Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy
Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: nrama on December 01, 2008, 07:38:38 AM
-
Has any one seen an application for patent for a deflecting magnetic field shield ? The patent USPTO No is 7220488. If so I would like to hear from any one who has investigated the claim. If the claim is verifiable an all magnet motor may be possible.
-
Here is a link to the patent:
http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7220488.PN.&OS=PN/7220488&RS=PN/7220488
Jason
-
Here is a thread on shielding:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4528.0
Jason
-
Thank you for the quick reply.
I think I worded my request rather badly! I have in fact read the patent on the deflecting magnetic field shield and have gone as far as attempting to reproduce the results. I am not certain if the failure is due to not having the specific ingredients as per the patent. I was wondering aloud if any one else has looked closely at the patent and attempted replication.
What is interesting about the claim is that the ingredients are non magnetic and the only metal in the device is six micron silver powder. The device is claimed to actually deflect magnetic field as a mirror would light. The implication and scope of the deflector boggle the mind.
For the record I have attempted to contact the patent applicants through their patent attorney without success.
If the deflector actually works it would be a simple matter to build a magnet motor.
-
I tried calling today Mr. Gordon Wadle who is one of the inventors of the above patent but no-one answered so I will try at days end. I would like to speak with him regarding his patent and if there is any available product yet and also to invite him on the forum. Hopefully, he can inform us himself. In the patent it says it works with high power magnets. It took them years of trial and error testing to develop it. Hmmm.
-
In the event anyone can get the deflector shield working I shall describe a simple device which may benefit from it. I have attempted to share this idea with another tinkerer but have got NO response.
The motor comprises two identical discs,10mm acrylic, mounted coaxially with the shield between. I had in fact initially used 1.5mm mild steel for the shielding but the adverse magnetic gradient set up between the shielded and non shielded areas prevented rotation. The magnets,6 on each disc, are 10mm diameter x 10mm Neo. The stator is relatively fixed with the shield,6 bladed fan shaped, rotating in opposite direction to the rotor through bevel gears. The rotation of the shield and implied rotor, alternately expose the opposing magnets. A series of impulses is the purpose of the exercise.
The relatively fixed stator may be rotated to advance or retard the impulses. It is important that the shield must NOT be magnetic, hence my interest in the DEFLECTING MAGNETIC FIED SHIELD.
I was prepared to share this idea with the inventors of the shield. I am also prepared to send some CAD drawings to whoever is interested. BUT it must be STRESSED that all depends on the SHIELD.
Here is hoping someone has more luck with the replication of the shield.
-
I heard lead will deflect a magnetic field. Maybe they were using it in gasoline in order to disperse it around the world so the value and availability of it would be unfavorable. I do know it is used extensively for radioactive signals. kudos
-
@guys
Well, I tried again tonight to talk with Mr. Wadle regarding his magnetic deflector material patent and I managed to get him on the phone. Unfortunately I did not record the call that lasted a good 25 minutes so I will just report from my quick notes.
It's funny though when you give someone a cold call, they don't know who you are but you know them a little from what you read, they tell you they have only 2 minutes to talk but when you start getting into the conversation they are so happy to talk to someone that really wants to understand not only the object in question, but the business side of it, the family side of it, etc. Inventors are a breed on their own indeed.
OK, basically he had been working on this of his kitchen table for a good two years trying over 1000 different mix combinations before he came up with his present material. He had companies supplying samples of pure elements to do his research. He did his mixes in those small transparent plastic cafeteria cups you put ketchup in, with a cover. When he said this, you quickly have to understand the enormity of the task so you are talking to a man that has a high level of determination which is very commendable indeed, both to him and his family that stood by him all the way.
Mr. Wadle is a seasoned businessman and own a company in Maine called MagCap Engineering (Magcap.com) that works in industrial transformers (wow to us) but they have also made a new electronic invention that draws about 1.5 volts and some mA from trees. They even had MIT do tests with a tree in a Faraday cage and their device still drew the voltage. They are working this company in the forestry industry were this device will be stuck onto trees to sense forest fires. (Hey Gordon you could call it a Tree Sentry or Sentree for short - lol). Instinctively, I asked him if he put 10 of these on the same tree and he said you'll have more amperage but the same volts. It does not work in series. He asked me if I knew that the ground was positive and the tree was negative and I told him that was news to me. I did not want to get into the deep because of time. We always think the Earth is negative. Hmmmmm. Guys here will ponder that one for sure. Anyways back to the deflector.
