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Author Topic: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 230865 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #180 on: December 23, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »
@gotoluc:
I also fried one MOSFET, and it was hard to troubleshoot at first. My symptoms were like yours. A single bad transistor will make the whole bridge circuit behave strangely, like shorting out one or the other whole side. On mine, I finally tracked it down by replacing each MOSFET individually with a known good unit and looking at the resulting scope trace. Easy for me since, planning ahead, I used sockets for my mosfets instead of direct soldering. (I've been playing with mosfets for a good while now.)

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #180 on: December 23, 2008, 04:08:07 PM »

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #181 on: December 23, 2008, 04:29:13 PM »
@Gotoluc,

>>You're beginning to be a regular Santa Claus

I was born in north Norway very close to the north Pole. So I personally know Mr. Santa. LOL

I will be looking into the wire issue. I agree that using plastic insulated wire will give some distance
between the wires. I will search my storage for such wire. It is no problem to put the secondary coil
5 mm away from the primary. You are thinking that the secondary coil will have a diameter that is 5 mm
more and sit outside the primary coil?

You are driving the IR2103's pretty hard with only 10 ohm resistors. Change to 50 ohm resistors
and add the decoupling capacitors as shown in the newest drawing. Using sockets is a good idea.

[EDIT] Attached is a proposed way to make the coils. You will have to fill in the blanks.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop,

yes, all the new mods will be on the new board and including sockets ;D

thanks for the coil illustration, you are close to reading my mind ::)

Thanks for all the non stop work ;)

Luc

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #182 on: December 23, 2008, 04:34:11 PM »
LUC
Because YOU ARE THE RIGHT STUFF
One in a zillion [billion at least]
I'm working out of state
my wife is sending Now
God bless and merry christmas
Chet

Thanks Chet, I'll let you know when I receive it.

God bless you and your family.

Luc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #182 on: December 23, 2008, 04:34:11 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #183 on: December 23, 2008, 04:37:49 PM »
@gotoluc:
I also fried one MOSFET, and it was hard to troubleshoot at first. My symptoms were like yours. A single bad transistor will make the whole bridge circuit behave strangely, like shorting out one or the other whole side. On mine, I finally tracked it down by replacing each MOSFET individually with a known good unit and looking at the resulting scope trace. Easy for me since, planning ahead, I used sockets for my mosfets instead of direct soldering. (I've been playing with mosfets for a good while now.)


Hi TinselKoala,

yes sockets are defiantly needed for the MOSFET's. Maybe we even need some fuse sockets too?

Thanks for sharing.

Luc

Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #184 on: December 23, 2008, 04:41:15 PM »
Luc,

Look at the coil drawing again. Can you take measurement of your coil for me?
I also need to know the turns for the primary and secondary. Just update the
drawing and re-post it here.

[EDIT]  I think the new transistor switch will be more robust. Mosfets are prone to failure when used with coils.
           Regular transistors will take much more "abuse" before they break.

Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #184 on: December 23, 2008, 04:41:15 PM »
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Offline Chris31

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #185 on: December 23, 2008, 05:04:14 PM »
@Groundloop and Luc
There should really be a 22ohm between pin 6 of the driver and the bootstrap capacitor. Then a diode such as 1N4936 on pin 6 (cathode) to ground (anode). A 1N4936 can also be used for the bootstrap diode. Its supposed to be mentioned on the application note of IR somewhere, I cant find it though. I experienced 2 blown drivers on my CDI circuit before I realised those 2 vital parts must be added. It is now running very stable at 340V supply.

Sticking TVS across the MOSFETs wouldnt hurt either, infact a protection is a must on anything MOSFET + BIG COIL circuit.

Excellent work everyone  ;D

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #186 on: December 23, 2008, 05:28:36 PM »
Luc,

Look at the coil drawing again. Can you take measurement of your coil for me?
I also need to know the turns for the primary and secondary. Just update the
drawing and re-post it here.

[EDIT]  I think the new transistor switch will be more robust. Mosfets are prone to failure when used with coils.
           Regular transistors will take much more "abuse" before they break.

Groundloop.

Okay here are the added info but we need to keep in mind that dimensions will change if we use plastic coated wire and so on! so keeping the .55mH is what is needed and the 250pf cap in series.

My 5mm estimate air space on the secondary pickup coil was from the center of the wire to the surface of the primary enamel wire.

I would also say (at this time) that I think that multiple coil arrangement positions could be very important to self amplify the effect as I found just before I blew the circuit. I have many new ideas to test but got to rebuild the circuit first. So maybe you want to hold off on building coils until I rebuild and test these new ideas?

Groundloop, I just saw Chris31's post, should I be adding these suggestions?

Luc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #186 on: December 23, 2008, 05:28:36 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #187 on: December 23, 2008, 05:49:02 PM »
Luc,

Thank you for making the changes to my drawing.
Yes, I will hold the making of the coils until you have tested more.

@Chris31,

If you have tested this and find that it will protect the mos drivers, then why not.

Can you make a simple drawing and post it here?

Although Transient Voltage Suppressor (TVS) will do a wonderful job of protecting mosfets, they also kill any over unity
in the circuit, I think? Better blow some transistors and get over unity results than have a stable circuit that runs forever
without any o/u. Please share your thoughts about this.

Groundlop.

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #188 on: December 23, 2008, 05:58:16 PM »
@groundloop

OK, I downloaded the eagle program but my brain is so filled up with so many things that I don't know if I will be able to abosrb a new learning curve. lol

I also downloaded your rar file and also sent it to my brother who will get a quote for me on having them pre-made already populated, etc. But in the rar there are two schematic files. I'm lost ot know which is which.

