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Author Topic: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)  (Read 299705 times)

baroutologos

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #480 on: March 01, 2010, 08:07:48 AM »
I do not want to be a spoiler here, but this Tesla patent is the predecessor of the plasma ignition in contemporary gas machines.

The concept is simple and is Bedini style as we know it today (Tesla style actually). Same as the ozone patent of Tesla's. Charging an inductor and then, when abruptly opens the circuit, magnetic field collapses and charges a capacitor - the infamous flyback current - .

Then, a charged capacitor in series with a coil, does what it does best. it rings at that particular frequency of the system.
The L2 coil will ring also, and if tuned will be a nice tesla coil or ringing LC. If not tuned at least will spark.

What is the advantage of it, in comparison to spark-gaps and HV generators? (apart from the noise and simpler setup?)

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #481 on: March 01, 2010, 08:15:52 AM »
Logos
hows it goin buddy, bust out the bifi.

I made a new thread on this pat.  the thing with this is it is not freq dependent. The freq is dictated by the application needs. this simplifies things even further. Imagine, no spark gaps, simple anytime you want pulses any freq.   These things are very favorable in my book.

magluvin

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #482 on: March 01, 2010, 08:20:52 AM »
I have to look for this 1 item first and if Im correct, Grandma can build this thing with knitting needles and a soldering iron after a trip to radio shack.

let me check this out.  be back in a bit. hold on, someones knocking on my door really loud.    BAAHH hahahaha  lol

Magluvin

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #483 on: March 01, 2010, 08:55:43 AM »
@Del boy,

I am familiar with Tesla Coils actual designs. This way Tesla achieved Qs of tens of thousands. So? You have a million volts... you have more power out? You have also a great current displacement... You have power?

Who told you that? Any proof? We are all speculating here


I'm not speculating !!! Tesla told me ;)
It's problem in understanding of REACTIVE POWER AND ENERGY !!! Tesla Coil is generator of REACTIVE POWER!
Huge POWER GENERATOR. All you need is right receiver for that kind of transmiter. And even that Tesla gave to us, but nobody wants to read. But again , problem is that we don't have correct TeslaCoil like Tesla said it should be!
quote : "In 1900, however, after I had evolved a wireless transmitter which enabled me to obtain electro-magnetic activities of many millions of horse-power"

Another quote : "In my first efforts, of course I simply contemplated to disturb effectively the earth, sufficiently to operate instruments. Well, you know you must first learn how to walk before you can fly. As I perfected my apparatus, I saw clearly that I can recover, of that energy which goes in all directions, a large amount, for the simple reason that in the system I have devised, once that current got into the earth it had no chance of escaping, because my frequency was low; hence, the electro-magnetic radiation was low. The potential, the electric potential, is like temperature. We might as well call potential electric temperature. The earth is a vast body. The potential differences in the earth are small, radiation is very small. Therefore, if I pass my current into the earth, the energy of the current is stored there as electromagnetic momentum of the vibrations and is not consumed until I put a receiver at a distance, when it will begin to draw the energy and it will go to that point and nowhere else
Suppose that the earth were an elastic bag filled with water. My transmitter is equivalent to a pump. I put it on a point of the globe, and work my little piston so as to create a disturbance of that water. If the piston moves slowly, so that the time is long enough for the disturbance to spread over the globe, then what will be the result of my working this pump? The result will be that the bag will expand and contract rhythmically with the motions of the piston, you see. So that, at any point of that bag, there will be a rhythmical movement due to the pulsations of the pump.
That is only, however, when the period is long. If I were to work this pump very rapidly, then I would create impulses, and the ripples would spread in circles over the surface of the globe. The globe will no longer expand and contract in its entirety, but it will be subject to these outgoing, rippling waves.
Remember, now, that the water is incompressible, that the bag is perfectly elastic, that there are no hysteretic losses in the bag due to these expansions and contractions; and remember also, that there is a vacuum, in infinite space, so that the energy cannot be lost in waves of sound. Then, if I put at a distant point another little pump, and tune it to the rhythmical pulses of the pump at the central plant, I will excite strong vibrations and will recover power from them, sufficient to operate a receiver. But, if I have no pump there to receive these oscillations, if there is nowhere a place where this elastic energy is transferred into frictional energy (we always use in our devices frictional energy -- everything is lost through friction), then there is no loss, and if I have a plant of 1,000 horsepower and I operate it to full capacity, that plant does not take power, it runs idle, exactly as the plant at Niagara. If I do not put any motors or any lamps on the circuit, the plant runs idle. There is a 5,000 horsepower turbine going, but no power is supplied to the turbine except such power as is necessary to overcome the frictional losses.
Now the vast difference between the scheme of radio engineers and my scheme is this. If you generate electromagnetic waves with a plant of 1,000 horsepower, you are using 1,000 horsepower right along -- whether there is any receiving being done or not. You have to supply this 1,000 horsepower, exactly as you have to supply coal to keep your stove going, or else no heat goes out. That is the vast difference. In my case, I conserve the energy; in the other case, the energy is all lost"

