beauty in the character,
There will be harmony in the home.
When there is harmony in the home,
There will be order in the nation.
When there is order in the nation,
There will be peace in the world."
-Baba-
Hey Luc,
One of the most fustrating problems for me with breadboard'n circuits was those dern breadboard sockets get bad connections or even no connection at all with in the breadboard.It took me 4 ever to find a section with all good remainning connections at one time.I hope maybe that's all wrong with yours but that is the most fustrating thing for me sometimes..... keep'n a good breadboard.
Thank you Thane for the praises and for sharing some of my Guru's (Teacher's) teachings.
I had not seen this video until now.
Thank you for sharing.
Luc
@gotoluc,
It is very difficult for me to guess what is wrong with your circuit. But I will suggest also checking
the two diodes that are used on the IR2103 drivers. One way to insulate the problem is by
removing all the transistors and IR2103s. Then you connect the 12 volt and the signal generator.
Use your scope and check both logic outputs from the 40 IC. If both pulses is OK and
is going to the correct pins on the IR2103s then plug in one 2103 and check the output
pulses from that IC. Then test the next 2103. Check the transistors last.
Groundloop.
Well, I have yet to blow any of my 2104s. Of course I am only driving with 25 volts max. But I'm pushing the system pretty hard with all kinds of stuff bouncing back and forth. Mine are the SOICs too, so you'd think they would be less robust. My red Tesla bifialr primaries have very low resistance, almost a dead short, and the bridge doesn't really like that, but it has withstood it. But I do usually use a couple ohm resistor in series to keep the current down.
One difference is that I added 0.1 mFd bypass caps between pins 1 and 4, close to the chips. This might make a difference. Also the 50 ohm resistors on the gate drives.
You've got to have the switching logic running before you put power to the mosfets.
I goofed hard, and hooked up the 24 volt battery pack polarity backwards this afternoon. Big spark! Thought I'd killed the bridge for sure. After I got things hooked up right, nothing worked. Then I remembered the 15-amp fuse I put in the circuit. It did its job. Changed the fuse, and all is OK. Nothing blew, except the fuse!
Every time I turn my system on I learn something new. I new can see a tiny blue arc in the trimmer on the end of the air variable, when I hit that exact resonance that lights the LED so brilliantly. SO I am exceeding the voltage rating of that little cap, just at that point, and limiting the voltage with the short. With a better cap...yess...
Also had no trouble lighting up a little fluorescent tube today, ...with only one wire connected....
WOW, this is what I call colaboration. I'm very impressed.
najman100,
Great job on those PCBs, I know you from ionizationx. you also did a board design for that circuit I designed with stevie to drive the 3 primaries on a toroid.
You guys got me motivated to pull out my tesla coils and experiment....
I have an ideal I would like to share, not sure how it will work... but here it is:
how about if we use a air core transformer like the ones you are using now, but with 3 windings.
1st winding is your primary driven by the same method.
2nd winding having many more turns making a HV LC circuit. on this coil we only connect a capacitor to make an HV Resonance circuit.
3nd winding is your output coil.
Any comments are welcome.
Because pin 7 is the high side of the driver,
If you look at the block diagram of these drivers you will see HO pin 7 is using the bootstrap cap + diode for it to work.
Any spike getting to VS will blow the high side of the driver chip.
I dont even know if people are reading my post, I said this many times but it seems to be getting ignored. Reference design from the manufacturer doesnt mean its stable for every design, you will need to protect the components your self.
Anyway Ill keep quite for now and let you get on with it.
Luc,
I will solder the pcb from Najman100 as soon as I get it and mail it to you with A-priority air mail.
(You will also find 20 pcs of the IR2103s and 8 pcs. of the IRF840 FET-trans N-ch 500V 8A TO220 in the mail.)
That way you will have a circuit to test coils on until I get the micro controller version ready
later in January next year.
Groundloop.
I have an ideal I would like to share, not sure how it will work... but here it is:
how about if we use a air core transformer like the ones you are using now, but with 3 windings.
1st winding is your primary driven by the same method.
2nd winding having many more turns making a HV LC circuit. on this coil we only connect a capacitor to make an HV Resonance circuit.
3nd winding is your output coil.
Any comments are welcome.
Which is pretty much what I'm doing. Works amazingly well. Can light up all kinds of LEDs, little fluorescent tubes, etc.
Gave me a pretty good RF burn today, too. Punched a hole right through a fingernail. Ouch. Eh, what's that smell...something burning--Oh, it's ME!!
What is this the smoking finger gang?
I hope this isn't some kind of initiation!!
GEESH the flaming digits
Chet
Hi everyone,
Interesting to see the secondary is resonating at its own frequency? Looks like for every punch from the primary the secondary keeps resonating. Maybe this is where the extra energy is coming from???
Anyone care to comment.
Luc
Hello Luc
i suggest that you do not use your signal generator like that you might burn it ,looking at the scope shot i see the square is distorted maybe because of the BEMF comming back to the signal generator so the same thing gonna happen to the SG as it hapened to the 2103.
Najman100
Sai Ram Luc,
My secret Christmas wish to the Universe was that I could be able to fully finance your important work...
Because for anyone to comment correctly you really need to give everyone a full "3D" picture of what is going on or we end up like the "4 blind men trying to describing the elephant"
If you are using AC - you really ought to be monitoring the current, voltage and most importantly POWER FACTOR at ALL times.
(perhaps you should come and borrow a scope that can do that for you?)
This will tell you and all of us what is really going on in all the coils at all times.
Cheers
Thane
@gotoluc:
Yes, that is what I was trying to get across earlier. The signal generator driving the primary with a square wave, is like striking a gong. The secondary has its own resonant frequency, or wavelength, that may be approximated by taking the wire length as a quarter wavelength, then adjusting for various variables like capacitance, top load, etc. So your signal generator and capacitative coupling is acting like the HV power supply and spark gap of a Tesla coil system, and the air-core secondary is "ringing down" between driving pulses. If you can drive the primary directly at the secondary's ring frequency, you should get the most voltage amplification and greatest "range". The damped decay in the secondary's ring trace is related to the "Q" of the system. The better the "Q" the less decay in this ringdown trace.
I think.
You can determine the exact resonant frequency of your secondary, by looking at the output of the coil with the scope, through a 1-meg resistor. Drive the primary directly (or even just loop a turn or two of wire around) with a small signal from the SG (square waves work best). Hook the ground of the scope probe to the base of the secondary, and hook the probe to the 1-meg resistor, hook the resistor to the top of the secondary. Sweep the generator near the calculated frequency, and look for a peak on the scope trace==the output voltage of the coil will peak when you are driving the primary at the 1/4 wavelength resonant frequency.
Then, when you put power to a real primary using the SG amplifier or the H-bridge, this will be the frequency to start with.
To solve the holes in fingernails problem, I'll wear gloves. lol
@najman100
Thanks for your great work. I will get the parts ASAP once I have the circuit in hand.
@gotoluc
Hey man don't give up.
Such mishaps must be expected and are part of the discovery process. I expected it sooner or later and only hope I did not jinx the project with my post to @groundloop. But it was only made to keep this project as real as possible in expecting the unexpected from flyback which can or cannot be the main payback to source.
@groundloop
I have taken the last few days and looked over (with my limited EE-IQ) the spec sheets for the major components and looking at your last diagram to see how they work together. I now understand why you are sending the negative of the 50vdc feed into the source side of the two right IRF640's. If you were to use the same sides as the left two IRF640's you would have required two n-channel and two p-channels, and this way you can use four of the same. Did I catch that one OK. If two n and two p channels were used, would it provide other benefits?
Now here is my main concern. From the left you have the 12vdc positive that is supplying power to pin 1's of the two IR2103s, and it is also going through the two MUR1100E diodes then to the pin 8s. Then on each of the pin 8s you have this 100uf capacitor that is going to the pulsed output leads that go to the coils. So my worry again is the flyback that will hit that capacitor and enter into the pin 8s. So the only barrier between the steady 12vdc side and the pulsed 50vdc pulsed side with flyback is those two 100uF capacitors. Are these capacitors really required in the circuit. Since the circuit is relying on the 4013 to provide the regulated impulses from the FG giving the two IR2013s their pulse cadence, why would you need this feedback pin 8 on a capacitor? And, if this has to be, is it possible to put two small isolating coils between the capacitor and where it is connected on the other side of the resistor at pin 6. This would ensure no potential flyback to pin 8.
Then there are those two 22K resistors that are going from pin 7 to the pulsed outputs. Again, flyback voltages can be pretty high when pulsing with 50vdc and these resistors are the only thing between it and the pin 7 and again my question is do these resistors really have to be there. Does the pin 7 have to touch the outputs going to the coils?
In my mind, the reverse polarity outputs should have nothing on them other then the IRF640s that are doing the switching. Then from the two left IRF640s I see two other IRF640s that should be in parallel to the two left IRF640 that are doing the positive switching. The two added IRF640s can switch one flyback diode that is then connected "directly" back to the source of 50vdc.
