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Author Topic: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 238498 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #360 on: January 06, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »
Sort of like this?
(The Tesla powerplant in the picture is drawing about 35 VA from the wall. It's shown lighting a CF bulb, sans power supply, to full brilliance with no wires. It will light as many as you can pack into the space near the bulb, for the same current draw from the mains. There is the standard 1/rsquared falloff with distance, but I believe that can be overcome.)

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #360 on: January 06, 2009, 04:41:43 PM »

Offline sparks

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #361 on: January 06, 2009, 04:53:56 PM »
   @Tinsel

        That's a great picture.   Now we need to find a way to store the voltage and get her back to the input so you can pull the plug.  Some folks just need that I guess.

Offline Grumpy

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #362 on: January 06, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »
Try a coil of zipcord - 8 to 10 feet - with one wire to each end of the bulb to increase the distance.  Leave the other end of the cord open - like a spiral capacitor.

Just thought of it, have not tried it yet.

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #362 on: January 06, 2009, 04:56:40 PM »
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Offline duff

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #363 on: January 06, 2009, 05:31:06 PM »

I understood this before UNTIL you showed that different cap values actually
increased or decreased the amount of current draw from the FG.  I just thought
that when you put a different value cap in, and readjust the FG to the new
resonant frequency of the coil, that was it.  Can someone explain why the
dirrent value caps, even though they were all tuned to resonance, gave
different current draw from the FG.

@clone447

With reference to this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6cO40f8Qgk

I'll try to give you a basic explanation.

When the 47uF cap was inserted in parallel with the inductor it brought the circuit to peak resonance. The other capacitors that were tried prior to the 47pF did not achieve peak resonance - in other words the circuit was still slightly capacitive (XC > XL).

As you are aware, resonance is achieved when XC = XL so all capacitors tried up to the 47pf cap left the circuit slightly capacitive. When Luc placed the 68pf cap in the circuit, the light closest to the signal generator got slightly brighter so the circuit probably went slightly inductive (XL > XC).


A parallel resonant circuit will look like a very high resistive load. In this circuit the load looked to be around 3.6 giga ohms so the current that the signal generator would see would be:

I = E / R
I  = 10 / 3.6G = 2.78nA

As you can see, 2.78 nano amperes would not be enought to light the light
closest to the signal generator, however the light that is in the parallel
tank circuit is experiencing a highter circulating current.

You have to look at the current in each branch of the circuit.


Below are the calculations for the load impedance. I've ignored the two lights in the circuit.



Offline sparks

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #364 on: January 06, 2009, 06:11:43 PM »
Resonance is just a means to an end as far as Mr. Tesla was concerned.  Of course we can get a kid swinging alot faster on a swing with proper input of kinetic energy.  But the Gain of the system is in the heigth of the child over the ground.  The resonant circuit is just a means to pump up the voltage until this voltage becomes relavent to the rest of the whole damn electrical distribution of the Universe.  The secondary or coil of high selfinductance will cause a standing wave.
This is a wave that goes just so far and then returns upon itself in phase.  The amplitude of the wave or intensity is increased with each input pulse.  Energy now being stored in the resounding system.  What is not so apparent is that the crests and troughs of the wave are becoming relavent not only to each other but to the rest of the electrical field about the standing wave.  THERE WILL BE A FLOW OF ENERGY INTO THE SYSTEM IN EXCESS OF THAT NEEDED TO MAINTAIN THE STANDING WAVE due to it's relativity to the electrical polarization of the field about the standing wave.  If the node and antinode of the standing wave fall upon large conducting fields we draw on their relative voltage and our system starts to appear as a short circuit for these large capacitor plates.

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #364 on: January 06, 2009, 06:11:43 PM »
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Offline duff

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #365 on: January 06, 2009, 06:59:09 PM »

@gotoluc,

I wanted to give you some real numbers related to a Bifilar Flat Spiral using various connection schemes so that you can see how the inductance is influenced.

Measurements of inductance were taken with an Marconi LCR Bridge.

Flat Spiral Dimensions
Inner Diameter: 0.62"
Outer Diameter: 6.14"
Total Wire Length (calculated): 54'
Turns: 59
Wire Gague: #24 AWG
Capacitance (Outer to Inner winding):0.2.9nF @ 1KHz

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #366 on: January 06, 2009, 08:22:45 PM »
@duff

Really good work. Since we know all coils also have some capacitance, I would have really liked to know the capacitance of each set-up especially the bottom left which is the bifilar arrangement.

@sparks

The problem with resonance is that it changes when loads are applied. But if the resonant components include a coil that can exude a magnetic field outwards (or inwards but with a good center open diameter), then by arranging pick-up coils around the inside or outside of that component, you should be able to catch that energy while not creating any further adverse influences on the resonant conditions. This is where the power conversion can occur as isolated. Hmmmm. I am talking to myself and just realized I can test this very easily with one of my alternators which I had modified the voltage regulator circuit to give direct access to the positive rotor brush. OK back to work. lol

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #366 on: January 06, 2009, 08:22:45 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #367 on: January 06, 2009, 09:11:04 PM »
      @Wattsup


    The resonance is only used to pump up the standingwave.  The electric field between the nodes and antinodes of the wave will setup oppositely polarized electric fields about them.  There will be some losses as this polarization will result in transverse waves due to the localized current between node and antinode.   The best mode is to do exactly what tesla did and set up a receiver which then can resonate with the power of the transmitter without any screwing around with the exciter sw.  I would imagine any number of these receiver units could be placed around the core and still feed off the energy in bound and outbound to the exciter sw.   I wouldn't put em in a ring and series connect them cause that's a bit too risky.

