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Author Topic: Joule Thief  (Read 6334618 times)

Hoppy

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15690 on: November 23, 2012, 02:01:41 PM »
Hi all,

I have built lasersaber's circuit and am having good results. My coil is wound on a ferrite 'E'-core from an old PC PSU and I have 20 turns 0.5mm ECW on primary and 250 turns of 0.3mm ECW on secondary. Transistors are TIP3055 and MPSA06. A little help is needed to start a 3W LED lamp by touching the base of the MPSA06. However, a 7W lamp starts without help. Connecting the rectifier as shown on the schematic stops the oscillations and the lamp extinguishes. It may be that lasersaber has drawn the connections incorrectly. Surprisingly, the transistors run very cool with a good light output. I have not been able to connect a scope as connecting the ground lead will stop the circuit oscillating. Even touching my DMM probes to the 12V / 7A/hr SLAB supplying the circuit will cause the lamp to flicker. Connecting an earth ground does not appear to affect brightness of the lamp but it does make the circuit run without any high frequency noise. Disconnecting the battery does not allow my circuit to continue running for more than a few seconds with a 10,000uF cap connected. I can get the lamp to pulse at very low brightness for a longer period if I touch the positive battery lead when its been removed.

The battery has been rising in voltage for the last hour and is now running steady at 12.76V. This is a characteristic I have seen with other JT type circuits running at HF. I expect it to start dropping at some stage once it adjusts fully to the load. If not then I'll be back to report the good news!  :)

This generous helping from lasersaber appears to be running very efficiently as is well worth building and experimenting with.

Hoppy

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15691 on: November 23, 2012, 04:13:00 PM »
I am glad i am not the only one seeing this . I got real tired of getting shocked even with 1.2 volt battey so i decided to try another transformer . He did say it would work with any transformer . so i went to my junk pile outside and grabbed a rusty transformer . it looks like a 110 to 24 vac .. I hooked it up and wala . it works but is very dim on 5 volts . If i touch the laminations it gets brighter . Also it flickers . AND the battery volts moves up even with an analog meter while it runs . So it will work with a normal transformer and you do still see the effects. I see no high voltage BUT i still do see one wire type lighting .Without the Magic variable, his transformer , i think we won't see any cap runner  this time either. But as with the original joule ringer i spent months trying to get it to work and could not, i am not that disappointed and will keep trying . Laser has more info coming and maybe some tips on that transformer . I guess i need to ask Santa if he can spare some alligator clips and another lot of 2n3055's. I have blown 15 playing with his circuits and i have two on some good ls3's i will not mess with .If anyone care to see that rusty transformer run a light it is uploading on my slow 512k internet.

Hoppy

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15692 on: November 23, 2012, 05:16:08 PM »
I am glad i am not the only one seeing this . I got real tired of getting shocked even with 1.2 volt battery so i decided to try another transformer . He did say it would work with any transformer . so i went to my junk pile outside and grabbed a rusty transformer . it looks like a 110 to 24 vac .. I hooked it up and wala . it works but is very dim on 5 volts . If i touch the laminations it gets brighter . Also it flickers . AND the battery volts moves up even with an analog meter while it runs . So it will work with a normal transformer and you do still see the effects. I see no high voltage BUT i still do see one wire type lighting .Without the Magic variable, his transformer , i think we won't see any cap runner  this time either. But as with the original joule ringer i spent months trying to get it to work and could not, i am not that disappointed and will keep trying . Laser has more info coming and maybe some tips on that transformer . I guess i need to ask Santa if he can spare some alligator clips and another lot of 2n3055's. I have blown 15 playing with his circuits and i have two on some good ls3's i will not mess with .If anyone care to see that rusty transformer run a light it is uploading on my slow 512k internet.

We need efficient ferrite core transformers to get good efficiency from this circuit. My measured voltage across the lamp is 120V and current drawn from the 12V battery as measured across a 0.1R shunt resistor in series with the battery is 0.46A. The only thing getting very warm is the LED lamp ali shroud, so this tells me that the circuit is working at very good efficiency. Ideally, I need more turns to increase the output voltage on load using a 7W lamp, as I'm on 240V over here in the UK.

I can't see any free energy here yet but lasersabre has certainly come up trumps with this design for efficient lighting.

Hoppy

hartiberlin

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15693 on: November 23, 2012, 05:47:23 PM »
 Sorry, could not sleep last night , nor did I know that Lasersaber celibrated Thanksgiving holiday.

I just saw that I made an error.
I thought the 2 transistors were just wired as a darlington, so I connected both collectors together in my circuit ..

