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Author Topic: H20 and bouyancy  (Read 4622 times)

Offline gsmsslsb

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H20 and bouyancy
« on: November 10, 2008, 06:02:52 AM »
I had this idea for a buoyancy engine.
It could be run at sea. the deeper the better.
The reason why buoyancy is so hard to utilise is because it takes as much energy to get the gas down to the bottom as you get from the travel back up.
This device bypasses that particular problem by sending the electricity down and splitting the water at the high pressure.
High pressure electrolysis is more efficient than electrolysis at 1 atmosphere according to the experts in the field.
the electrolyser could split sea water or a pipe to the surface could supply proper mixed electrolyte.
If the electrolysis is 70 percent efficient then the energy from the buoyancy needs to produce the other 30 percent of the energy for the electrolysis and then anything above that is free.
Anyway its an idea let me know what you think



Offline zerotensor

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Re: H20 and bouyancy
« Reply #1 on: November 10, 2008, 09:05:14 AM »
Interesting!

On its surface, this idea seems to have merit.  I have seen a lot of buoyancy-gravity schemes floated (pun intended) over the years, and all of them sink upon a little examination.  This one seems different.  At first glance, I can't find any good reason why it wouldn't work.  There are, though, a few issues that spring to mind:

1)  Is electrolysis really more efficient at depth?  What do the pressure-output curves look like?

2)  The product gases are compressible, while water isn't.  The same number of gas molecules will displace less water at depth.

3)  Under pressure, a portion of the gas will dissolve in the water.

4)  How does temperature fit into all of this?  As the bubbles rise and expand, the gas will cool.  The thermal energy recovered by combustion of the gas might be offset by the cooling effect of decompression.

The concept relies on the fact that the products of the reaction are gases, and as such they take up more volume, molecule for molecule, than the liquid reactant.  A spin-off of this idea would be to perform electrolysis in a sealed vessel, and attach a turbine generator to the gas output.

Also, the concept of magnetohydrodynamics comes to mind.  Could an electrolysis cell in a magnetic field double as a pump?

Anyway, an intriguing idea.  It seems some number-crunching is necessary to determine the magnitude of the extra energy, (if any) that can be gleaned by leveraging the volume increase obtained from the phase change from liquid to gas.





Offline AB Hammer

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Re: H20 and bouyancy
« Reply #2 on: November 10, 2008, 02:57:19 PM »
gsmsslsb

 Where are you going to get the energy to run the electrolyser to run the device? This is what kills most ideas before any possible build and is what we have to overcome to get over unity. Until I come up with the blower that my buoyancy device needs to make it run, it could still be a waste of time.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: H20 and bouyancy
« Reply #3 on: November 10, 2008, 09:05:08 PM »
gsmsslsb

 Where are you going to get the energy to run the electrolyser to run the device? This is what kills most ideas before any possible build and is what we have to overcome to get over unity. Until I come up with the blower that my buoyancy device needs to make it run, it could still be a waste of time.

 But the real sin is not to try at all. Nobody is perfect, even us who have built several devices can and will still make mistakes. For this is by no means a precise science. After several builds people will learn several things that have to be addressed at all time and then we truly learn what has to happen to get a runner. it is like a large jigsaw puzzle with several missing pieces. Those who figure what the missing pieces are will build a runner.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: H20 and bouyancy
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2008, 06:51:01 PM »

I thought of this idea previously. One could have lets say a bunch of old computer fans inside a
column of water so brown's gas bubbles would turn a bunch of the fans as PM DC generators
dioded together as the bubbles rose up through the column. Technically one could make the
column as tall as necessary to achieve overunity. But I came up with the downside; that at the base
of column's water pressure would compress the brown's gas making the bubbles a lot smaller and
displacing a lot less water, so the bubbles would start off very slowly and then expand only as
they went up the column. I think deep sea divers experience some of the same things with their
equipment at depth. The brown's gas might also get absorbed by the water column. Because of
the uncertainties I gave up on the idea. One would need an efficient water electrolyser at the base
of the column and an efficient fuel cell at the top. It may still work but it would be difficult to say
without constructing it.

:S:MarkSCoffman