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Author Topic: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 235357 times)

Offline armagdn03

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #375 on: January 07, 2009, 05:19:45 AM »
@Grumpy,

There should be a logical and sensible path by which we all *understand* why are things the way they are, and then applying that understanding we could create working circuits with little or no experimental effort. The experimentation has already been done for us in the past 200 years. The theory has already been laid out as well.

We need to start (re)learning (and unlearning of the dogma of later part of 20th century) and understanding what those giants of science in the past really meant and did... :)

Thats exactly what I have been trying to lead people into! If you want a working model check out my latest video, and start thinking about why input goes down, as output goes up.

Also, I seem to be running low on karma..... :D

@gotoluc
I believe if you want to find your max power output  for your signal generator you would want to match your load to your source impedance per the maximum power transfer therum, most sig gens are 50 ohms.


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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #375 on: January 07, 2009, 05:19:45 AM »

Offline najman100

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #376 on: January 07, 2009, 05:52:00 AM »
Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a new video and would like everyone who can check to see if my way of calculating the power is correct.

Please post your comments :)

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8zch1De-Q

Thanks for your time.

Luc

Hello LUC
i just finished watching your vid it is interesting can you make a schematic drawing off all the set up ?

Thank You
Najman

Offline AbbaRue

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #377 on: January 07, 2009, 09:07:48 AM »
@gotoluc
I hope I'm wrong here but.
When you connected the 10 ohm load across the signal generator you got 0.256 Watts.
To do the comparison your coils would have to have a total resistance of 10 ohms as well.
Your signal generator will put out more wattage if connected to a lower resistance.
Just like your house wiring, the lower the resistance of the load the more power is drawn.
What wattage do you get across the signal generator output while it's connected to the coils?

Try replacing the 1 ohm resistor going to the board with the 10 ohm resistor
If you get more then 0.256 watts from the capacitor measurements then you must have more output then input.
Because you would have the 10 ohm resistor in series with the coils, the 10 ohm resistor would act as a current limiter.
And as such it would be impossible to have less then a 10 ohm load across your signal generator then.

The most important point to keep in mind here is lower resistance means higher current and thus higher wattage.
Higher resistance means lower current and thus lower wattage.

You replaced the 10 ohm resistor with the 3 coil setup which most likely has a much lower resistance then 10 ohms.
Even with the 1 ohm resistor in series.  But use a 10 ohm instead of the 1 ohm and then you will know for sure.

Another way to put it: If you connect three 10 ohm resistors in parallel you get 3.33 ohms.
1.6 x 1.6 = 2.56 / 3.33 = 0.776 Watts.  This is what your 3 coils circuit is drawing from the signal generator.
 0.776 - 0.762 = 0.014          So your circuit is putting out 0.014 watts less then what you are putting in.



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #377 on: January 07, 2009, 09:07:48 AM »
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Offline duff

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #378 on: January 07, 2009, 03:34:53 PM »

Luc,

As you initially stated, the voltage across the 10 ohm resistor in parallel with your signal generator show 1.59Vrms.

P=V2/R = 1.592/10 = 252.82 mW


If I understand how you have this wired, you have three 10 ohm resistors in
series with the 30,000uF cap??? Please provide a schematic so were clear on what
your doing.

So you have three series resistors: 3 x 10 = 30 ohms  across a voltage of 2.76V.
P = V2/RTotal
P = 2.762/30 = 253mW

This is very close to unity if I understand how the components are connected. You should probably  measure the actual values of the components to get a better idea of where you are.


At the end of the video you show 200mV  across a 1 ohm resistor in
series with your input.

So your circuit is drawing:

I=E/R = 0.2/1 = 200mA

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #379 on: January 07, 2009, 04:58:48 PM »
Hi AbbaRue and duff,

thanks for your replies and suggestions. I'm redoing my test 12 video and will have it up in a few hours.

What I'm trying to do is find a baseline way of testing my coils from now on and I was getting confused because of my lack of electronics measuring experience.

The new video will have a 10 Ohm resistor in series on the SG feed to the coils with the scope probes across it to measure the RMS so we can calculate the power in. Also, this time I will keep each coil output separate to its own 30,000uf cap with 10 Ohm load across it and each will have its own volt meter.

