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Author Topic: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)  (Read 10642 times)

Offline evolvingape

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The Christmass presents are coming thick and fast this year so why not give you all another one...

After I finished releasing the power distribution model for the FESA over the last few days I was ready to settle down for a nice rest over Christmass... But alas, my creative streak kicked in and I began toying with something I have had on the back burner while the other projects were completed for release.

This is the Mini FESA...

The system schematic shows a DC Battery used to prime the HHO circuit. Once primed, the Mini Wankel is started and powers the PMA to continue fuel generation in a self sustaining loop.

The easiest way to test for overunity in this mini system is to simply add on a second Mini Wankel and PMA and dump that power into an immersion heater element inside a tank of water.

If the initial HHO cell, Mini Wankel and PMA can produce enough fuel to be self sustaining and provide fuel for the second Mini Wankel, PMA and immersion heater element then you have achieved overunity. This will be obvious by measuring the temperature and hopefully it will boil! (If the second Wankel even runs you have achieved overunity ;)

The Mini Wankel by OS Engines has a 4.97cc chamber so not a lot of HHO will be needed to run it. It also produces 1.27 HP at 18000 RPM. It will be necessary to use a reduction gear pulley ratio from the Wankel to the PMA or it will stall. About 9:1 should work well. (18000 : 2000 RPM)

A potential PMA you could use is the DC520 from windbluepower. Adjust your Dry Cell Bank to match the output from the PMA in the same way as described in the FESA HHO Dry Cell Bank Power Distribution Model.


The Mini Wankel has a glow plug as standard which is not the same as a spark plug. The glow plug heats the chamber and combusts the fuel through heat. The engine timing is automatic and is controlled by the engine RPM which is controlled by the needle valve on the carburetter which allows a variable amount of fuel through per cycle.

The glow plug may work perfectly well on its own and the carburetter can remain to control the size of the aperture the HHO is going through. The HHO fuel tube simply joined to the carburetter fuel intake.

Another option is to use a CDI which is a buzz coil to create a timing spark using a normal spark plug instead. The timing is achieved via a hall effect sensor and a Neodymium magnet mounted to the output shaft. You can get spark plugs with a glow plug thread so this is now a viable option.

Here are all the links you will need to inform yourself of the technology and to muse upon in case you decide to go shopping in the January sales!

49-PI Type II .30 Wankel Rotary Engine:

American CDI parts site:

UK based Ignition System for Glow Engines (Has Spark Plug with Glow Thread):

DC 520 PMA from Windbluepower (other PMA's can of course be used):

FESA HHO Dry Cell Bank Power Distribution Model:

Merry Christmass and a Happy New Year to ALL :)

Rob Mason :)

Offline leo48

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2010, 07:06:36 PM »

Merry Christmas to all

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2010, 05:28:58 AM »
1 HP = 746 W

HP x 746 = W

1.27 HP x 746 = 947.42 W

So the mini Wankel puts out 947 Watts @ 18,000 RPM.

947 W = 94.7 A x 10 V

10 off Dry Cells @ 9.47 A / Cell

4 off Neutral Plates @ 2 V 9.47 A / Plate Gap

947 W of electricity producing HHO at minimal electrolyte heating cost.

Custom made PMA's designed to produce 100 A 10 V @ 18,000 RPM are possible direct drive components to the mini Wankel.

Assuming 50 % losses in conversion 50 A 10 V would create a Bank of 5 Parallel @ 10 A 10 V / Cell and 5 Series at 2 V 10 A / Gap. 4 Neutral Plates per Cell.

The HHO gas output from this setup will be ?

Will it be enough to run the 4.97cc combustion chamber of the mini Wankel at 18,000 RPM with a Load of 947 Watts from the Fuel Bank converted via the PMA ?

Will there be excess Fuel available to run a 'secondary accessory drive' through a mini Wankel conversion from HHO Potential to Rotary Moment via Combustion ?