If I was rubbing an old lamp (hmm why not a tube) and out popped an EE Genie that granted me one wish, I would ask for a switching system that could do as follows as my ideal EE pulsing and flyback control circuit.
1) positive, negative and flyback deviation connected at on pulse to outputs.
2) negative disconnected while the positive is still connected with the flyback deviation.
3) positive and flyback deviation disconnected
Repeat 1-3 to start new cycle but at reversed polarity.
Anyways, sorry for the long rambling on but again, for us OUers, flyback, flyback and more flyback is one of our main concerns and finding a way to "really" tackle this problem "without getting resistors and capacitors involved" would be a major step forward and truly worth the added effort here and I think it could be done with a total of six IRF640s or IRF840s. Two positive, two deviation, two negative.
I have done some major pulsing with my FG directly on the gate of IRF840s and they have held up very well compared to the 640s.
All the best.
wattsup
Have you tried an air variable across the secondary, like I showed in that video? By varying the capacitance you will vary the resonant frequency of the coil...It works frighteningly well for me.
I have no problem lighting up a NE-2 neon bulb with just one lead connected to the coil and another to me--that must mean at least 90 volts. And I can produce a continuous spark across inside this little transient spark gap thingie I found today...by fine-tuning the secondary with a variable capacitor...without even having the second lead hooked up !?!
The thing about flipped polarity DC vs. chopped DC will depend on your capacitance and frequency. At some frequencies there isn't much difference. At others the flipped polarity DC will act like AC (which it really is) and the chopped DC will act like AC with a DC offset (which it really is.)
Coils, by the process of induction, will generally always smooth out an inductive impulse to a sine wave response. But a square wave or pulse in the primary, with as short a rise time as possible, will produce the best inductive response in the secondary. The secondary's response will be sinusoidal even when the primary is pulsed with a square wave or rapid-rise pulse.
Usually.
Luc, it's really good to see you continue experimenting. I wanted to ask you were did you get that o-scope kit for the laptop, I would like to get one. Thanks Luc
@Wattsup,
Luc asked me to look into a circuit that used the 4013 and IRF640 because he had those components.
When I designed that circuit I relalized that I needed two high side drivers to get it to work. I desided to
use the IR2103 since I already have used the IR2103 and knew that IC. The data sheet for the IR2103
states that one should use a decoupling capacitor on both the low side switching (at the input of the IC)
and at the high side of the switching. These capacitors will help average the current going to the IC so that
the wires and other parts stay cold. The 100 nano Farad capacitor on the high side will help to reduce
heat in the diode. The IR2103 is designed to operate at up to 600 volt on the high floating side. The IC is
also tolerant to negative transient voltage and dV/dt immune. The hexfets used has internal diodes between
drain and source and will survive voltages up to the rated voltage for the types used. But you know Luc. He
immediately cranked his variable transformer up to 50 volt and ran the circuit. LOL
The back emf voltage pulses from the coil is brutal at this voltage level. He was operating the circuit very close
to the maximal voltage level permitted by the components used because of the back emf voltage spikes.
Luckily for us, Luc did not know that. The circuit barely held together and he found the new "effect" in his output coils.
Then he found that the initially used diode (1N4007) was warm when running the circuit. It is my best guess that some
of the back emf voltage was "burned" away as heat in this diode and when we change it to a faster type then the voltage
spikes had nowhere to go. The hexfets internal diodes was not fast enough to channel the back emf voltage back
to the power source so something had to give in at some point in the testing. The IR2103 was the one that couldn't
take it because of over voltage so the little IC just caved in and burnt the high side internal mosfet transistor. Then Chris31
chipped in and suggested a change in the design that will keep the IR2103 safe. I added the components he suggested
but has not tested the new circuit. There you go, now you know why this circuit is designed the way it turned out to be.
Now we has designed a new switch based on what we learned about the old circuit. I do not know if the new circuits
will be better or worse than the old one because I have never tried to run a coil as a load at these high voltage levels
before. I understand that we need transistors with a high voltage capability etc. The new design uses "floating" switches
that are powered directly from the high voltage side of the circuit. But, knowing Luc, he will probably crank up the
input voltage to 100 volt and just vaporize the transistors and opto couplers. LOL
That said, this is a good thing. Without Luc's testing we will never know what it takes to make a good circuit that
can survive the high voltages and also display the "effect" he discovered. So we are on a road of testing and designing
good circuits that can do the job and still work another day. I think that if we work together will will archive that goal.
I all in for P-Type mosfets and other circuit solutions. Anybody that has good ideas if free to design circuits solutions
and post them here. Please do a drawing of your deviation circuit and post it here. Your design may be very good and
can be the next circuit we build.
Now I would like to address a "phenomena" still floating around on free energy forums. People like to group other
people. I often hear words like EE's and OU's. I do not like it at all. In here we are a bunch of people working for
a common goal. There is no "us" or "them". We are all just peoples doing the best we can to develop something
that may work some day to help solve the energy problem once and for all. I can only look at myself as an example.
I started out my working career as a fisher man. Then I completed three years at college and was educated as an
radio and TV repair man. This is the only school years for me. I have played with electronics as a hobby since I was
approx. 9 years old. Now at 51, I have studied many books and try to keep up with the changing world as best as I can.
Does this makes me an EE? Yes and no. But in any case, I have had great fun with electronics as a hobby and for
the last 5 years also researching free energy circuits. I think is is the fun that keep me going.
Regards,
Groundloop.
Haven't watched the video as yet luc...but you certainly have the correct approach to life.
What people cannot grasp...is that when you work to fill your cup only, your task will never end...nor will your discontent.
When your mission is to fill the cups of everyone, your task will be effortless due to the state of satisfaction and well being which accompanies you, as you journey through life filling cups along the way.
Regards...
I am so glad to see the work of my friends. IMPRESSIVE!
Happy new years to all.
@gotluc,
thank you again for your excellent work and desire to serve all. (can you call me sometime this year 2008??)
@Groundloop
thank you for your excellent work on this thread and many others (one of them that I have been) (Hows the snow in your country?, I have been in Finland last month, it was beautiful people and place all over, I even met some nice people from Norwegian).
Now,
can you @gotluc, setup a final version or versions of different setups we have so far on the FRONT PAGE where we can just look at and keep up the changes up to date? so that people can replicate to the latest or to the latest that matters as a step foward?
So far I see 5 versions that people can replicate and make observations from:
1) the one you @gotluc found out in the beginning (manual switching)
2) version 2 where Groundloop offers a solid-state of the step 1)
3) version 3 where some members have point-out improvements on 2)
4) Groundloop's PIC microcontroller version to come on January 2009
5) a new changed version from 3) (I think???) with more improvements
do you guys see what I see????
We MUST get more organized (no criticism to anyone here at all, please :))
Lets allow all the versions on board but at the same time all controlled to new comers and old comers like me.
Fausto.
Hello all,
@gotoluc
Very nice work!!
Otto
Yes, I actually (almost) agree with metatorian.
Imagine a big bell, ringing at its resonant frequency. Any real resonant system experiences losses, so the ringing of the bell will eventually decay and become silent. But--what if the bell is sitting in an energy flux, or density, of some kind--say, it's suspended in a place where the wind blows by it and keeps it vibrating. Then, we could extract energy from the vibration of the bell (really from a much lower-grade source, the wind). Really, the bell is kind of a "Q-multiplier" for the wind energy.
So, my way of interpreting Tesla's goal of extracting energy from the "wheelworks of nature" is to look at a natural resonating system that is continually being replenished from a low-grade but essentially inexhaustible source. The Earth's Schumann cavity is such a resonating system, but since its characteristic wavelength is so very long, the apparatus to take advantage of it must be physically very large and powerful in its own right--hence out of reach to the typical home experimenter like me. So I am looking, more or less seriously, for smaller, higher-frequency systems that might also work as "Q-multipliers" for other, low grade but potentially inexhaustible, sources of energy.
I don't think there's anything "free" about what I'm looking for; at least CofE and the rest of thermodynamics has nothing to fear from little old me.
(But if there's a "Sugar Daddy" out there with some land and some money, looking for a project to capture the imagination, I'd be extremely happy to see a recreation of Tesla's Wardenclyffe tower and installation. There are some interesting things to be discovered with that apparatus--if HAARP hasn't already done so.)
Awesome stuff Luc!
Aum Sai Ram brother!
2009 is going to be an amazing year....
Ben.
Hello all,
yes, this year seems to be a good one.
@wattsup
I really dont need a new diagram. Hmmmm.....to be honest I saw all your diagrams but I still think the best for me is to build TPUs, test them.....I have soooo many ideas, you cant imagine.
Just an example if you allow: SM said in his way to use cores. A copper and an Aluminium core.
Otto
PS: Happy New Year. This will be a year of great discoveries here.
@Gotoluc
Great explanations to humanity!
Could you also explain the relation of applied Voltage to the RC (Resonating Coil) and the output? What if you play with input Voltage?
