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Author Topic: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite  (Read 70625 times)

Offline chadj2

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2008, 03:48:57 AM »
I already believe that with the adams motor that you should be able to recapture about 99% of the energy used to run the coil. But since you brought up prior experimentation in your younger years I gotta ask; did you ever experiment with the tesla switch? That was my first really shocking experience. According to regular theories that idea should not work since batteries should only charge from amperage and once you have the breakover voltage it no longer plays a part. I spent days experiemnting with the Tesla switch and charging batteries from higher voltage and low amperage and then load testing them to veriefy that the power was actually in the battery (not just some surface charge). That was the major thing that made me question so much of what I was raised to believe about energy.

Chad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hoptoad

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2008, 04:17:53 AM »
I already believe that with the adams motor that you should be able to recapture about 99% of the energy used to run the coil. But since you brought up prior experimentation in your younger years I gotta ask; did you ever experiment with the tesla switch? That was my first really shocking experience. According to regular theories that idea should not work since batteries should only charge from amperage and once you have the breakover voltage it no longer plays a part. I spent days experiemnting with the Tesla switch and charging batteries from higher voltage and low amperage and then load testing them to veriefy that the power was actually in the battery (not just some surface charge). That was the major thing that made me question so much of what I was raised to believe about energy.

Chad
No, I can't say I have experimented with the Tesla switch. It sounds very interesting. Perhaps you might be able to give me a link to some some info about it?

I'm always willing to try out an experiment (or three !)  - and change my views about something if the evidence suggests I should.

Cheers

Offline chadj2

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2008, 04:39:49 AM »
Well, this is suprising. I may have been wrong in prejudging you. Here is the crux of the experiment. We both know that physics says there is just electron and ionic transfers in flooded lead acid batteries. Basically a 1 for 1 exchange during charging. So in theory if you were to charge a 12 volt lead acid battery with 3 amps from a 14 volt source for 15 minutes you should have the same amount of joules in the battery as charging the same 12 volt battery from 120 volts and 3 amps for 15 minutes. Obviously, to do the second part of that experiment you would probably have to build a PWM circuit and have a current limiting resistor handy. You could also see the effect with lower voltage sources also. For example, I have used 36 volt batteries to charge 12 volt batteries and measured joules out of the 36 volt batteries and then load tested the 12 volt batteries under load. I did this charge discharge process for sometimes full afternoons to make sure it wasnt a false effect. I have no explanation as to why batteries seem to charge from watts rather than just amperage. The point of this is that it is the principle on which the tesla switch works. Here is one link http://www.icehouse.net/john1/tesla.html . Here is another link  http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ the website that I just linked to there has a large number of systems which may or may not work but if you go down to chapter 6 there is more information on the tesla switch. I have learned through experimenting with the tesla switch that it will only work on certain loads, meaning that you will be able to recapture 99% of your energy in each pulse. Resistive loads are best it will also run inductive loads provided you dont tap that magnetic field that is building and collapsing (ie using it as a primary in a transformer and pulling power off the secondary). But anyway I have said a lot already. I do have one question for you concerning possible overunity with a common electronic device since you said you have been in the electrical field for many years. Why does a television CRT have a sudden buildup of charge on the screen right when it is first turned on? The charge soon dissipates but when you turn the television off the high charge appears again for a few moments. I hope I make sense in describing the charge on a television. When you turn a television on and run your hand across the screen you can feel the static charge, but it soon goes away. It does return however when you turn the television off. I have been trying to find the answer to this question for quite a while. Thanks

Chad

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2008, 04:39:49 AM »
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Offline hoptoad

