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Author Topic: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 242180 times)

Offline DrSimon

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #390 on: January 07, 2009, 09:39:42 PM »
Hi Dr. Stiffler,

thank you for taking the time to share this very valid and valuable information. As I said above I was not happy with my attempt to measure the coil efficiency, so I made a new video and I would ask for you to look at it to see if you agree with this way of calculating the performance output of each coil. I do believe the use of the 10 ohm resistor as load on each 30,000uf cap is accurate enough since that large cap size should be more than enough to smooth it to DC. After doing the video and seeing your post I attached the probes to one of the coil output cap and I attached the scope shot below. Looks fairly flat to me and I am also happy to report my meters are accurately displaying the volts the scope is displaying.

The only thing I can see where there may be a problem is the 10 ohm input resistor. The frequency at this time is 300Khz, do you think if I pickup a accurate carbon resistor we could measure to a satisfactory result?

Link to new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylnH1-UGITE

Thank you for sharing

Luc

@gotoluc

Please let me answer for Dr. Stiffler as he has left for a couple of days yet we have both been watching this.

Dr. Stiffler told me he had advised you to place a resistor of low value - I think < 10 ohms in the ground lead of your signal generator that is between the generator and all of your circuit. This resistor need to be non or minimally reactive and a preferred type would be a solid carbon. A film resistor may be fine but that would depend on how it was trimmed (i.e. spiral or end).

What we would like to see is what is going (returning) back to the generator and this resistor will do that provided it is minimally reactive (as stated above). The only problem that we can see is that your scope seems to have limited integration functionality but may be able to handle the complex waveform you will see across this resistor. By placing the resistor in the ground return circuit you will remove the problem of having to have a differential probe as you would need if this resistor were in the output lead of the generator as it would be above the reference ground on both sides.

Also you should try and terminate the generator in its characteristic impedance as you were advised in this thread. Normally unless this gen was modified it should be 50 ohms. If your coils were a low impedance to the output you could place a 50 ohm resistor in series with the output lead but it looks like your coils are above 50 ohms so you could place a 50 ohms across the output and get close. What you really would see at the gen would be the coils in parallel with the 50 ohm load. If the coils were high then minimal effect on overall loading.

You have a complex configuration because you have the coils close to each other and there is an interaction and this must be taken into account.

Simon

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #390 on: January 07, 2009, 09:39:42 PM »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #391 on: January 07, 2009, 10:43:06 PM »
@everyone,

can someone please explain to me how to correctly measure and calculate my signal generator output ???... please keep in mind that I have no electronic knowledge  so using words or letters that are related to this feild means nothing to me.

Please just explain it in plain English... like example: put scope prob A across SG and probe B across input resistor, then take RMS voltage reading of probe A and multiply by probe B RMS voltage, then divide by resistor value and this amount would be your watts in.

Can someone please do this favor for me.

Thank you for your time.

Luc

Offline watercellguy

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #392 on: January 07, 2009, 10:56:54 PM »
I would open the signal Generator, and would add connections so I could measure how many AMP and Volts is the signal Generator using.

I would set it so I could measure AMPS on the DC side between the rectifier and Capacitor.

Watercellguy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #392 on: January 07, 2009, 10:56:54 PM »
Sponsored links:




turbo

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #393 on: January 07, 2009, 11:03:13 PM »
Help is on the way  :)

Offline Antimon

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #394 on: January 07, 2009, 11:04:41 PM »
You need to put the current in a voltage signal (with a shunt). Put it on channel 2. On channel 1 measure the voltage. If its a resistive load then multiply the values. If its a reactive load then you have to consider the cos phi, the power factor. Its then P=U*I*cos phi.

If you do that, you have to use the same ground point, then you have to invert channel 2 at your scope to measure the right signal.

If you want to know the power at a resistor, just measure the voltage across it and P=U²/R.

U ... Voltage
I ... Current
P ... Power

I hope i could help.

A.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #394 on: January 07, 2009, 11:04:41 PM »
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Offline DrSimon

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #395 on: January 08, 2009, 12:04:33 AM »
@gotoluc

It is very simple if you have a (low value carbon resistor of less than 10% of the output impedance of the generator.

Place your scope (A) at the generator output terminals and measure the rms.

Across a 1 ohm resistor in the ground return of the generator use (B) and obtain the rms.

Use rms(R)/Rohms = Igen in a carbon resistor the voltage and current are always in phase (low freq)

Now that you have Igen you can use rmsOut X Igen to get the gen output.

