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Author Topic: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE  (Read 230636 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #135 on: December 20, 2008, 06:46:21 PM »
Dear Luc,

How long will it take you to build the crystal oscillator?

Cheers
Thane

Hi Thane,

thanks for dropping in ;)

I think that idea I had will not work as I can now see that the frequency would need to be dynamic (change as loads changes)

I think I'll just leave it to the talented in the art of electronic to figure it out ;D

Luc


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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #135 on: December 20, 2008, 06:46:21 PM »

Offline b0rg13

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #136 on: December 20, 2008, 07:13:46 PM »
Hi everyone,

Good news ;D

Test 9: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5TcKmArOXsw

Luc

hi Gotoluc, thats a great vid, thanks for sharing.,and merry xmas to you and all, peace.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #137 on: December 20, 2008, 07:56:42 PM »
Hi TinselKoala,

thanks for the positive comment ;D... after doing the video test 9 I did hook up a DC ma meter (just for fun) to see what the ma drain was and it was 24ma with no loaded coils and 21ma with the loaded coils.

As I have said before and Groundloop also agrees!... I do not think a digital or even worse an analogue meter can give an accurate reading when the DC is switched on and off over 350,000 times a second ??? but if you think it is fine then the numbers above are the readings.

As you also know, (being first to replicate Groundloops circuit) the switch side of the circuit consumes about that many ma with no load attached from a 45vdc input voltage. Have you also noticed that if you raise the input voltage, still with no load, it keeps going up in draw of amps. When mine gets to the 100vdc range the IR2103's are too hot to keep my finger on them ;D. Even at 60vdc mine get to 130 degrease Fahrenheit. However I have not yet changed the resistors and added the capacitors that Groundloop has recommended in order to help with the heat issue. Hopefully these changes will help with the energy waste?

I'll report the changes once this has been done.

Luc

You are right--before I only looked at the voltage ripple at the bridge input, and it wasn't too bad. But just now I hooked up a current-viewing resistor, in series with a 22.8-volt LiPo battery at full charge, running the logic side off a separate 11.4-v LiPo.
The scope shows a pretty pronounced ripple on the input current to the bridge. So I agree, the DMMs will probably be confused. But that's not the case for the Simpson, usually. At those ripple freqs, with milliamps as opposed to microamps, the Simpson analog meter is actually pretty accurate at averaging things out. You pay for this in response time, sensitivity, and overall accuracy. But a lot of folks still prefer good analog meters like the Simpson for this kind of work.

I have not yet gone to higher input voltages. But I did purchase a nice toroidal power transformer yesterday that has 39-0-39 secondary, so I'll be there soon.

I noticed for the first time some heating in my components, running the 24 volts into a dead short ( the TBC primary) for about half an hour. Nothing severe, but I suppose I should change the diodes, since I now have 15 of the fancy motorola units.
My SOIC IR 2104 chips haven't gotten noticably warm yet. But the mosfets, the diodes, and the high-current wiring do get warm.

I think the heating at no load comes from "shoot through" where the mosfets aren't exactly synchronized at the freqs we're working with. A couple years ago I designed and built a more complex H-bridge around an Intersil single-chip controller that had fine tuning functions so you could really get the Hi and Lo side MOSFETS clipping along in lockstep. It worked pretty good, but I had to pack it away to move across country, and I still haven't unearthed it. That's why I was glad to see this simpler circuit.
Anyway, if the switching times can be synchronized better, there will be less power wasted in the MOSFETS. This involves, in our circuits, good lead placement, even lead lengths, matched decoupling capacitors, and stuff like that there. It's pretty hard to do without an optimized printed circuit board, even at 350 kilohertz.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #137 on: December 20, 2008, 07:56:42 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #138 on: December 20, 2008, 08:03:12 PM »
@gotoluc

I am still somewhat confused but when was that news right....

I am thinking that you should maybe take both outputs from the coils, rectify it and connect to a good sized dead battery to see if it will charge and how fast. Right now, with those two resistor loads, it is hard to see the actual energy developed or to appreciate the effect on the output end. If it is a dead battery, maybe it should not interfere with the resonance until it is getting well charged up.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #139 on: December 20, 2008, 08:42:16 PM »
@TinselKoala,

One way to reduce the wiring heat is to use a 100uF (voltage must be higher than the input voltage) across
the plus and minus of the high side of the switch input power. The capacitor will average the current and reduce
the heat in the wires. The hexfet transistor do get hot at high input voltages when switching current. This is normal for all hexfets. Use a heat sink. Now the drivers, they will also get a little hot when switching at high
frequencies. This is also normal for  the IR2103. The driver IC's must charge the gates of the hexfets and then
discharge the same gates at high frequencies.