No wonder it did not really work for me...

 Well,
My circuit just blinks for about 2 second while discharging the cap from 12 to 5 Volts
but then stops at around 4.5 Volts.

Have to get the 3055 transistor and 2N2222 to continue...
My darlington MJE1100 seems not to work with this circuit.....

I also think we have to wait for Lasersaber confirming the circuit diagram first and
also tell us more about his transformer.

Otherwise it is hard to replicate.

I also have to get first the right parts as with my parts it does not work the same way...

Have to do some family related stuff over the weekend, so not much time to tinker, too bad, sorry...

Regards, Stefan.
 

NickZ

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15694 on: November 23, 2012, 06:03:42 PM »
  I'm using a ferrite bead rod core (4 beads) as the transformer, and connecting  the secondary HV output side to a previously made smaller 3 inch ferrite rod core secondary coil, to increase the HV output. This will light any neon or Cfl, florescent tube, etz.  But, If the bulb is disconnected, the whole secondary part of the circuit is acting as an Exciter, with wireless up to 15 inches away from the coils. Even wireless on the neon av plug up to two inches away.
  I really think that all that Lasersaber is seeing in the cross over circuit, is the capacitive link from the AC wiring side from his solar system's panels, leaching through to the cross-over circuit..  If the solar panels are disconnected the light bulb will also go out.  As this is then just acting as an Exciter, working off of the stray capacitive link from his solar system.
 His transformer is using that small leached power source and amplifying the voltage, to light an led bulb.  But, if the solar system is turned off or disconnected, the cross-over circuit will stop working, at least that is what I think. Easy enough to prove, also. just turn off the solar arrays at the shed.

  Here is video I made a few months ago, showing my Exciter running off of NO battery.
  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xur_VChGdzE
                                                                        Turn your volume up, as this camara's sound is low.


Djoko

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15695 on: November 23, 2012, 06:31:34 PM »
Hi all,

I'm using 10 mm ferrite rod with 90 turn primary  920 secondary, BC338 + 3055, 12 V batt and 3 Watt LED bulb. I test it in 2 configuration (SJR 3.0 and JRC/O) by swaping one end of wire of LED to the collector as SJR 3.0 and to the base of small transitor as JRC/O. I found 1 Amp. on the SJR 3.0 config and 350 mA on the JRC/O. There is no change in the LED brightness on the both configuration.

rgd
Djoko
 

scratchrobot

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15696 on: November 23, 2012, 07:32:20 PM »
I made the circuit with a normal 220v>12v transformer and was just playing with it, i didn't know my capacitior could make sound  :)
Without the battery it works very long when touching the -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8KCxCj7Do


gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15697 on: November 23, 2012, 09:33:43 PM »
I made the circuit with a normal 220v>12v transformer and was just playing with it, i didn't know my capacitior could make sound  :)
Without the battery it works very long when touching the -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_H8KCxCj7Do


Some people just got it . Nice job ! you got it !

My rusty xformer is no where near that .

http://youtu.be/Zz1OkuYdei8
« Last Edit: November 23, 2012, 10:40:17 PM by gadgetmall »

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15698 on: November 23, 2012, 10:47:15 PM »
Yes.... there is something very strange going on. This circuit caused me to check the voltage between my good Earth ground and the house wiring. Using the Fluke 83 DMM on AC voltage setting, I get a rock-steady 57.4 VAC between the Earth ground and the ground leads of my test equipment!! There is no "current" available though, it will just barely light a green LED to a slightly visible glow. Scoping the "earth ground" as a signal source I get a beautiful sine wave at 60 Hz, p-p around 150V.
My Earth ground is a 4-foot copper pipe driven into the damp ground underneath a window air conditioner (yes, we still run AC in November in South Texas).
I don't think there's actually a wiring fault in the house, it's been checked several times but I'm going to have to check it again.

The circuit I built, exactly from the diagram, including the bridge, behaves very strangely. I am seeing all the weird effects people have noted above, but I have no HV anywhere. Touching the Earth ground to various places makes the (normal small white single) LED glow brilliantly, and I also get the noises and the phenomenon of the LED glowing dimly or even moderately for a _long_ time when one battery lead is disconnected and fingers placed on the collector or the LED anode or even the "extra" wire for the core.
I get the most interesting results with the core wire connected to the LED anode, then just stroking this with the Earth ground lead to start oscillations, then leaving the Earth ground disconnected.

I've been using 1 to 3 volt batteries and sometimes a 5 volt regulated bench supply.... this latter is _very interesting_ because the LED will glow if I simply hold the output clips in my fingers, both or either one, and touch the usual spots in the circuit... the case of the 2222 is a good spot... while the Earth ground is hooked to the base of the 2222 or to the LED anode.

