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Author Topic: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION  (Read 38174 times)

Offline nightlife

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2008, 04:57:06 AM »
 I was just playing with your idea using some magnets and you may have something. As for the rotor, I think you will need 5 rod magnets that are axially magnetized would work best and it may be best if the ends were rounded.


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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2008, 04:57:06 AM »

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2008, 05:55:25 AM »
I was just playing with your idea using some magnets and you may have something. As for the rotor, I think you will need 5 rod magnets that are axially magnetized would work best and it may be best if the ends were rounded.


  I am going to give this cone shaped 5 arm rotor a try .  By the way if you reversed polaritys on all the rotor arms the cone should twist counterclockwise and "float" at the same time.  The track forces and rotor forces REPEL each other. I already did that using only one long stacked rod magnet centered and north side held above the magnetic box. The lower south end facing the track swings up to a degree(repels) and around.

Tom

Offline TechStuf

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 06:20:24 AM »

Somewhat remeniscent of HJ's linear setup:


(http://www.rexresearch.com/johnson/1fig1.gif)


You've obviously studied the work of various researchers in order to get to this point.  However, in order to achieve a tangential force asymmetry, it appears you will require a method of capitalizing on the field oscillations.


TS 




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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2008, 06:20:24 AM »
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Offline Omega_0

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #18 on: November 16, 2008, 11:26:01 AM »
Are there any videos of it yet ?

Offline gregs78cam

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 02:34:34 PM »
Untill I get my design up and running, I think that I will just try helping other people to refine their designs.  And while I am labelel a "newbie" on here, I think that I can bring some very valuble knowledge to the table.


You have to think about where the fields are going to attract and repel at and you can not have a field that doesn't have a equal amount of both.

Actually yes you can.  You just have to know how to manipulate it.  Search "Halbach Array".  I think it will be the key to making so many of these magnet motors actually work.  Another thing is to always try to make these MM produce movement by attracting rather than repelling.  Over time even when permanent magnets are forced to repel each other they will die.

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #19 on: November 16, 2008, 02:34:34 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #20 on: November 16, 2008, 08:20:50 PM »
Untill I get my design up and running, I think that I will just try helping other people to refine their designs.  And while I am labelel a "newbie" on here, I think that I can bring some very valuble knowledge to the table.


Actually yes you can.  You just have to know how to manipulate it.  Search "Halbach Array".  I think it will be the key to making so many of these magnet motors actually work.  Another thing is to always try to make these MM produce movement by attracting rather than repelling.  Over time even when permanent magnets are forced to repel each other they will die.

Several people have tried to point out to you that there isn't any tangential force asymmetry in your design, so the rotor isn't expected to want to turn.

Depending on the magnets, you are wrong about permanent magnets dying in repulsion. What kills (some) magnets is being exposed to fluctuating fields stronger than some limiting value. For modern NdFB magnets you are extremely unlikely to be able to achieve this condition in a mechanical arrangement, so your magnets will not "die". Magnet manufacturers often display large magnets suspended in repulsion, even supporting weights, and show that they do not lose strength even over long periods of time.

Finally, many magnet motor researchers know that using attraction instead of repulsion produces difficult-to-overcome "cogging" or walls of mutual attraction (energetic wells or minima) that may be avoided by arranging things in a repulsive orientation.


Offline magnetman12003

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 09:32:23 PM »
Observe the 4 different track rails.  I have built four number ones. Look at the magnetic polaritys of each rail. number 2 and 4 are not to be used.

Tom

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #21 on: November 16, 2008, 09:32:23 PM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2008, 10:34:57 PM »
 I am sorry Tom but your design will not work as you plan for it to. You can not have one with our the other nor can one be stronger then the other.  Your design closed a loop which created a inner and outer polarity. The inner polarity will have the same strength at equal points away from the center.

 
 gregs78cam, the "Halbach Array" acts like a horse shoe magnet. The bottom of the U is less powerful then the top. You can not have a magnetic field unless it has a north and south and the will always have a equal strength. The same goes for the separate polarity's, they two will always have the same strength from the center of the polarity.



Offline gregs78cam

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 01:17:22 AM »
ok, thank you.

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2008, 01:17:22 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2008, 01:32:14 AM »
Greetings magnetman12003

 A few people here will remember that I have written about a magnet wheel that I claimed in 1974 that I did for a school project. It ran for 1 1/2 days before it tore out the middle of my cardboard center. But it ran in a jerky motion which probably sped up its demise. Wracking my brain to remember what I did I remembered that the magnets made more of a square outer edge. What you are doing is taking me back again so I will follow your progress and help if I remember anything useful.

If you have any questions please ask, for this may help me jog my memory as well.

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2008, 02:11:37 AM »
Hi All,

 I have just posted a movie on the U tube Named " MAGNETIC BOX TRACK".  I am not forcing the long stacked rod magnet to do anything. The repel forces work a lot better than the attract. The corners are the jerky in transition areas.  Remember if we use a 5 arm rotor only one of the rotor magnets will be going through a corner area at any given time. The other four rotor arms will be track swinging. 

Using a 3 arm rotor -- at times two of the arms will be very close to a corner area.

Now you can see everyting for yourself.

Tom

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #25 on: November 17, 2008, 02:11:37 AM »
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Offline nightlife

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #26 on: November 17, 2008, 02:25:31 AM »
 The video proves what I have said and the link to it follows. If you were to keep the motion in a perfectly circular motion, the effect that I stated would take place and you can see that by the force your you have to over come to try and keep the circular motion going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGrSBNf_O3o

 

Offline nightlife

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #27 on: November 17, 2008, 02:30:53 AM »
AB Hammer,
Quote
A few people here will remember that I have written about a magnet wheel that I claimed in 1974 that I did for a school project. It ran for 1 1/2 days before it tore out the middle of my cardboard center. But it ran in a jerky motion which probably sped up its demise. Wracking my brain to remember what I did I remembered that the magnets made more of a square outer edge. What you are doing is taking me back again so I will follow your progress and help if I remember anything useful.


 Are you serious? You mean to tell us that you did this and cant remember how you did it? It would be like the first time you had , a very unforgettable experience but yet you say you forgot?

Offline magnetman12003

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #28 on: November 17, 2008, 02:34:11 AM »
Nothing ventured -- nothing lost.

I see 4 arms on track and 1  in a corner transition or hesitating area.

Math tells me that 3 arms now will power the spin. 

2 arms null each other out.


Tom

Offline nievesoliveras

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Re: A SQUARE MAGNETIC RAIL -- ROTOR 360 ROTATION
« Reply #29 on: November 17, 2008, 03:42:27 AM »
@all

The halbach effect is viewed here http://www.overunity.org.uk/halbach.htm

Jesus

 

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