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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: allcanadian on October 22, 2008, 03:39:42 AM

Title: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: allcanadian on October 22, 2008, 03:39:42 AM
Robert Alexander
Method and apparatus for increasing electrical power

The patent information can be found at this link:

I have modified the patent picture to show the general layout, the armature depicted in gray is a transformer wound with both primary and secondary windings. The primary windings (black) are switched through a commutator connected to a DC source. The secondaries (red) are not switched but the AC current is directed from the device through slip rings. The reason this device can work as stated is because the DC current pulsed through the primary will induce a voltage in the secondary windings like a conventional transformer. The armature can act as a transformer because it is in the region "between" the magnetic poles refered to as the bloch wall. The bloch wall is a region having no magnetism and can be considered as impolar. If the armature is energized outside this region then the permanent magnetic poles will influence the armature and losses will result. In the same instance the primary is inducing a current in the secondaries it is also producing an accelerating force on the armature towards the PM poles---It is acting as a motor and transformer in the same instance and can do this because the force is applied near the bloch wall. Next the commutator disconnects the primary current and the armature is attracted to the PM poles at which point a current is induced in the secondaries only as the primaries are disconnected. At this point the armature is acting as an AC generator because the armature coils are moving in a permanent magnetic field. If we look at this sequence of events it becomes obvious that the armature will act as a motor/transformer/generator in this order exactly twice per revolution. If we need to concieve a gain of some sort then this gain is due to the fact that the input is added to the output through induction. The input has also provided an accelerating force on the armature to drive the generating action. It should also be apparent that there is no mechanical driver in this device, the input to the primaries drives the device. I have built this device using a 12v/120v transformer cut down to form an inductor as the armature, the transformer is rotated between a permanent magnetic field. For the stator I used a large transformer cut down to form a "C" and neo magnets attached on the inside of the "C" core. To allow rotation of the armature/transformer I attached plastic plates to the side of the transformer which hold bearings and allow the armature to rotate freely. The commutators are copper shim stock attached to plastic end plates and the brushes are carbon arc welder gouging rods (1/4") which make excellent brushes and can be soldered as they have a copper sheathing. I have moved on to a brushless version of this motor/generator which is currently being tested and data will be posted as it becomes available.

Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: Jdo300 on October 22, 2008, 05:31:28 AM
HI Allcanadian.

Great find you have here! I remember coming across that patent before but I never payed it much attention though I noted that the DC bias on the generator core was very interesting. At the time, I wasn't sure how to interpret what I saw but after looking at the second picture you attached, I thought of a different but possibly similar idea. It could be acting as some kind of magnetically balanced Generator where the DC field winding could be balancing out the mechanical forces from the armature magnets.

Here's an idea I thought of while looking at the patent picture:


I believe that what will happen is the rotating rotor will still cause a changing magnetic field on the rotor magnet which the coil is wrapped around, but as the coil generated power, it's magnetic field simply adds to or subtracts from the field of the rotor magnet, which remains in balance at all times with the armature. So no matter how much power is pulled from the coil, the system maintains balance which could reduce or practically eliminate the drag force!

I could be missing something simple here but take a look and let me know what you think :-).

God Bless,
Jason O
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: AhuraMazda on October 22, 2008, 02:01:56 PM

I tried to research furher into this and came across patent US4885526 which has some very revealing information and uses Alexander's patent as a reference.
The workings are described very crealy in this one.
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: gyulasun on October 22, 2008, 02:21:14 PM
Hi Folks,

Good catch Ahura  and the inventor is Leslie Szabo the creator of EBM (energy by motion) generator claimed to be ou.

I think the EBM machine is in this patent:

Here you can freely download the US4885526 Ahura mentioned :

And this is also a good link on Szabo's generators:

rgds, Gyula
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: petersone on October 23, 2008, 10:43:33 PM
Hi Jdo300
I like your idea,but as you draw current from the coil would that not increase the repulsion and decrease the attraction? God I hope I am wrong!!!
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: oouthere on June 05, 2011, 06:00:59 AM
  I decided to give this motor/generator a shot.  The test frame is a  Chinese built 12V DC motor.  The manufacturer is BCM and  the part number is 200602000F.   The original no load measurements were obtained from the powering device, a MASTECH variable power supply HY3005D (30V/5 amp).   My mini-o’scope would only lock for short periods but the sine wave looked normal for an a/c generator and did not have the dc pulses as shown in the patent so perhaps I did not wind the motor correctly.