It is a surprise to me that the switch is using power with no load at the output.
The IR2103 has a built in timing to prevent that the hexfets is on at the same time.
But as you say, when running at high frequency then the design starts to be important.
But for a simple switch as this I think it is doing a good job. :-)

Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #139 on: December 20, 2008, 08:42:16 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #140 on: December 20, 2008, 09:44:37 PM »
@gotoluc,

I think that my test idea will conclusive show a over unity or not. You have only one measurement
to take and that is the voltage over  the battery. If the voltage climbs (over time) then there is o/u.
Simple as that. I also think that that it will be easy to loop back the coils because you have already
demonstrated that the secondary power out coils can take a low restive load. So by proper design
I mean that the coils must be designed for exactly that. If you want to make many coils that are
like each other then just use a cardboard tube cut to equal length. Then you wind the same number
of turns on each  cardboard tube segment. Glue the wire with super glue. That way you get several
coils that are the same. Over the secondary of each coil you connect a variable capacitor in parallel.
The variable capacitor will allow you to tune each coil (LC) pair to the same resonance. In my
drawing I only used two coils. But you will probably need many more than that. You just series two
and two coils to get the needed voltage (must be higher than the battery voltage) and then parallel
enough coils to get the needed current. (Must be higher than the total loss in the circuit.) My estimate
is that you will need approx. 8 coils on the output.

Groundloop.

Hi Groundloop,

Thanks for taking the time to put this together for me ;)

Sounds like a reasonable idea to me and there should be no reason why it should not work ;D

I'll also be changing the resistors and adding the capacitors on Monday and hopefully I'll get an amp draw reduction with that also.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2008, 12:01:52 AM »
Hi Luc,
nice circuit,
but if you still use the method from your schematics at:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=6225.msg144630#msg144630
to measure the input current via AC position, then this is pretty wrong.

Because of the graetz bridge you have non sine wave current flowing there
and that is pulsating current, as the graetz bridge conducts the current
only when the voltage at the charge cap is less than the transformer voltage.

So it is a bad idea to measure it there with the AC position.

Better build a LC lowpassfilter with several stages and put a DC ampmeter
there into the chain so you really measure DC input current....

Also you need to drive all the circuits from one source and
measure then the whole input current because at these about 312 Khz
frequency the board has enough stray capacity to insert power
from your 12 Volts battery and from your wave generator to input also
some measureable power....

So you really need to build your own oscillator and
also power the switching driver board from the same power
supply and also the oscillator.

Only then you can measure correctly the input current and power via the multiple
LC lowpassfilter method.

At these switching frequencies any AC measurements will be a failure with
big error factors, so better only go the DC way.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #141 on: December 21, 2008, 12:01:52 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #142 on: December 21, 2008, 12:17:22 AM »
P.S: At these frequencies you unfortunately via the gate-source and
gate-drain capacitance have some
power transfer from your gate of the MOSFETs
to the drain and the sources ,
so thus also to your coils...

So your 12 Volts battery puts still power
into it too. That you have to considder correctly
in your COP calculation
or avoid it by powering the whole circuit incl. the oscillator
from ONE power supply only.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #143 on: December 21, 2008, 01:26:32 AM »
Hi Stefan,

Lest me just say that we are working on a circuit that will not use two power inputs, but
batteries for the input power. Everything will be powered from the battery bank. Also, a loop back
test has been proposed.

I would also like to comment on your concerns of power transfer to the circuit.

First, you are totally wrong that the signal generator can input any power.
The input resistance of a 4013 IC is in the millions mega ohms range.
The same goes for the impedance. The signal generator is connected direct to
the clock pin of the 4013 and does not consume any power or transfer any power to the circuit.

Second, does the cmos drivers inject any power to the output? Yes they do. But the test done has shown that
this power is very low. Some few mA. When this circuit is scaled up by using more coils then this small power
feed will be nothing compared to the total wattage going into and coming out of the coils.

Third, Although I agree with you about using DC volt meters and filter and stuff,  this is total irrelevant for the
circuit operation knowing the current usage. We has found that the circuit switch itself uses some power
just to run without load. Later on the next logical test will be running the circuit from batteries and loop back
the output. All we need to know is if the battery bank charge up or discharge to find out if it is o/u or not.

Fourth, Luc has shown that the total current usage is fairly constant regardless of connected load or not.
He then connect an additional coil and load and the input power usage did NOT go up. Even if the meter
itself did not not show the 100% correct amperage usage, the meter still did not show a differential higher
value when the loads was connected. I think this is significant.