Also, I have discussed with @najman100 who lives about 15 minutes from me. I asked him for two circuits but will know more if I will need them or not once my brother gets back to me. I will also ask my brother to put the mosfets and other major components on plug-in because I have a nasty habit pf blowing mosfets.

But here is my question. Are we moving too fast? I know I know. What a question. What I am thinking is should we make the circuit and then see that changes are required to make it better, then the question is can we make it better now. Here is what I am thinking about blown mosfets.

When you do a reverse polarity switching on coils with good enough inductance, you WILL generate a very good flyback that I have learned through hard knocks that mosfets really do not like this flyback. We also know that the flyback will return to the source via the positive terminal.

Durig the reversing of the pulse, there will be a miniscule moment where both the positive and the negative will be disconnected. So the question is, is it possible to make the positive terminal that is going to be disconnected, first get connected to a capacitor tank via a diode, then connected to the negative output.

If the circuit can do this during the reverse pulsing, I am sure Tesla will stand up and start applauding. lol

Last thing, I do not want to detract form this thread but just wanted to say I have put up my coil for my @handyguy1 motionless generator here;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=3865.msg145113#msg145113


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #188 on: December 23, 2008, 05:58:16 PM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #189 on: December 23, 2008, 06:20:55 PM »
@Wattsup,

First the difference between the two circuits:

capsw.sch (schmatic drawing) capsw.brd (board layout)
This is the micro controller (PIC16F84A) version of the new switch.
I'm making enough boards of this circuit, no need for you to make any.
You will get a free board from me on the above version.

wopicosc.sch (schmatic drawing) wopicosc.brd (board layout)   (With Out Pic Oscillator = wopicosc)
This is the discrete component and logic ICs version of the new switch.
I'm making NO boards for this version. Please team up with @najman100 for making boards of THIS version only.

The new board does not use mosfets at all. The new boards uses transistors. The transistors has internal protection diodes.
Look at the data sheets for the transistor I use. Flyback is a good thing in a over unity device.

In the micro controller version it is possible to do everything you want. It is only a change of software to the PIC mcu.

Groundloop.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #190 on: December 23, 2008, 06:25:05 PM »
I agree about the TVS potentially killing the "interesting" effects.
I usually put an additional fast diode across the source and drain of each mosfet, even though they have internal diodes, to channel the flyback pulse away from the transistor. But I feel the same way about these as I do about the TVS.
The driver chips are supposed to control the timing of the MOSFETS so that shoot-thru (both on) and no-current (both off) times are minimized. Other controller chips like the Intersil HIP 4081A have the capability to fine-tune these parameters.
There's some good stuff about power dissipation in MOSFET h-bridges in the Intersil application note:
http://www.intersil.com/data/an/an9405.pdf

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #190 on: December 23, 2008, 06:25:05 PM »
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Offline najman100

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #191 on: December 23, 2008, 08:08:56 PM »
@ all
Groundloop
TinselKoala
Gotoluc
Wattsup
send me via pm your addresses and i have room for one more Groudloop you decide whom i will ship if everything is ok at the end of this week .
i decided to trim a litill bit of the PCB so we can mount the transistors on a heat sink.
i just bought a 1/32 inch epoxy double sided presensitized copper clad board .

here is a pic attached

Najman100

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #192 on: December 23, 2008, 08:14:38 PM »
Lookin good, Najman!!

Yes, builders should definitely use heat sinks for the transistors. If you use separate ones like I did, and don't let any other circuitry touch them, you can dispense with the insulating rubber or mica gasket and just mount directly to the heat sink. If you use a single sink for all the transistors they must be insulated electrically from the sink.
I realize it's a little late for design changes, but I find the addition of the LEDs on the mosfet outputs is a great help in troubleshooting and in demonstrating to others just what the H-Bridge is doing. These LEDs should be capable of being switched out of the circuit once things are running like you like.

Also, for those builders who might be constructing the "old" version using the IR 2103 (or 2104) drivers: I find that it is best to have the logic power ON and the clock signal supplied to the 4013, BEFORE applying main power to the bridge. If you put power into the bridge too soon, the mosfets aren't switching and may overload and pop.
Do you really need to ask how I found this out??
 :P

Offline najman100

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #193 on: December 23, 2008, 08:33:45 PM »
Lookin good, Najman!!

Yes, builders should definitely use heat sinks for the transistors. If you use separate ones like I did, and don't let any other circuitry touch them, you can dispense with the insulating rubber or mica gasket and just mount directly to the heat sink. If you use a single sink for all the transistors they must be insulated electrically from the sink.
I realize it's a little late for design changes, but I find the addition of the LEDs on the mosfet outputs is a great help in troubleshooting and in demonstrating to others just what the H-Bridge is doing. These LEDs should be capable of being switched out of the circuit once things are running like you like.

Also, for those builders who might be constructing the "old" version using the IR 2103 (or 2104) drivers: I find that it is best to have the logic power ON and the clock signal supplied to the 4013, BEFORE applying main power to the bridge. If you put power into the bridge too soon, the mosfets aren't switching and may overload and pop.
Do you really need to ask how I found this out??
 :P



i smell something :D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D burning


Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #194 on: December 23, 2008, 08:48:09 PM »
@Najman100,

Looks great. :-)

But why trim the PCB? I designed the PCB so that you can mount the transistors
two ways. One, standing up and mounted to a heat sink. Or, lying down bolted to a L shape
alu. profile. Then the Alu. profile can be bolted to a bigger heat sink.

I some cases the user want to use a low load and then the PCB itself will be the heat sink.
That is way I have copper under the transistors. Same goes for the 7805 regulator. The PCB
will be the heat sink.

@TinselKoala,

You can always add a couple of wires to get your LED display. I did not put in anything extra
because I want the circuit to use as little power as possible.

Groundloop.


 

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