No load original motor readings with factory 19AWG and 12 wraps:

Volts/Amps: 2.0/1.1; 3.0/1.24; 4.0/1.35; 5.0/1.44; 6.0/1.55; 7.0/1.7; 8.0/1.72; 9.0/1.83; 10.0/1.9; 11.0/1.94; 12.0/2.05; 13.0/2.1; 14.0/2.15; 15.1/2.07; 16.0/2.15; 17.0/2.18; 18.0/2.11; 19.0/2.11; 20.0/2.13; 21.0/2.0; 22.0/2.2; 23.0/2.3; 24/2.4

  I tried winding the motor for 1 primary turn to 3 ac generator turns (12:36 in this case) as called for in the patent but there was not enough room on the rotor core.  Since the amperage readings were so low and this is only a test unit I decided to strip the core and rewind using 24AWG which should be good for about 3.5 amps.  Using my finger on the shaft the amps would jump to a maximum of 4.0 amps during testing so this should suffice.  I wound the core but nearing the end I realized I had forgotten to reverse the winding direction at the middle set of turns and without doing so it would have a zero voltage output.  I had originally wrapped it using 12 primary drive windings to 36 ac windings and was running out of room toward the end so I switched to a 5:15 ratio instead, still following the 1:3 build listed in the patent.  Here are the new no load measurements at only up to 12V as I do not trust my work as much as the factory….lol

No load rewound with 24AWG and using 5:15 primary/generator:

Volts/Amps: 4.1/2.08; 5/2.13; 6/2.17; 7.1/2.22; 8/2.23; 9/2.27; 10/2.32; 11/2.35; 12/2.41
For loading purposes I used a 60 watt incandescent bulb to test the generator output:
(Motor input v/a; generator output v/a):  (4.1/2.88; 13.6/.04) (5.2/3.03; 18.1/.11) (6.1/3.1; 21.8/.16) (7.1/3.22; 26.4/.2) (8/3.26; 29.9/.22) (9.1/3.37; 34.6/2.5) (10.1/3.49; 38.9/.27) (11/3.57; 42.7/.28) (12/3.59; 46.3/.3)

 The first reading is 12.67 watts input and .544 watts output, the last reading is 43.08 watts input and 13.89 watts output, nowhere close to over unity.

I tried using two 60 watt bulbs in parallel to place a heavier load but the efficiency never went above 30%.  I’ll post photos and winding patterns as time permits.  There is more than one way to wind the rotor so this is not the only build I'll try.

Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: oouthere on June 05, 2011, 06:49:11 AM
Here are pictures of the test platform....
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: broli on April 08, 2012, 05:01:54 PM
I don't like reviving old threads but I just come across Robert W. Alexander patent on rexresearch and was intrigued to see any experimentation on this due to its simplicity. And lo and behold there was.

I'm very interested in follow up experiments by @oouthere. I'm actually more curious on the winding pattern of your secondary coils. Because if you just wind the secondary along the primary motor windings wouldn't you end up with a polyphase system which is not good if you just hooked it up to just two slip rings?
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: oouthere on June 05, 2012, 08:21:42 PM
Just a quick update, I’ve made 8 different versions of this generator so far.   I’ve tried three different frames (the two pole listed above, a four pole, and also bought a 2.5lk Onan generator ( ( which seems to match the pictures and era of the patent).  The device will not work if wired according to the patent, also the field voltage is wrong as well….it’s 4.5 volts, not 45 volts.  The armature core segment picture has 25 segments, not 20 so it seems either information was intentionally distorted or there are bad typos.  In another article it states a 7/8hp motor kicks of the system, no idea where that enters into all this unless it is more deceit.  But anyway, just wanted people to know I’m still throwing money and time into this project.
For those interested I believe the magic is in a flicker circuit on this particular generator.  The field coils are double wound with one coil set being ran through the armature and the other set being ran to ground via a set of contact points located in the engine points housing.  When the motor would fire it would speed-up and cause the lights to go bright so in order to stop this the flicker points opened at the same time, which opened the field circuit direct ground and routed it through a 5 ohm/50 watt resistor which reduced exciter flux temporarily.  After 10 or 15 degrees of rotation the points would close and the full flux would resume until the next ignition fire.
The theory seems to be that when the reduced exciter field flux occurred on the armature current producing part of the stroke then the counter torque was not so great thus reducing the required input energy for the armature rotation.  I’ve ordered parts to try this next.
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: norman6538 on August 24, 2012, 10:04:21 PM
Rich I am very interested in your replication. back about 6 years ago I took a Chevy Cavalier
ventilation DC fan motor with permanent magnetic stator and rewired the coils and made
an AC collector out of the drive end by extending the shaft to attach the collectors. It did
not perform well. I still have it and will examine it to see how I wired the segments.  They did have two coils wound in the same segment to get the transformer combined flux effect.

