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Author Topic: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?  (Read 5784 times)

Offline Magnethos

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Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« on: September 22, 2008, 12:34:21 PM »
Why Zero Point Energy is called Zero Point energy?
Maybe is because we can't measure the frequency of that energy? And zero point means that energy hasn't frequency? Or why? Explain me more.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« on: September 22, 2008, 12:34:21 PM »

Offline Raui

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2008, 02:14:38 PM »
The reason why ZPE is called what it is is because it is the lowest amount of energy that a quantum mechanical system can have at any given point. This energy cannot be taken from the system as it is the absolute lowest amount of energy a quantum system will have within it when all other movement/energies are equal of that to 0.

Hope this helps.

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 02:42:36 PM »
At zero degress Kelvin (-273 degrees Celsius) all atomic motion stops. Zero degrees Kelvin is also refered to as absolute zero. However, there is still energy present - the zero point energy. So the name refers to the energy that is present even at absolute zero, the zero point. It's a bit of a misnomer though, since the energy is present all all other temperatures too.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2008, 02:42:36 PM »
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Offline nitinnun

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2008, 08:43:12 PM »
what materials in this quantum system,
are responsible,
for catching this zero point energy????


can ordinary elements catch and store ZPE energy?


especially heavy diamagnetic elements,
and heavy paramagnetic elements,
which are both together in a crystal?

Offline Raui

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 12:28:32 AM »
As it is the lowest amount of energy and cannot be taken out then it is fair to assume that no material can store it because this is taking it out of another quantum mechanical system :)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #4 on: September 23, 2008, 12:28:32 AM »
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Offline nitinnun

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 01:39:16 AM »
there is nothing more constructive, than saying:

you can't!
because it is impossible!


finer words have never been spoken......................

Offline Raui

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 09:01:15 AM »
If you're refering to the answer I gave to your question then explain to me where I have not sufficiently explained why materials cannot store or capture ZPE.

I stated that because ZPE is the lowest possible energy or field (if we are talking about a ZPF) it is therefore impossible to take it. Its like trying to take 1 from 0. Every material has its own ZPE density however this cannot be taken out. Think of it like when you have a big glass of water and after you've drunk all you can out of it theres still traces of water around the outside.

Hope that clears it up.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 09:01:15 AM »
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Offline FreeEnergy

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 11:43:01 AM »
defining Zero Point Energy in numbers
-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9



 
« Last Edit: September 23, 2008, 12:06:17 PM by FreeEnergy »

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »
If you're refering to the answer I gave to your question then explain to me where I have not sufficiently explained why materials cannot store or capture ZPE.

It's not clear to me. Assuming it is the lowest possible energy, why would that preclude someone from finding a way to accumulate it, resonate with it, or otherwise interact with it and make it do something. The Casimir effect is an example of just that. There must be something obvious to you about your statement that isn't to me.

I stated that because ZPE is the lowest possible energy or field (if we are talking about a ZPF) it is therefore impossible to take it. Its like trying to take 1 from 0.

But it isn't 0. It's 0.00000000001 for example's sake. Accumulate enough of those and you get 1.

Every material has its own ZPE density however this cannot be taken out. Think of it like when you have a big glass of water and after you've drunk all you can out of it theres still traces of water around the outside.

So? Sorry, I'm really just trying to understand your logic.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 03:03:10 PM »
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Offline Raui

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 03:43:19 PM »
It's not clear to me. Assuming it is the lowest possible energy, why would that preclude someone from finding a way to accumulate it, resonate with it, or otherwise interact with it and make it do something. The Casimir effect is an example of just that. There must be something obvious to you about your statement that isn't to me.

But it isn't 0. It's 0.00000000001 for example's sake. Accumulate enough of those and you get 1.

So? Sorry, I'm really just trying to understand your logic.
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

I'm just going by what I have read. Sorry if I do not make much sense, it would probably be my age or ignorance to ZPE. I didn't think about the Casimir Effect which has now got me feeling rather dumb. I will do a little more reading on the matter.

Offline Steven Dufresne

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2008, 04:19:58 PM »
@Raui, Let us know if you find an explanation in your reading. I've heard this sort of thing before but didn't think to question the speaker at the time. I have a feeling he might have just been repeating something he'd heard too.

what materials in this quantum system,
are responsible,
for catching this zero point energy????

