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Author Topic: Compressed Air for Car  (Read 10255 times)

Offline pese

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Compressed Air for Car
« on: November 14, 2008, 12:30:33 AM »
AIR

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/456.html  AIR DRIVEN CAR  , Made in  India , selled in France
 
Can it be true, that you can drive for 1,5 Euros (1$) 100km ??
This with electric compressor tu upload ?
.
The Kilo-Watt´s to upload can sure not be cheaper than this  3 Euros to
upload the car for the next 200kmßs !!??
If so : to let run the compressor on gasolin (LPG) electric generator
(cost possibly the doble of "line current" - ist also anyway cheap,
so you can take the compressorü generator with you (hybrid)

I think somthing must be wrong ist this offer from france ..(?)


Build an Windmill for compressing air !
Sothe compressimg make an lot of losts.
(This are values "HEAT" , that you will
store for warmwarmwater and heating.
The compressed air, you will use ti drive maschines (also turbine
electric generators) to use electricity.
And use this to drive that "cheap" car
with "Free-Wind-Energy)

Pese

But with electric made air pressure- i think it is imossibe do make
an profit to drive this in this way.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 07:53:54 PM by pese »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Compressed Air for Car
« on: November 14, 2008, 12:30:33 AM »

Offline Danner

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2008, 06:23:22 PM »
I remember seeing something on tv about an Australian inventor who had designed a very efficient motor using compressed air to run his little vehicles.  Does anyone know if they are using his motor? 

I have been looking for someone to apply this to energy storage.. for things such as windmills and solar panels.  I doubt it would be as efficient, but it would require less expense and space than batteries do. 

The range is hard to believe, but the vehicles are extremely light.  They would never come close to passing the collision requirements here in the US. 

Offline pese

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2008, 01:29:14 PM »
I remember seeing something on tv about an Australian inventor who had designed a very efficient motor using compressed air to run his little vehicles.  Does anyone know if they are using his motor? 

I have been looking for someone to apply this to energy storage.. for things such as windmills and solar panels.  I doubt it would be as efficient, but it would require less expense and space than batteries do. 

The range is hard to believe, but the vehicles are extremely light.  They would never come close to passing the collision requirements here in the US. 
It is nice to drive also an smal car (for shoppimg in town)

But the "econimic ask here was".
Can it possibel to becomes mor poser (KW) out
that i must pay fto compressing the air first ?))
So it´s sounds from Vieo (if i dont
misunderstand...)
Pese

Any comments to this ?

www.pesetrier.150m.com/09.html
(link-collections)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2008, 01:29:14 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline pese

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 02:48:39 AM »

Offline khabe

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 05:03:03 PM »
How efficient are different air motors? What is efficient of air compressing?
When piston air motor then its similar to steam engine - what will be efficient of  old steam locomotive when instead of giant boiler installed large enough pressured air reservoir?
Is the making of pressured air more efficent than steam producing  ???
And so on ... and so on ... ::)
none interested about >:(
regards,
khabe

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 05:03:03 PM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 07:46:49 PM »
How efficient are different air motors? What is efficient of air compressing?
When piston air motor then its similar to steam engine - what will be efficient of  old steam locomotive when instead of giant boiler installed large enough pressured air reservoir?
Is the making of pressured air more efficent than steam producing  ???
And so on ... and so on ... ::)
none interested about >:(
regards,
khabe

if the compression can be done in any air compressor.
if gasolin motors als are piston motors it will work.

i have seen als disk turbine mors , that work with very ig speed prm
and must work with step down gears, so te RPM and Power will come fine.
i think to "google-out" this again, i seen this 3 years ago last tim and cant remember exactly.
GP

Offline Shanti

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 05:12:23 PM »
Well, this has already been discussed here some time ago. And to my surprise, not even here people were interested. So why should then the "normal society" be interested in it?

Guy is at it already since a long long time...(http://www.mdi.lu)

About the efficiency: Pure theoretically an aircar can have an efficiency of 100% (pure isothermic compression and expansion). For practical purposes this value will certainly not be reached.
But compared to the theoretical efficiency of a conventional combustion motor (which will also be unreachable), you can also see, that the efficiency you can get for practical purposes is definitely quite higher than a conventional engine.

The problem is certainly, that the compressed air is not as energy efficient as gasoline. This means, even with quite a large tank you will not be able to drive far.
This is why the projected cars all have an approximate range of about 100km.
So IMHO it's the perfect city car! But not usable for the highways...

What makes this idea interesting is, that you can carry some additional gasoline with you. Then you can expand the air with the help of heating it. This makes some kind of stirling motor out of the aircar, with only a burner added.
Like that you can increase the range extremely. So that even with such a car you can drive far distances, sure then on gasoline.

From the energy efficiency, electric cars are certainly better, but they are very expensive, as the batteries and the electric motor are very costly. The aircar however is very easily and cheaply to produce. Also the batteries have to be changed every few years in an electric car, which produces additional costs...
This is why IMHO the electric car never had and never will have a chance on the market, it's just too costly...

So IMHO they are far more economic than electric cars. And more efficient than conventional cars. And if the current for the compression comes from renewable energy sources, then it would be a perfect device for the current time, when there are not yet any better technologies economically available.

I for myself will buy one, as soon as they are available. I hope this will be soon. As Guy already said years ago, that it will be soon available...

Quote
I remember seeing something on tv about an Australian inventor who had designed a very efficient motor using compressed air to run his little vehicles.  Does anyone know if they are using his motor?
 

Nope, they have their own, "conventional" piston air-motor.