Increasing the applied Voltage will increase Voltage on the cap linearly or exponentially?
It seems you are receiving P = V2 / R = [0.8x0.8] / 10 = 0.064 Watts output,
Can you let us know the input to the system?
Why don't you utilize secondary wire as RA (Receiving Antenna) on the big Coil?
Best Wishes.
Hello all,
@gotoluc
as always a very nice video and explanations.
Maybe I forgot but how many turns has your big coil?
Otto
Great videos gotoluc! Video 4 got me thinking how much your setup reminded me of Tesla's wireless power devices. What would the readings be if your secondary circuit was an exact copy of the primary? If coil A resonates, then so should coil B if it is the exact copy of coil A. We could take it a step further and try using the same mass for each coil, but, with different gauges. For example... 1 pound(weight) of 22 gauge for coil A and 1 pound of 18 gauge for coil B.
How do you change or add capacitance to a self resonating coil without using/adding a capacitor? Or even how do you lower the inductance of a coil if you can't increase the capacitance?
Hi gotoluc,
Nice job on this thread. I appreciate your work here.
I saw these videos a while back, he has done something just like what your trying to do here, I think they're worth a look.
Introduction to Resonance
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xefg-EfC4Q (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Xefg-EfC4Q)
Resonance Continued
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2y9w9cbwcg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R2y9w9cbwcg)
Proof of over unity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idey7O0WlU0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Idey7O0WlU0)
Interesting resonant wave forms from pulsed dc using a tuned LC circuit - notice how the amplitude keeps going up as he increases the frequency to the next higher resonance level.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW3JW4g0No8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW3JW4g0No8)
Pulsed DC2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dmKewxW8RA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dmKewxW8RA)
So now the challenge is to put this extra power to work in a useful device.
Keep up the good work,
Thanks,
Shinz
Yep...you shouda took the easy out at 1st. :)
Hi All,
I'm sorry to report that my fixed oscillator switch (najman100 PCB) will not work as it is designed!
I have soldered up the PCB and tested the circuit today. First I found a design flaw, pin 16 on
the CD4009 was not connected to +12 volt. This is easy to correct, just solder a wire between
pin 1 and pin 16 on the IC.
After I corrected some soldering errors (mine) then I got the circuit as described in the drawing.
But, I encountered another problem, the crystal oscillator will NOT run. First I thought that I
had used a crystal frequency that was too high for the 4009 so I changed the crystal to 4 MHz
just to check. Still the oscillator did NOT run correct. I then rechecked the data sheet for
the CD4009 and saw that the IC does not have smith trigger inputs. So the oscillator will
not run with this IC no matter what I do.
The rest of the circuit performs well so I will modify the circuit to use an external oscillator input.
Attached is the updated drawings for such a circuit.
Again, I'm very sorry to have made such a huge mistake and wasted time for everybody.
As I said, the circuit will still work with an external oscillator from a signal generator.
Groundloop.
Hi All,
I'm sorry to report that my fixed oscillator switch (najman100 PCB) will not work as it is designed!
I have soldered up the PCB and tested the circuit today. First I found a design flaw, pin 16 on
the CD4009 was not connected to +12 volt. This is easy to correct, just solder a wire between
pin 1 and pin 16 on the IC.
After I corrected some soldering errors (mine) then I got the circuit as described in the drawing.
But, I encountered another problem, the crystal oscillator will NOT run. First I thought that I
had used a crystal frequency that was too high for the 4009 so I changed the crystal to 4 MHz
just to check. Still the oscillator did NOT run correct. I then rechecked the data sheet for
the CD4009 and saw that the IC does not have smith trigger inputs. So the oscillator will
not run with this IC no matter what I do.
The rest of the circuit performs well so I will modify the circuit to use an external oscillator input.
Attached is the updated drawings for such a circuit.
Again, I'm very sorry to have made such a huge mistake and wasted time for everybody.
As I said, the circuit will still work with an external oscillator from a signal generator.
Groundloop.
@najman100,
Yes. You can use the PCB you made as it is.
Don't solder the 4040 IC.
And don't solder the xtal and components around the xtal.
Then you solder a wire from pin 4 on the 4040 area to a external connector.
Also solder a ground wire (pin 8 at the 4040 area) to the connector.
Solder a wire between pin 1 and pin 16 on the 4009 IC.
Solder a wire from pin 11 to ground on the 4009 IC.
The circuit will then run with the same output frequency as you use on the signal generator.
Maximum input frequency is approx. 500kHz. (That is all the H11D1 can take.)
Groundloop.
@najman100,
Yes I will do that tomorrow. It is in the middle of the night now and I have been working
on this switch all day long. I will post a updated Eagle drawing. I will also try to make
the PCB a single sided layout.
Groundloop.
Here is a great article which shows a good model on which to base helical resonators. This is important in understanding 1/4 1/2 full wave, etc resonators.
http://www.ttr.com/corum/index.htm
@everyone,
I just uploaded a new video "test 10"
Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auFYEFBrwls
Luc
Here is a great article which shows a good model on which to base helical resonators. This is important in understanding 1/4 1/2 full wave, etc resonators.
http://www.ttr.com/corum/index.htm
@wattsup,
I have done the modifications of the najman100 PCB so that the circuit is like the new one
posted one page back. I have tested the circuit today and can give the circuit a true
green light. The switch itself uses very little current when running no load. I measures less
than 0,3 mA. I also ran the circuit with a 12VDC input and a 25 Watt (12V) light bulb as a
load. The circuit did run fine and lighted the bulb.
I have grounded all the three unused ports on the IC. I do not understand what you mean by pin 15?
I also have used the NPN version for both the high and low side of the switch. This is working OK for
me.
@najman100,
Please go back one page and download the newest posted version.
@Gotoluc,
I have finished the unit and will ship it to you tomorrow. Attached is a couple of images.
The red and black connector on the back side is for the logic voltage input. Use 15 Volt.
The red (plus) and black (minus) is the input for the low logic voltage input. The input
is secured for wrong polarity so if you mix the connectors the wrong way, nothing bad will happen.
(Do not forget to mount your 7812 regulator before testing the unit.)
The front has one female BNC for the signal generator input. The signal should be 12 volt.
The red (plus) and black (minus) is the input for the high voltage to the switch. The input
is secured for wrong polarity so if you mix the connectors the wrong way, nothing bad will happen.
The two blue connectors is the switch output.
Groundloop.
As far as I have been able to tell, the Corum's work has never explained how Tesla could easily pull 100 amps of current from his extra coil (third coil in the magnifier). They talk of standing waves and how they magnify voltage, but not how the energy in the magnifier is magnified. Also, as far as I can tell, they never produced the non-ionic charging effect around the elevated terminal of the magnifier. Richard Hull, who I believe still holds the record for longest discharges, stated that "nothing in the magnifier resonates". This is contrary to just about every explanation of the magnifier, but it's hard to deny Hull's results. Dollard did resonate his magnifer, but it was a directly coupled arrangement, where as most are loosely coupled.
In light of all the theories on the magnifier, I sort of developed my own ideas based on some interesting things that Tesla, Hull and Dollard all stated and it has nothing to do with resonance or even electromagnetic waves. It has everything to do with compression of the medium and the longitudinal waves that result from this.
At present the RPM provides a 10dB gain. This means that for every 1 unit of power input into the ring; the ring is then "pumped up" to store 10 units of power. This stored energy can then be dispatched instantaneously and continuously as clean real AC power with the current and voltage in phase. With advances in materials science, the RPM will be able to:
Achieve enhanced ring gains, providing stored power of a magnitude of up to 100 to 1000 times (20dB-30dB gains) that of the input power at room temperature.
Richard Hull, who I believe still holds the record for longest discharges, stated that "nothing in the magnifier resonates".
Thanks armagdn03, I looked up the work of the Corums and found this tantalizing tech called resonant ring power multiplier (RPM), where the stated goal is energy storage, but includes this OU teaser:
http://www.powermultiplier.com/newinvention.php (http://www.powermultiplier.com/newinvention.php)
Am I interpreting this correctly?
tak
Trust me when I say, the The Corum Bros have it figured out...........Maybe you should look for their latest work....... ;)
@Grumpy
I think anyone who states "nothing in the magnifier resonates" is the first clue that he has no idea what is going on, LOL. Everything resonates with everything else to a greater or lesser extent, the relationships between them determines the form and effects produced.
