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Author Topic: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench  (Read 29671 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #45 on: December 16, 2008, 04:00:21 PM »
In the video I described, and showed, 2 spark strengths. By "intermediate" I mean a spark strength that was, well, intermediate between the other two strengths shown.
I have so far only pulsed the coils with the damped oscillatory AC high-voltage ringdown capacitive discharge produced by my little 6 kV power supply, 110 nF doorknob cap stack, and high-speed rotary spark gap.
So far, as far as magnetic field strength goes, I have noticed no differences in behaviour of the two types of coil. But it does seem as though the TBC stores and returns more energy overall, probably due to the electric field rather than the magnetic.
But I still haven't had a chance to complete the gimballed magnet for direction mapping.

Offline 0c

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2008, 04:32:03 AM »
So the TBC makes a better transmitter and the spiral pancake coil is a better receiver?

I'm anxious to see the results of the DC magnetic field intensity and field shape experiments. To see if there is any truth to the rumor that the TBC has a stronger field. This should be tested with steady low-voltage DC and with short (0.1 to 0.05 second) DC pulses to check for differences between the two coil types.

I've also heard rumors the Lenz effects are minimal or nonexistent in a TBC, thus my earlier comment about possibly setting up a pendulum to swing over the coil. Of course, being the wacko I am, the pendulum arm and bob may not be quite as straightforward as one might think. I do have some deviant thoughts.  ;)

0c

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #47 on: December 17, 2008, 01:18:17 PM »
Hmmm--I think there are many confusions around the terminology and the construction. Who knows just exactly what is being reported, and with what kind of how-wound coil? I would think that the fact that inductive pickup can be demonstrated in the TBC, would also imply that LL holds true as well. But perhaps not.
I now have a suitable driver/amplifier for the coil magnetic field testing, thanks to groundloop and gotoluc.
Why don't you see if you can come up with some specific parameters for your pendulum experiment, that will be able to compare the TBC with the pancake. The driver circuit is configured to produce a 50 percent duty cycle square pulse, at whatever frequency is reasonable, when clocked from a signal generator. But I can probably figure out a way modify the duty cycle and how to trigger it from a Hall sensor or optical commutation or deconvolved modified pings...whatever those are.

Offline 0c

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #48 on: December 17, 2008, 03:39:38 PM »
I agree, there are many wild and unfounded claims out on the internet. The purpose of some of these tests is to verify or disprove those claims. I'm only focusing on magnetics here. I have seen claims that a TBC:

1) creates a more intense magnetic field than a spiral pancake coil for a given input power. I don't recall whether this applies to DC, pulsed DC, or only AC.

- The first tests with DC or pulsed DC are designed to check the validity of this statement and to see if there are any interesting differences in the magnetic intensity or the shape of the magnetic field.

2) shows very little or no Lenz Law effects.

- A simple pendulum with a magnet at the end in a fixed orientation (N facing down) can be placed so it passes across the coil. The magnet should be smaller than the core diameter. The coil should be shorted or connected through a very small resistance.  If LL holds, the pendulum should hesitate or slow or tend to swing around the core as it approches the center and should meet further resistance after passing the center.

- Flip the coil over so the spiral goes the other direction (CW instead of CCW). Does a coil wound the opposite direction demonstrate any difference in behavior? Magnetic polarity?

- Replace the fixed magnet with a diametrically magnetized cylinder that can spin and change its orientation WRT the coil as it passes over. This is the nonstandard pendulum I mentioned.

- Another variation would be to use a double arm at varying angles between the arms, so they pass over different areas of the coil, in differing magnetic relationships WRT the coil and each other. Both fixed and spinning diametric magnets can be tried.

Note: If a small resistor is used across the coil terminals, the induced voltage can be measured. A Hall sensor can be placed near the core to monitor changes in the magnetic field. A dual trace scope can show the relationships between the two at any moment in time.