Quote
I have been looking for someone to apply this to energy storage.. for things such as windmills and solar panels.  I doubt it would be as efficient, but it would require less expense and space than batteries do.
 
They surely would not need less space than a battery solution, but the solution would be cheaper. But on the other hand, as the efficiency is not that high as for batteries, you would have to decide what's better...
But you can read on Wikipedia, that such systems are really used today to store power plant energy during the night. They have an efficiency of about 75%.
« Last Edit: December 10, 2008, 06:41:55 PM by Shanti »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2008, 05:12:23 PM »
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Offline PhiScience

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2008, 06:19:57 PM »
  Here is a good collection of research done on air-powered cars.

http://www.aircaraccess.com/

Offline Goat

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Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 06:34:41 PM »
I remember seeing something on tv about an Australian inventor who had designed a very efficient motor using compressed air to run his little vehicles.  Does anyone know if they are using his motor? 

I have been looking for someone to apply this to energy storage.. for things such as windmills and solar panels.  I doubt it would be as efficient, but it would require less expense and space than batteries do. 

The range is hard to believe, but the vehicles are extremely light.  They would never come close to passing the collision requirements here in the US. 

@ Danner & All

There is a good write up about the motor you are talking about Engineair’s Ultra-Efficient Rotary Compressed-Air Motor at http://pesn.com/2006/05/11/9500269_Engineair_Compressed-Air_Motor/

This motor is incredible to say the least, it only takes 1 PSI of pressure is needed to overcome the friction!

Here is the site http://www.engineair.com.au/

Regards,
Paul

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Compessed Air for Car
« Reply #8 on: December 10, 2008, 06:34:41 PM »
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Offline b0rg13

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #9 on: December 10, 2008, 08:48:55 PM »
i wonder if this air engine could run a gen/alt.....then a inverter to run an air compressor(to refill the air) ,then would there be any usable energy left over to use to run a house?.

Offline Danner

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 10:07:16 PM »
PhiScience and Paul (there was an advertisement that would not clear over your handle so not sure what that is, glad you signed your name)..   Thank you for the links.  That did reference the program I had seen on TV.  It was interesting reading.

I hope more comes of it.  It would seem to be an efficient way to store energy and run a generator. 

Not sure if I will get a reply, but I will write Engineair and ask them if they have any plans in that regard. 

Thanks again,

Daniel

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2008, 10:07:16 PM »
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Offline pese

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2008, 06:31:21 AM »
[
@ Shanti
Noo,
the efficience ist not bear 100%

you have an lot of losses.
The heat that you produce , by compressing the air IS LOST.
But wonderfull heater if you use the !!
(Remember that tis energy  (coling the ais  will als decrease the produced
values of compressed air production
Use your air compressor also to heat your home (warm-water etc.)
warm-water-boilers.

So than use the rest of it to fill your own air-fuell-station for your car.

(So you must not "re-heat" the air (with gasolin in your car)

Who can say how mutch % loss (in heat) i produce when Icompress the airdid, which means the energy as heat in the home can used
Pese
« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 10:58:20 AM by pese »

Offline Shanti

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2008, 10:13:43 AM »
Quote
@ Shanti
Noo,
the efficience ist not bear 100%

What I said is 100% true: I said the theoretical efficiency is 100%. I also said, that in practise you will never get it!
As in practise you will not be able to have pure isothermal expansions and compressions.
You could get very near this 100% if you expand/compress very slowly. But surely this is not practical. And as the efficiency figures for big power plants which use compressed air for storage show (about 75% efficiency), you can get quite good figures if you put some effort in it. It is said in Wiki that the aircars currently have a total efficiency of about 34%, but unfortunately they don't say with which compressor method they got this value. What would be interesting what is the motor (expansion)-efficiency. And what the compressor efficiency.
Surely the losses during compression can always be used to heat something. Which I think will certainly be used to additionally heat the home. Like that the compression losses are not in vain...

Quote
(So you must not "re-heat" the air (with gasolin in your car)
I'm sorry. But I really have much problems understanding your posts. So I really didn't get why you don't have to reheat the air.
Well you don't have to do this! Usually the air in the environment is used to heat the air to STP to run the car. But if you don't have anymore enough compressed air to run on air alone, then you can use the gasoline to heat the air, so that it gets a higher pressure, so that you now can still drive with an air expansion motor...

Offline pese

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Re: Compressed Air for Car
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2008, 11:53:33 AM »
@shanti
possibly onther treads said nearla 100% efficient,
BUT added all losses IT MUST be 100% in summary.

Ih have "he feeling" that i have more heat on the outlet tube from compressor that fill the "resevoir-tank".
If this make 25% (and more?) heat. Than you have better to USE this first.

Save all.
HEAT (into warm water boiler

Compressed ait  to work with
Air- tools
air turbine , electricc generator (to use at home)
IF you can not use all the air in your car.
 

If you can use airmills:
than constructe one that have an compressor in
the head of the mill
(do not produce first LOSSES to make electricity.
to use then an compressor motor
Lee Bell have done this on his great Workshop 

www.leebell.net.

The pictures are here

http://www.packratworkshop.com/minipwrwind.htm

since 2005

-----------------------------
To finish , i think. with compression air , we have an
an usefull source., that contains also additionally an
third power.
Refrigidation.
The expanding air , will cooling down the ambient.
PESE



Some more interesting devices , you find here
(i will add,somes more, because i search again
in this "field"

http://pesetrier.150m.com/link-Fuel.txt


« Last Edit: December 13, 2008, 04:08:34 PM by pese »

 

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