My take on this is a little different, what is seldom if ever considered is the fact that Tesla's special coil may have been copper, copper is diamagnetic having a low magnetic suseptability of -1.0, it has a resonant frequency and harmonics, it has fields influencenced by form, potential, wave period and frequency. Tesla hid some very intersting clues in patents not nearly exciting as his magnifying transmitter, some of these patents include therapeutic devices whereby two wires could be connected anywhere on a short strap and a differing potential would develop across the two wires, the potential developed across the wires was based on how close the wires fell to maximum and minimum potentials of a wave form or changing tensions on the wire ---- in this case we are speaking of relatively short wave periods. If this short strap was extended to a longer helical form then the intersection of maximum and minimal tensions could fall across parrallel conductors in this helical form, these tensions could then be considered constructive or deconstructive, they could lead or lag one another in well know phase relationships. If the wave period were minimized further we are then dealing with alternating potentials as a surface effect as shown below---eddy currents, these surface effects if expanding or radiating to the space surrounding a conductor and cutting other conductors would then constitute an induced current as induction as a general term includes both electric and what we consider to be magnetic fields. Remember induction requires change and this change must be considered in an absolute sense where all components and all forces are considered. I may not know much but I know you will not solve this riddle with generalized textbook equations, this is something very different from what I would consider standard practice. Tesla's machines utilized resonance but with what? and on what level? When you figure this out I believe you are going to be very surprised at your answer.
@armagdn03
That is a nice link, the Corums definately have something.
Best Regards
AC
1. Why did Tesla use the pancake coil arrangement?
2. Why is the primary outside the secondary? Why MUST it be this way?
3. What is the nature of the field produced in the space outside the "extra coil" and top terminal?
4. Why is it a dielectric effect and not a reactive power one?
5. Regarding Tesla's short strap, what was occurring along its length?
The pancake coil inside the primary represents a huge diameter piece of coax.
If you look at his patent announcing this invention you realize that Tesla evented coax too. Dont know how many people here remember the old 300ohm lead ins from roof top television antennaes but it was bifilar seperated by a dielectric also. What it does do is align the dielectric current with the magnetic current so the wave keeps trucking "longitudinally" down the length of the coax. In this case the longitudinal move isn't far before it runs into the antennae.
Sparks pays attention when briefed. ;D Kudos and all due respect to you sir!
LMD wave is in the dielectric of the coax, condcutor is a guide.
Answers to questions - may all "trolls" break out a fresh pen for the log book.
1. Why did Tesla use the pancake coil arrangement?
Tesla found that a compression field was produced inside a circular conductor, rarefaction field (decompression is produced outside a circular coil). This compression field is transformed by the secondary, resulting in a very high potential. Depending on the variables the highest potential may NOT be at LC resonance, hence he tuned for effect. The compression only occurs during the rise of the pulse, with decompression occurring at the fall of the pulse. Like I have said over and over - compress - compress - compress - no decompression or you lose it. Back many years ago this was loosely referred to as "field pumping" by some basement experimenters - 1000:1 gain. As far as I know they are all gone as I can locate none of them.
What am I talkin' about? CAVITATION OF THE MEDIUM ITSELF!
2. Why is the primary outside the secondary? Why MUST it be this way?
The compression field will always be inside a circular conductor, to be outiside would force it to expand which is not the way it works.
3. What is the nature of the field produced in the space outside the "extra coil" and top terminal?
The "current" produced in this space is a mass-free polarization current. No ions. No electrons. It literally runs with gain and can achieve astronomical levels - literally.
4. Why is it a dielectric effect and not a reactive power one?
Different direction. Reactive power is a state of storage not a current.
5. Regarding Tesla's short strap, what was occurring along its length?
If we refer to the same thing, then the short strap is a primary and not a coil of high self-induction which would have the loads connected to it.
Cold electricity is like a pressurized energy state - it seeks to balance - to relieve the pressure - like everything else.
Something else of note, when Tesla referred to "currents of conduction" - in what medium was he referring to? Not a conductor, but a dielectric medium!
I also dont want to get into a pissing contest, so I will not reply to any of the statements you have made, (im not saying you are wrong!) But I do want to point out that you have pointed out more effects without pointing out how they should be used. If it is energy we are after, how do these observations lead us in that direction?
Tesla hid some very intersting clues in patents not nearly exciting as his magnifying transmitter, some of these patents include therapeutic devices whereby two wires could be connected anywhere on a short strap and a differing potential would develop across the two wires, the potential developed across the wires was based on how close the wires fell to maximum and minimum potentials of a wave form or changing tensions on the wire ----
Gotoluc, Thanks for leading me to the osilliscope that you are using I will be buying one. With your redo of Armadn03 resonances with a coil, and two light bulbs, one within the LC and the other before the LC to show current draw.
I understood this before UNTIL you showed that different cap values actually increased or decreased the amount of current draw from the FG. I just thought that when you put a different value cap in, and readjust the FG to the new resonant frequency of the coil, that was it. Can someone explain why the dirrent value caps, even though they were all tuned to resonance, gave different current draw from the FG.
Second, Ive been on the side lines following and listening and wanted to congratulate all on the progress of this thread.
I got really confused when this circuit came into play that everyone is getting the boards made for.
I have Armagdn03 Pulsed DC circuit driver, will that function the same, and I assume a FG will also work well but a lower power level. Hopefully I could get this explained also so I can get up to speed. Hopefully this will help others also. Thanks again Fern
Thanks guys
That sounds familiar...
Video by Karl Palsness on the Energetic Forum
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDWF50fUoYY
maybe not the same patant, but sounds like a similar principle...
Gotoluc, Thanks for leading me to the osilliscope that you are using I will be buying one. With your redo of Armadn03 resonances with a coil, and two light bulbs, one within the LC and the other before the LC to show current draw.
I understood this before UNTIL you showed that different cap values actually increased or decreased the amount of current draw from the FG. I just thought that when you put a different value cap in, and readjust the FG to the new resonant frequency of the coil, that was it. Can someone explain why the dirrent value caps, even though they were all tuned to resonance, gave different current draw from the FG.
Second, Ive been on the side lines following and listening and wanted to congratulate all on the progress of this thread.
I got really confused when this circuit came into play that everyone is getting the boards made for.
I have Armagdn03 Pulsed DC circuit driver, will that function the same, and I assume a FG will also work well but a lower power level. Hopefully I could get this explained also so I can get up to speed. Hopefully this will help others also. Thanks again Fern
Thanks guys
@armagdn03
You mentioned you were driving the ozone patent with an AC square wave.
Luc, is it possible to adjust the pulse rate on Tesla's Apparatus for the Production of Ozone ?
Regards...
I understood this before UNTIL you showed that different cap values actually
increased or decreased the amount of current draw from the FG. I just thought
that when you put a different value cap in, and readjust the FG to the new
resonant frequency of the coil, that was it. Can someone explain why the
dirrent value caps, even though they were all tuned to resonance, gave
different current draw from the FG.
Resonance is just a means to an end as far as Mr. Tesla was concerned. Of course we can get a kid swinging alot faster on a swing with proper input of kinetic energy. But the Gain of the system is in the heigth of the child over the ground. The resonant circuit is just a means to pump up the voltage until this voltage becomes relavent to the rest of the whole damn electrical distribution of the Universe. The secondary or coil of high selfinductance will cause a standing wave.
This is a wave that goes just so far and then returns upon itself in phase. The amplitude of the wave or intensity is increased with each input pulse. Energy now being stored in the resounding system. What is not so apparent is that the crests and troughs of the wave are becoming relavent not only to each other but to the rest of the electrical field about the standing wave. THERE WILL BE A FLOW OF ENERGY INTO THE SYSTEM IN EXCESS OF THAT NEEDED TO MAINTAIN THE STANDING WAVE due to it's relativity to the electrical polarization of the field about the standing wave. If the node and antinode of the standing wave fall upon large conducting fields we draw on their relative voltage and our system starts to appear as a short circuit for these large capacitor plates.
@duff
Really good work. Since we know all coils also have some capacitance, I would have really liked to know the capacitance of each set-up especially the bottom left which is the bifilar arrangement.
@ Duff:
In message 364 you did the calculations on the circuit. By what you have
done, is there a way you can derive the freq on the LC side as well. I guess
this would fall into the formula for Fr.
The reason for this is in a sim I watched, the LC side of the circuit was
moving much faster than the input frequency was. The input was calculated
to be the resonant one for the cap/coil pair. Can you see where I am going
with this?
For high Q, you want a low value of L and a higher value of C.
Very often, however, the conditions may be such that the gain sought is not realized directly by diminishing the resistance of the circuit. In such cases the skilled expert who applies the invention will turn to advantage the reduction of resistance by using a correspondingly longer conductor, thus securing a much greater self-induction, and under all circumstances he will determine the dimensions of the circuit, so as to get the greatest value of the ratio of its inductance to its resistance, which determines the intensity of the free oscillations.
@Grumpy,
There should be a logical and sensible path by which we all *understand* why are things the way they are, and then applying that understanding we could create working circuits with little or no experimental effort. The experimentation has already been done for us in the past 200 years. The theory has already been laid out as well.
We need to start (re)learning (and unlearning of the dogma of later part of 20th century) and understanding what those giants of science in the past really meant and did... :)
Hi everyone,
I just uploaded a new video and would like everyone who can check to see if my way of calculating the power is correct.
Please post your comments :)
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8zch1De-Q
Thanks for your time.
Luc
Hi everyone,
I just uploaded a new video and would like everyone who can check to see if my way of calculating the power is correct.