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #484 on: March 01, 2010, 09:02:28 AM »
I give Delboy All the credit for the presentation of the idea of where to look. I am only relaying what I read and interpreted from what I have read from other tesla patents and the connection is clear and evident.

It is the low voltage way I have had my mind set on with moving forward on this idea of amplification. It simplifies many things that are not easy to accomplish when you visualize these ideas in other patents on the subjects of..

1 simple source of high tention
2 avoiding spark gaps and quenching
3 producing abrupt discharge by way of simple switching

Of which are what becomes seemingly huge objectives when first looked upon in other patents and descriptions. This Pat provides very simple ways of doing these things, as that anyone can achieve the objective.

Magluvin

If you want to power TC with low voltage than you will use this one with two stage amplification. Take a look at this picture I posted.
But if you have source of high tension than you will use one-stage amplification. Next picture.

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #485 on: March 01, 2010, 09:19:50 AM »
Just look Tesla patents hronologicaly. Tesla patented 9 forms of circut controllers = switch ! That was what he was trying to perfect.
First there was spark gaps, than rotary spark gap, than rotary switch with brushes, and finally rotating switch with liquid metal! All that was because reducing looses on commutation!!!
Where you can find switch with caracteristics 1000A and voltage drop less than 1V ???? Max you can have is IGBT of 1000A and 4,5V and that is big looses. Tesla had better switch 100 years ago, and you don't even read his patents , that is shame :(
You are still using old shema from 1891. that Tesla abandon! He perfected his own TeslaCoil and you even didn't look at it. That it is shame :(

forest

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #486 on: March 01, 2010, 09:34:06 AM »
The main advantage of igniter patent and ozone patent is this : IT IS DC SYSTEM
This produce radiant effect easily.

Please tell me more about bifilar coils. Where can I find how magnetic field of this coil looks like and if inductance of this coil is stable or depends on some factors ?
Basically if I good understand any capacitor discharge into coil produce such magnetic field spike which can produce current spike in envinronment or second coil.Bifilar would just store 2500 more energy then ordinary coil which is set for one resonant frequency.

BUT..... in igniter patent there is commutator used to discharging and charging capacitor.The main problem is to build one or to replace it with electronic part ? I think solid state device would be hard to realize.

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #487 on: March 01, 2010, 09:45:31 AM »
hey Forest

Well this is what i like about this pat. Pulse when needed. We are not tuned to any particular freq. No tuning.
If there is Radiant energy here, it will happen in 1 pulse or as many and how ever fast as you like.
 I see a relay contact working fine here.   We are starting with 12v, use a relay to put 12v across the inductor, release the relay and the inductor discharges to the cap, and a relay to discharge the cap into the primary. These 2 things can be done with 1 spdt relay. Its just what is the output and what to do with it and how.  ;)

Im still looking for the door knob that I mentioned earlier. Reading and posting and reading and posting.  ok  back to reading..

mags

forest

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #488 on: March 01, 2010, 09:47:17 AM »
I'm not speculating !!! Tesla told me ;)
It's problem in understanding of REACTIVE POWER AND ENERGY !!! Tesla Coil is generator of REACTIVE POWER!
Huge POWER GENERATOR. All you need is right receiver for that kind of transmiter. And even that Tesla gave to us, but nobody wants to read. But again , problem is that we don't have correct TeslaCoil like Tesla said it should be!
quote : "In 1900, however, after I had evolved a wireless transmitter which enabled me to obtain electro-magnetic activities of many millions of horse-power"

