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Author Topic: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods  (Read 220258 times)

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »
Hi Tao,

Now that I slept on your idea a little, I would like to return to your point 6...

6. So, it is at this moment that the next key thing happens. The power pulse shuts off abrubtly, re-OPEN-ing the power coil. At this same instant, or slightly before, the pickup coil is CLOSED, preferably with a load of some sorts.

So if you close the pickup coil with a load exactly or even a little earlier when the power coil is switched off,  then the collapsing field of the power coil will certainly be 'seen' by the pickup coil, being placed on the same core, right?  If so, then you have to consider the current induced in the pickup coil and its magnetic field thus created, don't you?  How will this induced current/magnetic field affect the operation: in an aiding or in an opposing sense ?
I do not think we can leave this effect out from the operation without any consideration.  Also what I mentioned yesterday on utilizing the flyback pulse across the power coil is to be reconsidered again.

@Steven

Interesting question you ask with point 9.  My understanding is that the speed of the field "coming" from a permanent magnet is at the speed of the light so that the event the flux of the leaving magnet snaps back to the core happens much much quicker than the magnet is leaving. This should mean that the useful flux change in the core is able to induce current in the pickup coil much much earlier than the effect you ask is able to work (the speed of the leaving magnet is some thousand RPM and compare this to c).  So I think the negative effect of the  "moving-away" magnet will be small.

It is sure the power pulse fired into the power coil should be just enough to just counteract the permanent magnets field and I think the pulse duration is of high importance too (must be short enough and with very steep rise and fall times).

Thanks and Best Regards, 
Gyula


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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #45 on: November 23, 2008, 12:23:24 PM »

Offline supermuble

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #46 on: November 23, 2008, 06:36:05 PM »
Gyula, you are right. You can't normally step up power with an inductive kick back (back EMF). It is just a high intensity spark. I did not mean to use the word "power." I meant voltage. Though the fly back voltage contains less power, it does contain higher potential. You can use this potential to "activate" lead acid batteries so they will furnish their own power, so then power is greater from the fly back in this scenario. But of course, I have seen the oscilloscope readings, and the inductive kick back is high voltage, but very short duration so it is not normally useful.

According to Thane Neinz who finds that there is tremendous benefit to using different reluctance materials for a transformer, and according to P. Lindemann who says the best motor or generator is the reluctance type (with varying magnetic reluctance). Anyway I came up with this idea. It may or may not be useful.


Offline Nali2001

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2008, 07:42:46 PM »
Hi, supermuble,
Well about the setup you show, there is no real reason why the field from the magnet will 'go all the way though' the coil section since the field from one polarity will have to return to the other polarity. The field will just leak back to the magnet somewhere along the core. And even if there would be some induction going on, then the leakage will be even worse wince then the coil part will be even less a 'path of least resistance'

Steven


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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #47 on: November 23, 2008, 07:42:46 PM »
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Offline supermuble

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #48 on: November 23, 2008, 07:57:42 PM »
Unless you try it, you cannot be sure. I just tried this same setup, without the arch piece in place. I used a transformer, with an EI core with a passing north/south series of magnets, induction created .225 volts at 1000 rpm, which is about 1/5th of the voltage generated with an open core, but since there is no Lenz drag, there could be a 90% reduction in resistance to spinning the rotor which means you can easily spin the rotor more than 5 times faster.

I can try it with an arch piece, but cutting through a piece of toroid is very difficult with a dremel. I need to get my chop saw out.

Take for example, Thane Heinz transformer that is up to 7000% overunity. You would never believe that this could form a magnetic coupling, but it does. The point is, if you get the rotor spinning very very fast, induction will have to occur, since Farday's law of induction says the rate of change is just as important as the magnetic flux. Increase the speed enough and you should get induction without Lenz's law.

If you have a better idea please show it. My idea is to combine Heinz transformer principles over into the design of a generator. Since generators and transformers both are plagued with Lenz's law, they should both be able to use the same principle to avoid Lenz's law. Both use a moving magnetic flux to create electricity, and remember that flux has no weight, so it should not take any physical force to move it.

Look at the attached pic. Imagine what the flux should do. In real life it only travels in one direction (mostly towards the secondary) so that the force creating the flux never knows it did any work at all, since it is largely unaffected by the secondary magnetic field.

In the picture below, there is no reason at all for the main flux from the primary coil to travel out into the secondary core, but it does.

