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New Battery systems => Fuel Cells => Topic started by: bandr60 on October 24, 2008, 10:01:06 PM

Title: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on October 24, 2008, 10:01:06 PM
I recently started making heavy-duty generator lids for wide mouth mason jars,
These allow me to add more plates to my generators and prevents from any leaking, cracking etc.
Please feel free to visit my Website at www.hydro-extra.webs.com.
I have tried numerous designs, and still feel that the mason jar offers less maintenance, mason jars are transparent so you can see what is going on inside your generator, the glass doesn't break down from thermal expansion from the elevated temperatures and temperature change, they take the heat well and they are easy and inexpensive to replace.
The only problem was trying to find a lid that would be durable enough, well now there’s one available.
My lids have a high temperature gasket that give a 100% seal and withstand the temperatures.
The hose and terminal connections are all drilled and tapped, with a little Teflon tape they seal great.
My generators are capable of producing 1 to 1-1/4 liters per minute of hydrogen.
Definitely worth checking out.
www.hydro-extra-webs.com
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jdcmusicman on October 25, 2008, 03:56:03 AM
looks like little hydrogen grenades if ask me ....Let one of these get a good flashback and you will have sharp glass shards flying everywhere , making hydrogen in glass is dangerous....
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: kewlhead on October 25, 2008, 05:56:54 PM
looks like little hydrogen grenades if ask me ....Let one of these get a good flashback and you will have sharp glass shards flying everywhere , making hydrogen in glass is dangerous....

I dont think anybody's stupid enuf to try and light a torch with it but ya never know....   you probably shuld " note - not ment for producing flames "  there are some pretty silly ppl out there that never heard "curriosity killed the cat" and might just try to fame the output instead of its intended purpose.
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jdcmusicman on October 25, 2008, 10:46:22 PM
I wasn't talking about lighting a flame to it , I was talking bout having a flashback , which you will have those from time to time , thats why I wouldn't use glass ....
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on October 25, 2008, 11:37:03 PM
Wouldn't matter if it was plastic, acrylic, or PVC pipe. If it was to explode, but of all the kits I've used or have seen as long as you use some type of flashback arrester you are pretty safe.
But I agree! you can never be to safety conscious. When using hydrogen safety goggles and long sleeves probably makes most sense.
Also full knowledge and research of operation prior to installing a system.
You definitely wouldn't want to go at this blind.
 

Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jdcmusicman on October 26, 2008, 02:14:01 AM
Yeah no one should be going in blind with this hho . Yeah as long people are safe things will be safe , but can have an occasional accident with hho even with being over safe ..And as far as plastic ,pvc, and acrylic ,yeah it can blow into pieces to but I think I would rather have a piece of flying plastic hit me instead a piece of glass....Just trying to help thats all...
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jeanna on October 26, 2008, 02:38:41 AM
Just to clarify for all the folks who are afraid the HHO will explode and hurt them...

HHO is unique because it IMPLODES, This means if there is a flash back, it will be sucking air into the mason jar NOT blasting fire out of it.

Now, when the HHO is added to air in your air intake and it goes into your engine, it changes its characteristics to explode. But now it is in your engine where an explosion is designed in.

So in the original mason jar as well as in the bubbler and the tube,,, everything until real O2 gets mixed with it, it is an implosion and so if it breaks the jar it will stay all in one place.

I am interested in using one of these as a welder, and I have been checking this out. You can light the end of the tube that comes from the bubbler, and use this gas for welding.

Only when you want to cut something do you add O2.

Once you do that wow it is really hot.... but as I said, THAT is what is happening inside your ICU.

So, please relax.

Personally I think it looks great.

