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Author Topic: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination  (Read 80199 times)

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #60 on: April 12, 2009, 07:00:19 AM »
Excellent craftsmanship and test report Greg ;)

Do I understand this correctly!... the power consumed is 40ma from the 12.46vac side of the step down transformer and the motor turns at 960 RPM with load?

Could you do a no load test to see what the ma draw and RPM are.

Thanks for sharing

Luc


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Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #61 on: April 12, 2009, 04:42:10 PM »
Excellent craftsmanship and test report Greg ;)

Do I understand this correctly!... the power consumed is 40ma from the 12.46vac side of the step down transformer and the motor turns at 960 RPM with load?

Could you do a no load test to see what the ma draw and RPM are.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

Hi Luc,


Just did that now.  It goes 1359 RPM and 12.93 VAC @ 19.83 mA input to the bridge and cap ! !

Peace,

Greg

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2009, 05:39:56 PM »
Thanks Greg for doing this test.

That's a good RPM for the ma draw using a low voltage

Looking forward to the Torque tests.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #62 on: April 12, 2009, 05:39:56 PM »
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Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #63 on: April 12, 2009, 06:00:40 PM »
Thanks Greg for doing this test.

That's a good RPM for the ma draw using a low voltage

Looking forward to the Torque tests.

Thanks for sharing

Luc

On the previous test I just backed the braking magnet as far as it would go.  I did the test again but completely removed the braking magnet and the RPM peaked out at 1426 RPM.  The current didn't really budge ... down by only.05 mA.

Greg

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2009, 07:15:07 PM »
Hey Luc,

Check this out.  I took a look at my cap voltage only to find that it's sitting at 13.89VDC while the motor is running under load. So I started cranking the time scale down and saw what I think is going on with these pulsed motors.  I have never thought to crank it down to the nanosecond scale before which is why I never saw this stuff.

I have included three scope shots of the capacitor terminals:

Greg

This first capture shows the motor running and top of cap at a 500usec/div scale ... nothing spectacular so far.
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/keppe/keppe22.jpg

The next capture shows another somewhat familiar and expected picture of the coil's signature at 50usec/div
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/keppe/keppe23.jpg

But at the 10nanosecond scale you really see something incredible.  If you look at the areas under the trace you can see an appreciable amount of charging ABOVE the 13.89VDC average voltage.  In fact the scope is says +29VDC (lower right).  This appears to be a self-charging affect.  This is happening near Gigaherts frequencies and might be evidence of ZPE's contribution, scalar?
http://home.pacbell.net/gmeast/keppe/keppe24.jpg







« Last Edit: April 12, 2009, 07:58:55 PM by gmeast »

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #64 on: April 12, 2009, 07:15:07 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #65 on: April 13, 2009, 03:20:23 AM »
Hi Greg,

wow, 10ns is close to the max of my USB scope (4ns max)  That is very interesting.

Could this be the collapsing field jumping the gap at the reed switch opening?

I had to install a reed switch on my motor since the commutator I made did not last but unfortunately I took it off today to do a video of some new tests on the motor. You may want to try this also if you have a signal generator since you don't really need to take the switch off. Have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS4zmXU11A8

Keep me updated.

Luc

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2009, 04:41:02 AM »
Hi Greg,

wow, 10ns is close to the max of my USB scope (4ns max)  That is very interesting.

Could this be the collapsing field jumping the gap at the reed switch opening?

I had to install a reed switch on my motor since the commutator I made did not last but unfortunately I took it off today to do a video of some new tests on the motor. You may want to try this also if you have a signal generator since you don't really need to take the switch off. Have a look at this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TS4zmXU11A8

Keep me updated.

Luc

Fantastic!  Nice vid. Stupid little coreless motors.  It could be that phase shifting might be a good motor control optimizer.  You may have discovered a new 'PM motor mode' ... supply a PM motor coil with a fixed frequency and waveform (running the motor synchronously) and then loading the motor appropriately.

On my testing:  I'm learning from this Keppe motor investigation that I should rapidly pulse the input.  Also that pulse should be the shortest possible pulse-width and at a frequency higher than the coil's natural oscillation.  The coil's oscillation is only about 80KHz compared to the 100MHz of the phenomenon in that last scope capture.  So as you say, it might be that initial 'let loose' when the reed switch opens.

I am gaining somewhat of a clearer idea of what Newman has been trying to convey all these years.

Well your observations as well as the Keppe motor's characteristics are most intriguing.

Keep it up man.  That is really something,

Greg

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #66 on: April 13, 2009, 04:41:02 AM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #67 on: April 13, 2009, 05:53:41 AM »
Glad you liked it Greg ;D Stupid little coreless motors :P

Exactly!... that was my thought are also!... using multiple phases the motor would have much more potential and control.