Offline Thaelin

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #368 on: January 06, 2009, 09:59:21 PM »
@  Duff:
   In message 364 you did the calculations on the circuit. By what you have
done, is there a way you can derive the freq on the LC side as well. I guess
this would fall into the formula for Fr.
   The reason for this is in a sim I watched, the LC side of the circuit was
moving much faster than the input frequency was. The input was calculated
to be the resonant one for the cap/coil pair. Can you see where I am going
with this?

For high Q, you want a low value of L and a higher value of C.

thaelin

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #368 on: January 06, 2009, 09:59:21 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #369 on: January 06, 2009, 10:18:36 PM »
@sparks

Hmmmm. Something like the Hubbard coil could be a central resonator with exterior coils tuned to the same resonance. Yep. That would be a good angle. Sorry for the off topic guys.

Offline giantkiller

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #370 on: January 06, 2009, 10:32:06 PM »
Resonance is just a means to an end as far as Mr. Tesla was concerned.  Of course we can get a kid swinging alot faster on a swing with proper input of kinetic energy.  But the Gain of the system is in the heigth of the child over the ground.  The resonant circuit is just a means to pump up the voltage until this voltage becomes relavent to the rest of the whole damn electrical distribution of the Universe.  The secondary or coil of high selfinductance will cause a standing wave.
This is a wave that goes just so far and then returns upon itself in phase.  The amplitude of the wave or intensity is increased with each input pulse.  Energy now being stored in the resounding system.  What is not so apparent is that the crests and troughs of the wave are becoming relavent not only to each other but to the rest of the electrical field about the standing wave.  THERE WILL BE A FLOW OF ENERGY INTO THE SYSTEM IN EXCESS OF THAT NEEDED TO MAINTAIN THE STANDING WAVE due to it's relativity to the electrical polarization of the field about the standing wave.  If the node and antinode of the standing wave fall upon large conducting fields we draw on their relative voltage and our system starts to appear as a short circuit for these large capacitor plates.

Words that are more valuable than anything else in the Universe.
 8)
--giantkiller

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #370 on: January 06, 2009, 10:32:06 PM »
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Offline duff

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #371 on: January 06, 2009, 10:45:33 PM »
@duff

Really good work. Since we know all coils also have some capacitance, I would have really liked to know the capacitance of each set-up especially the bottom left which is the bifilar arrangement.


@wattsup

If the external capacitance generally is large, any increase in inductor distributed capacitance will have very little effect on the system.

However, I think I know why your asking about the distributed capacitance and it not related the the above statement...

The total distributed capacitance cannot be measured directly.

The standard method is to measure the Self-Resonant Frequency (SRF) of a transformer (or inductor) and calculate the total distributed capacitance.
(see the equation below)

The generally accepted method of measuring the SRF is to find the maximum impedance point of the device. The impedance of a parallel resonant circuit reaches a maximum at the resonant frequency. By measuring the "line" current using the voltage across a series element the maximum impedance point can be determined. See the schematic below.

The definition of SRF is the frequency at which the distributed capacitance resonances with the self inductance and the reactive components cancel. The maximum impedance point and the SRF can be quite different.

There can be many error that can creep in when trying to measure distributed capacitance. I may have a go at it on the little flat spiral I wound but this is something you probably need to do using your own spiral.

Offline duff

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #372 on: January 06, 2009, 11:14:10 PM »
@  Duff:
   In message 364 you did the calculations on the circuit. By what you have
done, is there a way you can derive the freq on the LC side as well. I guess
this would fall into the formula for Fr.

Yes - Fr = 1/(2pi sqrt(LC) )

Quote
   The reason for this is in a sim I watched, the LC side of the circuit was
moving much faster than the input frequency was. The input was calculated
to be the resonant one for the cap/coil pair. Can you see where I am going
with this?

Sorry - I'm not following...

Quote
For high Q, you want a low value of L and a higher value of C.

Q is a figure of quality, in terms of reactance compared with resistance. The Q of a coil is XL/rs, where rs is the resistance in series with the XL.

From Patent: 685,012 - Means For Increasing The Intensity Of Electrical Oscillations
Quote
Very often, however, the conditions may be such that the gain sought is not realized directly by diminishing the resistance of the circuit. In such cases the skilled expert who applies the invention will turn to advantage the reduction of resistance by using a correspondingly longer conductor, thus securing a much greater self-induction, and under all circumstances he will determine the dimensions of the circuit, so as to get the greatest value of the ratio of its inductance to its resistance, which determines the intensity of the free oscillations.


« Last Edit: January 06, 2009, 11:57:57 PM by duff »

Offline amigo

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #373 on: January 07, 2009, 04:09:40 AM »
@Grumpy,

Thanks for those answers, that's what I'm talking about, it provides much food for thought! Sadly not many people engage because the concepts appear to be beyond them at the moment. That's why everyone needs to get educated on the theory first and foremost, with a solid understanding of principles and concepts. :)

@gotoluc

...which brings me up to what you wrote earlier about wanting to see a working circuit/product. IMHO we should not be spending so much time experimenting and trying to stumble upon something that works, a discovery by accident.

There should be a logical and sensible path by which we all *understand* why are things the way they are, and then applying that understanding we could create working circuits with little or no experimental effort. The experimentation has already been done for us in the past 200 years. The theory has already been laid out as well.

We need to start (re)learning (and unlearning of the dogma of later part of 20th century) and understanding what those giants of science in the past really meant and did... :)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #374 on: January 07, 2009, 05:09:42 AM »
Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a new video and would like everyone who can check to see if my way of calculating the power is correct.

Please post your comments :)

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8zch1De-Q

Thanks for your time.

Luc

 

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