I've built several different system now that can be tapped for HV spikes from the collapse of the EM field in an inductor (bemf).  Interesting, but does it have a use other than conditioning or charging a battery?

For example, a system that generates these HV spikes can charge a cap to 85 V.  But that cap can only run a small DC motor for a split second.

But the reason for this post is this:  If I connect the HV spikes directly to the motor it will spin (pulsed) very slowly.  If I connect it to the cap and then discharge the cap into the motor it will spin very fast for a very brief period of time.  So 10 seconds of direct HV spikes to the motor may yield 1/4 turn of the motor.  But 10 seconds of HV spikes to the cap and then discharged to the motor can yield 100s of times more turns.

So why?  Do the direct to motor HV spikes get consumed by breaking the stiction of the stationary motor over and over again while the cap discharge only breaks it once?  Is the work done by the motor really the same in each case?

Thanks,

M.

But the reason for this post is this:  If I connect the HV spikes directly to the motor it will spin (pulsed) very slowly. 

I doubt that it would thank you for this. The spikes are high voltage; the Bedini SSG circuit
calls for 1000v diodes to route the spikes into the battery. It is not what the motor wants.
Paul.

     If the motor becomes the inductor in a resonant circuit then it's own collapsing magnetic field is utilized to charge the capacitor.  The input from the pulsed transformer then needs only to support the ohmic losses through the copper and not have to overcome the total impedance of the motor.   

@ Gyula,

Ah, Erfinder and Grumpy's posts are always an enlightening read.

So to equate to a mechanical system:  The HV spikes are like a short pulsing high pressure puff of air.  The motor is a windmill.  If they interact, the windmill sees only pulsing high pressure puffs of air.  It will move very slightly with each puff, but be stopped by friction and thus never accelerate enough to spin freely.

The cap is like an air pressure resevoir, only of incredibly tiny volume.  When the puffs of air are introduced to it the pressure builds very high rather quickly.  But the volume is so small that there is still not alot of air in there.  So when it is released into the windmill the windmill sees a slighly longer pulse of much higher pressure.  The windmill spins up higher for a split second and then slows back to a stop due to friction.

Does this sound right so far?

The high pressure air pulse from the reservoir to the windmill (case where the cap is charged and then allowed to release into the motor) can create (impart?) inertia in the windmill.  The high pressure puffs of air (HV spikes alone) cannot. 

I'm not entirely clear on why.   Have I fallen or skipped off course?

Is this analogous to the stationary wave concept?

M

@sparks,

Easiest to understand (for me) analogy I've heard/read so far.  Thanks so much.

Maybe I need all these electrical concepts related to pneumatics/hydraulics? 

One of the concepts that is much clearer is that the current is analogous to a compressible fluid, ie. a gas and not a liquid.  The whole "tank circuit" analogy was confusing.  Your analogy is much better, and more accurate I believe.

M.

The high pressure air pulse from the reservoir to the windmill (case where the cap is charged and then allowed to release into the motor) can create (impart?) inertia in the windmill.  The high pressure puffs of air (HV spikes alone) cannot. 

I'm not entirely clear on why.   Have I fallen or skipped off course?

Is this analogous to the stationary wave concept?

M

Hi,

I am not a "professor" in mechanical-electrical analogy so I would stay at electrical explanations if I can (sometimes I am rusty though...) 

So then your basic question is: Is the work done by the motor really the same in each case?   
My answer is no.
Although the flyback pulse's energy is the same in both cases, an inductive load (your motor) opposes any current the pulse voltage wishes to drive through it and being a very narrow pulse with fast rise and fall times it gets quasi 'choked' : the increase of current can be only gradual starting from zero and mainly governed by the value of your motor self inductance.  So in case this self inductance is high and the width of pulse is narrow there can be no time for the current to reach the maximum possible peak value. 
In case of a capacitive load the situation is totally different, a capacitor always behaves as a short circuit when uncharged and then any voltage is connected across it for charging. Hence the flyback pulse 'sees' first a short circuit as a load and all its energy content is able to get transferred into the capacitor (there is not any resistance, 'choking' effect in its way, except the series loss resistance of the cap which is very small and the inner impedance of the circuit that creates the flyback pulse). 
Now comes you connect the motor across the charged up capacitor (capacitor is separated from the flyback source). One thing is the 85V is many times higher than the 5V for your motor so a huge current is able to flow in the first moment too (pressure is very high).   Say your capacitor would have been charged up for only 5-6V from the pulse your motor would behave in a much modest way.
Now comes Erfinder and Grumpy posts I referred to (i.e. Tesla conversation with the Counsel)  on how quickly you take out the stored energy from a capacitor.

Your question on:  I'm still curious why my 8.4 V rated NiCds now charge to 9.7 V after being HV spike conditioned if anyone knows.     A battery can be compared to a high value capacitor (not a 100% analogy of course) so it can take up easily the flyback pulse.  However, be careful because NiCd or NiMh and probably Li do not like being pulse charged when they are otherwise in good shape. Pulse charging them is not recommended on the long run, though in case the first 2 types start already 'dying'  (they cannot take up the normal charge from their normal charger after many cyles of usage) then just treating them with pulsing current may make wonders. But after such treatment, the usage of the normal charger is recommended again.

rgds,  Gyula

I'm still curious why my 8.4 V rated NiCds now charge to 9.7 V after being HV spike conditioned if anyone knows. 

The Bedini people speak of conditioning the battery with numerous chargings of radiant
energy. In some way, this alters the battery. This may be what you are experiencing
with the new charge voltage. It might pay you to join the bedini_monopole3 Yahoo group.
Paul.