He said that although the thing is patented, there is still some information that anyone would need to make this material (standard practice in patent disclosure) and they are presently discussing with an overseas company that is looking to simply buy them outright. He does not have any interest as far as I can tell in developing this himself or with his partner. Naturally, I asked him what is holding back the deal and the obvious answer was the amount of money they are looking for. He is already doing very very well and need for money does not play into their immediate needs so this gives them the strength to patiently negotiate along their terms.
I asked him to explain more about the deflector. He said we have to understand that this deflector will not work if it is covering a magnet or a portion. I was puzzled because I was expecting a miracle coating that stopped part of a magnet field, but then started to understand. The material will momentarily deflect the magnetic field but if the magnet is held next to it, it will not work. One of his engineer friends was asked to take a look at it and he put it in between a large magnetic switch and the switch did not move. He came back saying this is supposed to be impossible but it works. lol
Basically, just like a magnet has to move in and out to apply a field (or initiate coupling), the deflector has to move in and out of a field to deflect it. The magnetic field cannot apply if it does not move because it will oversature and the deflector cannot deflect if it does not move into a non magnetic region before it deflects again. The perfect opposites. We could call it an Anti-Magnet. lol
So basically if you had four coils at 90 degrees with four deflectors placed at the right spot and your rotor had four magnets at 90 degrees, this would equal a momentary condition when the magnet passes near the deflector then away, it could momentarily block half a polarity and reduce drag. Hmmmmmm.
I am thinking that if you had a magnetic rotor disc, with a deflective stator (no coils) that sends the deflection straight back to the magnets and just let them loose (or give them just a nudge) they should turn continuously because the same polarity would be deflected back to the magnet producing replusion.
There will have to be developped a new performance table for "magnetic deflective materials" with new terms. A whole new industry is born and the applications will be tremendous indeed. Whoever "can" and does not scoop this up will miss something very very big.
Imagine an air core coil that is pulsing on and off and on the top and the bottom you put deflectors that will deflect the field from all sides north and south into one central point. Hmmmmmmmmm.
Imagine a generator with a fixed rotor and fixed stator but what does turn is a deflection cylinder that goes between the rotor and stator. The magnetic field would still move on and off the coils and there would be no drag.
I ask him if the buyer of the patent needed a billion dollar manufacturing plant make it and he said no, not at all. It the percentages, the mix sequence and some other factors. It would still take some serious R&D to make this is larger scale but I asked him if he understood the scope of his invention and the implications this could have for the making of free energy devices. He said yes he did somewhat but the FE field does not interest him at all.
Anyways, not being one to close the book that easily, I asked what the magic number was and he said in the two figures (so XXm$). lol It is crazy how guys come up with a figure. I asked him if I had someone who would be interested and he answered that if I bring them forward before the other company, no problem. So, who wants to buy a Magnetic Deflector and start a whole new industry? I'll have to make some calls. lol
Finally, I told him hat he is welcome to come here and talk whenever he feels like it, so we shall see.
wattsup
Added: I attached a copy of the patent below.
-
Hi Wattsup,
thank you for the interesting report!
Hopefully the overseas company will not lock the patent and any rights on it into a drawer for ever...
Even if they don't, chances are we get very far from learning some important know-how unless Mr Wadle appears here or on some other forum and share what he can.
rgds, Gyula
-
the sad thing is you have all the ingredients and the knowledge of how it works you just need to find the right mixture and your already making it sound like a lost cause... If you really wanted to know his magic formula you would grab a large amount of all the ingredients and start experimenting...
-
@nrama, How did you bind your elements? Press, melt, spin, adhere,etc? I only ask cuz i will experiment with the patent elements as well as some of my own ( like delpeted uranium), I just dont want to duplicate what you have tried due to cost. A video would be great!! Thanx
@ Wattsup , Thanx
-
Great work on the call to the inventor! Smart detective work through the old check with the patent lawyer trick...LOL
Anyway, below I found already available material you can purpose for magnet shielding. I could be thinking the wrong application but who knows. Check 'em out...
http://www.lessemf.com/mag-shld.html
(cool videos of magnetic shielding)
http://video.google.com/videosearch?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=magnet+sheilding&um=1&sa=X&oi=video_result_group&resnum=4&ct=title#
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-Yevof-zCI
-
My cousin duplicated Mr Wadles work, discovered its magnetic deflection properties were momentary and designed a entirely new method mechanical electrical generation around them over 6 months ago. He filed a patent on the method last Oct (see attached).