Please post your comments :)
Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8zch1De-Q
Thanks for your time.
Luc
@Luc
You have some people giving some good solid information and methods (math) to figure out and present what you have. I would like to add a point that none engineers sometimes don't even think of and that is a resistor is not a resistor. Unless you use carbon resistors at fairly low frequencies you have to include their other characteristics in the computations. These power resistors very all over the place on inductance. I have for example included a picture of a 10ohm 25W resistor being measured at close to 750kHz.
This fact may be of interest to some and should be to all that include them in RF circuits.
Luc,
1st I want to say great videos you have been doing.
Now about the calculations, from personal experiency, measuring power in VS power out using a resistor in series with the input circuit and a resistor in parallel with the output circuit will allways misslead you to OU.
I attached a snapshot that shows what I'm talking about. The top scope graph shows the voltage accross the output resistor and the bottom graph shows the voltage accross the input resistor, it clearly shows that this method of comparing power in VS power out is incorrect.
Now I'm not an EE, but I think the reason for this, it is because measuring it like this does not take in consideration for the inductor/capacitor reactance and in this case it is about 316 ohms for the inductor and 316 for the capacitor at 50.3 Hz. So I'm thinking if we use resistors that match the reactance resistance, then we could get acurate readings.
I also have been testing resonance circuits and have not yet verified OU.
@gotoluc
What appears very interesting in your setup is each coil is actually a step down transformer.
Am I seeing right? Are those secondary windings made of only a few turns of thick wire?
Could you give us the figures of how many windings the primaries and secondaries are?
Hello all,
It occurs to me that if you want to have a resonant circuit, it must be 'annoyed' into producing usable energy - in other words, it must want to do work through sound, light, heat or motion or some combination thereof rather than ground out. It should work in the same way that a simple radio works ( but without being grounded )
It also occurs to me that when you ground something, chemicals in the soil may be producing a net electrical difference through differential metals and extraordinarily small currents or voltages should be accounted for and negated when taking measurements.
So doe the resonant effects have anything to do with simplistic radio or am I wrong?
- - -
I've been looking over this thread, and it appears that none of the devices built and shown should ever be taken near an airport - they all look like pipe bombs.
Hi Dr. Stiffler,@gotoluc
thank you for taking the time to share this very valid and valuable information. As I said above I was not happy with my attempt to measure the coil efficiency, so I made a new video and I would ask for you to look at it to see if you agree with this way of calculating the performance output of each coil. I do believe the use of the 10 ohm resistor as load on each 30,000uf cap is accurate enough since that large cap size should be more than enough to smooth it to DC. After doing the video and seeing your post I attached the probes to one of the coil output cap and I attached the scope shot below. Looks fairly flat to me and I am also happy to report my meters are accurately displaying the volts the scope is displaying.
The only thing I can see where there may be a problem is the 10 ohm input resistor. The frequency at this time is 300Khz, do you think if I pickup a accurate carbon resistor we could measure to a satisfactory result?
Link to new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylnH1-UGITE
Thank you for sharing
Luc
@everyone,
can someone please explain to me how to correctly measure and calculate my signal generator output ???... please keep in mind that I have no electronic knowledge so using words or letters that are related to this feild means nothing to me.
Please just explain it in plain English... like example: put scope prob A across SG and probe B across input resistor, then take RMS voltage reading of probe A and multiply by probe B RMS voltage, then divide by resistor value and this amount would be your watts in.
Can someone please do this favor for me.
Thank you for your time.
Luc
Sai Ram Luc,
If you bring it to the lab I can show you how to do it.
Cheers
Thane
Hey that's right both of you are in Ottawa. My brother Archie lives in Ottawa near Bank and Fifth. Maybe I should zip by some weekend.
Thane, I saw your gigantic thread (388 pages - shit) , read the last 10 pages but did not catch much of what you are doing with all that commotion going on. Sounds like your motor is doing OU or not I don't know but you do have a nice looking set-up. Actually Archie knows a lot of people in Ottawa and some at the National Research Council and maybe they could be convinced to take a look at your machine. Hmmmm.
A little more then two years ago I had organized a demo at my home of a device made by this french guy in Quebec City that I also had invested in (my stake was minimal compared to some other guys). I had also invited and managed to convince after long discussions, a professor from McGill University Engineering Dept. who is a specialist in Energy Conversions. Maybe I can convince him to test your unit at McGill. Actually I would have to be convinced first. I even had some investors present notably one from Ontario, a major Gear Retailer. Needless to say our demo did not pan out well and the guy in Quebec was sent back to the drawing board. Yes, I signed an NCND at that time but know better today. All open source. I remember so well, while we were waiting for the batteries to charge up again for our second trial, we were sitting outside and the professor said "you know I have been teaching EE for the last 25 years and if what you are claiming is true, I will have to throw all of that in the garbage, so before I put my name on anything, because you will there after be famous and so will I (meaning the professor), I must make more then absolutely sure there is no mistake and to do this, we will need three months of daily measurements. We all laughed so hard.
Well its been long enough since this thing was tested so I will put up the only photo ever taken of it. Sorry for the quality. I had forgot my macro feature was on and the inventor was really touchy about taking any pictures but I told him to realize we needed at least one picture for posterity. Ya ya. It's a drive motor using a gear system specially made to run two alternators. Wound up being like 92% efficient.
Oh yeh, last might I tested the alternator theory. Forget it. There is simply too much iron in the thing to get any type of meaningful resonance. It felt like I was trying to revive a dead corpse. Clear.
The last post from @armagdn03 gave me a great idea for a new motor generator. Hmmmm. Should I or should I not work on it. I will do some rough drawings and post it somewhere here and see if guys think it would work. Funny, it would be something like Thane's but all in one motor/generator with no waste at all.
Anyways, have a good one.
(Sorry for off topic.)
Maybe I'm being a little paranoid Luc...but I have to tell you I bristled when you talked about closing the loop and then announced your travel plans.
Regards...
Hey that's right both of you are in Ottawa. My brother Archie lives in Ottawa near Bank and Fifth. Maybe I should zip by some weekend.
Thane, I saw your gigantic thread (388 pages - shit) , read the last 10 pages but did not catch much of what you are doing with all that commotion going on. Sounds like your motor is doing OU or not I don't know but you do have a nice looking set-up. Actually Archie knows a lot of people in Ottawa and some at the National Research Council and maybe they could be convinced to take a look at your machine. Hmmmm.
Anyways, have a good one.
(Sorry for off topic.)
@gotoluc
I get my wire at Abra Electronics in Montreal.
135$ for 10lbs of 30awg mag wire. They have the other awgs too.
http://www.abra-electronics.com/
This may be useful for you on how to measure.
http://www.thekeeser.com/Electronics%20info/measure_an_unknown_inductor.htm
@ Gotoluc
Can you use the same setup with your H bridge and with higher voltage?
Also can you apply full bridge rectifier to the (RC) Receiver coil with your fast diodes?
Above formula, in theory should double your output!
Afterwards please consult with Dr. Stiffler or Giantkiller to combine TPU kicks into resonance??
Best Regards,
Nuri Temurlenk
Istanbul, TURKEY
Hello all,
@Gotoluc
if you use higher voltages dont connect your scope probe to the coil(s) and take care of yourself because its dangerous.
Otto
Wattsup,
I used to live on Regent St. which is 1 street over from 5th, just off Bank St - it's a small world.
I am using Youtube as more of a teaching tool since the "perepitiea" thread is infected with spooks.
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=ThaneCHeins&view=videos
@ Luc tell me what you think of the prototype I sent to California yesterday titled "INSTRUCTION VIDEO"?
I learned a lot from you in our time together and I tried to apply it during its construction.
Everyone ought to know that Luc was instrumental in taking the Perepiteia Generator to the next level - one more feather in his cap!
I hope to return the favour some day soon.
Cheers
Thane
This is a wonderful site explaining many tricks and tips for High Frequency measurement techniques
http://www.emcesd.com/ (http://www.emcesd.com/)
Sort of like this?
(The Tesla powerplant in the picture is drawing about 35 VA from the wall. It's shown lighting a CF bulb, sans power supply, to full brilliance with no wires. It will light as many as you can pack into the space near the bulb, for the same current draw from the mains. There is the standard 1/rsquared falloff with distance, but I believe that can be overcome.)
Hi Tinsel!
Great picture.
I have a couple of questions.
a) is your tesla powerplant basically a tesla coil?
b) when you put more lamps near the coil, do they still light with the same brightness as when you put one there? I've just done a coil myself, and when I place three bulbs on my toroid they seem to light slightly dimmer than when i use just 1. Obviously I was rather disappointed!
PS. Has anyone noticed that when you touch the bulbs AFTER the coil is turned off, they light once more for a few seconds. Is this just the bulb discharging into the ground? The same thing seems to happen if it touch it with a ground wire.
Thanks guys
Lovely! I love the coronas.
I use CFs with the power supply base removed, though. Just the naked bulb. I think the power supply could be short-circuiting some of your energy. Can you do a comparison with one bulb with PS and one without?
