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Author Topic: Joule Thief  (Read 6336477 times)

kooler

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15810 on: November 29, 2012, 12:37:53 AM »
gadget and tk
what are u guys calling delay lines.. i may have a bunch..
i strip crt's, tv's, and microwaves, all bunch of of things..
 
robbie

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15811 on: November 29, 2012, 12:45:46 AM »
Hey robbie. I  was looking for the part Tk used . I don't remember replacing one,probably because they never go bad.. thank you anyways . i got lot of junk too ,all stored right now but maybe this winter i'll dig in it now that the snakes are froze:)it going to be 26f tonight . And like you ,down south east ,one mans junk is another mans treasure..
What he has sounds like a mini magnacoaster part :)  here is the delay line i remember . the blue part . the horizontal coil at the bottom right are the ones i remember with a slug in the middle of them to adjust it (we used plastic alignment tools ). they were made of paper with wax with a fat winding on it
Man these things were made to last a life time .And you can stock you parts drawers with them.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 06:09:04 AM by gadgetmall »

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15812 on: November 29, 2012, 01:30:47 AM »
@Nick... thanks, that is a really cool way to handle the batteries. I've been struggling with loose batteries and finally made that little board you see, but for larger or more, I am going to use your excellent system, I think. I've got a bunch of springs that will make ideal inner contacts, too. Thanks!
I'm not sure about directly scaling up from low voltage to 12 volts. I've blown several transistors and load LEDs doing that; you probably will have to adjust the resistance in the base leg of the first transistor and also perhaps the collector currents, and of course use the heatsink especially for the TO-220 devices like the TIP transistor.

@Gadgetmall: You're welcome, it always helps me to redraw the schematic, I pretend I'm electrons (or zipons, whatever) zipping around in there and it helps me to understand what's happening in the circuit. Please check the image over and let me know right away if I've made any errors, so that I can fix them.
I've also shown the choke with its magnets, and the delay line that I mentioned: inside there's a mysterious slab of very thin glass with a couple of attach points , indium solder plated I think, from the four pins on the bottom. That is all, no other components in there at all. I have no clue what it is supposed to do or how it operates, and I couldn't figure it out from the website either. I've seen delays like the one in your _ancient_ TV.... that brings back memories for sure. Discrete components! No, the TVs I've taken apart recently have been modern, last-generation CRT types that people just chuck when they upgrade to a modern HDTV with a flatpanel screen. Circuit boards, lots of ICs, lots of good electrolytic caps, the nice rectified output flybacks, etc.
Do you have 4 ea. 2n1749 motorola germanium transistors? If so.... let's make a deal! I might be able to get a better DC balance on the RM503 if I had a new set of preamp transistors for the old thing.

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15813 on: November 29, 2012, 01:38:32 AM »
Tk . Yes that is perfect ! that is what i got .. I think most transformers no matter the ratio will work just need some on eto verify i am not going nuts here . i am astounded by the circuit and the little modifications i did . I am on my third replication . had to call it a night working on the  . I have two running  and just check they are on the rise ! .

One thing . to get rid of my capacitor box i placed several 67pf's parallel . 3 of them to get that "balance" better . so i think 220pf worked and also  .0001 

this is the only bulb that lit that i use http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-5W-7-SMD-Warm-White-E27-New-Style-LED-Light-Bulb-Lamp-220V-/160907486635?pt=US_Light_Bulbs&hash=item2576d565ab

and this is the audio transformer i wound like a big Fuji xformer . I  think a fuji transformer might also work here also . I want to try it tomorrow when my eyes rest . I got a germanium board ready for it and a super cap as a battery on it in parallel with another 10000uf . I want to see if it need chemical batteries to cause this thing to keep charging . unreal .
In the pic are the diodes , the red clip and black wire went to the cap box but now it is replaced  and boxed up . I will disturb it tomorrow sometime and check it again . The Led bulb is about 20 to 30 percent lite so it is Ghostly lit. but is lighting 7 smd leds in there and is a night light .


Yea you got some weird parts there . I never seen them before. must be to "modern" for me and probably on a module i think .


Thank you !

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15814 on: November 29, 2012, 03:13:55 AM »
My pleasure.

Here's another weirdness I just noticed.... and that cost me another white LED.  If I hook one end of a green LED to my scope ground probe, and the other end to the Earth ground, the green LED glows just barely perceptibly, almost not noticeable but definitely there if you look. Either orientation, same thing, proving AC.
But if I do the same thing with the White LED..... I get a dim flash, then nothing.... and the LED is ruined, but neither open nor short.... it measures 10-25 ohms, same value in both directions. I've accidentally done this to several white LEDs, I now realize, and that's where the 10-25 ohm range comes from. Of course it gives no more light.