I hope this way will be easier to calculate total in and total out.

Thanks for you help ;)

Luc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #379 on: January 07, 2009, 04:58:48 PM »
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Offline DrStiffler

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #380 on: January 07, 2009, 05:01:05 PM »
@Luc

You have some people giving some good solid information and methods (math) to figure out and present what you have. I would like to add a point that none engineers sometimes don't even think of and that is a resistor is not a resistor. Unless you use carbon resistors at fairly low frequencies you have to include their other characteristics in the computations. These power resistors very all over the place on inductance. I have for example included a picture of a 10ohm 25W resistor being measured at close to 750kHz.

This fact may be of interest to some and should be to all that include them in RF circuits.

 

Offline watercellguy

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #381 on: January 07, 2009, 05:29:57 PM »
Hi everyone,

I just uploaded a new video and would like everyone who can check to see if my way of calculating the power is correct.

Please post your comments :)

Link to video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-P8zch1De-Q

Thanks for your time.

Luc

Luc,

1st I want to say great videos you have been doing.

Now about the calculations, from personal experiency, measuring power in VS power out using a resistor in series with the input circuit and a resistor in parallel with the output circuit will allways misslead you to OU.

I attached a snapshot that shows what I'm talking about. The top scope graph shows the voltage accross the output resistor and the bottom graph shows the voltage accross the input resistor, it clearly shows that this method of comparing power in VS power out is incorrect.


Now I'm not an EE, but I think the reason for this, it is because measuring it like this does not take in consideration for the inductor/capacitor reactance and in this case it is about 316 ohms for the inductor and 316 for the capacitor at 50.3 Hz. So I'm thinking if we use resistors that match the reactance resistance, then we could get acurate readings.

I also have been testing resonance circuits and have not yet verified OU.

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 06:04:12 PM by watercellguy »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #381 on: January 07, 2009, 05:29:57 PM »
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Offline AbbaRue

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #382 on: January 07, 2009, 06:33:26 PM »
@gotoluc
What appears very interesting in your setup is each coil is actually a step down transformer.
Am I seeing right?  Are those secondary windings made of only a few turns of thick wire?
Could you give us the figures of how many windings the primaries and secondaries are?

Offline jadaro2600

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #383 on: January 07, 2009, 07:35:56 PM »
Hello all,

It occurs to me that if you want to have a resonant circuit, it must be 'annoyed' into producing usable energy - in other words, it must want to do work through sound, light, heat or motion or some combination thereof rather than ground out.  It should work in the same way that a simple radio works ( but without being grounded )

It also occurs to me that when you ground something, chemicals in the soil may be producing a net electrical difference through differential metals and extraordinarily small currents or voltages should be accounted for and negated when taking measurements.

So doe the resonant effects have anything to do with simplistic radio or am I wrong?

- - -
I've been looking over this thread, and it appears that none of the devices built and shown should ever be taken near an airport - they all look like pipe bombs.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #383 on: January 07, 2009, 07:35:56 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #384 on: January 07, 2009, 07:46:22 PM »
@Luc

You have some people giving some good solid information and methods (math) to figure out and present what you have. I would like to add a point that none engineers sometimes don't even think of and that is a resistor is not a resistor. Unless you use carbon resistors at fairly low frequencies you have to include their other characteristics in the computations. These power resistors very all over the place on inductance. I have for example included a picture of a 10ohm 25W resistor being measured at close to 750kHz.

This fact may be of interest to some and should be to all that include them in RF circuits.

 

Hi Dr. Stiffler,

thank you for taking the time to share this very valid and valuable information. As I said above I was not happy with my attempt to measure the coil efficiency, so I made a new video and I would ask for you to look at it to see if you agree with this way of calculating the performance output of each coil. I do believe the use of the 10 ohm resistor as load on each 30,000uf cap is accurate enough since that large cap size should be more than enough to smooth it to DC. After doing the video and seeing your post I attached the probes to one of the coil output cap and I attached the scope shot below. Looks fairly flat to me and I am also happy to report my meters are accurately displaying the volts the scope is displaying.

The only thing I can see where there may be a problem is the 10 ohm input resistor. The frequency at this time is 300Khz, do you think if I pickup a accurate carbon resistor we could measure to a satisfactory result?