A METHOD OF GENERATING ELECTRICAL POTENTIAL FROM A STATIONARY MAGNET AND A STATIONARY CONDUCTOR
Here is his contact information
Richard K Black Jr
thesafetyguy@gmail.com
Tell him Lucy told you to contact him:)
-
I spoke on the phone with Mr Wadle about the patent about a year ago. I obtained all of the ingredients as he
instructed me. I still have his email address. I even bought a small scale to measure the weights. If anyone wants
some black magma, or silica, I have the exact items that Gordon told me to get. He even told me some slight
modifications from what the patent says, as to how to mix them. I got the silver and the cal-mag-zinc also.
Perhaps I didn't test my results with enough elaborate equipment to detect any effect. I don't have a laboratory, or
money to engage in measuring any small "One time" effects of a moving magnetic field. I assembled the
ingredients and placed magnets near each other, inserting the patent mixture in between, and noticed no
obvious reduction in the magnet's strength. After emailing Gordon about this, he said it needs to be tested in a
vertical relationship to the earth. I detected no difference doing that either.
I have to guess that the only effect, on the patent had to do with the distance increase between the magnets,
whether the patent was there or not. I pretty much assumed from my testing, that the patent doesn't work. I did wonder how
the professors at MIT (I think that is where he told me that he had it tested) would have been fooled by this.
Gordon said he had to pay $50,000 to get them to write papers to prove the effectiveness for the US patent office.
I am not saying this money was a payoff, just a charge for their time to check it out, and do whatever testing.
If there is an effect of the mixture, it is not obvious to the average person like me. I would like to see the test
results of the professors, and how they tested it.
-
@smith
Thank you for letting us know about your efforts.
One question: Have you tried either Example 1 or 2 to repeat dynamically? I mean perhaps the shielding effect happens only in a moving case where either the shield or the permanent magnet is passing by each other, (perhaps at 180 or in a certain angle).
I know this is not so in the patent... but this would be the only logical approach to explain the term "one time effect" (if it is true at all of course but I always approach with the benefit of doubt ::))
Regards, Gyula
-
Does the name "Savage-z" ring a bell? Your name looks familiar.
I can't help but ask if you were in that forum some year or so ago? So was I. If not, I wasted a few bytes, Oh well.
I will have to review the patent, if that is what you are referring to with example 1 and 2. OK, it is coming back a little.
I opened the patent pdf that I still have on my hard drive. I may have skipped trying the plastic and lead and stainless
materials, and went right for the iron fillings and the patent material. I used two plastic cups about 1.5 inches diameter
and squished the mixture in between the two cups, holding it in place. I do not know that I have a 28 lb pull magnet.
I tried a few different Neo, and a ceramic magnets. I did have the iron fillings. They stuck to the bottom of the
cups as though the patent wasn't there. I also tried using a piece of copper tubing squished flat with one end blocked.
I filled the copper tube with the mixture and placed it in between a magnet and the fillings, and they stuck the same.
I thought that perhaps a base material was important to have, as shown in figure 1. As for the thickness of the
patent mixture squished between the cups, I tried various amounts, obviously, the thicker it is, the weaker the field anyway.
Gordon also told me not to use the nano silver that the patent mentions. He said stick with the flake form.
He never explained to me what the term "Slightly moistened" meant. The difference between example 1 and 2 is
not obvious to me. I don't recall how much of this that I am saying is still in the Savage-z forum. The ingredients
do mix together pretty well. They just blend together.
If anyone wants any of the materials, I have plenty of the coal slag and silica. The calcium stuff I got at the dollar General
per Gordon's verbal instruction. I have a small amount of the silver left. Once you mix the stuff it is next to impossible
to separate them. Though, I just don't know how to. As for others trying the patent, It seems to me that one or more of the members of the Savage-z group also tried as I did, and had no success. To those who might read this and wonder what Savage-z is, it was some fellow's Yahoo group, based around the guy's magnet motor idea. Since you haven't heard of it, that
obviously means it never took off. The guy did though, (dissappeared, that is) and I have not heard from him since.
-
@smith
Hi Paul, yes it is me and I also remember you from Savage-Z group. Unfortunately, my building attempts on Cedric's proposed setup had to be suspended because the side forces from the facing magnets were still too strong on the axle (in spite of the ceramic magnets instead of Neo) and due to my mechanical helper friend's other occupations I have had to postpone the reconstruction of the base with a more robust axle. I am not yet fully convinced Cedric's setup is a total crap... and will talk to my friend soon on a "how about making a new base with a strong shaft".
Yes I meant the patent's examples as you correctly deduced. (The patent is uploaded here, it is an attachement to Reply #7 on the first page of this thread from wattsup, he had a longer phone conversation with Gordon about 3 weeks ago. If Gordon is really selling his "knowledge" then there is little hope he discloses anything important to forum members here or elsewhere provided he really has got some tricks he did not include in the patent.
