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Author Topic: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)  (Read 63026 times)

Offline DaS Energy

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #90 on: December 04, 2013, 07:32:54 AM »
;D  People,
What is so unexpected about a heat pump?
It still amazes me why peple are astonished when they hear that  a heat pump gives for exmple  4kW of heat for 1 kW electricity used. Every refrigerator is doing the same.
People are using stuff every day without even thinking why and how it works.
Principle is well known and simple.
As ambient air that surrounds us has certain temperature ( thermal energy stored) if you have a working media that has lower evaporating temperature- it will absorb that energy during phase change from liquid to gas.So even if there is minus 5 deg.C outside, and freon has evaporating temperature , let's say minus 25 deg.C- there is a 20 deg.C temperature difference available for heat transfer.
Electrically driven cmpressor compresses this gas to the pressure ( and higher temperature) where gas goes back to liquid- giving off energy previously absorbed from ambient air.
So, there is no any energy "gain" or "free energy".There is simple "energy transfer" thanks to the low temperature boiling liquid.Overall efficiency is less than 100%.
Or simpler explanation : refrigerator or a heat pump works like that :  A LARGE VOLUME OF LOW GRADE HEAT ( let's say outside air of temperture minus 5 deg.C)  IS "COMPRESSED" TO  SMALLER VOLUME OF  HIGH GRADE HEAT ( let's say 60 deg.C) THAT IS USABLE. That is all.
Regards,
Pix

Hello Pix that you talk of is correct. Using refrigerant R744 (CO2) the heat source must be above -30*C. Absorption refrigerator mechanics provides the driver gas cooling without assistance.  Energy to electricity conversion is done by 82% efficient Pelton turbine. Power production is 720 watts for each litre per second at 9 bar pressure. Home made simplicity done by cut and weld of pipe.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline lancaIV

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #91 on: December 04, 2013, 12:21:51 PM »
DasEnergy : you are not forgotten ;)
But it is also Imperative to the australian Youth (DasEnergy macht Kinder froh und Erwachsene ebenso) and their international neighbour
to work on this field,together.


Sincerely
               OCWL

Offline profitis

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2013, 08:42:06 PM »
greater than 100% efficiency heat pump? You only have to look at the karpen battery.in that cell you will have decompression of oxygen gas at one electrode and compression at the other.one electrode cools down while the other heats up,spontaneous.a fantastic smash of the thermodynamics laws which no-one can contest and when i say no-one i mean no-one.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #92 on: December 04, 2013, 08:42:06 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline DaS Energy

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #93 on: December 05, 2013, 12:55:44 AM »
Hello OCWL,

" Imperative to the australian Youth (DasEnergy macht Kinder froh und Erwachsene ebenso) and their international neighbour to work on this field,together."

Most happy to assist. Turbine and casing are off the shelf, however the frictionless DaS Compressor is home built. Its centre piece is the turbine shaft.

Regards

Peter

Offline markdansie

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2013, 03:22:44 AM »
More energy and out is myth. It is real when it comes to the calculations for the transitions, but as everyone found out in history it can not be converted to mechanical energy, i.e. the cop 3x can not be translated as it only relates to phase change calculations. ,H vae seen this fail many times in practice.
Sorry for the bad news, its just the way it is
Mark

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #94 on: December 05, 2013, 03:22:44 AM »
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Offline DaS Energy

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #95 on: December 05, 2013, 03:28:00 AM »
Hello Mark,

"More energy and out is myth. It is real when it comes to the calculations for the transitions, but as everyone found out in history it can not be converted to mechanical energy, i.e. the cop 3x can not be translated as it only relates to phase change calculations. ,H vae seen this fail many times in practice.  Sorry for the bad news, its just the way it is Mark"

Example one litre of gas at 100 psi. The gas pushing on water. Pelton turbine wheel firstly converts 82% of the up water force to electricity.  Francis turbine next converts 82% of the down water force to electricity. Gas turbine then converts 60% of the leaving gas force to electricity. Total energy conversion 222%.

Offline lancaIV

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2013, 04:42:24 AM »
greater than 100% efficiency heat pump? You only have to look at the karpen battery.in that cell you will have decompression of oxygen gas at one electrode and compression at the other.one electrode cools down while the other heats up,spontaneous.a fantastic smash of the thermodynamics laws which no-one can contest and when i say no-one i mean no-one.

Repeating:
As source:
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19880531&CC=US&NR=4747925A&KC=A
and the thermoelectric converter-based by Karpen technology research- by the romenian Prof. Dr. Matei Marinescu
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=3&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19770802&CC=US&NR=4039352A&KC=A