Link to new video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylnH1-UGITE

Thank you for sharing

Luc

Offline samedsoft

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #385 on: January 07, 2009, 07:49:44 PM »
Dear Luc,

  When you check Aromaz circuit, Antenna simply provides UWO (Ultra Wide band oscillations) to the 2N2222 transistor. So this transistor drives 3055 transistors.

   Interestingly Aromaz uses HV coil and uses reactive loads.

  When you go back to master of UWO circuits and take a look at this page http://67.76.235.52/ecat2004.asp

  You will understand how Dr. Stiffler uses a polyphase transformer and achieves OU!

" Therefore the total power produced by this ECAT is 18.11 watts for an input of 8.25 watts. The power gain is therefore 18.11 / 8.25 =  2.194"

  You can consult Dr. Stiffler for further support because I do not really know how Poly-phase systems work...

  Thanks and regards,
  Nuri Temurlenk, Turkey

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #385 on: January 07, 2009, 07:49:44 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #386 on: January 07, 2009, 08:05:44 PM »
Luc,

1st I want to say great videos you have been doing.

Now about the calculations, from personal experiency, measuring power in VS power out using a resistor in series with the input circuit and a resistor in parallel with the output circuit will allways misslead you to OU.

I attached a snapshot that shows what I'm talking about. The top scope graph shows the voltage accross the output resistor and the bottom graph shows the voltage accross the input resistor, it clearly shows that this method of comparing power in VS power out is incorrect.


Now I'm not an EE, but I think the reason for this, it is because measuring it like this does not take in consideration for the inductor/capacitor reactance and in this case it is about 316 ohms for the inductor and 316 for the capacitor at 50.3 Hz. So I'm thinking if we use resistors that match the reactance resistance, then we could get acurate readings.

I also have been testing resonance circuits and have not yet verified OU.

Hi watercellguy,

thanks for your input. Please look at my new replacment coil test 12 video and let me know if this is a better way to calculate.

Link to new replacement video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ylnH1-UGITE

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

Offline plengo

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #387 on: January 07, 2009, 08:06:54 PM »
Quick question guys,

I have a setup (not really related to what you are doing here but somehow related) which the picture shows. The 2 lead acid batteries are in series and they both power the device on the right. The device on the right also puts some energy back to the battery via the two diodes as shown.

The problem I am having is that the battery on the top (B2) reversed its polarity to a wooping 2 volts negative and the bottom battery (B1) did not discharge much at all (about .01v after 24 hours running).

The device consumes about 40 milli amps total. I have no ideia how much is returning from the device back to the battery yet.

Any one could explain to me how it is possible for a battery to reverse its polarity?

Really appreciated some answers.

Fausto.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #388 on: January 07, 2009, 08:15:22 PM »
@gotoluc
What appears very interesting in your setup is each coil is actually a step down transformer.
Am I seeing right?  Are those secondary windings made of only a few turns of thick wire?
Could you give us the figures of how many windings the primaries and secondaries are?


Hi AbbaRue,

you are right in a way. The resonating primary is about 90 turns .72mH and the pickup coil is 2 turns of oxidized 18 gauge clear plastic coated speaker wire. I placed the wire on the coil because it is easier to work with but keep in mind that they could be as much as 1" inch 2.5 cm away and it would work just as well.

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #389 on: January 07, 2009, 08:22:42 PM »
Hello all,

It occurs to me that if you want to have a resonant circuit, it must be 'annoyed' into producing usable energy - in other words, it must want to do work through sound, light, heat or motion or some combination thereof rather than ground out.  It should work in the same way that a simple radio works ( but without being grounded )

It also occurs to me that when you ground something, chemicals in the soil may be producing a net electrical difference through differential metals and extraordinarily small currents or voltages should be accounted for and negated when taking measurements.

So doe the resonant effects have anything to do with simplistic radio or am I wrong?

- - -
I've been looking over this thread, and it appears that none of the devices built and shown should ever be taken near an airport - they all look like pipe bombs.

Hi jadaro2600,

I would agree ;D... this is the basics of radio.

I wounder when the RF squad will be by ;D

Luc

 

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