Lucy's letter above is interesting because the momentary effect of the magnetic deflection is mentioned, this is why I thought whether you could repeat tests Example 1 or 2 in a dynamic fashion (of course this is not included in the patent text). Maybe we could invite to this forum Richard K Black Jr ( thesafetyguy@gmail.com ) Lucy refers to?
Regards, Gyula
-
In response to the Giron material that OscarMeyer mentioned. I purchased some of that some time back.
It is a high carbon steel material that has wood grain like structure to it. If you take it apart, exposing the steel
inside, it is layered in 90 degree fashion. The steel pieces themselves will crack if you bend it in one direction,
and be more durable in the other. So the two layers are 90 to each other. It is probably useful for shielding some
limited applications. I have no use for it beyond the initial playing around with it that I did. Perhaps I am twisted in my
thinking about what I think I need to be useful, but that would be a shield material that blocks the field without behaving
like a ferrous metal otherwise.
The Savage -Z deal in my mind, fell apart, because it needed a more effective shield material, but perhaps I am wrong.
Aside from that, the concept made sense to me, but constructing accurate test jigs are no trivial matter.
I got the impression from talking to Gordon, that he didn't seem to me, like a typical genius type, who used math
equations, or technical jargon, to explain any of his experiments. He seemed to me like an experimenter type, who
came up with an idea, and did some kitchen table lab experiments. He mentioned his tree-power experiments to me
while on the phone as well. Although it is interesting, I wonder how useful it is, and my current interests were on the
shielding deal. I asked him how he came up with the patent, he said by trial and error. He said that he would combine
substances and note the effect. Add a little more of this or that, and see what happens. He claimed that he spent
thousands of $ on this method, and finally came up with the patent. As far as it appeared to me, Gordon thought
that it works. Gordon mentioned working with a fellow in Texas, who was developing a m-motor using the patent.
Gordon told me that he saw the motor in operation. In another interesting connection, I conversed with another
person who also went to see this fellow in Texas, interdependently from Gordon. According to this other person, the
same m-motor did not work. So there you go. Which one do you want to believe? By the way, this second person
said, that the fellow in Texas had developed some type of working m-motor, but it did not use the patent. The
claim was that he could not get the patent to work.
I may have given up too soon on the patent, but it does not mention the so-called "Dynamic effect" that I could
find. Certainly it might be interesting to see if Lucy is in the sky with diamonds, or if this Black fellow's deal is real.
No disrespect intended, just my goofy sense of humor.
I will see what I have left of the already mixed materials and consider some testing. Any suggestions for this dynamic test?
-
Whilst I digest all the posts to date and follow some lines of inquiry I thought I might share a bit of info. Now don't shoot me if you are already aware of this!.This is similar to the Gary Wesley findings. I mean we have been taught that like poles always repel each other. Right? Using two Neos of 19mm dia x 26mm length and mild steel shield 8mmthich x 22mm x 26mm it is possible to get get repulsion and attraction depending on the distance between the like poles. By placing the shield on one pole of one magnet attempt to bring the like pole of the other magnet toward the shield. As expected there will be an increasing repel force. Persisting in the movement there comes a point where there is neither attraction nor repulsion. Any further movement will now result in attraction.
Can any sharp mind suggest how this phenomenon may be used if at all? A not too significant diversion I hope from the main task of the holy grail,magnetic deflecting field shield or mdfs.
n.rama
-
I will see what I have left of the already mixed materials and consider some testing. Any suggestions for this dynamic test?
Well, nothing special, just try to mimic a passing rotor magnet in front of a soft iron stator piece (or magnet stator) so that this powder "shield" is placed between them (also between the facing areas) or placed onto one side of a magnet, the point is there would be continuous movement, not a static or not a very slow moving test. Also, if you can turn the "shield" 90 degree wrt its previous position to check the direction sensitivity of the powder (length or width wise) if any. Thanks.
-
I am not a physics major, but isn't there some rule about equal and opposite forces? Unless in the quantum world of electrons and such, these
rules are different, I don't know. When I take a strong neo magnet and quickly pass it by the patent mixture, should the mixture (As
a pile of powder) somehow react to the magnet swooping by (Aside from the coal slag having some ferrite content). I would expect that it should
be either momentarily be attracted or repulsed, or make some movement, besides from the wind passing by as I move the magnet. I see no
activity when doing this test. All I see is some of the coal slag stick to my magnet.
-
I tried again tonight to talk with Mr. Wadle regarding his magnetic deflector material patent and I managed to get him on the phone.
Great work wattsup on contacting the shielding inventor.
Interesting reading on your (and others) conversations with him.