2nd Revision: I just tested the design with an unmodified toroid attached to a square inductor. There is about 10 times less voltage induced into the core, meaning the flux is staying in the toroid, so it doesn't work at all with a regular toroid. I will try a half circle (cut toroid) when I get the opportunity and compare the difference. It is quite possible that it will not work like you say. 11:27 AM




« Last Edit: November 23, 2008, 08:27:56 PM by supermuble »

Offline hoptoad

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2008, 02:04:38 AM »
Take for example, Thane Heinz transformer that is up to 7000% overunity.
You need to re read Thanes posts about his bi-toroid transformer - very carefully. Far from being 7000% O/U, when you compare the actual output power with the input power, his bi-toroid transformer is much less efficient than an ordinary transformer.

Cheers.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #49 on: November 24, 2008, 02:04:38 AM »
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Offline supermuble

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #50 on: November 24, 2008, 02:06:37 AM »
Really? On a news article it said it was 7000% over unity, and tests were done to prove it? Well I guess I'll go back and re-read everything.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 10:54:39 AM »
Here is somebody from youtube who also has a No Lenz toroidal generator.

He can show it already.

http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bjusticeforever&view=videos

Seems to depend really on all setup parameters like
length of magnets coil length, airgap sizes, etc...

Regards, Stefan.

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #51 on: November 26, 2008, 10:54:39 AM »
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Offline Kator01

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #52 on: November 26, 2008, 01:19:09 PM »
Well, as I see it he is using a closed magnetic-flux. It looks like a flyback-core. Now some guessing about this driver-motor : 500 Watt ?

Output : 2,5 Volt at 10 amps.= 25 Watt

I do not think a 500 Watt-Motor will slow down noticable by just 5 % load of it nominal power.

We have to invite that person to Thanes topic..

Regards

Kator01

Offline supermuble

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2008, 08:39:11 PM »
If you notice in the video above, if you remove the toroid core, there is still no way you can have effective drag caused by Lenz's law. If the magnets are spaced in a NSNSNS configuration, then there is no Lenz's law.

Imagine that the magnet pulling away from the coil of wire is a south magnet. It will try to create an opposing field (north) in the left side of the coil. On the right side of the coil, a north magnet is approaching and is trying to create an opposing field (north). Two sides of the coil are equally trying to create a north field.... How can this have a Lenz's law effect? It can't. It is the same concept exactly as the Bedini-Cole window motor.

It appears that magnet spacing and configuration as well as the layout of the wire is easily adjusted to remove Lenz's law. Proof is in the Bedini-Cole window motor videos.

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #53 on: November 26, 2008, 08:39:11 PM »
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Offline sparks

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #54 on: November 26, 2008, 10:25:56 PM »
    What happens if we control the reluctance of the circuit so that as the magnet approaches it begins to flip over magnetic domains. The coils are placed deep in the back iron.  There is going to be a delay as the steel takes it's time spreading the magnetic domains..  By the time the coil current starts flowing and the countering magnet field produced the rotor permanent magnet is long gone.  This doesn't mess with Lenz law it is just a matter of timing.  The below diagram uses some ringing to get into overunity.   Remember this circuit works off of magnetic domain flipping.  What force unsaturates a core?

Offline petersone

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2008, 10:27:06 PM »
Hi all
When ever i try a coil/magnet arrangement to cancel the Lenz effect, the coil gives less juice, when I cancel Lenz completely I get zero juice.Seems I can't get one with out the other!!!
peter

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #55 on: November 26, 2008, 10:27:06 PM »
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Offline bjusticeforever

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #56 on: November 26, 2008, 10:31:17 PM »
It was actually pretty simple....I just shorted out the back EMF (if that's the correct term.) I'm currently in the process of making a more efficient coil than the one in my video that Stefan posted a link to. Once that's accomplished, I'll make several and put them in series to really show the design's effectiveness, and the 'lessened' Lenz drag. I'm also trying to build them in a manner similar to an auto alternator to help lessen the 'cogging' of the rotor.

Sorry, but I don't have a meter to test the motor's amp pull (maybe Santa will bring me one) but I can tell you that the rotor has zero drag (other than the magnets) when spun by hand. Also, I've witnessed first-hand the effect of Lenz on a motor driving an alternator when it shuts down.....It comes to a immediate halt. This doesn't.

I'm not going to lie to you fellows.....a lot of this is Greek to me.....I have zero background in this stuff and everything I've learned has been self taught. I (sort of) understand the back EMF that causes the push-pull Lenz effect, and that's what spurred me to attempt this. I believe that the back EMF acts exactly like electricity and takes the path of least resistance....so I gave it that path. The real problem was 'balancing' the core to still induce current. I've learned a tremendous amount in the last year about this balance, and it's the key (in my humble opinion!)