My question is how many amps does it draw? If it is on the website, I missed. Please describe. Are you using electrolyte when you quote the output? etc?

jeanna
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on October 26, 2008, 02:10:17 AM
Hi Jeanna,

These do not draw any amps. until you add an electrolite, you can use any type of electrolite whether it be vinegar, baking soda, sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide etc.
The output readings that I recorded were with baking soda and sodium hydroxide at 22 amps.
The advantage to sodium hydroxide is that the cell runs cleaner, last longer, and only requires 1/16 to 1/8 teaspoon of sodium hydroxide.
These generators tend to run much more efficient when ran in series, they run cooler and use less distilled water.
I am currently running two in series with a PWM and I can control the amps for city and highway driving. It is best not to run more than 10 amps at idle because more than 10 amps at idle is to hard on the alternator.
Once you get on the highway you can adjust your pwm to your desired amperage which tends to differ from ones perspective to another.



Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jdcmusicman on October 26, 2008, 02:53:20 AM
A hho generator makes hydrogen on the negative side and oxygen on the positive side.
I have been conducting experiments with this stuff for over 5 months and ..HHO is hydrogen+oxygen ,
Light a match to some in a jar , you will find out real quick like that it EXPLODES ...Of course if you do test with this stuff , after the explosion takes place , it then implodes a little..I done it tested it ..this is what it does ....To think that you are in no danger until the gas hit the air , is misinformation...
thats why its called HHO   2 parts hydrogen , 1part oxygen ...Trust me it explodes ....with out having any outside air contact...
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: topothemtn on October 26, 2008, 03:01:19 AM

  jeanna.   

  Sorry to dispute you,but when you get a flashback into a hydrogen generator you get a very LOUD explosion. No flame to speak of.   I had cells made of 2in. PVC with press on caps ( for safety )  when I was trying to light up a torch without a safety bubbler ( I'll never do that again )  I got a flashback , it took out the flourescent light above and dented the light fixture. I was three feet away and wasn't hurt (except my ears).

 Have you ever had one explode or implode?
 
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jeanna on October 26, 2008, 04:18:36 AM


These do not draw any amps. until you add an electrolite,



Thanks.

jeanna
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: HHO King on October 28, 2008, 11:15:01 PM
Hi Jeanna,

These do not draw any amps. until you add an electrolite, you can use any type of electrolite whether it be vinegar, baking soda, sodium carbonate, sodium hydroxide etc.
The output readings that I recorded were with baking soda and sodium hydroxide at 22 amps.
The advantage to sodium hydroxide is that the cell runs cleaner, last longer, and only requires 1/16 to 1/8 teaspoon of sodium hydroxide.
These generators tend to run much more efficient when ran in series, they run cooler and use less distilled water.
I am currently running two in series with a PWM and I can control the amps for city and highway driving. It is best not to run more than 10 amps at idle because more than 10 amps at idle is to hard on the alternator.
Once you get on the highway you can adjust your pwm to your desired amperage which tends to differ from ones perspective to another.








Bandr,

i like the lids! Do you have those for sale?

 I agree if done safely the mason jars work great.

Nice job!!!
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: pese on October 28, 2008, 11:26:07 PM
If you will:
http://tube-description.150m.com/woodpecker/index.html
Do-it-yourself
GP
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on October 28, 2008, 11:55:28 PM
HHo King,

I have complete kits at this time and should have more lids ready in a few weeks.
Also will have some polycarbonate jars that will work with these lids soon.
Also these lids seal great.

Thanks
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: HHO King on October 29, 2008, 12:55:27 AM
HHo King,

I have complete kits at this time and should have more lids ready in a few weeks.
Also will have some polycarbonate jars that will work with these lids soon.
Also these lids seal great.

Thanks

If you don't mind me asking where did you get your hho pwm from?
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: Rocko on October 29, 2008, 05:20:04 AM
Yep, these babies do xplode

Did it several times testing safety features and found that something like a popoff  cap or tube will release the pressure fast enough to leave the (PVC) cell undamaged (never tested glass). Even tho i know my containers wont blowup i still cringe at the thought of an xplosion because it is LOUD.

I did see a video that claimed of an implosion but it was in an engine and didnt happen consistently, totaly different situation than a cell.

The lids look sweet but the glass would worry me a bit  (just my opinion), i guess if nothing will cause a spark in the container under rough conditions it should be ok .
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jeanna on October 29, 2008, 08:21:05 PM
Rocko,

It seems to me that you are using the word explode to mean a cold explosion caused by the build up of too much pressure in the first generator.