Merry Christmas to all :)

Offline Bentoptics

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #3 on: December 25, 2010, 07:06:49 AM »
I am intrigued by this small scale attempt but I am wondering how you will lubricate
the mini Wankel as it requires a minimum of 25% castor oil mixed with the fuel to prevent piston seizure.
I think at 17000 RPM you will need to rethink this type of motor.
Ideally you want a motor that will lubricate its self (such as a wet sump)
Here is a link for a 34cc 4 stroke motor  (
You could go as low as 26cc but you would have to find a couple of used Ryobi 4 stroke weed trimmers.
Sorry for being a Debbie downer this close to the holidays but its better to hear this than
Spend hard earned cash on a motor and have it fail without knowing it required oil to be
Mixed with the fuel.

Have a safe holiday.


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #4 on: December 25, 2010, 02:09:36 PM »
Hi BentOptics,

Thankyou for your reply. You have not put a downer on anything, you have actually just moved the project along substantially so everyone is thanking you :)

Ok so lets deal with the lubrication issue. Your right that in normal operation on traditional model RC fuels they mix oil in for lubrication. Obviously we cannot do this as our fuel is in an inert liquid state and the oil will be left behind when the liquid is converted into a gas fuel.

The potential solution that I see is using an oil reservoir from compressed air lines that they use for rotary tools in workshops. The rotary tool bearings need lubrication same as our engine does and they achieve this via the reservoir releasing small amounts of oil into the air as it passes under use.

A reservoir mounted on the carburetter intake would supply measured amounts of oil into the fuel mixture as it is sucked into the engine under vacuum. I think this would solve the problem with cheap off the shelf components.

I am puzzled why you refer to a piston seizure ? This is not a traditional ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) as we think of them, it has no pistons, the Wankel is a rotary engine with a single rotor. The bearings are the potential source of seizure in this design.

Here is a youtube video of the cutaway engine:

I agree with you that 17000 RPM operating speed is a potential problem and for what we are trying to do, undesirable. I will break down my thoughts on this into a few different sections:

17000 RPM has been built into this engine as it is designed for model airplanes running a propeller as the load. The propeller has to interact with a very thin fluid (air) and is the reason that high RPM is required.

Wind PMA's are designed to produce maximum power at very low speed, so they are the opposite of what we require for this project. This is the reason I suggested the 9:1 reduction pulley ratio. It will essentially convert the High RPM Low Torque of the engine into Low RPM High Torque for the PMA. Alternatively there may be some model RC reduction gearboxes knocking around at 9:1 ?

The other option is a custom PMA designed to produce the required Amp and Voltage ratings at 17000 RPM and could be mounted direct drive simplifying things somewhat.

This is the manufacturer of the AIXRO XR50:

The XR50 produces 33kW @ 8750 RPM with a 294cc chamber.

In development they have the XR20 which will produce 15kW + with a 160cc chamber.

So we are looking at around 10cc per kW output. This is awesome :)

If someone could convince either OS Engines the manufacturer of the mini Wankel or Woelfle that a 10cc Wankel with 10000RPM @ 1kW with maximum Torque was a good idea then they may sell a truckload of them :)

It is also interesting to note that Woelfle actually mention on the website that the Wankel rotary is capable of running on Hydrogen ;)

So in summary, I agree with you that the lubrication of the engine is an issue but I believe the technology is there off the shelf to solve the problem. I also believe we can work with the 17000 RPM of the mini Wankel, an off the shelf component and make progress.

The numbers I have posted clearly show there is potential in pursuing these designs. These are the scientific establishments own numbers, not mine, so they would have to agree with the conclusions or violate their own principles.

With the off the shelf mini Wankel, a custom PMA and the power distribution model I have suggested for the Fuel Bank I believe a novice could pursue this route and really feel that they are getting somewhere without having a system so powerfull it scares them.

The Glowplug potential for ignition is particularly exciting to me as I have never previously considered this option. The alternative Spark Plug CDI ignition timing is plug and play and familiar to engineers in theory so should offer an interesting route to explore.