There is definitely some interaction with the house wiring, through instruments plugged into the line, and even by the body's pickup, and the Earth ground is key to this.

It is very hard to scope this circuit! Hooking the ground probe to the "normal" places kills it, as also reported above. By just randomly probing around I finally got some signals without killing it.... and they are very weird. Like a slow square wave, but on the top of each cycle, a set of 5 or six "spindles". I'll try to get a photo later today.... this thing is really puzzling me.

I am still unsure as to just what circuit is being talked about by most people, though. If you "remove the bridge"... what's left, how is it wired... and how are people getting HV?

My transformer is probably not to spec, I used a TV inductor similar to the one in my NE-2 JT but larger and containing a magnet, that had about 40 turns of heavy wire, and I wound 300 or so turns of #27 on top of that, and covered it with 5-minute epoxy to secure the windings.

lasersaber

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15699 on: November 23, 2012, 11:12:52 PM »
@TinselKoala


It sounds like you got it!  I have spent all day working and taking power measurements on this little circuit!  I have made some serious progress.  I will post a new video shown showing the complete setup and how to wire it soon.  I will also be posting an updated schematic on LaserHacker forum soon.


Quote
There is definitely some interaction with the house wiring, through instruments plugged into the line, and even by the body's pickup, and the Earth ground is key to this.


Today I unplugged the extension cord that runs out to my workshop.  My workshop is about 100' from my house wiring.  I worked all day off the grid in there and saw all the same effects using an antenna connected to my shed roof.  I have no power lines or radio station nearby so this is pretty amazing!

gadgetmall

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15700 on: November 23, 2012, 11:57:27 PM »
Wow. all i can say is WOW. now you all got me started again . I am winding a new coil !

NickZ

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15701 on: November 24, 2012, 12:08:56 AM »
   Quote:
   " I worked all day off the grid in there and saw all the same effects using an antenna connected to my shed roof".

   Is your solar panel system also disconnected? 
   What current reading are you seeing. Is this just a voltage reading with no current?

   NickZ


Magluvin

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15702 on: November 24, 2012, 12:13:29 AM »
How much voltage lives in the 10,000 uf cap during these disconnected operations?

Mags

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15703 on: November 24, 2012, 12:58:23 AM »
@lasersaber..... I'm not sure just what I've got! I hope you don't mind, I've named your circuit the "GhostLight" because of the way the LED will stay on dimly for so long with stuff disconnected, and how the circuit seems "haunted" sometimes. Spooky noises and everything, weird vibrations, tingling spines
.
I am using this term to refer to the schematic Stefan posted yesterday, with the bridge and the extra wire....

I still can't seem to find the HV but I did get all the other effects, as I noted before.

And also, my transformer is different so that might be why no HV for me... yet.

After I saw scratchrobo's video and thought about Hoppy's post a bit, I went ahead and removed the bridge from the GhostLight circuit and made another change or two... and got the thing working well as a low-voltage JT... but with a twist.

I've blown 2 x 2n2222 transistors and a white LED since starting with this thing, but not the 3055 yet. Have had some hot transistors when running on the 5v supply, but now  I think I've got this version stable.

Next will be to try to get a transformer more like the spec, and keep searching for the HV that is in there somewhere.

Here's a video I just shot..... a gang of thieves!
Still uploading, will be done in a few minutes.
http://youtu.be/LQe0In73pbY

TinselKoala

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Re: Jule Thief
« Reply #15704 on: November 24, 2012, 01:05:50 AM »
@Mags.... last night when I was getting the disconnected "ghost light" effect with the Earth ground and the dim LED for a long long time, I finally determined that there has to be some charge on the cap for it to work. If the cap is discharged by making some other contact somewhere, the light goes out and can't be brought back until some charge is put back on the cap. I think the energy in the cap is powering the light and the energy "from the Earth ground" is "enabling" or triggering the base current enough to start oscillations and drain the cap thru the LED.
I think in my case that it's the very small current between the Earth ground and the EM field of the house line wiring, coupled capacitatively thru my  body.
I don't know how big this cap voltage must be because when I try to meter it, it kills the effect, and because of the interaction with the house wiring I can't even scope it properly.

I have not taken things outside yet, but I'd have to go pretty far to get away from ambient fields, I'm in the middle of a residential 'hood with wires everywhere.

Now all of this has to be taken with a grain of salt because my transformer isn't right yet. But I definitely get the Ghost Light.