@All,

I saw the youtube vid too I think. I saw one where a bunch of guys who had made the generator cell from a hard plastic water container. The first moments the guys were laughing excitedly because of HOW MUCH gas their device was producing. Then kaboom. The whole thing exploded. There was no flash no heat just water everywhere. Someone had the presence of mind to turn off the power immediately. They laughed and "F-ed" a lot and then the vid was over. They kept saying how wet they were water everywhere.

This may be wet but it is not a flaming explosion. These are 2 very different kinds of explosions.

People must be clear about this. I cannot tell you how many people have warned me to be careful with my HHO generator and to take all the precautions etc.

Of course, I will.

I will post these 2 links. There are more, but these are very informative.

=========
--------------
first from Yull Brown himself:
Quote
http://www.nottaughtinschools.com/Yull-Brown/Free-Energy-Lecture.html
This site has pages of videos as well as written information.

=========

from
Quote
http://fu.fi/~esa/merlib/?q=node/5676

Enjoy!

And, I hope this clears up some fears I see being expressed.

jeanna
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: woodpecker on October 30, 2008, 02:21:28 PM
My too, i started my journey in to the hydrogenland with designs, quite similar to this one and in a way i am thankful to the people working with it. But my own experience was, that it was so difficult to get a good sealed cell, good sealed connections to the tubing and i never could get out that amount of gas, as promised. I have lost quite a lot of time and money with that ind of design and finally i got strait into the building of compact drycells. With these i had perfect sealing, perfect sealed connections and a fantastic output of gas with low Amps. and the drycell will always survive any flashback without hurting anybody. From my experience i can only say, that it is much easier and quicker to build a drycell, then a Open bath Electrolyzer and the drycell will always beat any openbath electrolyzer. Maybe as a booster for  cars, efficiency is not that much the problem and maybe it is still a good way to give people a basic understanding about these things, so don`t feel this as critics.I just wanted to share my own experiences with you. And i hope, that done day soon, you too will start to build drycells.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DJDKYXmIWM


woodpecker 
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: Rocko on October 31, 2008, 01:52:05 AM
@ jeanna


NO

I mean xplode , as a flame put to the gas to test safety features and an explosion as a direct result of the flame.
absolutly without a doubt there was an explosion as a result of the flame and there was not anywhere near enough pressure to cause what you talk about.

I saw the video you speak of and that was caused by pressure. There may be a slight implosion before or even after the EXPLOSION but there is to cause a a plastic pvc cap to fly across the yard. Zerofossilfuel has some video on UTUBE that show what im talking about.

My knowledge is first hand, HHO can be safer than gasoline and if not respected it can be much more dangerous that gasoline so regardless of what anyone claims I know to respect the power of HHO

good luck
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on November 01, 2008, 05:17:54 PM
I have been experimenting with HHO production for several years now and have used multiple style containers.
As far as mason jars these are far better than pvc containers because they will not distort when heated up, the lids that typically come with the mason jar designs that I have seen have always been a problem. Especially if you are going to use plates.
The carriage bolt designs tend to work well with the lighter plastic lids.
If someone was really worried about the jar exploding all you need to do is install these in a plastic container as an extra precautionary measure.
I do suggest that anybody using hho cells use a bubbler and a PWM (pulse width modulator) as these help control the amperage and keeps your cell from overheating. www.extremehho.com has an excellent PWM that is enclosed with a cooling fan and front facing amp meter and controls.
I have seen multiple designs for HHO Generators but dollar for dollar the generators I sell here at www.hydro-extra.webs.com is a great solution to minimum maintenance and high output with my 316L stainless steel plate design and heavy duty CPVC mason jar lids all kits come with the bubbler, flashback arrestor, 10 gauge  wiring with fuse block w/fuse and terminal connectors, braided hoses, air intake plenum elbow w/nut and a tee for vacuuum connection, check valve, custom machined heavy duty o2 sensor extender as well as complete installation instructions .
I can custom arrange your plates however you would like. If you do purchase a PWM you do not need the neutral plates and can increase your production even more, my generators come stock with neutral plates to help control amperage, but as all cells a PWM is highly reccomended.