Lets say you have 0.66V(rms) on the 1ohm - so Igen = 0.66/1 or = 0.66

Now if you gen output is 10vrms - 10 x 0.66 = 6.6

Simon

BTW you do not want to touch your gen as in an earlier post - all that will do is damage your gen and measure the eff of the gen and nothing to do with the output terminals.

Offline watercellguy

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #396 on: January 08, 2009, 12:32:39 AM »
To trully account for OU you need to measure how much power the circuit that generates the signal is using.

that is why I said you need to measure how much power the signal generator is using, not just how much power the LC circuit uses.

maybe that is why I was not able to measure any OU using this resonance methode, I am accounting for the power used by my electronic circuit also.

watercellguy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #396 on: January 08, 2009, 12:32:39 AM »
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Offline CRANKYpants

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #397 on: January 08, 2009, 01:48:11 AM »
@everyone,

can someone please explain to me how to correctly measure and calculate my signal generator output ???... please keep in mind that I have no electronic knowledge  so using words or letters that are related to this feild means nothing to me.

Please just explain it in plain English... like example: put scope prob A across SG and probe B across input resistor, then take RMS voltage reading of probe A and multiply by probe B RMS voltage, then divide by resistor value and this amount would be your watts in.

Can someone please do this favor for me.

Thank you for your time.

Luc

Sai Ram Luc,

If you bring it to the lab I can show you how to do it.

Cheers
Thane

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #398 on: January 08, 2009, 02:24:30 AM »
Sai Ram Luc,

If you bring it to the lab I can show you how to do it.

Cheers
Thane

Sai Ram Thane,

this is the best way to do it ;D... thanks for the offer ;)... once I see it done I'll know how to do it after.

I don't know if it will be tomorrow though since I got to dig the car out of the snow and I have to drive to Ogdensburg, N.Y., USA to pickup the six 12vdc lead acid batteries and magnet wire I ordered on eBay to do the closed loop test and in the evening a meeting plus at 11:30pm my daughter is flying in from Calgary for a one week visit after being away over 2 years. I'm saying this so you and others know I may not be at this full time for several days.

After writing all this I'm thinking ::)... maybe it's easier to just do the closed loop test setup that Groundloop proposed since tomorrow I'll have all the parts to do this ;D

I'll let you know later what I decide :P

Thanks for your great offer ;)

Luc

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #398 on: January 08, 2009, 02:24:30 AM »
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Offline minde4000

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #399 on: January 08, 2009, 02:30:05 AM »
Closed loop ... NICE!  Buckle up ladies and gentelman. The biggest has yet to come. GJ

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #400 on: January 08, 2009, 02:44:40 AM »
Hey that's right both of you are in Ottawa. My brother Archie lives in Ottawa near Bank and Fifth. Maybe I should zip by some weekend.

Thane, I saw your gigantic thread (388 pages - shit) , read the last 10 pages but did not catch much of what you are doing with all that commotion going on. Sounds like your motor is doing OU or not I don't know but you do have a nice looking set-up. Actually Archie knows a lot of people in Ottawa and some at the National Research Council and maybe they could be convinced to take a look at your machine. Hmmmm.

A little more then two years ago I had organized a demo at my home of a device made by this french guy in Quebec City that I also had invested in (my stake was minimal compared to some other guys). I had also invited and managed to convince after long discussions, a professor from McGill University Engineering Dept. who is a specialist in Energy Conversions. Maybe I can convince him to test your unit at McGill. Actually I would have to be convinced first. I even had some investors present notably one from Ontario, a major Gear Retailer. Needless to say our demo did not pan out well and the guy in Quebec was sent back to the drawing board. Yes, I signed an NCND at that time but know better today. All open source. I remember so well, while we were waiting for the batteries to charge up again for our second trial, we were sitting outside and the professor said "you know I have been teaching EE for the last 25 years and if what you are claiming is true, I will have to throw all of that in the garbage, so before I put my name on anything, because you will there after be famous and so will I (meaning the professor), I must make more then absolutely sure there is no mistake and to do this, we will need three months of daily measurements. We all laughed so hard.

Well its been long enough since this thing was tested so I will put up the only photo ever taken of it. Sorry for the quality. I had forgot my macro feature was on and the inventor was really touchy about taking any pictures but I told him to realize we needed at least one picture for posterity. Ya ya. It's a drive motor using a gear system specially made to run two alternators. Wound up being like 92% efficient.