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2008, 05:21:25 AM »
Well, this is suprising. I may have been wrong in prejudging you. Here is the crux of the experiment. We both know that physics says there is just electron and ionic transfers in flooded lead acid batteries. Basically a 1 for 1 exchange during charging. So in theory if you were to charge a 12 volt lead acid battery with 3 amps from a 14 volt source for 15 minutes you should have the same amount of joules in the battery as charging the same 12 volt battery from 120 volts and 3 amps for 15 minutes. Obviously, to do the second part of that experiment you would probably have to build a PWM circuit and have a current limiting resistor handy. You could also see the effect with lower voltage sources also. For example, I have used 36 volt batteries to charge 12 volt batteries and measured joules out of the 36 volt batteries and then load tested the 12 volt batteries under load. I did this charge discharge process for sometimes full afternoons to make sure it wasnt a false effect. I have no explanation as to why batteries seem to charge from watts rather than just amperage. The point of this is that it is the principle on which the tesla switch works. Here is one link http://www.icehouse.net/john1/tesla.html . Here is another link  http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ the website that I just linked to there has a large number of systems which may or may not work but if you go down to chapter 6 there is more information on the tesla switch. I have learned through experimenting with the tesla switch that it will only Twork on certain loads, meaning that you will be able to recapture 99% of your energy in each pulse. Resistive loads are best it will also run inductive loads provided you dont tap that magnetic field that is building and collapsing (ie using it as a primary in a transformer and pulling power off the secondary). But anyway I have said a lot already. I do have one question for you concerning possible overunity with a common electronic device since you said you have been in the electrical field for many years. Why does a television CRT have a sudden buildup of charge on the screen right when it is first turned on? The charge soon dissipates but when you turn the television off the high charge appears again for a few moments. I hope I make sense in describing the charge on a television. When you turn a television on and run your hand across the screen you can feel the static charge, but it soon goes away. It does return however when you turn the television off. I have been trying to find the answer to this question for quite a while. Thanks

Chad
Thanks for the info and links. With regard to the TV questions, they are good questions for which I don't have any reasonable plausable answers.

I'll look into the phenomena and if I come across any information I'll post it to you.

Cheers from Hoptoad

Offline gyulasun

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 01:26:26 PM »

... Why does a television CRT have a sudden buildup of charge on the screen right when it is first turned on? The charge soon dissipates but when you turn the television off the high charge appears again for a few moments. I hope I make sense in describing the charge on a television. When you turn a television on and run your hand across the screen you can feel the static charge, but it soon goes away. It does return however when you turn the television off. I have been trying to find the answer to this question for quite a while. Thanks
Chad

Hi Chad,

When you first turn on the TV set, the heater filament in the CRT is still cold hence no beam current can flow, the display is dark. But the horizontal output stage with flyback transformer and hv multiplier (being all solid state) already supply the 25-26kV into the CRT and this is what you can feel with your hand.
It is a surface static charge indeed which mostly gets reduced when the picture comes on, though does not disappear completely if you test it with your arm's hair...
And when you switch the TV set off it is the CRT itself which has its own capacity to store high voltage further on, even for half days or maybe days on. Glass is a very good quality insulator and from this respect the CRT behaves just like a Leyden jar.

rgds,  Gyula


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2008, 01:26:26 PM »
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Offline Nabo00o

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 02:11:21 PM »
Hi Chad,

When you first turn on the TV set, the heater filament in the CRT is still cold hence no beam current can flow, the display is dark. But the horizontal output stage with flyback transformer and hv multiplier (being all solid state) already supply the 25-26kV into the CRT and this is what you can feel with your hand.
It is a surface static charge indeed which mostly gets reduced when the picture comes on, though does not disappear completely if you test it with your arm's hair...
And when you switch the TV set off it is the CRT itself which has its own capacity to store high voltage further on, even for half days or maybe days on. Glass is a very good quality insulator and from this respect the CRT behaves just like a Leyden jar.

rgds,  Gyula



Btw, is it true that the capaciators inside the tv can store charge allmost indefinetly?
I have also heard that they can generate their own high voltage which can kill someone if they tries to open tv.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 02:53:13 PM »
Btw, is it true that the capaciators inside the tv can store charge allmost indefinetly?
I have also heard that they can generate their own high voltage which can kill someone if they tries to open tv.