 
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on November 01, 2008, 05:29:03 PM
HHO King,

I purchased my PWM from www.extremehho.com great pwm's that are enclosed with a cooling fan and front mounted amp. meter and controls.
I like that you can mount these right on your dash and monitor and control your amperage between highway and city driving which is crucial to saving your alternator from over working.

Bandr60
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jeanna on November 18, 2008, 10:43:40 PM
Finally, I found this thread again. I have been looking in HHO threads!

OK so, I want to say the lids are really great.

Strong, sturdy very tight. Canning jar lids are meant to distort so you can see any expansion inside caused by bacteria. But this distortion is no good here.

This lid is solid.

Great job, Bandr60.

BTW,
I have been conditioning my plates in distilled water. I just wanted to get that started even tho I didn't have a pwm to set the thing up as Ravi describes.

The part I find interesting is that with pure distilled water, after the first hour where there was zero activity, I started to get some bubbles. Now there is a steady stream of bubbles rising to the top whenever the battery is connected. I guess I have a month or so to go.

I'm using a 0.47R on the + side of the 12 V battery and the voltage is showing 0.048V which means the amperage is about 0.1A.

The brown color has been forming on the bottom as usual.

Anyway, again thanks for a good lid,

Jeanna
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on November 18, 2008, 11:56:22 PM
Hi Jeanna,

I observed the same effects with just distilled water for conditioning, What I believes happening is as you continue to condition the plates they are allowing the hydrogen to release quicker.
This is the main reason why I sand the plates diagonally .
I am also very pleased with how well the lids turned out. My new ones will have a fill plug so you can add distilled water without having to open these.
I have been experimenting with a pwm and am awed at how little electrolite it takes to get really good production at very low amps.
I am also looking at designing a resistor that can be adjustable so the generators never get over say 125 degrees as anything hotter than this will cause the electrolite to burn and decrease it's effectiveness. You never want to run the cells more than 140 degrees so I figured 125 was a good number.
I will keep you updated with my studies as I continue my experiments. one more thing that I have been doing is adding an 1/8" thick cpvc bar to each side of the cells to help with the energy loss out of the edges rather than sealing with epoxy.
Once I get ahead a little bit I will mail you 2 of these with the proper tie wraps so you can try it out.
Thank you for the feedback. I like to hear how they are working for all my customers.

Thanks again,
Bill
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: jeanna on November 19, 2008, 12:07:21 AM
I looked at the place where you were buying the pwm and they must be out. there is no longer a link to sell these.

I am putting the pieces together to make a single 555 timer on-off pulse. I am getting help. I can't yet see how the power doesn't go through the timer, but I will see some day.

Ahh I love learning... good thing too!  ;D

Any idea for an alternate source of pwm?

Jeanna
Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: bandr60 on November 19, 2008, 12:33:53 AM
Jeanna,

There are alot of pwm's available that are really cheap, E-Bay or just google search. The reason I like Extreme HHO's is because they are enclosed with an amp. meter to monitor your cell, they also have a cooling fan and a  30 amp. breaker so they dont burn up.
But for what your doing you could get an inexpesive one and just run an external fan to keep it cool.
for probably $35.00. here's a link were you can possibly get one. hhogeneratorkits.com/pwm-pulse-width-modulators/.
Again I will continue to share what I find that works!

Bill

Title: Re: Hydrogen Generator with heavy duty CPVC Mason Jar lids
Post by: Thaelin on November 29, 2008, 06:32:25 PM
   Before you go and pay out you may want to see zerofossilfuels setup. Very sleek and simple
and even has current limit setting. Easy to get parts and you can even see him make it on youtube
as well. Very simple and straight forward design. I will be grafting it into my E-bike for the motor
controller by adding 2 more MosFets to the design.
   Has frequency, duty cycle and current setting pots. What more could you ask for?

See him at www.alt-nrg.org for the full schematic and parts list. Great guy and he gave it to the people.

thaelin