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Author Topic: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?  (Read 83656 times)

Offline ooandioo

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Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« on: November 03, 2005, 12:13:20 PM »
Just found on the net:
http://www.theverylastpageoftheinternet.com/forsale/plans/elsa/ELSA.htm

Looks interesting - do you think it could work?

-- Andi.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline lanca III

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2005, 04:02:17 AM »
call him,get sustainable answers and then try it !

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 12:52:19 PM »
I tried allready via eMail - he has entered 2 or 3 eMail addresses - all mails came back...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2005, 12:52:19 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2005, 08:42:58 PM »
The concept will not work.
All masses, that have gone down in the gravity field, that have not stored their
potential energy inside a spring,so they could be pulled back automatically,
will have lost their energy.

Only if you store the energy inside a spring or other storage device you can re-use
it again later and in the meantime use it to imbalance a wheel or something else...

Regards, Stefan.

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 09:00:05 PM »
You miss something. The energy is here stored inside the compressed piston. The only question is, would the water that is transported during the way down and up enough to compress the piston for a next ride.

-- Andi.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2005, 09:00:05 PM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2006, 04:24:27 PM »
hi all,

i found this on the internet by accident.  how did this get buried?  did hartiberlin's post scare everyone off?  surely , if you are a diver, you've used a BC to get you to the surface.

all of us crying for free energy should really be looking at this one very close.  for me (i live on a boat) it would be a little heavy to get the needed power to move my home around.  however, a smaller version aimed at only suppling my living needs, i think quite possible.  most of you live in a house with at least a little yard (or garden as you might call it) where you could construct your power station.  an ocean, lake or pond, etc, is really not necessary.  a self contained unit constructed above ground would work the same.  it may not be 30+ feet, but what you lose in depth, you can make up in diameter.

this unit may have a lot of drawbacks, maintance, large volume for power ratio, etc., but it has one large plus....FREE ENERGY!  isn't that what this forum is looking for?

if you are truely not a "na-sayer", you should get out your drawing board and post some workable designs people can build at home (or with min. outside work).

if anyone can see why this really won't work, please enlighten me.

sure, we maybe looking at the model-t of the free energy efforts, but we have to START someplace.

just from looking at the stuff posted by Don Adsitt of John Herring's work, i would say the recompression of the shuttle piston would be the hardest to do.  but, when you think about it, you are only trying to create a small amount of pressure (depending on depth shuttle piston travels to) in the shuttle piston.  rather than use the leverage as John Herring suggest, i would use the leverage to raise a wieght that would be heavy enough to compress the shuttle piston from the top.

i think attention should be given to how your waterfall (that's what you are really making here) should best be used.  hydroturbines seem like an expensive item and water wheels seem like they waste a lot of availabe engery.  LET'S BE CLEVER!!

don't you think it deserves as much attention as has been given to some of the other NON-WORKING topics?  the replies to this post will show if (and who) this group is really interested in free engery.  just because you may not use it yourself, doesn't mean you can't help those who will.

if i have overlooked some basic reason this device can't work, i apologize.  if we can't find a reson, we all need to apologize to John Herring.

tbird



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2006, 10:32:05 PM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2006, 12:56:14 AM »
hi FreeEnergy,

thanks for the link.  it just goes to show how trusting and easily put off some people are.  if anybody believed Jim_Mich, they should be ashamed of themselves.  he is so far off on the displacement value, i wouldn't believe anything he said.  1 cubic foot of water weights 64.7 pounds (salt water more).  terry5732  makes a point of the water wieght above.  did he forget the water pressure filling in behind?  all the others were talking with emotions or off topic.  the whole link seemed pretty useless to me.

i think a simple test to see if the water could be lifted by, in our case what we call the shuttle piston, all we have to do is take a ping pong ball under water with a length of pipe (doesn't have to be long, one end out of water by 1 inch) with id the same as ball diameter. if the ball went up and pushed out the water, great. if not, the proof it doesn't work is there (as long as you didn't try to push the water too high).  anybody up for the job?

tbird


Offline tbird

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 04:56:24 PM »
hi all,

couldn't stand the wait.  went out this a.m. and did the test myself.  i took a piece of 1.25" id pvc pipe, 12" long and a plug of styrofoam wrapped with duct tape (about 2" long), went to the edge of the harbor, submerged the pipe vertically except for the last 1.5" to 2".  i inserted the plug from the bottom and without hesitation it not only went to the top, pushing water out all the way, it came out of the tube.

anybody else want to tell me why this won't work?

Quote
You miss something. The energy is here stored inside the compressed piston. The only question is, would the water that is transported during the way down and up enough to compress the piston for a next ride.

ooandioo, you wrote the last post before i stepped in.  the amount of water can be almost any amout simply because you can deliver it almost any distance away.  lets say you need 100#s to compress the shuttle.  if you have 10#s of water (just over a gallon) 10 feet away with a lever and fulcrum, you now have enough force to raise the 100#s, right?  how many gallons in 1 cubic foot?  just under 8.  if you took it 20 feet away, you only need 5#s.  sounds like plenty of water to me.  the one thing you have to be aware of is the height the smaller weight needs to move the 100#s the distance needed for operation.

if all are clear on this point, what's next?

tbird

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2006, 04:56:24 PM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #9 on: August 22, 2006, 10:33:18 PM »
hi all,

couldn't stand the wait.  went out this a.m. and did the test myself.  i took a piece of 1.25" id pvc pipe, 12" long and a plug of styrofoam wrapped with duct tape (about 2" long), went to the edge of the harbor, submerged the pipe vertically except for the last 1.5" to 2".  i inserted the plug from the bottom and without hesitation it not only went to the top, pushing water out all the way, it came out of the tube.

anybody else want to tell me why this won't work?