With the cost of prototyping this being relatively low and the ease and simplicity of the bolt together components it may offer curious people a real opportunity to get into this specialist area in a way that they are comfortable and make progress, learning as they go.

If we can get just 500W of power from the engine into the Fuel Bank then we have an unprecedented opportunity to create HHO in sufficient quantity, with known technology, to run a 5cc chamber at 17000 RPM. This to me is a very exciting possibility :)

Merry Christmas to you :)

Offline evolvingape

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #5 on: December 25, 2010, 05:33:55 PM »
Ok everyone seems to be enjoying themselves so how about some advanced theory ?

This is the Pocket HELP prototype :)

17000 RPM taken as 1. HELP pump mechanical resistance lowers ongoing RPM via mechanical load applied. Moving fluid mass acts as Flywheel.

Resulting in lower driven speed of PMA requiring a modification of balance to produce 50 A 10 V at 8500 RPM, assuming fluid pump load of 50 %.

The rest is self explanatory :)

Any questions ?


(I have resized the image to remove the wide screen format. I also wrote the above when I was half cut earlier. Now I have slept it off I am not happy with what I wrote, there is an error in it regarding RPM. When the brain is working properly again I will have a proper think about it and post corrections. The hint of the possibility of wiring the HELP in Parallel - Series is not an error ;)
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 02:45:36 AM by evolvingape »

Offline Bentoptics

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #6 on: December 26, 2010, 05:14:15 AM »
Evolvingape, thanks for the comment
I have had experience many years ago with a mazda pickup that had a rotary motor so
sorry about me saying “piston” when it’s really called a “rotor”.
I read up on this motor you are looking into using and I think the reason it is not putting
out the torque is there are no apex seals on the “rotor” but rely on close tolerances.
The good part is you may not need the lubrication normally needed and can get away
with the atomized oil in the intake.
This is definitely on my watch list and I wish you the best.


Offline evolvingape

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Re: Merry Christmass Everyone... Heres another little pressie for you all :)
« Reply #7 on: December 26, 2010, 05:59:18 PM »
Hi BentOptics,

Thankyou for the reply :)

I believe the original Mazda Rotary engine had to be 're-classified' when it was first tested because it put out way more power for its chamber size than traditional piston ICE's.

Yes the mini Wankel not having Apex seals is not a perfect solution. The AIXRO XR50 on the other hand has ceramic Apex seals available as an option. The XR20 will probably have them available as well.

A quick fix that I can potentially see is using high temperature head gasket sealant to make your own gasket. Admittedly they are not ceramic but 'a seal' would be better than 'no seal'. If the seal does blow out or begin to leak then you can easily clean the old seal away and apply a new one and bolt it back together. This may increase the Torque rating of the engine temporarily for testing purposes. Custom laser cut ceramic gaskets may also be an option for people with money and facilities.

I am glad you think that the atomized oil in the intake may be sufficient lubrication. :) I do too :)

I myself will not be building any of the devices I have described. My financial situation dictates that I had a choice between sitting on this technology until my situation improved and then try to profit from my work, or release it in its entirety so that other people can finish what I started.

I chose option 2 as to do otherwise would violate the reasons I began this adventure in the first place. We are all reliant on other individuals building and testing my technologies and posting results that we can use to further our goals.

I hope one day that I can put my full time and energy into developing technologies that will benefit the human race and solve the problems our world faces. Unfortunately in the current Global Political Climate there are not jobs for people like me.

Here are the links to the other threads that have information on all my technologies, you may not have realised that they are all related:

Freedom Energy System Architecture:

Pulsed Electro Magnetic Hydro Electro Lytic Pump and System Architecture:

HELTA and Energy Conversion Theory Toolkit (ECTT):

Mechanical PWM Timed via Rotary Moment:

FESA HHO Dry Cell Bank Power Distribution Model:

As an interesting add on the Mechanical PWM thread talks about frequencies, If a mini Wankel was substituted for the DC Motor a much higher natural frequency could be attained (17000 RPM) with the cost being paid via HHO rather than electricity for timing purposes :)

Merry Christmas :)