0c

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2008, 07:36:03 AM »
Much to do, I see. I think I understand what you are getting at. I would expect one of the other "bifilar" types to behave in a non-LL way, but I think the TBC will respect LL. I'll try to set up the experiment exactly as you describe, only different, as usual.

Meanwhile you may (or may not) be interested in this new video, where I used the TBC as a primary in a Tesla power magnifying system in a replication (partial) of gotoluc's and groundloop's work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tW2g4KinuA

Offline 0c

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2008, 05:55:15 PM »
I'll try to set up the experiment exactly as you describe, only different, as usual.

I tried to give you enough rope to do things your way. Thanks.  ;)

Quote from: TinselKoala
Meanwhile you may (or may not) be interested in this new video, where I used the TBC as a primary in a Tesla power magnifying system in a replication (partial) of gotoluc's and groundloop's work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tW2g4KinuA

Could you provide some references for us ignorant sods that don't know much about gotoluc or groundloop? Just what is the significance of the experiment?

OC

Offline 0c

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #51 on: December 28, 2008, 06:23:05 PM »
As I feared, all the arcs, sparks, and bright lights have got TK hypnotized. All good fun, but it hasn't answered any of the magnetics questions I posed.

Sigh.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #52 on: December 28, 2008, 06:40:44 PM »
Yes, you won't believe what I scored yesterday at Active Surplus. For some reason, they have a bunch of brand new bright and shiny Taiwanese-made hubcaps of the "baby moon" variety. For a buck and a half each!! These are incredible, shiny, smooth, no detail markings. Two together make an ideal capacitative top-load for high-voltage work. I plan to use several of them making table-top Van De Graaff machines to add to my electrostatic zoo. Meanwhile I have taped 2 together to make a beautiful flying saucer-shaped topload for my current (pun intended) set of experiments.

@0c: I guess that, since I'm paying my own salary, I get to choose what I work on, and when. Let's see: So far, in seeking to answer your questions, I have constructed 3 unique coils and pressed a 4th one into service; I have constructed and begun to characterize an appropriate driver/pulser module that is capable of driving what is essentially a dead short, to RMS voltages in excess of 100 V; I've spent time shopping and thinking and studying; and some other stuff like that there. If you want to get sarcastic about any "lack of progress" that you might perceive, perhaps I can go and find something else to work on for a while, while you re-evaluate your attitude toward what I am (or am not) doing.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #53 on: December 28, 2008, 08:34:41 PM »
TK,

I, for one, am enjoying the hell out of what you have shown so far.  Really interesting, IMHO.

It's always possible to get back to the question from which you strayed.  But how much "science" would have been missed if one didn't investigate every unexpected phenomenon one discovers along the way?

Thanks for sharing in such an informative way.

M.

Offline 0c

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #54 on: August 26, 2009, 06:39:10 PM »
I just became aware of a recent and closely related demonstration on youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4A1UUIBDv0

There are a number of differences. I like ZEROPOINT132's approach to spinning a magnet. It's simple and elegant. But it has a problem as well.

The poles tend to orient up and down (watch when he adds the paperclip) instead of towards the coil. My approach had a freely spinning diametrically magnetized magnet mounted on the end of a pendulum and oriented so the poles would spin directly facing the coil, which should produce a spinning field with more oomph per pass.

The experiment in the video uses 2 coils and a reed switch. My experiment uses a Tesla Bifilar Coil. I never considered using 2 coils or a switch. I was mostly thinking about the interaction of the fields WRT the coil and the magnetic behavior of a Tesla Bifilar Coil.

ZEROPOINT132 goes a step further and uses a simple LED to demonstrate the current generation, instead of using a scope to see it. I didn't realize it might generate enough juice to light an LED.

Hats off to ZEROPOINT132!

(TK, you could have been there first.)

Offline X00013

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Re: TinselKoala's Magnetics Workbench
« Reply #55 on: August 27, 2009, 04:58:01 AM »
If TK has magic, I'm OK with that, but if he has unicorns in his back yard I will be so pissed.