I've followed Tesla's work with intense admiration and would love to create a more efficient method of generating power than what's out there for the sake of the environment and for energy costs, too. I'm particularly fond of Tesla's earth-core turbine (I don't remember what the devil it's called) that uses the earth's heat to drive a steam turbine.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted on any success that I have with this project.

Thanks for inviting me, Stefan.

bjustice

Offline supermuble

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #57 on: November 27, 2008, 03:39:31 AM »
Good responses,

I was also thinking that there must be a way to use reluctance, specifically the hysteresis of iron in a unique way that can reduce the effect of Lenz drag. Solid iron takes time to charge and discharge magnetically (hysteresis). I thought if you could make a piece of iron hold onto a magnetic field long enough, it could be used to oppose the force of Lenz's drag. I need to study this more because I don't know much about hysteresis.

"When a ferromagnetic material is magnetized in one direction, it will not relax back to zero magnetization when the imposed magnetizing field is removed. It must be driven back to zero by a field in the opposite direction." This could be very useful with the proper design in a motor, generator or transformer. Sourced from: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/solids/hyst.html

Also it sounds like a piece of solid iron has a transistor effect, read: "The main implication of the domains is that there is already a high degree of magnetization in ferromagnetic materials within individual domains, but that in the absence of external magnetic fields those domains are randomly oriented. A modest applied magnetic field can cause a larger degree of alignment of the magnetic moments with the external field, giving a large multiplication of the applied field." Free electricity, amazing!!! ;D http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/solids/ferro.html#c4

When you try to make electricity without Lenz's law, you can still have Faraday's law of induction, and you can still make current. The catch is, it makes way less power in most configurations. The problem is, the books say you CAN NOT produce ANY CURRENT. They are directly lying! Read about induction and you will see many lies... Just for a reference, I have a Bifilar coil that I've tested extensively. Well if you hook up both windings against each other so they are producing ZERO net magnetic field when power is applied to them, and if you try to generate power on this bifilar coil by rotating a disc with magnets, you get amperage out of it, all this while having the bifilar coil wound against its self so it is NOT an electromagnetic anymore. Since the coil no longer has any external magnetic field that has any effect on the spinning rotor, there is zero Lenz drag. Without Lenz's law you still should make some electrical power in a simple test.







« Last Edit: November 27, 2008, 04:09:52 AM by supermuble »

Offline Kator01

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #58 on: November 27, 2008, 03:27:05 PM »
Hello supermuble,

thank your for the hyperphysics-link - especially this part. Reading further on in the sub-hyperlink :

" Long Range Order In Ferromagnets " you can read :


" When an external magnetic field is applied, the domains already aligned in the direction of this field grow at the expense of their neighbor.If all the spins were aligned in a piece of iron, the field would be about 2.1 Tesla. A magnetic field of about 1 T can be produced in annealed iron with an external field of about 0.0002 T, a multiplication of the external field by a factor of 5000! "

I wonder how to do that. But it is close to what user sparks has tested : it is the returning of this enormeous mag. aligment-energy back to its initial state of domain-disorder.

@sparks : is the Lenz-Kickback involved in certain configurations if you use pulsed DC - eg. saw-tooth with  a slow ascending ramp and fast sudden cutoff which returns the best Kilovolt output in a flyback - what you mean ?

I found the following information on "magentos" - an ignition-system build by Bosch in the 30´s :

http://www.motoruf.de/mo/info/Arbeitsweise_der_Zuendanlage.php ( german website, just look for the pics.

and this here the english version of another Bosch-Related website :

http://histor.ws/dmag/desintro.htm   

Have a look at 2.5 Efficiency at the left side navi-bar

Compare this to our new ignition-systems here :

http://bt-h.biz/terrytweaks.htm

I would like to ask you to help me in doing research on a lecture on magnetos by a person named "Steve Gillis" held in Sursee ( Switzerland) Subject of the conference 2007  : " Revolutionäre Energietechnologien "
( revolutionary energy-technologies )

it was stated that this technique holds a good chance for OU.

I found this statement at a german website :

http://www.secret.tv/category/Technologie_1269.html

Nor further access unless you pay for a video. But there must be a transscript somewhere.

Sorry, folks, about this german stuff but I have the feeling this is very important.

Regrads

Kator01







Kator01


Offline Kator01

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Re: Canceling Lenz's Law - Methods
« Reply #59 on: November 27, 2008, 04:35:13 PM »
Hello Folks,

I found this guy. He is an American living in Germany :

http://www.borderlands.de/net_pdf/NET0907S13-18.pdf

His adress is in this pdf-document.

Also seem to be his website :

http://www.forgotten-genius.com/

May be he is a member here - I do not know.

Regards

Kator01

 

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