Another quote : "In my first efforts, of course I simply contemplated to disturb effectively the earth, sufficiently to operate instruments. Well, you know you must first learn how to walk before you can fly. As I perfected my apparatus, I saw clearly that I can recover, of that energy which goes in all directions, a large amount, for the simple reason that in the system I have devised, once that current got into the earth it had no chance of escaping, because my frequency was low; hence, the electro-magnetic radiation was low. The potential, the electric potential, is like temperature. We might as well call potential electric temperature. The earth is a vast body. The potential differences in the earth are small, radiation is very small. Therefore, if I pass my current into the earth, the energy of the current is stored there as electromagnetic momentum of the vibrations and is not consumed until I put a receiver at a distance, when it will begin to draw the energy and it will go to that point and nowhere else
Suppose that the earth were an elastic bag filled with water. My transmitter is equivalent to a pump. I put it on a point of the globe, and work my little piston so as to create a disturbance of that water. If the piston moves slowly, so that the time is long enough for the disturbance to spread over the globe, then what will be the result of my working this pump? The result will be that the bag will expand and contract rhythmically with the motions of the piston, you see. So that, at any point of that bag, there will be a rhythmical movement due to the pulsations of the pump.
That is only, however, when the period is long. If I were to work this pump very rapidly, then I would create impulses, and the ripples would spread in circles over the surface of the globe. The globe will no longer expand and contract in its entirety, but it will be subject to these outgoing, rippling waves.
Remember, now, that the water is incompressible, that the bag is perfectly elastic, that there are no hysteretic losses in the bag due to these expansions and contractions; and remember also, that there is a vacuum, in infinite space, so that the energy cannot be lost in waves of sound. Then, if I put at a distant point another little pump, and tune it to the rhythmical pulses of the pump at the central plant, I will excite strong vibrations and will recover power from them, sufficient to operate a receiver. But, if I have no pump there to receive these oscillations, if there is nowhere a place where this elastic energy is transferred into frictional energy (we always use in our devices frictional energy -- everything is lost through friction), then there is no loss, and if I have a plant of 1,000 horsepower and I operate it to full capacity, that plant does not take power, it runs idle, exactly as the plant at Niagara. If I do not put any motors or any lamps on the circuit, the plant runs idle. There is a 5,000 horsepower turbine going, but no power is supplied to the turbine except such power as is necessary to overcome the frictional losses.
Now the vast difference between the scheme of radio engineers and my scheme is this. If you generate electromagnetic waves with a plant of 1,000 horsepower, you are using 1,000 horsepower right along -- whether there is any receiving being done or not. You have to supply this 1,000 horsepower, exactly as you have to supply coal to keep your stove going, or else no heat goes out. That is the vast difference. In my case, I conserve the energy; in the other case, the energy is all lost"

Oh,delboy. This is not so simple. Tesla was hiding a lot of information (or those were wiped from his text) - the only tip we can find is in 1900 article about increasing human energy.What Tesla described above is wireless transmission which is never OU.The piston on receiver cause a friction to be propagated back and affect piston-transmitter in the same way as Lenz law affect transformer.

P.S. I mean OU is not in such wireless transmission.It could be "generated" in transmitter alone or "receiver" alone or in DC wireless :-)

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #489 on: March 01, 2010, 10:05:48 AM »
The main advantage of igniter patent and ozone patent is this : IT IS DC SYSTEM
This produce radiant effect easily.
Please tell me more about bifilar coils.
BUT..... in igniter patent there is commutator used to discharging and charging capacitor.The main problem is to build one or to replace it with electronic part ? I think solid state device would be hard to realize.
It is not point that advantage is DC system!
It's point that you don't produce current spikes of hundreds of ampere to produce voltage spikes on sekondary !!! Current from source is limited with H (large input inductivity) and as soon current start developing it is abruptly stoped by switch and HIGH VOLTAGE is generated on SWITCH because of III Newton law= reaction of system, and that high voltage is used to charge capacitor! Tesla's system don't give BIG load to battery!
H is large inductivity or we can think of that as model of constant current.
You are mislead by opinion that inductivity gives HIGH VOLTAGE. It's switch that regulates how big this voltage will be!!! And also it can be regulated over inductivity, look at patent no. 568178 there you have 4 ways of regulation! That is first step in amplification. Second amplification is in secondary by adjustment of primary inductivity to hit the resonance in secondary! Q factor in secondary gives how big voltage will be on TOP-LOAD!
Formula for power in secondary is P=Cs*fs*Us^2
Cs-top-load capacity for example 150pF
fs - resonant frequency in secondar for example 50kHz
Us - voltage on top load for example 1MV
Than we have P =7,5MW oscillating reactive power in secondar available for transfer
But there are more requirements to this Tesla system :D
-secondary in spiral form
-length of secondary is quater of wave length
-frequency of secondary about 50kHz (and not 1MHZ !!)
-and more...