http://www.faxmedia.ro/personalitatea-zilei/matei-marinescu/152.htmlPersonality Day - Matthew Marinescu Academician Matthew Marinescu was born on April 1, 1903 in Bucharest .... A few months after his 80 years on August 28, 1983 passed away Romanian scientist , academician Matthew Marinescu . He was born on April 1, 1903 in Bucharest. He attended Polytechnic School of capital which he graduated in 1926. A scholarship Directorate General P.T.T. gave him the opportunity to specialize in technical high school weak currents Telecommunications in Paris , which has obtained a degree two years later . In the laboratories of the schools achieve their phone and also the first invention was patented in Romania , England and Germany, microphone mulitcelular . It is also a time to study ultrasound specialize in automatic telephone exchange in London , because in 1942 to acquire doctoral degree and doctor of technical sciences lecturer in Bucharest with the thesis " Contributions to achieve thermionic amplifiers " . In 1948 it became member of the Academy and is also known elected member of Electricians in Paris society . It worked for a while , since 1929 , the automation of telephone exchanges in the country and has achieved great practical utility in combating disturbances suffered from the line. He made ​​contributions in a broad range of technical issues , including electric cars, sonicitatea , Automatic , thermoelectricity , cells internal combustion electrocomunicaţiile and electroacoustic . His " Microdifuzorul " (1932 ) was awarded the " Gheorghe Lazar " of the Romanian Academy . Matthew Marinescu has developed a new theory of thermoelectric phenomena and discovered a " thermoelectric effect " that bears his name . Holder of patents in Romania , UK , USA, Germany for a new type of " Oscilomotor " ( alternative linear motion electric motor ) - applied to compressors , refrigerators, etc.de also a new type of electric generator he called " thermoelectric " state gave all its patents for inventions . He is the author of a treatise " Broadcast Electrodynamics " (1957 ) thereof " under electrocaustică " from us ( 1953-1955 ) in two volumes, numerous monographs , studies and communications. Academy celebrated the anniversary of 70 years (1973 ) , acad.Remus Răduleţ reveals his " total dedication , passion and energy of craters in science."

Search and Research and Development never ends


Sincrely
             OCWL
« Last Edit: December 05, 2013, 02:28:26 PM by lancaIV »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #96 on: December 05, 2013, 04:42:24 AM »
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Offline lancaIV

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #97 on: December 05, 2013, 05:18:33 AM »
heat(= brownian motion above zero-degree Kelvin) pump
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?DB=EPODOC&II=0&ND=3&adjacent=true&locale=en_EP&FT=D&date=19901016&CC=US&NR=4963073A&KC=A
similar: www.papapump.com   p.ump a.ctivated p.ressure a.mplifiers


Sincerely
              OCWL

Offline Johan_1955

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2013, 05:33:33 AM »
More energy and out is myth. It is real when it comes to the calculations for the transitions, but as everyone found out in history it can not be converted to mechanical energy, i.e. the cop 3x can not be translated as it only relates to phase change calculations. ,H vae seen this fail many times in practice.
Sorry for the bad news, its just the way it is
Mark


Hi Mark,


That your disapointed, is maybe your choice of .........


---------------------


Combustion engine: for example 10 Kw and as we know only 30-35% to mechanical.


But he is producing almost a 30Kw of Heat, over cooling and Exhaust, use it.


Regards, Johan

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #98 on: December 05, 2013, 05:33:33 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #99 on: December 05, 2013, 07:44:42 PM »
aha @markdansie but mechanical conversions are horrid efficiencies.what if we found a way to directly convert to electric energy or direct to chemical energy at say,85% efficiency,the books balance may tilt in our favour.what if we integrated the whole heat pump energy cycle into a singular step to energy conversion,might make the balance tilt.

Offline profitis

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2013, 07:50:27 PM »
@ lanca you and me should try to figure a way to efficient oxygen gas related cold fusion and make a few more millions than rossi et al.imagine the advantages of oxygen/air powered cold fusion over hydrogen,and i,same as you, believe its very possible..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #100 on: December 05, 2013, 07:50:27 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline lancaIV

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #101 on: December 06, 2013, 04:07:21 PM »
                                                                           profitis:this is my flexible response
@ Peter(DasEnergy) you and me should try to figure a way to efficient oxygen(ammoniac/carbonoxid) gas related thermodynamic processes
(cold fusion=hydrogen related) and make a few more thousands/millions than Rossi et al.
Imagine the advantages of oxygen/air powered thermodynamic machines (cold fusion over hydrogen),and I,same as you, believe its very possible..

 They searched for "Dealer profits are nearly (up to:HeatMax) 600% https://web.archive.org/web/20040727052034/http://www.irdusa.com/
Inventor Dr. Robert Kane :
                                            For example FishMax(R) - Electronic Fish Atractor
"The FishMax attracts salt and freshwater fish by sending out a special electricity frequency which is irresistible to fish....... ."
                                  Splash- und ne Meerjungfrau war an der Schnur (betimmt  :P Sternkreiszeichen "FISCH")
                                                                      mut nu`nur noch die Chips erangeln


Petri Heil :o
              OCWL


p.s.: SonicMax uses a pulsed signal to emit,low frequency sonic waves through a single resonator......
        The low-frequency vibration also creates a resonating boundary layer of water that surrounds ......


        There are many people who writes so looooong about resonance during other do fishing and do time-parallel  de-son(h)ar/signing
                                                                                                                                                  harmonic resonance

Offline PulseFuelNerd

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Re: The heatpump, with more energy out than in (FACT)
« Reply #102 on: December 26, 2013, 04:20:50 AM »

Consider a mini split AC system modified to heat a 55 gallon drum of water and also to chill a second 55 gallon drum of water.

Think of this as a calorimeter test to determine (Joules heated + Joules chilled) / Joules of input energy.

Liquid exchange is many times more efficient than air exchange.

Wikipedia/SEER has a link to the highest liquid exchange AC available for purchase today. A 75 SEER is somewhere around 18.0 COP.

Is it reasonable to expect a 18/1 benchmark result from such a test?

EDIT: Would this be a (18+18)/1 benchmark result {ie 36 COP)?

 

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