Hello all,
Look at Gotolucs message 412. He wanted TPU kicks and I gave him my solution.
@sparcs
1. pulse first a 100W bulb. Result: nothing of course.
2. pulse a little coil, say, 30 turns, diameter of the windings maybe 12mm or 1/2" AND connect the 100W bulb in paralel to the pulsed coil. Result......
3. place a core inside the coil
4. use a cap for resonance
.
.
.
.
There is a lot to learn.
Otto
I'm not completely certain I understand you Tinsel. Do you mean that you dont put your bulbs in direct contact with your coil?? I sit my bulbs on top of my toroid, usually - but of course they do work within a distance of about 1 metre from the coil. So I think you'd like a picture of a bulb sitting on the toroid, and one of a bulb just sitting nearby (or in my hand like your picture). Correct me if i'm wrong and i'll take the photos tonight, when the baby aint home!
If your coil has any power at all, and you let the true Tesla discharge hit the glass envelope of the bulb, it will likely punch a tiny hole in the glass and let the gas out (or in, or whatever). I've ruined many glow-discharge tubes by this method.
But just lighting up the bulbs is way simpler, with the properly-tuned power plant. If your coil is truly broadcasting the power in the way that Tesla intended (I think...) you should see no corona at all and there should be no sparks to the bulb(s). My primary spark gap is closed almost all the way for this picture.
Like this: (an old photo; I'd do a new one but the coil is out of my hands right now)
Wow! I havent managed to explode any bulbs yet - probably get me in a bit of trouble with the missus. And my spark gap is about 5mm open. I made the coil with the intention of increasing the streamer length, though I agree 100% that this wasnt what Tesla intended - Just a fun toy! The streamers are just wasted energy.
I'll try shortening the spark gap over the next few days, and playing with the length of the primary coil - just to see what results i get concerning the lamps. I'll see if i can get rid of the corona, and light as many bulbs as possible....Wish me luck!
In a week or so I'll pick up a video-recorder and show you what I mean about the after glow of the lamps after being in the vicinity of my coil.
Do you think, then, that a properly constructed coil demonstrates OU because the output power involved in lighting the bulbs exceeds the input power to the coil? Have you tried building receiver coils to tap this OU???
Thanks again guys, for all your inspiration :D
The holes punched by Tesla discharges don't explode the tubes! Thank goodness--what they do is to punch extremely tiny little holes in the glass, that then let the gas out, or the air in. You can' t see these holes and the leak might be slow--it might take hours for the gas to leak out. But they are there.
The corona streamers from your coil in the photos are not what I consider a true "tesla discharge". The true TC arc is a thick, purple ropy thing that doesn't divide like corona streamers do, and has a characteristic clean humming or buzzing sound, not a sizzle like corona. The TC discharge carries a lot of current, but the corona streamers don't.
I would say, in my photo above, that the primary gap was closed to less than half a millimeter. You wouldn't even think the system was running if not for the lights.
I think that, IF there is excess energy available from any Tesla configuration, that it must come, not from the coil itself, but from outside somewhere. That is, I think that a properly-tuned TC (not a sparker!) can maybe sometimes "pull in" or act as a receiver for energy that is sloshing around in the earth's Schumann cavity, or in other widely distributed capacitances that may be around, hanging out in energy fluxes like from the Sun or the earth's magnetosphere.
SO In my conception, the coil isn't creating energy, it's just transducing it. That is, if there is any excess there at all to begin with.
And I think that resonant systems of other kinds MAY also be able to tap into some of this stored, and replenished, energy in these hidden reservoirs. Hence my involvement in these threads.
Hi All,
I have received the new PCB's for the micro controller H-Bridge switch and is currently testing the software.
I will need a PM with a snail mail address from:
@Fausto
@Wattsup
@TinselKoala
@ramset
@duff
I will snail mail the boards as soon as I get an address to mail to.
Attached is a image of the new switch.
Have to solder on the transistors and put the circuit into a plastic box.
Best regards,
Groundloop.
@everyone,
I have been quiet for some days but don't think I'm not continuing the Resonance tests!... I even dream of it when I sleep ;)
Two days ago I discovered something new (to me anyways) to which I will share a circuit very soon.
I am able to get my coils resonating using only one wire as an input pulse!... no return and no ground!... how's that for efficiency ;D
I am not claiming overunity but things are getting really efficient :)
Stay tuned
Luc
Two days ago I discovered something new (to me anyways) to which I will share a circuit very soon.
I am able to get my coils resonating using only one wire as an input pulse!... no return and no ground!... how's that for efficiency ;D
@OC
Any moving charge alters the magnetic field. The magnetic field is inertia expressed as an electrodynamic event. You have the Earth and it spins and it creates the magnetosphere. You got Venus it doesn't spin very fast at all (one year one day) no magnetosphere. You got the Sun spinning two different ways split at the equator weird magnetosphere. You got protons spinning magnetic dipoles. You got electrons spinning magnetic dipoles. You got a top spinning hmmm you got an inertia relativity. You got a neutron it dont spin no magnetic reaction no electric reaction. Just a big old dead sphere. Like a black hole.
Luc,
In the first circuit, with the 1 ohm resistor in series with the bulb, you can look at is as a simple voltage divider.
I = E/R = .045V/1 = 45 ma
Resistance of bulb being
R = E/I = 3/.045 = 66.7 ohms
In the second circuit you removed the bulb from the circuit and inserted the primary winding. The impedance of the primary winding must be greater than the resistance of the bulb since the current went down.
I = E/R = .0219/1 = 21.9ma
I am somewhat surprised that there is 3 volts across the bulb in the secondary. I question whether the bulb still has a 66 ohm resistance - don't know but it is interesting.
Perhaps you could provide a little more information.
1. Voltage out of the function generator
2. Inductance of primary and secondary.
3. Resistance of primary and secondary windings.
Maybe that will give us a few more answers....
As far as trying to close the loop you might look at the circuit that poynt99 uploaded yesterday. It runs on about 50mW.
Simple Cheap Low Power Oscillators v1.0.pdf
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item221 (http://www.overunity.com/index.php?action=tpmod;dl=item221)
It appears to me that your testing the MRA concept without using the barium ferrite magnet and the piezoelectric transducer.
-Duff
Luc,
I disagree with dankie...
I spent a fair amount of time in trying to achieve your results and could not. My results were as one would expect with normal transformer action. I used the parts I had on hand except for the rectifier and I ordered the one you were using in the earlier experiments (SBI 3040PT) but was still unable to support a load like you have shown in the videos.
I assume you are driving the circuit with a signal generator (not groundloops circuit) being that you did not mention it. Is that correct?
If you are using groundloops circuit could you please try it with the signal generator only and let us know the results.
The best way to tell if you have OU is to close the loop (you already know that). If you can get the same results with only a signal generator I'd try Pony's circuit.
By all means keep experimenting until you can resolve this question.
Also, please give me the diameter, height, wire gauge & spacing between your coils + anything else you can think of that might be unique, I'm going to try to replicate your results again....
Good Work!
-Duff
@dankie
Not very coooooool. Easy to talk.
@gotoluc
Good vid. I don't know about the measuring side. I noticed that both scope probe grounds were connected to the circuit. I usually never use the ground so I am wondering about that aspect, when to use it and when not to use it when doing scope measurements.
But it looks like there is more coming out.
I am curious if you tried the same set-up but see if the center coil can go in sideways into the outer coil and see the difference. This will cut the outer coils in a different manner that may be better. Also trying with an iron core just placed inside the center coil. It is good to have a base that you can then compare other coils and configurations onto a known method, to see what gives better results. I would hope that's where most of the guys spend their time - lol. Just trying the hell out of every method.
Lol is Gotuluc expecting overunity from resonance ??? I though this was just physical resonance experiments for people to see when they are starting out ... This thread has lasted for months Gotoluc , why cant it just die in peace ??
Gotoluc , Where did you ever get that crazy idea that resonance = overunity of effective power ? You have only voltage and no effective power , what are you thinking here ? You have to find something to destabilize , you have to use that non-effective , very efficient power to create an unstable condition and gain power from that ...
Resonance is an effect they talk about in elementary electronics books , never has it been overunity , its something any circuit simulator can replicate , theres nothing there ...
Hi dankie,
thanks for posting your comments.
I am very opened to seeing what you are working on and would be happy to see a video demo, pictures or anything you may have of your working device.
Looking forward in seeing this information.
Luc
Sure Gotuluc , plz repond to my pm bro
Hi Duff,
Would you mind running the simulation with a small modification, just to check the following:
R_dummy=1e12 (and not 1e-12) and connecting it between node points 5 and 0.
Maybe you will get the same results in the simulation but normally you would not put a short circuit (1e-12) between nodes 5 and 3 in practice, 3 being the most sensitive point of the resonant circuit.
In Spice based simulations the dummy resistors are of GigaOhm values, that is what I used to include, to get rid of the ground independent nodes in a circuit.