A problem
with these motors is brush overlap to multiple coils. That might need to be changed by removing every other segment to get isolation. What I thought would be better is a brush set
and DC out like the asymetrical motor discussion here

The patent has an assignee which could be a surrogate for any of the big guys.
The concept sure is simple enough and surely could be assembled and tested.


Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: oouthere on April 22, 2013, 03:31:20 PM
Just a quick update.  I’m still working the Robert Alexander patent project (Patent # 3,913,004) but with no success thus far. 
In an attempt to use the flicker circuit to reduce back emf I mounted a VW point distributor to the shaft and tried various timing settings using the original draw down resister, this made no difference in the input/output efficiency.
 The exciter coils are double wound, four #10 or #8 wraps to about 100 wraps or so of #14 wire.  I isolated the large windings from the smaller ones and tied those to the a/c output (normally DC driven) in an effort to simulate a counter emf effect but this also had no real effect.
 Patent #5,892,311 is based on a rotor design that uses the same polarity on each end of the rotor shaft:
   (North- shaft length-South)  Only pulsing the coils on one end with the same polarity.  The idea is to have the coils reversed and the rotor magnets (shoes for electro magnets) making symmetrical rotational balancing  using a four coil set with only two of the coils being pulsed at a time.  All of the current is fed through the non rotor pulsed coil in wired in such a way as to attract the rotor away from the current producing coil.
I don’t believe it will work well with this Onan generator (a modified alternator frame is better suited) but the rotor (which is the armature normally for this generator) does have the same pole at both sides if driven by an external dc input.   The problem with the Onan’s single polarity rotor idea is the south pole mushrooms out from the center and this interacts with the non-pulsed coils. The worst part of trying this is the need to externally rotate the generator and this is not how the Alexander patent states it works. 
 I have a second rotor and but in patent #5,892,311 it shows only enough rotor segments to interact with one full face of an armature coil.  I believe grinding off the unnecessary segments from the rotor may help reduce the mushrooming flux from the unipole rotor, really not looking forward to having to hand wind a rotor that large!
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: oouthere on April 22, 2013, 04:40:15 PM
  Just an additional note, physicist Richard Clark used an Onan 1AJ (1KW/four pole/1800 rpm) generator to replicate Robert Alexander’s work.  The 1AJ and the LK2.5 are the same generator set-up types.  Patent #4,885,526 talks of the compensation coil and in two of the diagrams it shows a single polarity pulsing of the coils….
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: hanon on September 06, 2014, 04:51:36 PM
Hi all,

After watching carefully Robert Alexander US patent 3,913,004 drawing I have discovered that the correct polarity in the Alexander device is  with like poles facing each other ( N-N !!!). Alexander drew it so that everyone would think that was N-S, but if you interpret correctly his drawing you will note the correct polarity of the magnets. Maybe Alexander was trying to hide this feature.

I attach a corrected sketch below.

Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: tinman on September 07, 2014, 03:14:20 AM
Mechanical inverters have been around for some time now,but now the solid state ones have taken over.
Title: Re: Robert Alexander Motor/Generator
Post by: hanon on September 07, 2014, 06:16:16 PM
Hi all,
You can see more clear in Figure 2 of Alexander patent that poles are oriented with like poles facing each other. The right stator pole orientation is North - North. I can not explain why, but this is a real fact. Figure 1 is the one that everyone knows and that figure 1 is drawn to mislead us.