I just found my last TIP3055 in the box, it's unused, and I have plenty of unused 2n2222a, and a few 1n60 and 1n34a diodes. Have to look around for the 100 pF cap though... and no good NiCads, but some good NiMH cells. So I'll be busy tonight....
 ;D

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15815 on: November 29, 2012, 05:26:56 AM »
Cool . Like i said you can gang some caps together to get it dimmer and then it charges . .Wow my nicad is now 13.03 volts . One Note for you . when you attach a meter lead on the pos the light gets brighter thus the voltage drops . Another weird thing is the negitive lead when touched with a meter probe the light gets dimmer and the voltage increases . So what i do it let it run without the meter attached after the initial increase and later hook it up briefly now . it is getting more sensitive as the battery increase ..

I'll dig thru My lot of germaniums tomorrow when the ole eyes can see clear and see if  we have those for you


Edit yes was typo  1.303 ..
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 12:23:04 PM by gadgetmall »

hoptoad

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15816 on: November 29, 2012, 06:16:52 AM »
snip..
Wow my nicad is now 13.03 volts .
snip..
Is that a small typo, should it be 1.303 volts. ? Or are you running your circuit from a 12 volt battery instead of a 1.2 volt battery ?

Cheers

hoptoad

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15817 on: November 29, 2012, 06:38:49 AM »
snip...
Mine has climbed to 1.272 from 1.228 and still rising . Not much light on 8 led 220 bulb but the amazing thing is it is a COLD circuit like really colder than the room if i shoot it with a laser thermometer. The other ones ran a few degrees above ambient .
snip....
This is one of the most interesting paragraphs I've read on this forum since 2007. If there is no mistake in your observations, then both the rising battery voltage and below ambient running temperature, pose a very interesting combined phenomenon worthy of serious investigation.
Cheers

hartiberlin

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15818 on: November 29, 2012, 07:23:47 AM »
Well done Gadget. Looking forward to see more clear videos from you.
Please use a tripod and explain all in detail.
Could also be a longer video if you wish.

@TK,
maybe you should always put preresistors in front of your LEDs and you
your transistors and diodes, so you don´t blow them up....

Also it would be interesting to see to put a "freewheel" at least 1 Watts LED across the primary of the transformer ,(better together in series with a 10 Ohm resistor) to see, how big the Back-EMF spike is there...

Would be also interesting to see scopeshots of the latest circuit from Gadget at all points of the circuit to nail things down.

Sorry, got sidetracked with programming and Wordpress plugins, so experimentation will
start again, when Lasersaber has posted an update movie of his circuit.


Regards, Stefan.

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15819 on: November 29, 2012, 07:47:53 AM »
Ah, resistors, they waste power..... but really I've been lucky, I've only blown a few components, not nearly as many as some!  And you have to admit that my components fail in interesting ways....
Sometimes I can even find all the pieces!

I'm uploading a different codec (xvid) compression version of that last "scoping the line" video, Stefan, by your suggestion .... twice as large filesize, estimated 40 minutes for the upload or longer.... I hope it's worth it in quality. If it is, I'll use that from now on unless I'm in a hurry.

rensseak

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15820 on: November 29, 2012, 08:01:48 AM »
I'm uploading a different codec (xvid) compression version of that last "scoping the line" video, Stefan, by your suggestion .... twice as large filesize, estimated 40 minutes for the upload or longer.... I hope it's worth it in quality. If it is, I'll use that from now on unless I'm in a hurry.

@TinselKoala

Where Stefan did suggest it?
I will give you a good tool for compression vidos for youtube and this is handbrake , it make high compression with nearly no loss and youtube do not change it. Sincerely

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15821 on: November 29, 2012, 08:13:30 AM »
Hi TinselKoala,

Your above idea reminds me a circuit from Jean-Michel Cour where his goal was to discharge a puffer cap into a battery at determined voltage levels of the puffer cap, see here: http://www.google.com/patents/US20070222411  (he got the patent on it too: US 7928700)

I think you can change that circuit to your exact needs. The patent text includes the complete operation with component values

Gyula
I forgot to thank you for this. Yes....  ironically the top part of the Drawing Page 2 depicts just exactly what I had in mind, using an op amp as comparator switching a mosfet... I'm going to have to think about the rest of the circuit to understand it. Thanks again!

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15822 on: November 29, 2012, 08:22:52 AM »
@TinselKoala

Where Stefan did suggest it?
I will give you a good tool for compression vidos for youtube and this is handbrake , it make high compression with nearly no loss and youtube do not change it. Sincerely
In a comment on the video. Thanks, I've heard of handbrake, I'll install it and try it right away.