Thanks, Gyula
EDIT: just thought of it: why there is no sinusoidal waveform (or nearly sinusoidal) across the lamp? Values of L1 and C1 do give indeed 0.5MHz resonance but your pulse generator gives out 54.7kHz?? (PER = 18.28us) Is that so?
Two other thing in your simulation:
1) Luc uses a signal generator that I assume has got a 50 Ohm output impedance and I wonder if you included it in your simulation as the inner impedance of your generator?
2) The coefficient of coupling (k) between your L1 and L2 can significanly influence the output towards load resistance (i.e. the bulb) so I wonder what value you used in the simulation? Seeing the photo of your coils I would say 0.5 - 0.6 for (k), a rough guessing of course. You (and probably Luc too) may have noticed when moving a little one of the coils away from or closer to the other, the output power (hence the brightness of the bulb) is changing accordingly.
My understanding on this setup in general is that the problem is how to utilize reactive power circulating in resonant circuits and the answer is not that easy at all: at the moment I can only suggest studying Hector's rotoverter setups because the problem basically is the same, there are already so called "peak extraction" circuits that seem to be able to do it (at least in paper) but no any report on a successful VAR power extraction yet...
Member esaruoho at energetic forum has addressed this same problem just today, his posts #235 and #236
http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1507-roto-verter-8.html
Regards, Gyula
EDIT: just noticed you use R_lp=0.25 Ohm for the primary coil copper resistance and Luc stated 2.5 Ohm, right? This has significance in simulation only if you did not use a 50 Ohm generator inner impedance because the figure of merit (i.e. the Q quality factor of L1) comes out much higher in that case.
I was just responding to Gotuluc asking for our opinions , that is my opinion .yeah write ;D ;D ;D ;D go back to ionizationx and stay there and crack stainly meyers and as i told you i will build a monument for you in LAVAL .
I like Gotoluc , he is Canadian ...
yeah write ;D ;D ;D ;D go back to ionizationx and stay there and crack stainly meyers and as i told you i will build a monument for you in LAVAL .
Najman
No, I did not account for that. Actually I've never thought about how I would do that. If you could provide an example I would appreciate seeing how that is handled.
Actually that was listed in the deck file:
k1 l1 l2 .9
I know that was too high but the intentions were to just get close enough to give some kind of a base line as to what should be expected.
[EDIT]
Update a mistake in netlist - changed R_Lp from 0.25 to 2.5 ohms
This really didn't make a difference in the waveforms - yes probably affected the circuit Q.
Although not shown below I did try decreasing the coupling between the coils to 0.60. that resulted in an increase in amplitudes which is less believable.
It would be better to use full wave rectification so that half of the output power be not lost.
You may wish to use a bridge made from 1N4148 or 1N914 diodes if you do not happen to have low power Schottky types. (The best would be to have Germanium types -1N34 or similar- to minimize forward voltage drop.)
BTW, I don't know at what size your capacitance is at to get your output of over 3 volts but keep in mind that too high a capacitance will reverse the resonant circuit savings. From all the tests I have done to date, there seems to be only one ideal (energy saving) capacitor size at a specific frequency for an inductor within a specific pulse generator circuit.
Did you try your 0.68 ohm series resistor to calculate the current on either side of the Signal Generator to see if the noise level is less on one side then the other. I had the same thing but I used the side that is the cleanest.
Luc had determined several weeks ago that SBL3040PT diode got the best results, so I built a FWB using them. I then compared the output with that of a 1n4148 FWB. The SBL3040 did the best job, however strangely the half-wave bridge performed better. Not what I expected...
1n4148 Full-Wave Bridge
3042 KHz - 3.018VDC
SBL3040 - Half-Wave Bridge
306.2 KHz - 3.59VDC
SBL3040 - Full-Wave Bridge
303.2 KHz - 3.285VDC
All were using a 330V 80uF capacitor from a disposable camera
@Luc
Initially I used a 10uF cap with the SBL3040PT diode and was getting the 3.221V out, however now I have a 330V 80uF cap in the circuit. I'm still getting about the same voltage but I was trying to smooth out some of the ripple.
It seems you have to increase the magnetic flux density within an small area. I think that's why my taller inductors were not working even though they had little higher inductance. If you remember the output was only 0.66V
I know you did some experiments with the flat bifiliar spiral but I might try a few more being I already have a small one wound.
Moving the current sensing resistor to the other end of the circuit places it at the positive lead of the function generator. Then when you connect your probe and ground lead across the resistor you introduce a ground in the middle of your circuit. That upset things...
Below are a few images. I wanted to show the wave form across the 0.68 current sensing resistor which for me presents a problem of calculating input current.
Yes, I see what you mean :'(.... this is why I got this USB scope... the software does the RMS surface calculations... I don't know how you can calculate that :P
(In fact the generator should feed either a tap on L1 or another coupling coil as a matching means between 50 Ohms and the resonant impedance, this would be the first to achive for Luc also and the second goal is to match the lamp's impedance to the resonant circuit with L2 number of turns at a fixed coupling.)
Hello Duff
This may or may not apply to your coils but a Tesla Coil (TC) is usually made up of two air coils that have the same resonant frequency. The voltage increase/decrease is not based on the turns ratio but is based on a ratio of the inductance's of the two coils. See http://www.scribd.com/doc/3876818/Denicolai-Tesla-Transformer-for-Experimentation-and-Research-96pp2001 (http://www.scribd.com/doc/3876818/Denicolai-Tesla-Transformer-for-Experimentation-and-Research-96pp2001) for more info.
:)
I'm wondering if the load impedance is being reflected back into the primary.
Luc,
I could be wrong but I'll bet your scope does not know the difference between a square wave vs sine.
I'd think that the rms value is only valid for sine waves....
You might want to check your manual or with the mfg. on that one.
-Duff
I am also puzzled by the half wave rectifier's performance here, maybe the oscilloscope waveform across your L2 would reveal something but I would expect a normal sinusoidal 305 kHz waveform with symmetrical zero crossings...
You surely know this method when the series inserted resistance equals the unknown input impedance (at resonance of course) then the input voltage from the SG gets halved across the unknown, (a normal voltage divison happens).
I did look at the waveform across the secondary and its more like a square wave with rounded corners with jagged sides. Yesterday I looked at the output of the FWB and is seemed ok.Would you recall that you used a square wave input in this case? It is odd you found waveform like that, though the loaded Q of L1C1 might justifies this? It would be also good you could check the 3dB bandwidth in your latest circuit when you have time for that.
Would you mind updating your schematics with the new component values because at the moment I am puzzled a little by your new symbols like RL Cseries etc. ? (I mean the circuit you measured Z=139 Ohm real input impedance.)
EDIT: Would you recall that you used a square wave input in this case? It is odd you found waveform like that, though the loaded Q of L1C1 might justifies this? It would be also good you could check the 3dB bandwidth in your latest circuit when you have time for that.
Because basically the SG output of 50 Ohm is loaded by a series resonant circuit that is further loaded by the transformed bulb or your transformed 66.6 Ohm resistance, the big mismatch seems to come from the 50 Ohm that is in series with the coil: if you consider the loaded Q like (2pi*f*L1)/(R_L1+R1+50) then you get Q=1056.43/59.1=17.8 and this is loaded further by the transformed load of 66.6 to your value of 2.5, agree?
@gotoluc and all
Don't worry about threads. They are always here, ready to re-open anytime it is needed. No one signed a contract to release as per a set schedule so cut yourselves some slack guys. You have done some great work here and have prepared a base for others. Around here, we really can't ask for more. So thanks. Let's see what happens with @Groundloops circuit.
I myself am working on the FTPU right now, resonance and all. Just learning about the possibilities of how to drive it thanks to all the learning about resonance techniques is part and parcel. lol
But guys, here is an angle on pulsing your coils to resonance. Try to take the audio output of your computer sound card, put it through a small mixer or amp and connect it to your coils as left, right and common. I use a small mixer and take the headphones output via the available jack. Then use a frequency generator like the one I put here......
http://purco.qc.ca/ftp/Learning%20Electronics/software/
click on the following file to download it FrequencyGenerator.zip
It is only one file so you can just put it on your desktop, or anywhere else.
Lot's of fun. Crazy scope shots and you will understand about phasing and using two frequencies. You can open more then one windows and have more frequencies if you need it. .
Keep on keeping on.
I think the reason I didn't continue testing with the Avramenko plug is that the secondary was showing better results as far as handling a load (10 Ohms resistor) then the Avramenko plug was. So I just continued testing with that. This does not mean that the Avramenko plug is not worth researching, it is just the direction I took at that time.
Simple coils of wire are dispersive.
Dispersive in an electrical context, where a dispersion region is a frequency range over which permeability or permittivity is changing.
The term 'refractive index' is not much used in electrical engineering; but many will be familiar with 'velocity factor', which is its reciprocal.
This begs the question; "what has velocity got to do with inductance?" to which the answer is; "rather a lot". The traditional understanding of coils depends on the idea that they are effectively electromagnets, and that they have reactance because energy is stored in the surrounding magnetic field.
