Author Topic: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods (Read 266733 times)

Magluvin · « **Reply #210 on:** April 09, 2014, 03:33:43 AM »

Hey Marius

Nice setup.

I see the coil is in the middle of the center pole of the Ecore. Can you slide it closer toward the rotor and test? Its that open side exposure of the coil that gets cut by the magnets field. So the closer to the rotor the coil is, the more flux that is able to cut it.

Like if your core were say 6in tall, laying sideways as it is, the further out the coil is, the less output you should get.

Thats a big core. Try a smaller one if you can, where the core thickness is less between the magnet and coil. Or larger magnets for that particular core/coil.

Mags

Magluvin · « **Reply #211 on:** April 09, 2014, 03:45:19 AM »

As the rotor magnet approaches the core, the field of the magnet is attracted to the core, so as the mag gets closer to the core, the mags field bends more in that direction. So a lot of the flux from the mag may not even cut the coil because it is being absorbed by the part of the core that is closest to the magnet.

So a larger magnet or a smaller core/coil will ensure more flux cutting the coil producing more output.

Mags

Magluvin · « **Reply #212 on:** April 09, 2014, 03:54:19 AM »

Sorry. One more thing to try. Turn the core/coil, from the top view, 90deg so the coil is exposed closer to the rotor.

Mags

mariuscivic · « **Reply #213 on:** April 09, 2014, 09:10:45 PM »

Hi guys!

Mags:

I did turn the coil as you sugested and there is voltage. More than before.
At 2000rpm there is 12V after the FWBR. A 450uF/50V cap charges up to 22V but not very fast (4-5seconds).
This is new to me:
-with a normal core-coil there is small difference at FWBR between the voltage with the cap or without the cap
-with the E shape core-coil the voltage doubles just by adding a cap.
My probe from the scope (mini-dso) is dead and cant see the waves.( Is more than a year that i'm looking for a new one but no one has it here in romania)
The bad news is that there is poor curent and lenz is still there, no mather what load is conected (even when charging the 450uF cap)

Dieter:

That's the only thing that I didn't try (the cap in series with the coil) but now is late and tomorow (like any normal working day) my weakup is at 4:45am

.
Things to try more:
-thiker wire
-bigger E cores (must buy first)
-stronger magnets

It will be nice if someone would replicate the E shape core-coil and see if the results match:
-relative normal output voltage
-really small curent
-and offcourse a bit of lenz

dieter · « **Reply #214 on:** April 09, 2014, 09:34:49 PM »

Magluvin,

The coil being near the PM is in fact a way to increase the efficiency. But with more efficiency comes also more braking lorentz force. Please revisit my prev. comment about the E core, deflecting the back magnetomotive force (being manifested as lorentz force), it is a fascinating thought! It does the same what the BiTT does, but in a motor! So, it's perfect, the coil pole facing the PM and the outer core legs far away from the PMs. The PMs may be a little bigger.

Gotta confess, I even don't know if this is driven by a pulse, like a bedini or adams motor, but for harvesting the output that doesn't matter, except maybe the PM arrangement: in a pulse motor it may be easier to use all PMs north pole outside, although alternating poles will increase the output and are standard for generators.

Anyway, you will bridge rectify the output and you should use schottky diodes (fast up to 1ghz switching, also low loss, low voltage drop). After them you should use a 100 to 200 v capacitor to harvest efficently any voltage peaks.

The reason why a Bedini motor is so effective is not the fwd current, delivered by the output coils, but in fact the rather high voltage back emf. The more sudden the pulse current stops in the output coil, the better the back EMF.

If pulse coils are separated from output coils then simply rectify the output. If the coils are used for both, you may use a schottky diode from the coil back to the source in parallel to your pulse trigger system, eg. reed switch or hall switch/Transistor combo.

If the system runs from a rechargable battery then these back feeded pulses may recharge the battery at runtime, although, in the Bedini system the charging battery and the driving battery should be separate units.

Anyway, thank you for giving me the inspiration for this E core Back mmf deflection, it's a fascinating concept. Have you been aware of it?

Regards

dieter · « **Reply #215 on:** April 09, 2014, 10:00:05 PM »

Just one more thing:
You have to prevent the magnetic field to avoid the middle core leg. This could happen when a load (like a amp meter) will reduce it's permeability compared to the outer legs. Then 90% of the flux would go trough the outer legs. result: low current induced.

The (unfort. rather complicated) solution may be: while the current is induced (PM passes by), have no load on the coil, but a load on two additional coils around the outer legs. Then, when the field collapses, switch them, so the middle coil has now current flow, although back emf only, and the outer coils have no load. Transistors may be used to switch.

In fact, the more I think about it, the more variables I see, so this allows for a lot of challenging experimentation.

PS. BTW. Neodym PMs don't work well, better use less strong ceramic, like barium-ferrite or similar, they have a better field spread. Bedini says so, and my experience with adams motors is the same.

