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Author Topic: question about water pressure  (Read 3510 times)

Offline loop888

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question about water pressure
« on: November 13, 2008, 01:32:20 AM »
hello fellows, i have a probably stupid question about water pressure.

considering this:

Quote
All directions

The pressure is the same in all directions in a fluid at a given point. This is true because of the characteristic of liquids and gases to take the shape of their container.

(http://www.school-for-champions.com/science/images/fluid_pressure-direction.gif)

it is possible that having a recipient with elastic walls of different areas, one wall pushed another in the oppsite direction?
i found kind of hard to explain my self with words so heres a draw:

(http://img409.imageshack.us/img409/2981/pressurequestiontw8.jpg)

fig 1 = the recipient, where the red lines are the elastic walls and the inner white is air.

fig 2 = under water pressure, and according to my question, the water pressure pushing on the bigger area elastic walls and so displacing the contained air, that push the smaller area elastic wall in the opposite direction.

im sorry if the question is too dumb but doubt is killing me.  ;D

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question about water pressure
« on: November 13, 2008, 01:32:20 AM »

Offline nightlife

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2008, 04:16:07 AM »
 If you pressurize a volume of water from any side and or all sides, the bottom will still have the most pressure due to gravity and you will see that because the air will always be on top regardless of the pressure applied.
 One way to test that is to apply air pressure to the bottom of a pressurized volume of water that has pressure applied from the top. The air will still go to the top.

 Another example would be to squeeze a 2 liter of pop and turn it upside down and watch were the air goes. The outward force on all walls are just magnified when pressure is applied regardless of which way pressure is applied.

Offline loop888

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 01:15:28 AM »
hello, thank you for your answer, but! either i dont understand what you mean or i feel you quite didn't answer my question.

from this:
If you pressurize a volume of water from any side and or all sides, the bottom will still have the most pressure due to gravity ..
i think you maybe refer to this:
(http://www.dkimages.com/discover/previews/759/191562.JPG)

how ever im well aware of that and my question is not about that.

the recipient in my example is summerged lets say at the bottom of a tank filled with water, and under a lot of pressure from that water.

what i want to know if the pressure applied to the bigger area elastic walls would affect the smaller area elastic wall in the opposite direction, as my previously draw (fig 2) examples.

any one??

thank you!!

-------------
by the way, the direction air goes in my example dosnt count, because the recipient well could be pointing the the smaller area elastic wall to the left or down direction.
i know air likes to go up, but in this case air would be contained in a recipient that is being squezed by the water pressure.

i just want to know if the fact the elastic walls have different area makes a difference, as exampled in the draw (fig 2)

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2008, 01:15:28 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2008, 02:30:43 PM »
 I did answer that for you by stating that any pressure applied will only intensify the outward pressure of the volume inside at all points. The example of the fluid coming out of the holes in the can still applies to a closed pressurized container no matter where the pressure is applied. The ratio of pressure stays the same at all points no matter were the pressure is applied.

Offline rlortie

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 03:00:19 AM »
fig 2 = under water pressure, and according to my question, the water pressure pushing on the bigger area elastic walls and so displacing the contained air, that push the smaller area elastic wall in the opposite direction.

Correct!  the pressure applied is PSI pounds per square inch, The area effected is measured by square units. The sides of your container have more area than the top. therefore the sides will push inward and the top will expand outward.

PSI X area = total applied force. The master brake cylinder in your car has more area than the four wheel cylinders it activates. Before the advent of power and disk brakes this master cylinder was of a larger size.   

The buoyancy of a mass is effected by its density and depth or PSI of the surrounding water. A submarine takes on mass in the form of water to submerge, the amount of water taken in dictates the level the sub will maintain. The sub displaces less water when submerged than it does when afloat. If it is setting on the bottom then it is displaced by volume and not density of mass.   

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #4 on: November 17, 2008, 03:00:19 AM »
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Offline loop888

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #5 on: November 17, 2008, 03:40:58 AM »
thank you for your answer rlortie  :)

now, re-reading the nightlife's answer, which i did not understand at all before, i have some shade of doubt about my theory and your answer.

Quote
I did answer that for you by stating that any pressure applied will only intensify the outward pressure of the volume inside at all points.

maybe the pressure in the bigger areas would also push outwards?

rlortie, i think i understad your brake system example, but im not sure if we can compare that with what im asking, because maybe the brake system are separated pressure systems and in my example water (fluid) is only one and pressure applies in the same way all around.   ???

now im more  confussed  :D

any one else???

Offline nightlife

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2008, 05:56:09 AM »
loop888, "maybe the pressure in the bigger areas would also push outwards?"

 I still don’t think you understood what I was saying. Let me try again.

 If you add a pressure to a air tight container, the pressure added will be evenly distributed to the pressure all the walls already have. The walls will first expand outward where they have the least resistance. The least resistant is the center between two resistances.

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #6 on: November 17, 2008, 05:56:09 AM »
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Offline rlortie

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2008, 07:10:56 AM »
loop888,

rlortie, i think i understad your brake system example, but im not sure if we can compare that with what im asking, because maybe the brake system are separated pressure systems and in my example water (fluid) is only one and pressure applies in the same way all around.

yes you can compare it, air like water seeks its own level. It does not matter if it is contained in one container or a multitude of containers, as long as they are interconnected any pressure variance will equalize through out the system.

Take two expandable containers one large and one small, run an air tight  hose between them. push them under water, the small container will start expanding as the area of the large container pushing inward creates more pressure due to the larger area of compression. 

The water increases in PSI the farther you sink it and the air increases in PSI  pushing outward pressure, or psi remains the same in both containers but the smaller one has less area being pressed inward  

Offline loop888

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Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 08:45:14 AM »
Take two expandable containers one large and one small, run an air tight  hose between them. push them under water, the small container will start expanding as the area of the large container pushing inward creates more pressure due to the larger area of compression.

now that image help me so much to understand it, thanks a lot!! :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: question about water pressure
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2008, 08:45:14 AM »
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