Fifth, I find it very strange that you, the owner of overunity.com, a forum called free energy, does not welcome
the huge work we have put into this. I honestly believed that the common goal was to develop some sort of
free energy system to help the world. Luc has done a great job so far with his testing. He has shown that
multiple coils with load does not reflect the load back to the input. It may not be the free energy system that
will power your house, but it is a humble start. You probably did miss the proposed test for running this switch
from a battery bank with a loop back of the energy posted in this thread. I have been working on a new
switch for the last few days. The new switch uses optocouplers between the logic part and the switch part.
I have tested and measured that the maximum possible energy flow that can happen through the
optocouplers to the floating output switch is approx. 2 - 3 milli Watt. I did plan to build this circuit using
a lot of my own time and money. Making PCB's and buying parts will set me back approx. 500 Euros.
Now I'm not so determined to do that.

Last, as a owner of this forum called free energy, you must never forget that it is the very few people that
actually do research that is keeping your boat floating. Of the 18686 members of this forum, there is but
a few that actually build stuff and test stuff. Luc is one of these few, he should be cheered on for the
countless hours and hard work he has put into this.

Attache is a drawing of the switch I have been working on lately. The switch has not been built and tested
yet, and I have some doubt if I ever will do that.

Regards,
Groundloop.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #143 on: December 21, 2008, 01:26:32 AM »
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Offline najman100

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #144 on: December 21, 2008, 04:51:49 AM »
Hi Stefan,

Lest me just say that we are working on a circuit that will not use two power inputs, but
batteries for the input power. Everything will be powered from the battery bank. Also, a loop back
test has been proposed.

I would also like to comment on your concerns of power transfer to the circuit.

First, you are totally wrong that the signal generator can input any power.
The input resistance of a 4013 IC is in the millions mega ohms range.
The same goes for the impedance. The signal generator is connected direct to
the clock pin of the 4013 and does not consume any power or transfer any power to the circuit.

Second, does the cmos drivers inject any power to the output? Yes they do. But the test done has shown that
this power is very low. Some few mA. When this circuit is scaled up by using more coils then this small power
feed will be nothing compared to the total wattage going into and coming out of the coils.

Third, Although I agree with you about using DC volt meters and filter and stuff,  this is total irrelevant for the
circuit operation knowing the current usage. We has found that the circuit switch itself uses some power
just to run without load. Later on the next logical test will be running the circuit from batteries and loop back
the output. All we need to know is if the battery bank charge up or discharge to find out if it is o/u or not.

Fourth, Luc has shown that the total current usage is fairly constant regardless of connected load or not.
He then connect an additional coil and load and the input power usage did NOT go up. Even if the meter
itself did not not show the 100% correct amperage usage, the meter still did not show a differential higher
value when the loads was connected. I think this is significant.

Fifth, I find it very strange that you, the owner of overunity.com, a forum called free energy, does not welcome
the huge work we have put into this. I honestly believed that the common goal was to develop some sort of
free energy system to help the world. Luc has done a great job so far with his testing. He has shown that
multiple coils with load does not reflect the load back to the input. It may not be the free energy system that
will power your house, but it is a humble start. You probably did miss the proposed test for running this switch
from a battery bank with a loop back of the energy posted in this thread. I have been working on a new
switch for the last few days. The new switch uses optocouplers between the logic part and the switch part.
I have tested and measured that the maximum possible energy flow that can happen through the
optocouplers to the floating output switch is approx. 2 - 3 milli Watt. I did plan to build this circuit using
a lot of my own time and money. Making PCB's and buying parts will set me back approx. 500 Euros.
Now I'm not so determined to do that.

Last, as a owner of this forum called free energy, you must never forget that it is the very few people that
actually do research that is keeping your boat floating. Of the 18686 members of this forum, there is but
a few that actually build stuff and test stuff. Luc is one of these few, he should be cheered on for the
countless hours and hard work he has put into this.

Attache is a drawing of the switch I have been working on lately. The switch has not been built and tested
yet, and I have some doubt if I ever will do that.

Regards,
Groundloop.




Nice setup can you add up an oscillator so we do not need a signal generator ?
thank you
Najman

Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #145 on: December 21, 2008, 08:23:30 AM »
@najman100,

The proposed circuit uses a PIC micro controller and must have firmware loaded(has not made that yet).
The micro controller already has a oscillator, the 20 MHz crystal. Getting the switch to self oscillate
is easy. Just a couple of lines in the firmware program. I was planning to let the micro learn from
the user applied oscillator input. When the user finds the resonant frequency then he/she just presses
the run/stop button and the actual oscillator frequency will be stored in the micro's EEPROM.
Next time you power up the circuit the circuit will oscillate at the stored frequency. If I decide to
build this circuit then I will post the design files and firmware here.

It is also possible to use a discrete IC (like the 4013 etc.) to control the switch. Just combine one opto LED
with another and make a external oscillator to light the leds. I will post a circuit drawing of that also for those
that will build such a circuit.