@nitinnun, I just read your question again. In the standard model of physics, zero point energy is the thing that causes like charged particle to repel each other and oppositely charged particles to repel. Sadly, IMO, in that model zero point energy is treated as probability waves rather than real waves. The probability distributions define momentum, which moves the particles one way or the other.

In the Wave Structure of Matter (WSM) model the difference is that the waves are considered real waves traveling on a medium of space (just as water waves carry energy and travel on a medium of water.)

can ordinary elements catch and store ZPE energy?

In the Casimir effect, metal plates very close together interact with the ZPE, but they don't store it. I guess they do catch it since the plates move as a result. If you want to do some semi-constructive conceptual thinking about it, how would you store water waves? Or would you first take the energy from the water waves and transform it to another form that you could store, or another form that you could use right away? The Casimir effect transforms the ZP energy into mechanical energy. What complicates things is that the ZPE waves are more like a churning ocean with waves going in every direction at once. If this happens in the ocean you could place a floating buoy in it which would bob up and down rapidly but the buoy would have to be smaller than the size of a single wave otherwise the buoy would just float on top of the average of a bunch of waves. ZPE waves are very very small.

So the Casimir effect uses has a very very small gap between the metal plates, too small for some of those waves to exist in. Since those small wave do exist outside the plates, you have a net force pushing the plates together.

especially heavy diamagnetic elements,
and heavy paramagnetic elements,
which are both together in a crystal?

ZPE does interact with the particles to do the attraction and repulsion of charged particles mentioned above and with metal plates in the Casimir effect. Could there be a way of interacting using that fact somehow, some way that is dependent on the material?
-Steve
http://rimstar.org

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #10 on: September 23, 2008, 04:19:58 PM »
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Offline Magnethos

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #11 on: September 23, 2008, 07:27:57 PM »
@all
Thanks for the explanations.

Well, we know that we have to use special materials to tap energy from the ZPF. This is possible and T. Henry Moray shows that. Of course, the main secret of his radiant energy receiver was the tube, in the tube he used if I remember... a special material called Fluoroluminiscence Zinc, but I have to read at the papers again.

Nowadays, we're using copper as a conductor wire. This is a big mistake, if we look at the Tom Bearden theory about the relaxation time of a conductor. We could get easily free energy device using a speciall alloy as a conductor, exactly a doped semiconductor and play with the relaxation time factor. Of course, we also need to use Pulsed DC to make this possible, since we only would need Voltage and no amperage to run a device. So, the big problem that all of us make, is to use copper as a conductor wire.

Info and theories about the stuff I'm reading these days:
(http://img393.imageshack.us/img393/4954/vacum001th5.th.jpg)(http://img393.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif)

Offline nitinnun

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #12 on: September 23, 2008, 08:11:18 PM »
defining Zero Point Energy in numbers
-9-8-7-6-5-4-3-2-1-0+1+2+3+4+5+6+7+8+9

 



those numbers look EXACTLY like how my glue cell charges itself up!


the clockwise energy (+9),
is attracted to the steel,
and stored.

the counter-clockwise energy (-9),
is attracted to the copper (diamagnetic),
and stored.


the glue between these 2 metals, is made of:
carbon (diamagnetic),
oxygen (paramagnetic)
and hydrogen (diamagnetic),
 
the glue can conduct the clockwise  (+),
and the counter-clockwise (-).

yet the glue has so much electrical resistance,
due to the hydrogen polymers,
that it does not conduct electricity ( electricity is -9 mixed with +9 !)


the 2 metals with the dielectric glue between them, is a capacitor.
this CAPACITOR, dues store up electricity.
my glue cell takes times to charge up to full capacity, after i thuroughly short it out.

Offline Magnethos

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #13 on: September 23, 2008, 09:58:07 PM »
@nitinnum

Your explanation reminds me to the Negative Resistor of Gabriel Kron.

    “When only positive and negative real numbers exist, it is customary to replace a positive resistance by an inductance and a negative resistance by a capacitor (since none or only a few negative resistances exist on practical network analyzers).”

Offline ashtweth_nihilisti

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Re: Why Zero Point Energy is called...?
« Reply #14 on: September 24, 2008, 09:44:17 AM »
http://panacea-bocaf.org/zeropointenergy.htm
Dipole/course on ZPE coming soon on the uni site.

 

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