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New theories about free energy systems => Understanding OverUnity => Topic started by: nul-points on October 05, 2008, 04:23:18 PM

Title: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on October 05, 2008, 04:23:18 PM
hi all

i'm not aiming to start an ongoing thread here, because this result is part of my experiments with switched charge
   http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4419.msg128942#msg128942
but i thought this was significant enough to give a heads-up to anyone whose tests involve recapturing fly-back energy from a coil

as i understand it, the official line on fly-back energy is that you only get back what you put in

the measurements i'm making on my switched-charge circuit show something different!


i'm pulse-charging a capacitor via a coil, and i also have a resistive load in series with them too

fly-back energy is returned to the RLC branch, after the pulse, via the diode at the positive end of the coil (see the negative portion of each Red trace)

the traces below - the first and last pulses in the switched-charge burst used to charge my output cap - show the applied pulse across the RLC branch (in Red) and the voltage across the 10 ohm resistor (in Blue)

you can see that, at the point that the pulses switch off, the current through the RLC branch was still rising, so the coil field is still being 'charged'

the traces clearly show that energy input to the RLC branch during the pulse is a fraction of the energy input which continues after the pulse stops

Energy input to the load for the first pulse:

57.6uJoules
  16.0uJ from the pulse
  41.6uJ from flyback

Energy input to the load for the last pulse:

20.2uJoules
  8.9uJ from the pulse
 11.3uJ from flyback

the proportion of flyback energy to pulse energy reduced with each pulse between the first and last, as the stored voltage across the capacitor increased, but the ratio was always > 1

[this now gives further support to the overunity results i'm seeing on the switched-charge experiment - until now i couldn't see where the additional energy was entering the system - it appears that it's being supplied from the coil field collapse as flyback energy, extra to that supplied from the input capacitor]

-----------------------------------------------
some more details on test setup:-

my coil is approx 2.5mH, 0.5 ohm DC resistance, so the I^2*R loss in the coil is only 1/20th of the power developed across the load

pulse width as shown here is approx 77us, but this is not a critical value** - it's just an example

the first pulse peak-voltage shown is 8.3V approx (the initial voltage on my input cap) and the final pulse peak-voltage is 7.8V approx


**the pulse width could be increased until the RLC current, as monitored by the load resistor, maxes-out
(this assumes the core doesn't get saturated before this point)

any more width on the pulse, after that point, will not increase the coil field, it will just result in increasing energy lost in the coil thro' I^2*R loss

so, to achieve most benefit from flyback, the pulse width should always be less than the value which maxes-out the RLC current (or saturates the core)
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: turbo on October 05, 2008, 05:04:28 PM
Hi Nul-points  :)

I have seen similar behaviour.
You can put a variable capacitor over the coil for example like 10 to 500 pF.
Then you can tune the oscillation to certain frequencies.
If you place a pickup element near the coil ,like these things they used in old cassette players and video recorders, and you amplify the sound then you can actually listen to the collapse which has a verry familiar sound.
You can also use it to listen to permanent magnets.


Marco.

(http://www.allproducts.com/manufacture98/lichuang/product5-s.jpg)
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on October 05, 2008, 05:45:57 PM
hi Marco - interesting observation, thanks - i guess you're referring to the oscillations on the 'pulse' waveform (Red trace)

maybe i should make it clear that the energy gain is shown on the 'load' waveform (Blue trace)

the left-hand side of the triangle waveform (representing energy input pulse) is smaller than the right-hand side of the triangle waveform (representing additional energy gained from the flyback)

PS   i see the link to my switched-charge experiment thread didn't make it as an active link above
  http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=4419.msg128942#msg128942

all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on October 07, 2008, 09:33:03 AM
thread title changed to clarify that these results show overunity flyback energy

260%  additional energy returned on first pulse
127%  additional energy returned on last pulse


all the best
sandy
Doc Ringwood's Free Energy site  http://ringcomps.co.uk/doc
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: forest on January 07, 2009, 08:11:24 PM
Please,if you have the circuit still, could you measure flyback energy when coil in your circuit is exactly inline with Earth magnetic field in N-S direction and then in E-W direction ?
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on January 09, 2009, 06:00:13 PM
Please,if you have the circuit still, could you measure flyback energy when coil in your circuit is exactly inline with Earth magnetic field in N-S direction and then in E-W direction ?

hi Forest

i'll try to check your requested setup when i'm working with this circuit - however, i should point out that my calcs which showed greater energy returned from the coil than stored were mistaken; i used the average current, not the peak current to calculate the stored energy - the corrected values confirmed returned energy equalled stored energy

i realise that you may be interested in the results of your proposed test anyway so i'll try to check that for you

the results used for this thread and in general on my tests with switched charge circuits are all obtained with the coil on a vertical axis

all the best
sandy
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: dorro1971 on January 09, 2009, 10:32:32 PM
hi all,

what about the magnetic component?? could that be used to do useful work and still return close to 100%???

reards

dorro
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on January 10, 2009, 01:01:37 AM
what about the magnetic component?? could that be used to do useful work and still return close to 100%???


a very good question, dorro, - worthy of a test, thanks!

all the best
sandy
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: Paul-R on January 10, 2009, 03:19:17 PM
As I understand it, the official line on fly-back energy is that you only get back what you put in
I don't agree. The collapsing field in a coil is a classic chance to
get zpe energy (viz Lee & Yang, Nobel Physics Prize, 1957 etc)
and is the basis for the success of the Adams motor and others.

It is an opportunity to be calculated for and aimed at.

Paul.
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: Grumpy on January 10, 2009, 04:59:31 PM

a very good question, dorro, - worthy of a test, thanks!

all the best
sandy

anomolies can be attributed to the "tempic" field, which is the one that is perpendicular to the electric and magnetic fields
Title: Re: To be deleted
Post by: nul-points on January 10, 2009, 05:40:36 PM
I don't agree. The collapsing field in a coil is a classic chance to get zpe energy (viz Lee & Yang, Nobel Physics Prize, 1957 etc)


hi Paul

i understand what you're saying, and there's at least one paper by Zaev looking at exactly this issue and reporting anomalous excess energy - and a separate paper by other authors presenting results which show similar behaviour from coil-collapse energy in a pulse-motor

in this second case the gain effect was assymetrical depending on whether rotor mag orientation was S-pole facing stator or N-pole

however, i'm just reporting measured results from my tests - and so far (when i use the correct value!) the energy released from the energised coil matches the input energy

but, as dorro questions above, i haven't yet tried to quantify the work which may be obtainable from the magnetic component of the stored field

more to do

all the best
s.