Multiple super short pulses is also going to be built into my new motor, that's why I bought 50 pcs. of 20mm Rhodium reed switches on eBay for $1. http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=370182987793   the idea is also for the new motor Air Core Coils to go into Resonance once the motor is at speed. The new magnet rotor will have 4 poles N-S-N-S. The shaft will have a large diameter timing disk to which the multiple reed trigger magnets can be precisely position to create the super short duty cycle and the multiple reeds will be creating the polarity flip creating the AC square wave for the coils which is an essential for resonance. No more electronic components switching circuits for me. It's back to the basic switch.

All these new ideas started grinding in my mind since I pulled the motor off the shelf to show you.

Let me know of any of your thoughts.

Luc

ADDED: Oh ya!, I started a new topic since I was so impressed with this new finding called "AC Permenent Magnet Motor" : http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=7230.0

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »
Hi all,

Well here are a couple of views of my Keppe motor, moment arm anvil and digital scale.  The scale has a resolution (and I hope the accuracy) of 0.2g.  The moment arm is 2.375 inches.

So far the pulsing of the motor interferes with the sample rate of the scale.  I'm trying several techniques to damp the support frame or change the inertial moment of the support frame.  So far it has been frustrating.

Thanks,

Greg


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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #68 on: April 16, 2009, 06:31:59 PM »
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Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #69 on: April 17, 2009, 07:18:20 AM »
Thanks for the pics Greg, nice work!!! I am also building a Keppe Motor, I will be sure to share my progress with you guys here. I do have the one for sale up and running and it works great. Has anybody tried to influence the motor with a large magnet? I held a huge round earth magnet near the running motor and it actually speeds up a great deal. You have to find the "sweet spot" but I doubled and even tripled my rpms.

Best,

Will

Hi Isdaudio,

I did place a magnet near my Keppe motor and got the same effect.  I also monitored the current draw frof the motor and it increased also.  I turned the magnet over and the motor slowed and the current dropped too.  It is very interesting that you can cause more power to flow in the motor by using a static, external PM field.

When is the Keppe Motor Team going to disclose the rest of the 'inner workings' of the Keppe motor.  From my tests the 'demo motor appears to be very inefficient as it stands.  You claim to be on the 'inside' with the engineers there.  I think for those of us that had the respect and consideration to actually 'pay' for the manual, all of the 'inner workings' should be disclosed.

Why don't you get that information for us?  I'm not getting any information out of the Keppe Motor Club either.  I'll just keep testing and post my results as they come in.

Thank you,

Greg

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2009, 03:30:21 AM »
Hi everyone,

I have somewhat resolved my torque measurement issue involving my small digital scale (sample rate issues).

I am posting here my first (mostly) complete data:
The torque data comes from a small digital scale (-+ 0.2g)
The current comes form a shunt = 5.1 ohms. No correction was made for the power dissipated by the shunt, so there's some more to add to the output efficiency.

Load: 2 grams @ 2.33 inch torque arm
Voltage: Pulse 16VDC
Current: approx 75% of 0.196A Peak = 0.147Aavg
  (see picture - classic R-L inductor charge curve)
Pulse Duty Cycle: approx 13%
Motor Speed: 1001RPM

Results:
Input Power: 0.30576 Watts
Output Horsepower: 0.000163022 H.P.
Output Equivalent: 0.124615 Watts

Efficiency: about 40% (without shunt power figured in)

I think this is all right but any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg

Ch2 is the 5.1 ohm current shunt

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #70 on: April 18, 2009, 03:30:21 AM »
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Offline alessiof76

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #71 on: April 21, 2009, 09:35:24 PM »
I have found the Keppe Motor manual on
...
Link deleted due to copyright infringement (admin)
« Last Edit: July 07, 2009, 04:03:39 PM by hartiberlin »

Offline alessiof76

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #72 on: April 22, 2009, 09:54:24 PM »
for gmeast:
You have tried to measure the energy lost to friction?

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #73 on: April 23, 2009, 03:27:52 AM »
for gmeast:
You have tried to measure the energy lost to friction?


Hi alessiof76,

I ran it by hand  in both directions and watched the gram scale.  It only loads .5 grams in either direction.  The bearings are very good, but 0.5 grams is still 25% percent waste tho.

 I have not put a diode to recover any power from the field at the reed switch nor tried to run a neon lamp yet ... that's next.  This kind of dyno washes out the drag from the inner bearings but unfortunately not the outer bearings ... gives you net power minus outer bearing(s) drag.

Thanks for commenting,

Greg

Offline gmeast

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Re: Keppe Motor simular to Newman-Bedini combination
« Reply #74 on: April 23, 2009, 08:20:03 PM »
Hi all,

I contacted the Keppe Motor people from their website to ask if the Version 3 manual was available yet.  I got a prompt reply that it was and they provided the link.  As some of you know there is a contract they want you to agree to and in that contract (clause 6) it states the Ver 3 manual costs $50.00 and the Ver 3 Kit costs $350.00.

As I stepped through the process the PayPal site came up with an 'Amount Due' of $250.00 ! @%$#&...so I sent them off an email asking them to fix that so no one gets taken on a technicality.

So be careful with you 'clicks'.  Just a friendly heads-up for now.  I think I'll wait for the Ver 3 to leak onto the internet like the Ver 1 did.

Greg

 

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