Regards,
Groundloop.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2008, 11:10:21 AM by Groundloop »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #145 on: December 21, 2008, 08:23:30 AM »
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Offline najman100

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #146 on: December 21, 2008, 03:49:48 PM »
@najman100,

The proposed circuit uses a PIC micro controller and must have firmware loaded(has not made that yet).
The micro controller already has a oscillator, the 20 MHz crystal. Getting the switch to self oscillate
is easy. Just a couple of lines in the firmware program. I was planning to let the micro learn from
the user applied oscillator input. When the user finds the resonant frequency then he/she just presses
the run/stop button and the actual oscillator frequency will be stored in the micro's EEPROM.
Next time you power up the circuit the circuit will oscillate at the stored frequency. If I decide to
build this circuit then I will post the design files and firmware here.

It is also possible to use a discrete IC (like the 4013 etc.) to control the switch. Just combine one opto LED
with another and make a external oscillator to light the leds. I will post a circuit drawing of that also for those
that will build such a circuit.

Regards,
Groundloop.

Excellent idea Groundloop
As stated in my PM i will build 3 of these pcb if this is your final .


Najman

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #147 on: December 21, 2008, 03:50:42 PM »
@groundloop

My previous post was along the same lines as @Stefans and I am sure in the number of forum members here, some also had the same questions, which I am glad @Stefan formulated, all without trying to take anything away from what @gotoluc has done up till now, as well as yourself. Asking questions is part of the discover process, is it not.

Plus thanks for your response because I too was concerned that the FG would add power to the system and it is good to know that it would not. This means that making a totally looped system including an integrated FG circuit is a secondary concern at this stage, which is just greeeeeeeeat.

OK, regarding your last circuit (now second to last circuit - lol), is this the final version and also, if I wanted to get that circuit made here in Montreal by my brothers friend that has a circuit board making and populating company, can they etch the circuit board just with the second image or would I need to give him the first image? Or, is there a standard file format you can save your circuit so that it can be used by them to etch the board in layers??? I know nothing about this but would like to have a board made. Maybe a few.

Maybe on last point on what you said about so many members and only a few doing projects. Since I have put my HotMail address in my forum profile, I get emails from all over from people, lots of builders, that do not post on the forum because of many reasons but mainly because many feel intimidated by the public exposure and potential ridicule, aggressive counter-posts, etc., I should not have to expand on this any further. Posting your ideas publicly is not for the faint at heart but I just wanted you to know that all that we do on the forum in the spirit of advancing toward free energy IS appreciated by the silent majority and don't let anyone tell you the contrary. Thanks again to both of you.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #148 on: December 21, 2008, 04:28:49 PM »
@najman100,

Both circuits posted is final. I have not had the time to do a PCB layout for the second circuit yet
but I will do that very soon. I will post a zipped file containing both circuits complete with gerber
pcb design files. I use the Cadsoft Eagle CAD version 4.

@wattsup,

Your right. I probably was a little "grumpy" when I wrote those lines. Many people does very good work.
It is a shame that they do not post it over here. If more people posted their research then more ideas
will be created.

As I said above, I will post the design files soon. The firmware will not be ready before I have ordered my PCBs
and have soldered the first unit. This will be next year. (Around 15 January.) Sorry, but these things take time.

Groundloop.

Offline wattsup

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Re: RESONANCE EFFECTS FOR EVERYONE TO SHARE
« Reply #149 on: December 21, 2008, 05:03:01 PM »
@Groundloop

Thanks for your reply. Take all the time you need. I am always planning projects that I would like to do in advance and always have 2-3 going so January is perfect for me to start looking into this.

I will post some photos today in the appropriate thread on my motionless generator idea that stems from @handyguy1's swing generator. Just finished making a 1500 turns outer coil. I may need some assistance in setting up a small circuit to run it. More on that thread.

Now back to @gotoluc's testing, in one of my posts here, I asked if the output of the circuit was reverse polarity and I know you responded but I feel your response was not clear enough for me so here I go again and sorry if I am repeating things but when threads get longer and longer, sometimes it's good to re-cap so guys can have an up to date idea on what's going on.

Output Terminal = OT

1) Does the DC output with reverse polarity pulsing (RPP) mean this......

Pulse 1 = OT1 is positive and OT2 is negative
Pulse 2 = OT1 is negative and OT2 is positive
Pulse 3 = OT1 is positive and OT2 is negative
and so on.

2) What is the rated voltage and current available on the OT.

3) Will RPP produce exactly the same thing as AC and since there are two coils on the output in series, does this mean that each coil output is out of phase by 180 degrees or are they perfectly in phase.

Once I know this concretely, I and many others can look into proposing some alternative coil designs to push this into the higher OU levels and that could be ready for January. Always thinking in advance.

Added:

I saw this FG on ebay because mine is only giving out like 5vpp. Would this be a good choice.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/MCP-HQ-DELUXE-FUNCTION-GENERATOR-FREQUENCY-COUNTER_W0QQitemZ260323413691QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Signal_Sources?hash=item260323413691&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

 

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