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #490 on: March 01, 2010, 10:14:08 AM »
Oh,delboy. This is not so simple. Tesla was hiding a lot of information (or those were wiped from his text) - the only tip we can find is in 1900 article about increasing human energy.What Tesla described above is wireless transmission which is never OU.The piston on receiver cause a friction to be propagated back and affect piston-transmitter in the same way as Lenz law affect transformer.

P.S. I mean OU is not in such wireless transmission.It could be "generated" in transmitter alone or "receiver" alone or in DC wireless :-)
There is nothing hidden. Find Colorado spring notes and find patents, and that is it!
Why could not be OU if we generated several MW reactive power with input of several kW ???
Than you put Tesla receiver that will pick up just few percents of that but enough to became OU device!

forest

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #491 on: March 01, 2010, 10:27:55 AM »
There is no point to argue delboy. I see you have a better knowledge then me about electronics.
I only said that DC is easier to produce radiant effect. How do you convert reactive power in your Tesla coil with high Q and resonant secondary ? How do you pick up JUST few percents of it without disturbing resonance ? I don't say it's impossible but I just don't know how.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 10:54:54 AM by forest »

delboy

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #492 on: March 01, 2010, 11:54:44 AM »
There is no point to argue delboy. I see you have a better knowledge then me about electronics.
I only said that DC is easier to produce radiant effect. How do you convert reactive power in your Tesla coil with high Q and resonant secondary ? How do you pick up JUST few percents of it without disturbing resonance ? I don't say it's impossible but I just don't know how.
Hmmm, isn't resonance effect that gives rise to reactive power???
How big Q factor than proportinaly that big will be reactive power!
For example, if we have on primary say 3kV and primary is 1 turn and is in loose connection with secondary and primary see only  few turns of secondary, for example 5 of them, and secondary have 50, giving 45 is left! Because nothing is ideal, let supose that we transfered let say 2kV to 5 turns of secondary.
That 2kV is now one NEW SOURCE of high frequency! And we have stil 45 turns left and also there is TOP-LOAD capacity! This is new RLC open circuit: SOURCE – 45 turns= INDUCTIVITY – TOP_LOAD capacity. This is important to understand. Resonance is possible in an open RLC circuit! One wire transfer!
Than if Q of secondary is for example Q=500, than under resonance this will give 500*2kV =1MV voltage of high frequency. Than you can calculate by uper formula, how big power will be., because it depends on capacity, frequency and square of voltage! Tesla build TC with relativly big diameter. You now why? Because he wanted to reduce loosses in secondary because if you have thousand of turns your voltage will be eaten up by parasitic capacity!
That's why he had only 30-50 turns in secondary but diameter was 3-15 meters which gives high induction necessary to have high Q! Tesla enlarged induction by making diameter bigger not turns! It is also square dependent!
How to collect this power without disturbing resonace?  With one wire transfer (wireless)! One wire can be Earth, Air(over 5 miles high), Sea, Copper etc I must go through something. That's why I call it ONE WIRE. You first must understand pricips of one wire transfer, than talk about how Tesla drive car on some black box bla bla. You are skiping the important part in Tesla's life.
You have patents 645576 and 649621 describing transversal receiver. Receiver is reverse of TC. Or if you want logitudinal one than look at 685955.
Ask your selves, how come that bulbs are light on connection C when they are short circuit?
I recommend reading this :

http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1919-05-00.htm
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/nt_on_ac.htm

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #493 on: March 01, 2010, 11:54:46 AM »
hey delboy
Be cool. =] We appreciate what you have given here. It has opened my eyes to something that I just wasnt able to see before on this.
I think this will be good for all as they gander and see.

I am envisioning the possibilities of pocket size versions. having many individual devices , 1 for every product or use.
No more wires in the walls. 1 for the electric car that really does not need to put out much more than the recommended charger necessary  to charge the batteries. or all the way to eliminating the batteries.
But this pat lended to the realization of how it could be done easily as compared to what we have been trying to figure out for months. Well now, for me, most of the pieces are here at hand. You can go to radio shack and get all you need to do it. Im going to experiment with a bit at a time to get those first things going and see what we see. Then continue on. Once we get the base going, waiting to figure out the last part, we will be prepared to add that as we sort out what gives us what we want on the output.

I would like to see some projects going on in this or my new thread, which ever, its the same. =]
It will be fun.  ;]

Mags

Magluvin

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Re: Tesla's Magnifying Transmitter (amplify electricity)
« Reply #494 on: March 01, 2010, 11:59:02 AM »
Bang bang!  "1 wire transfer"  I just asked tito about that. 

i like what im hearing


mags