I guess the xxmm$ question(s) is(are):
1. how effective is the shielding
2. effect duration
3. complete fabrication techniques
4. documented proof of the effects
Does it work? Is it practical?
If anything, I would venture a guess that it might shield a relatively small % - like 0.1% or something.
Meaning - it would TECHNICALLY work, but not PRACTICALLY.
Further details and concrete evidence and results would be needed.
-
As to Lucys' post of the patent application:
Thank you Lucy for posting it.
The devil lies in the details.
As such, I find it to be short on details and long on generalities.
A few to address: (my comments in bold)
[000051] The present inventor is the first one that thought of the idea of placing a movable magnetic shield between a stationary magnet and a stationary conductor in order to expand and contract the magnetic lines of flux crossing a stationary conductor to produce electromagnetic potential and generate the electricity.
This is the major basis of the patent. However, he is NOT the first one to think of/present this idea and there are many documented examples of others pursuing the same methods. A few examples are on this website. The guy using washers as shields in this manner comes to mind (anyone remember/link to that thread?)
As such, attempting to patent a process that has been previously documented/disseminated is not possible.
And though I haven't done a patent search on this, I would guess there are existing patents that - at the very least - would have to be refered to.
Was a full search done by a professional? Were previous documented disclosures of this process considered?
I suspect approval would require elimination of this paragraph. But then, it's really the basis of the application - so I see the whole thing as a no-go.
(not trying to shoot you down - just stating the facts as I see them and in my opinion)
[000054] The present invention contemplates the use of any type of non-ferrous shielding material, such as the one described by Robert C. O'Handley in Modern Magnetic Materials, Principles and Applications, John Wiley & Sons, New York, pp. 456-468, which provide nanocrystalline magnetic alloys, which are particularly well-suited for rapid switching of magnetic flux. These alloys are primarily composed of crystalline grains, or crystallites, each of which has at least one dimension of a few nanometers. The entire disclosure of each of these disclosures is hereby incorporated by reference into this specification.
Further information on this shielding material would be of great interest. Anyone have links, .pdfs, notes etc? Will it actually work in the manner required/proposed?
[000055] Other non-ferrous magnetic materials having particularly useful properties are formed from an amorphous Co-Nb-B (cobalt-niobium-boron) alloy having near-zero magnet-obstruction and relatively strong magnetization, as well as good mechanical strength and corrosion resistance.
Further information on this shielding material would be of great interest. Anyone have links, .pdfs, notes etc? Will it actually work in the manner required/proposed?
[000056] The preferable non-ferrous material for the magnetic shield according to the present invention is the one described in US Patent No. 7, 220,488, entitled “Deflecting Magnetic Field Shield†by William May and Gordon Wadle. The entire disclosure of each of these disclosures is hereby incorporated by reference into this specification. Examples 2 and 3 of the patent clearly show how a magnetic shielding material can deflect or block the magnetic lines of flux.
And now the heart of the details, the Wadle shielding. But does it actually work and is a generator using it practical/possible? (see my earlier post)
[000057] The main advantage to the shielding material is that it is non-ferrous; thus, there will be no loss of power rom the magnet(s) when used next to the shield.
Yes - it is the (as yet unachieved) holy-grail. This is a extraordinary claim REQUIRING extraordinary PROOF.
[000058] Another embodiment of the present invention contemplates the use of semi-ferrous materials for the magnetic shield.
Materials like... what? And then you have the, as still to this day, the problem of the ferrous material shielding being attracted to the magnet requiring large energy input to break it away.
_ _ _ _
Thanks again for the posting Lucy.
I look forward to further information from anyone that may offer it.
-
In response to the Giron material that OscarMeyer mentioned. I purchased some of that some time back.
It is a high carbon steel material that has wood grain like structure to it. If you take it apart, exposing the steel
inside, it is layered in 90 degree fashion. The steel pieces themselves will crack if you bend it in one direction,
and be more durable in the other. So the two layers are 90 to each other. It is probably useful for shielding some
limited applications. I have no use for it beyond the initial playing around with it that I did. Perhaps I am twisted in my
thinking about what I think I need to be useful, but that would be a shield material that blocks the field without behaving
like a ferrous metal otherwise.
I understand this thread is rather old, but I stumbled on it today. I'd like to set the record straight and point to the fact that the product you can buy in the States called Giron is actually G-iron Flex, produced by G-iron Srl, an Italian company. The company's core business is the development and installation of shielding system with their proprietary technology to protect people and sensitive equipment from the effects of the magnetic field. G-iron Flex is as of now the only magnetic shielding material that is still efficient when bent to a 90-degree angle. Visit http://www.g-iron.it/en (http://www.g-iron.it/en) to read more about it.