Oh yeh, last might I tested the alternator theory. Forget it. There is simply too much iron in the thing to get any type of meaningful resonance. It felt like I was trying to revive a dead corpse. Clear.

The last post from @armagdn03 gave me a great idea for a new motor generator. Hmmmm. Should I or should I not work on it. I will do some rough drawings and post it somewhere here and see if guys think it would work. Funny, it would be something like Thane's but all in one motor/generator with no waste at all.

Anyways, have a good one.
(Sorry for off topic.)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #400 on: January 08, 2009, 02:44:40 AM »
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Offline Cap-Z-ro

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #401 on: January 08, 2009, 02:50:26 AM »

Maybe I'm being a little paranoid Luc...but I have to tell you I bristled when you talked about closing the loop and then announced your travel plans.

Regards...


Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #402 on: January 08, 2009, 03:16:58 AM »
Hey that's right both of you are in Ottawa. My brother Archie lives in Ottawa near Bank and Fifth. Maybe I should zip by some weekend.

Thane, I saw your gigantic thread (388 pages - shit) , read the last 10 pages but did not catch much of what you are doing with all that commotion going on. Sounds like your motor is doing OU or not I don't know but you do have a nice looking set-up. Actually Archie knows a lot of people in Ottawa and some at the National Research Council and maybe they could be convinced to take a look at your machine. Hmmmm.

A little more then two years ago I had organized a demo at my home of a device made by this french guy in Quebec City that I also had invested in (my stake was minimal compared to some other guys). I had also invited and managed to convince after long discussions, a professor from McGill University Engineering Dept. who is a specialist in Energy Conversions. Maybe I can convince him to test your unit at McGill. Actually I would have to be convinced first. I even had some investors present notably one from Ontario, a major Gear Retailer. Needless to say our demo did not pan out well and the guy in Quebec was sent back to the drawing board. Yes, I signed an NCND at that time but know better today. All open source. I remember so well, while we were waiting for the batteries to charge up again for our second trial, we were sitting outside and the professor said "you know I have been teaching EE for the last 25 years and if what you are claiming is true, I will have to throw all of that in the garbage, so before I put my name on anything, because you will there after be famous and so will I (meaning the professor), I must make more then absolutely sure there is no mistake and to do this, we will need three months of daily measurements. We all laughed so hard.

Well its been long enough since this thing was tested so I will put up the only photo ever taken of it. Sorry for the quality. I had forgot my macro feature was on and the inventor was really touchy about taking any pictures but I told him to realize we needed at least one picture for posterity. Ya ya. It's a drive motor using a gear system specially made to run two alternators. Wound up being like 92% efficient.

Oh yeh, last might I tested the alternator theory. Forget it. There is simply too much iron in the thing to get any type of meaningful resonance. It felt like I was trying to revive a dead corpse. Clear.

The last post from @armagdn03 gave me a great idea for a new motor generator. Hmmmm. Should I or should I not work on it. I will do some rough drawings and post it somewhere here and see if guys think it would work. Funny, it would be something like Thane's but all in one motor/generator with no waste at all.

Anyways, have a good one.
(Sorry for off topic.)

Good post wattsup ;D... yep, both of us in Ottawa... and the strange part is we met some 10 years ago and lost touch for over 7 years and reconnected though this site on Thane's topic. I remember my post..."Hey I know this guy"

Thanks for teling us one of your stories :)... it's always funnier after time has gone by when we look at what we have done.

I've always liked the way you write, just makes me smile ;D... I hope to meet you one day soon!  just let me know next time you come to Ottawa.

Thanks for sharing this experience with us.

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #403 on: January 08, 2009, 03:37:41 AM »
Maybe I'm being a little paranoid Luc...but I have to tell you I bristled when you talked about closing the loop and then announced your travel plans.

Regards...

Hi Cap-Z-ro,

thanks for expressing your concern :)... no need to fear as I have faith that when one has no personal or hidden agenda the path will have no obstacles.

One can also invoke the mighty force of removing obstacles by chanting this Holy Mantra: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_h2rFVPCSPE  this aspect of God is depicted by an Elephant head and maybe why in our World the Elephant has no obstacles as he journeys though the jungle.

Peace and Love to all.

Luc

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #404 on: January 08, 2009, 06:18:13 AM »
@gotoluc

I get my wire at Abra Electronics in Montreal.
135$ for 10lbs of 30awg mag wire. They have the other awgs too.
http://www.abra-electronics.com/

This may be useful for you on how to measure.
http://www.thekeeser.com/Electronics%20info/measure_an_unknown_inductor.htm


 

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