ETA: Ok, with Handbrake to the default settings it makes a filesize of about 177 MB in .m4v format. It looks perhaps slightly better in fullscreen here on the computer directly than the Xvid conversion by WinFF at 108 MB.  I have uploaded the WinFF version to YT, and I'll upload the Handbrake version after a while. I haven't watched the YT version yet but I'm sure it's got to be a lot better than my first version.

Thank you both for the suggestions!
--TK

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15823 on: November 29, 2012, 12:20:21 PM »
Holy crap . I am up 6:18 and that little circuit is putting out over 1.535  Instantaneously and the light got brighter  and it is setting 1.466  On a Nicad ? Man . Chills// and yea it is 21 degrees F  outside . everything is froze ,even my flags . Crystal clear and the moon looks like the sun . Beautiful day for light and playing with circuits inside.

I hope this battery don;t short out like My skinless battery did . It also rised and now i know a night of running will carry a cell over 1.5 volts . Old batteries just die especially Nicads if the over charge . But anyways i am getting Great results . Moray ? I need to mount this stuff . It is sitting in a plastic box soldered . My box is way to big so i will wait when i have a smaller one i think .

Stephan , Yes resistors are a nono  in this circuit as they kill whatever is happening . Running from a CAp/Nicad this circuit has exceeded any previously project . It is repeatable guys . Just do it and you will see. It may work with a 12 volt system . I don;t know and won;t find out as i need my transistors so i willl stay at single cell for now . I can do pretty much anything anyone can with an aa powered unit . The lS3 runs real Power from a C cell and i have a video there to prove that  I Am not good anymore making videos with Movie maker . It takes too much time ..but i can do it later on after someone else makes this . I replicated it so it is doable for others to try . This is a real Charge not static . I just tested the battery with a different meter and loaded it is a solid 1.310  . this would be close to an 8 hour charge on my 110 volt battery charger . All the nicads i have settle below this over night . plus this battery was just laying around for awhile and it was on it's way to 1.1 volts .. I am dizzy with prospects of integrating this fix in My Pocketpower+

hoptoad . yes sir i put t5he decimal in the wrong place . Running a nicad here and it is more than exciting to see this happening  . The circuit likes to be left alone and i don't know even if it can be scoped . Every thing external on the circuit changes it . leads act like antennas and change the output . I think it needs a special apparatus to inductively couple any leads without actually touching it . Any suggestions  as to what that might be?

Well getting coffee in me . I tried a germanium and darlington last night on a small coil i wound on a small ferrite rod about an inch and could not get the basic crossover to work so i an working on that trying different transistors i have .. The MpSa14 is a straight darlington and i wold have thought it would work for the primary exciter .. testing ..

Drafted Schematic by -Jesus. Thank you Jesus you are Great!
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 02:24:07 PM by gadgetmall »

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15824 on: November 29, 2012, 03:07:24 PM »
I have got a new tiny coil i made lighting a green led running on caps . there is a balance , it uses the same setup as before except NO battery . I am using a new transistor setup with  germanium transistor2n1605 with a darlington(mpsa14 as the primary transistor and 1000uf cap and one tiny super cap 1farad .the circiut is charged to 1.5 volts . it is holding up @ 1.65 so far the cap before the second diode is almost exactly the same as before where this circuit begins to charge itself . More experimenting and experimenters should look into this . I am overwhelmed at what i am seeing . I can't begin to explain it . No ground no antenna. the only antenna might be the wire but it's short wire. this is My third replication running.  I need some more good led bulbs like i use in the first circuit. I have to put a resistor in series with  the green clear led to make the circuit work . Once started the led lights and the feedback circuit goes to work .

Edit : it's 10 am and this little tiny coil blew white leds in series . I touched the circuit across the leds and they lit super bright shorting them out . New set on there . this darlington seems to work nice down to about .96 volts . This is where it blew leds. I ditched the green for a brighter lights . amazing me. I also have a resistor sub box and the leds need resistance to get that "balance" and light More later ...

uploading a short clip of my 3rd self charging selfrunning circuit posted . I made this coil last night from a piece of ferrite rod from a computer power supply . I just put one layer of #36 fine tesla wire as the secondary(a drop of super glue to hold the first few turns and the last turn) then used # 26 bell wire 11 turns with a remainder of 4 more wraps to play with . ended up 15 turn primary .. it appears any coil will work as this is My third replication and all three are self charging . the difference in this one is it is running on caps and charging them running two white leds. I love tiny circuits that work especially one that can blow an led in a instant off 1 volt . I will let this one run while i go to the store ..
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 04:38:15 PM by gadgetmall »