This picture is mostly wrong, even though it suffices at low frequencies. If we may take the liberty of using the word 'light' to mean electromagnetic radiation of any frequency; what a coil really does is to modify the refractive index of space in its vicinity in such a way as to bend light and force it to follow the electrical conductor.
All electrical circuits do that of course, but in inductors, the path is deliberately made long. Hence a coil is a waveguide or transmission line, which stores energy by trapping and detaining 'light' which would otherwise have made a much shorter journey.
The inclusion of self-capacitance into the lumped-component model gives rise to the prediction that a coil will still exhibit parallel resonance in the absence of an external circuit. This is indeed correct; except that, unless the coil is extremely long and thin, the actual self-resonance frequency (SRF) is considerably greater than predicted. This failure of the lumped component theory is mainly due to the onset of another dispersion-related effect; this time in which the apparent inductance declines (presuming that we adopt the view that the self-capacitance is constant) in such a manner that the SRF is pulled to the frequency at which the wire in the coil is very nearly one half-wavelength long.
This time, there is no reprieve for the lumped element theory. The SRF occurs at the electrical half-wavelength point because that is the frequency at which a wave, trapped in the coil by reflection from the impedance discontinuities which occur at the terminals, arrives back at its starting point in phase with itself.
The pulling effect can be understood by considering the overall field pattern as the superposition (combination) of two waves, one traveling along the coil axis and the other following the helix.
At low frequencies, the axial wave dominates and the helical wave is forced to keep up. This causes the phase velocity (i.e., the apparent velocity) of the helical wave to be several times the speed of light.
As the frequency increases, the helical velocity falls steadily as propagation along the helix becomes increasingly important, but the change is smooth and corresponds to an impedance characteristic consistent with the lumped component model.
As the SRF is approached however, the scattering cross-section of the coil suddenly increases and the axial wave is overwhelmed. Hence the impedance characteristic deviates as the coil 'locks-on' to the half-wave resonance.
@gotoluc
On the bridge, the wind is probably coming from more then one direction and it is the coupled effect. If one is in resonance to the bridge structure and another is slightly off.
This is one reason why I suggested you try the audio scheme. You can see it on the scope by using only one frequency to reach resonance, then use the second frequency at the first frequency less 1 hz and put the phase off by at least 6.84 degrees, then watch your scope. This would also provide you a secondary method of pulsing to "learn even more" under the same coil conditions which you use the regular FG.
You can even use the two audio signals to run two mosfets and use the phasing and frequency to pulse dc in soooooo many ways. lol
The way I see it like with one frequency you take up space in mass and with the second frequency you create movement inside the mass depending on how they compliment each other..
@gotoluc
Good one to at least try the technique and know about it. You can do the same thing but drive two mosfets.
For your current triple coil, I would try outer and center as left and right since those fields are concentrating towards the center, I would put the collector as the inner coil. Try a slightly lower frequency and a little less volume for the center since it is closer to the inner coil.
Driving the outer coil at a little higher frequency and higher volume will give it about the same timing and strength exerted on the inner coil. You want both fields to exert an almost equal but out of phase influence on the inner coil. But this will ultimately be relative to the actual coils, winds, etc.
There are so many ways of using this method. I know it is limited to 20khz but having two or more frequencies to play with kind of makes up for this limitation.
But in the end, I really just wanted you to know and experience this technique should you need it in the future when you have a special coil in hand and have done all your regular pulsing schemes, this just adds to your arsenal.
wattsup
The way I see it like with one frequency you take up space in mass and with the second frequency you create movement inside the mass depending on how they compliment each other..
Bingo, Dude!
That is exactly why I mentioned the Pancake coil reversal. To show the explanation.
There were 2 swedish high school students that built a conical for a science fair and achieved COP = 11.
Keely: (King of Resonance). This person is a great reference for anyone who believes resonance or mixed frequencies have no power. Did you know that dentists remove plaque with 25khz transmitters?
The two charge models I have seen are : charge a cap up fast and discharge it slow or charge it slow and discharge it fast.
--giantkiller.
Bingo, Dude!
That is exactly why I mentioned the Pancake coil reversal. To show the explanation.
There were 2 swedish high school students that built a conical for a science fair and achieved COP = 11.
Keely: (King of Resonance). This person is a great reference for anyone who believes resonance or mixed frequencies have no power. Did you know that dentists remove plaque with 25khz transmitters?
The two charge models I have seen are : charge a cap up fast and discharge it slow or charge it slow and discharge it fast.
--giantkiller.
Hey gotoluc. I see as time goes on out of some 10 posts per day we dropped to 1 per month...
I just looked at your scope screen. I wonder. What if you would make it as a true LRC so you should achieve a voltage buildup 5x-10x (20x+ under ideal) at least of your initial voltage source if tuned properly and then try to drain that resonnant voltage buildup out with your secondary. I pretty sure you tought about this. Please someone tell me what do you think. All I have is Lawton PWM with square waves scope and mostly everything else you might need but still need sine wave gen.
Hi Luc:
I have been playing in this arena a bit too lately. I have been reading on the effects
of power factor correction gone bad. That basically meaning what occurs when you
get it wrong by adding caps so it hits a harmonic res with a load. As this happens, you
will see over voltage/ over current on the main lines.
So what would happen if you purposely load it to make that happen? We all now know
that when you hit res, the input current drops and the circulating current rises. So have
a coil and caps that hit res points 3,5,7 and a way to regulate it to a safe level. One coil
to loop back on its self, say the 7th harmonic and then tap off with the 3rd and 5th for
your output.
Grab a cup and sit back and scan through SM's musings and jot down all the references
that could relate to a tuned LC and it will shock you.
Well thats my nickles worth for the hour. See ya.
thaelin
Hey gotoluc. Check this interesting LC (I would think it might work as LC not sure about those diodes) pickup coil setup. Do you know the frequency of your secondary pickup coil standing waves the one that you aim for? You could tune your secondary as LC with those (I would use tunable) 2 caps. If it is LC..
Here it is: http://hibp.ecse.rpi.edu/~john/hi_power_xtal_set.gif
Hi Luc:
Hey , have been really busy with the rally up comming here. Just realized I hadn't posted
the power factor file. See below. Its a blast.!
thaelin
That is very interesting Luc...have you considered the addition of a secondary coil to the mix also ?
Regards...
Just bought LCR meter to measure inductance so I should join you in a week or so. Sorry for stupid question but if someone could explain in simple word what does resistor do in LRC. I know inductors have their ohm resistance besides inductive reactance. Do I need to balance this out with resistor somewhere in the circuit? Gotoluc I noticed you put 0.68 ohm resistor and 66.8 ohm for your secondary. Could someone please explain more about how to balance lcr out? Some exemple with exect number should give idea how resistors or balancing works. Tnx
Luc
Mags and frequency[by -Marco-]
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5540717206741162529
Chet
@Gotoluc
Can I drive this with 555 directly without a mosfet?
Thanks
Minde
Hi lads, my first post here, I read the first 5 pages of replies and didn't see my question, so here goes.
I'm just beginning to get into resonance with coils and was wondering, having seen this video - Coil Resonance Tutorial 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgAF8MxS7Rg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgAF8MxS7Rg) ... Once the right capacitor has been found for a particular coil, will that be enough by itself to ensure the most efficient circuit design, or would I need to include a frequency generator circuit in every Joule thief I make?
Very good videos Luc, if you keep making them, people will keep watching them.
The circuit is just a capacitor and coil in series connected to the output of a signal generator.Hi just found this article, I'm not sure this statement is true as such, my confusion is the video the guy Luc is it ? talks about a narrow pulse gives him the best results, but then he has the same feed going into a CD4013 'D-type this device divides by two because it just triggers on the one edge so you would end up with a EW 50/50 waveform, if you want to correct this, sling the 4013 in the bin or rewire it for CLK reset mode with steering diodes or just use a device like the IR2111, this will give you a full bridge drive to your other two IR 2103 chips or faster version, however you can only get what is available locally with this logic the same applies to the power that is used to harvest it ;). So not much chance of any real power here. but it could be useful for battery charging.
Luc
Hi just found this article, I'm not sure this statement is true as such, my confusion is the video the guy Luc is it ? talks about a narrow pulse gives him the best results, but then he has the same feed going into a CD4013 'D-type this device divides by two because it just triggers on the one edge so you would end up with a EW 50/50 waveform, if you want to correct this, sling the 4013 in the bin or rewire it for CLK reset mode with steering diodes or just use a device like the IR2111, this will give you a full bridge drive to your other two IR 2103 chips or faster version, however you can only get what is available locally with this logic the same applies to the power that is used to harvest it ;) . So not much chance of any real power here. but it could be useful for battery charging.
Hi Luc,
Your first video already dropped 'dr Stiffler'. Have you seen his latest videos? The newest thread?
Would be nice if you could join that thread, some of your vidoe's here are heavily related. (imho).