Magluvin · « **Reply #216 on:** April 10, 2014, 01:51:07 AM »

Hey Marius

Lenz. So when the coil is loaded the motor slows down?

Here is a vid of using an ecore as the large inductance in Teslas "Igniter for Gas Engines that I did some time back. This was after my Orbo experiments. The ecore inductor acted like an orbo, while charging a cap for the drive coils, as in when the ecore inductor was conducting, the core would allow the rotor to pass the core after being attracted to it. Timing.

In my case anyway. Try the ecore in different positions around the rotor. Not sure if it will help here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2MwBg33D80

There are other vids of mine before and after this one that show more.

Mags

mariuscivic · « **Reply #217 on:** April 10, 2014, 10:23:41 PM »

Hi

At the right distance, the coil is not seen by the rotor. The load is small but never happened this before with a normal core/coil. I will do that again with my ''one point touch shaft-rotor'' to eliminate the bearings and see the results.
Now we have this:
12V/118mA input
1.7V output over the led
2300 rpm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4hOlUzrY4I&feature=youtu.be

hanon · « **Reply #218 on:** January 02, 2015, 11:24:03 PM »

Hi all,

These are very interesting videos about BUCKING COILS used to avoid the Lenz effect as exposed in hyiq.org site:

http://youtu.be/Z-V1z2TdQJA ( based in this pdf: "Guidelines to Bucking Coils" in hyiq.org --> http://www.hyiq.org/Downloads/Guidelines%20to%20Bucking%20Coils.pdf )

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcks2fcpHUk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTykNjDD0CM (this video is just to get the idea. I think with this wiring the resulting voltage will be null, but I think with one coil CW and the other CCW with an intermediate wiring connection to extract the induced voltage. )

I hope to be helpful.

Surely all this was used by Garry Stanley in his anti-lenz coils ( http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/5911-garry-stanley-pulse-motor.html )

kmarinas86 · « **Reply #219 on:** March 25, 2015, 06:56:33 AM »

There is the tendency to conserve the magnetic moment of the magnetic field. It applies to situations where there are conductors.

http://www.capca.ucalgary.ca/wdobler/publications/preprints/MagneticMoment.pdf

Quote

It is shown that the magnetic moment (mu) is a conserved quantity not only in MHD, but also in general electrodynamics under certain not very restrictive conditions. The propagation of magnetic moment from a region D with an evolving current system (e. g. due to dynamo action) is discussed for the two cases of vacuum and a conducting medium, respectively, surrounding D. In the case of vacuum, the MHD approximation no longer holds and the weak electromagnetic wave emitted from D is important, as w as pointed out by Sokoloff (1997). In the case of an unbounded conducting medium, the classical denition of (mu) is generalised and (mu) is shown to propagate diffusively, undisturbed by the newly generated magnetic field.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_moment

Quote

The magnetic moment may be considered to be a vector having a magnitude and direction. The direction of the magnetic moment points from the south to north pole of the magnet. The magnetic field produced by the magnet is proportional to its magnetic moment.

Now, with Lenz' law, the idea is that the change of the magnetic field, or in other texts, the change of magnet flux, is resisted, rather than magnetic moment. My wager that this is the key mistake resulting in the delay of discovering the underlying principle behind "Anti-Lenz" devices.

Consider the S-Motor as an expression of the underlying principle:
http://www.overunity.com/15648/the-s-motor-mechanical-and-ac-power-generator-no-batteries-or-capacitors/

The S-Motor consists of a magnet rotating inside a "rectangular coil" bent into an S shape. When the magnet rotates in the vicinity of the closed copper circuit, there is an induced magnetic moment which opposes the change of the magnetic moment of the magnet. But in the S-motor, unlike in other motors, the induced magnetic moment is split into three levels, upper, middle, and lower magnetic moments, corresponding to the upper, middle, and lower sections of the S, respectively. The magnetic moment in the middle is the reverse of Lenz' law, while the upper and lower magnetic moments follow Lenz' law. Note that all three arise from the same current which flows through different sections of the S-coil. Success of the design depends on the magnetic field of the magnet coupling most strongly to the middle magnetic moment.

MarkE · « **Reply #220 on:** March 25, 2015, 08:11:36 AM »

Anything that one does in a motor that alters the BEMF constant identically alters the torque constant. Absent losses, the electrical power into a motor driving a mechanical load:

E_IN = V_IN * I_IN = w*T*K_BEMF/K_TORQUE.

As long as K_TORQUE = K₁*K_BEMF, you can design any K_BEMF you like and the motor remains a motor, the generator remains a generator: under unity energy conveyances between electrical and mechanical power. Any motor-like or generator-like device that would result in surplus output over input would exhibit a K_TORQUE that is not proportional to K_BEMF. That means that one seeking a free energy motor-like or generator-like device has to find a circumstance where Maxwell's equations do not apply.

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Author Topic: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods (Read 266733 times)

Magluvin

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