Hi,

Well, capacitors inside the TV sets usually discharge through their appropiate circuits when you switch the set off (and this is not a stand-by switch off with the remote but you push the mains switch off or unplug). The discharge time normally takes max 2-4 minutes to go below safety limit.
The CRT is a different story but then you normally do not access the HV cap inside unless you deliberately unplug the HV cap from the side of the CRT... in this case you still get nasty shocks well after a day or two from the CRT.

What you say in your last sentence it is a memory effect from one hand whenever you discharge a capacitor its dielectic material inside tries to regain its previous "distorted" state which the stored voltage forced it into.
On the other hand, there have been certain capacitor types (mainly used in radio  or television transmitter stations) which collected charge from somewhere while being stored on the shelves. And this collected charge may have caused harmful shocks to the person handling the capacitors not aware of this. (I do not mean the caps collected charge from the field strength of the transmitter station nearby, the source must have come from elsewhere, maybe they remembered the previous high voltage test by their manufacturer.)  So to prevent any such charge collection or build-up, these capacitors are supplied with a shorting wire across their connectors.

rgds,  Gyula

PS:    ZPFE, sorry for the off topic in your thread...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 02:53:13 PM »
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Offline Paul-R

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 03:41:30 PM »
The energy gathered from the collapsing magnetic field of the coil is not "free energy", it is merely the energy stored by the magnetic field of the coil.
Cheers from Hoptoad
At the UK Free-energy Conference at the beginning of the month, we built
a bedini SG. We started with two lead acid batteries - one charged and
one empty. We ended up with the first battery slightly depleted and the
second battery charged.

Offline zpfe

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 04:04:29 PM »
Hi Guys,

I got word from a couple of lawyers today. The money they want is totally unrealistic. So that plan is out the window. It doesn’t make sense to sue for $50k and have to pay $120K in legal fees that may or may not result in a conviction.

I am afraid I did what I could but that’s as far as I will go.

You guys seem intelligent but don’t seem to grasp the difference between a phenomena that appears in these pulse motors and excess energy claims.
I too have seen these phenomena in my motor generators. I see more of it in my Adams motor than my monopole. The Adams motor is far superior in efficiencies and weird phenomenas than Bedini's system in everyway.
Just because we don’t yet know what it is, doesn’t mean it is excess energy. If it was excess energy, it could easily be converted to a usable form and be able to close the loop and get a perpetual machine going and remove the battery from the loop altogether. That has not happened BECAUSE there is no excess energy there. If it makes you happy to think that there is, who am I to stand between you and happiness?

I’ve been designing embedded PWM motor controllers for a living for over 20 years. I do know a thing or 2 about this subject. The recoil pulse is not wasted. The inherent body diode inside the Mosfet puts this pulse across the large capacitor that is between the positive supply and ground. (We use schottky diodes for bypass, because it’s faster in response time than the body diode inside the mosfet and it dissipates the heat that the mosfet would have had to deal with).
The rough formula is 100uF for every 1 amp current to the motor.
That is the largest electrolytic capacitor(s) on each and every PWM speed controller.

“Let them learn their lesson the hard way like you did”, my friend said.

So be it.
Just remember, this stupid, ignorant, blind sceptic told you so…


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 04:04:29 PM »
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Offline wattsup

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2008, 01:49:52 AM »
@zpfe

You asked your question and you got some answers. There is no need to get mad at us for giving you an honest answer. Bedini is not the do all end all. It is just another method and a good introduction to this effort.

Actually, some members here were once the biggest skeptics, so we are used to it. lol

Look up Humbugger on this forum. You will find that he was very in line with your thinking, but eventually, he was a very good person and helped here by teaching others, especially me (lol). Until he got banned. What a shame. I thought the forum was really out of line to ban him.

If you are good with PWMs then there is a guy here named Jack Hilden Brand that could probably use some help with a special motor he built. One member @Honk built a control circuit for him but it blew twice. Once you see his motor you will understand the level of creativity. This is not your standard GE motor so controlling it will definitely require someone with the know how. Here is a link to that thread;
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,2386.msg127900

You said it yourself;

"Just because we don’t yet know what it is, doesn’t mean it is excess energy. "
Yes but it does not mean it isn't either.