Quote
You miss something. The energy is here stored inside the compressed piston. The only question is, would the water that is transported during the way down and up enough to compress the piston for a next ride.

ooandioo, you wrote the last post before i stepped in.  the amount of water can be almost any amout simply because you can deliver it almost any distance away.  lets say you need 100#s to compress the shuttle.  if you have 10#s of water (just over a gallon) 10 feet away with a lever and fulcrum, you now have enough force to raise the 100#s, right?  how many gallons in 1 cubic foot?  just under 8.  if you took it 20 feet away, you only need 5#s.  sounds like plenty of water to me.  the one thing you have to be aware of is the height the smaller weight needs to move the 100#s the distance needed for operation.

if all are clear on this point, what's next?

tbird

now how much water in weight did you get out? would it be heavy enough to push the piston all the way back down?

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 10:51:40 PM »
I also spent some time thinking about the gravity mill - still I am not able to say its working or not. You are right, if the pipe could really be as large as possible there would be an imbalance that can be used for overunity. I think some more practical tests will be needed in order to find this out (tbird - thanks for the first live-test). We should clear out how high the water can be pumped out of the pipe.

Andi.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2006, 10:51:40 PM »
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Offline tbird

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2006, 01:02:52 AM »
Quote
now how much water in weight did you get out? would it be heavy enough to push the piston all the way back down?

hi FreeEnergy,

i moved all the water in the pipe above the styrofoam except what went by the loose fit.  as long as you have a positive buoyancy you will push out all the water above except what gets by the piston.  the closer the fit, the less loss.  this brings us to "head pressure".  most pumps give you a head value.  this is the height the pump can pump the fuild in a given size pipe before it can't pump.  this will be dependent on the size of pipe used from the outlet (in our case, above water level).  the smaller the pipe, the less liquid, the less weight, the higher the lift.  in our case, it does not change the amount, just how long to get it.  less flow = longer time.  still will be all the water above except losses by piston (and any leaks in the plumbing).  AND, this is only half the cycle.  as far as using all the water to compress the piston, i wouldn't plan on using much more than 10% of the water available.  you will have plenty of time to fill a reservoir (small) that will work the lever that will lift and park the weight that does the recompression.  this leaves 80+% of the water to do work.  are you with me?

ooandioo ,

i wouldn't call it an "imbalance", i would call it a positive pressure supplying a reservoir (or 2) that supplies constant water flow to do work.  your own personal water fall.

what other test would you like to have done?

before you can tell how high, you have to know the size of the mill (this doesn't seem like the right name for it).  anyway, we also need to know how we will use the energy.  this will tell us how much electricty (if that's what you want to produce) we need, which would tell us (we could work out the math) how much flow, etc... so, maybe we need to focus on a common size.  we can always up or down size it later.  do we want to start with a proof of concept or go right to a useful unit?

i fear my post will be fairly long winded, but if you will read, i will write.

tbird



Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #12 on: August 23, 2006, 04:59:08 AM »
Hi TBird,
I had another look at all the graphics , which were
a bit confusing the first time I looked at them..
Hmm, maybe this concept is really having some merit ?

Many thanks for making this experiment.
How much water can you press out of the pipe ?
At what height is the pipe over the water surface ?

The main question is now, how much water-weight  x distance to move ( lever action) do you need
to recompress the swimmer-piston ?
I guess there is pretty much energy needed, right  ?

Can somebody calculate this and show, if the potential energy of the water:
 water-mass x g x heightdifference is then bigger than the energy needed to recompress this
swimmer-piston ?
Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline 2tiger

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2006, 11:21:13 AM »
Hi
I?m sure that this won?t work as long this SHUTTLE is piston like!
Well I begin with the downward phase.
A body will only sink if it is heavier then the weight of the amount of displaced water, equivalent to the body?s volume. In reverse case is this the reason why big tankers are able to swim.
As long the shuttle is piston like with seals it won?t displace water in any kind, because the body is not surrounded by water.
So nothing would happen. If the colum of water has a height of 20 m (10m in water and 10m over surface), by diameter of 1 m, and the shuttle"piston" is 1 m high at surface position, so its is trying to push 9 m colum of water against the pressure in the deep. More the IMPOSSIBLE!
Therefor any drop of water would reach the surface through this small pipe aside.

Now the upward phase!
Assuming that shuttle sinks against all rules and we have enough pressure to doubble its volume, the shuttle has now a height of 2 m.
Nothing will happen, too! Because 2m water colum, equivalent to the body?s volume is now trying for vaine to lift a 18m water colum  :o (now through this "magical valve"!!) even against the friccion of the pistons seal.

I think that in overunity.com there are more inventions / setups / machines that are more worth to think about it!

By
2Tiger
 



   
 

Offline ooandioo

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Re: Gravity Mill - any comments to this idea?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2006, 11:26:49 AM »
Since I found the gravity mill, the idea flashes in my head. Some times ago, I allready had some interesting contact with physics and mathmatics experts in german about one part of the gravity mill (http://www.wasser.de/aktuell/forum/index.pl?job=thema&tnr=100000000002584&seite=1&begriff=auftrieb&tin=&kategorie=).

I'm happy that the idea is now back in the "charts". Lets see, what we can make out of it.

Andi.

 

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