We need all the brains we can get on this forum. And maybe understand one main point, we all know what we are looking for is impossible, until it becomes possible. Maybe all your years with PWMs can be converted to helping out here.

Offline Hoppy

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2008, 09:47:13 PM »
@zpfe

You may be surprised to know that there are quite a few old boys on these forums with good electronics experience. I for one, being an old grey haired git have had my fair share of frustration at some peoples dire lack of even basic knowledge in electrics and electronics from people who seem to have made up their minds that EE is crap just because various people are shouting out about a new revolution in thinking about an energy being manifested in spinning wheels and the like that cannot be measured with EE measuring devices.

Having said this, I have little doubt that guys like John Bedini do genuinely believe in what they publish and do not deserve to be threatened with lawsuits just because others think they are just in it for money. I can think of many others in this world that are more deserved of this!

Personally, I do not think that the alternative ZP theory does fit what I have seen in over two years almost continuous experimentation as a retired Telecomms Planning Engineer. This does not mean that I dismiss it out of hand but I have seen a few strange things in my time that I cannot explain and these alone leave me open minded to any theory that comes along, no matter how crackpot.

Also, please appreciate that many people get enjoyment out of building things like spinning wheels and other 'free energy' devices irrespective of whether they have the capability of producing 'free energy' or not.

With respect your rant at this level is out of order, especially when you should have at least first checked out the viability of taking legal action and asking for group support!!

Hoppy

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #25 on: September 28, 2008, 09:47:13 PM »
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Offline Moab

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #26 on: September 28, 2008, 10:01:54 PM »
Hey,, I didnt know that OU.com had a humor section,,,, Thanks for the laugh... LOL! :D

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #27 on: September 28, 2008, 10:26:52 PM »
@zpfe

Lindeman and Bedini always say, that the OU effect comes inside
the batteries.
So it will not work with just charged capacitors.

So what batteries did you use ?

To my experience it needs the sparking at dissimular metal
contact points to convert this "plasma" contact point galvanic voltage and free electrons
due to oxidation and electron clustering at the sparking contact points to
recharge the batteries, so I guess solid state will not work well.
(Unless they use neon gas bulbs with it..)

Well, as you don´t like to post your documentation of your failures,
we don´t know how you tried it and what you might have done
differently or worng ?

So on what cases do you want to sue them ?

I think this does not help the case.
Better document your failures and demand
answers from them, what you have done wrong versus
their devices...

Regards, Stefan.



Offline tinu

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #28 on: September 28, 2008, 10:43:46 PM »
Hey,, I didnt know that OU.com had a humor section,,,, Thanks for the laugh... LOL! :D
Indeed, a very good laugh! I thank for it too!
Almost as good as seeing those buffoonery-science DVDs of that show-biz guru… aaa what was his name again… ‘Bendini’? Why not putting more money into his pocket solely for his artistic skills? lol

Thanks zpfe for sharing your true experience and for your kind intention. Unfortunately it is futile inhere.
Maybe it’s already redundant to say that I also confirm there is no such OU effect(s) and the man is an ordinary liar, selling woo-woo & mambo-jambo. He, or anyone proving otherwise, can sue me. I can’t wait.

Cheers,
Tinu

Offline WilbyInebriated

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Re: RFI: Bedini, bearden, lindemann class action lawsuite
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2008, 12:57:04 AM »
so are you guys suing these "scammers and liars"? or did you lose all your altruistic drive to rid the the world of such "lying scammers selling woo woo" when you learned it would cost you some $ and switched to this new tactic of waiting for them to sue you ala tinu?
keep us posted on how that works out will you?   ::)

as tinu said, such kind intention...

show-biz guru? john bedini? you're joking right? that's asinine, he's about as far from show-biz as one can get.

 

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