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Author Topic: Burning water video  (Read 36105 times)

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 05:23:32 PM »
Hi Stefan

Just got to say that this HHO term has always bugged me - what exactly is HHO supposed to be? 2 monatomic hydrogen atoms and a monatomic oxygen atom? 

I know it gets used extensively around here, but what is it? Because if it is simply the resulting H2 and O2 from an electrolyser then it really is incorrect and misleading - and certainly doesn't make any sense. 

And, while on the subject, the other thing I find rather bizzare is that I often see mention of the gases evolved by an electrolyser called Brown's gas, when it is simply the common ducted gases H2 and O2. Is Brown - whoever he is -taking the credit for discovering that water breaks down into H2 and O2 when a current is passed through it... for creating the electrolyser?  I think old Michael would have something to say about that!

Anyway, with reference to Kanzius, it will be nice to know exactly what the gas/es given off are, because as anyone who has built an electrolyser knows, the resulting gas pops and explodes when ignited. I've never seen a steadily burning lazy flame from an electrolyser.

There are a few theories as to what is happening, but none carry any real substance, nor are they at present backed by any real science.

We know it does not work unless the water is doped with NaCl, but we don't know if other good electrolytes will also work - I suspect they will.

However, simply causing the water to self-ionise will not produce H2 and O2. It is only the case that in a standard electrolyser the resulting H+ and OH- have plates in which to pick up and lose charges that we get H2 and O2 produced.  With no electrodes in Kanzius's discovery to provide or take charges, it does tend to suggest that ionisation of water may not be the main cause of the resulting gases and so does rather beg the question... what the hell is going on?

You need to have a good understanding of how basic electrolysis works in order to see why this discovery is so very different from the electrolysis everyone is used to, and indeed why the science here is so much more mysterious.

I feel quite sure that this is probably far more interesting and indeed intriguing than many people realise.

However, it's been nearly two years since Kanzius announced his discovery and little if nothing more has been publicised. I now fully expect that we will hear no more of it until they want to sell it to us, as no doubt greed will have shown it's ugly head, and the big money merchants will by now have claimed all the rights.  I guess time will tell.

But it is a good place for all budding garage experimenters to start as, for once, it does seem to be a very geniune discovery.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #15 on: February 28, 2009, 05:23:32 PM »

Offline professor

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #16 on: February 28, 2009, 10:19:25 PM »
Hi Stefan

Just got to say that this HHO term has always bugged me - what exactly is HHO supposed to be? 2 monatomic hydrogen atoms and a monatomic oxygen atom? 

I know it gets used extensively around here, but what is it? Because if it is simply the resulting H2 and O2 from an electrolyser then it really is incorrect and misleading - and certainly doesn't make any sense. 

And, while on the subject, the other thing I find rather bizzare is that I often see mention of the gases evolved by an electrolyser called Brown's gas, when it is simply the common ducted gases H2 and O2. Is Brown - whoever he is -taking the credit for discovering that water breaks down into H2 and O2 when a current is passed through it... for creating the electrolyser?  I think old Michael would have something to say about that!

Anyway, with reference to Kanzius, it will be nice to know exactly what the gas/es given off are, because as anyone who has built an electrolyser knows, the resulting gas pops and explodes when ignited. I've never seen a steadily burning lazy flame from an electrolyser.

There are a few theories as to what is happening, but none carry any real substance, nor are they at present backed by any real science.

We know it does not work unless the water is doped with NaCl, but we don't know if other good electrolytes will also work - I suspect they will.

However, simply causing the water to self-ionise will not produce H2 and O2. It is only the case that in a standard electrolyser the resulting H+ and OH- have plates in which to pick up and lose charges that we get H2 and O2 produced.  With no electrodes in Kanzius's discovery to provide or take charges, it does tend to suggest that ionisation of water may not be the main cause of the resulting gases and so does rather beg the question... what the hell is going on?

You need to have a good understanding of how basic electrolysis works in order to see why this discovery is so very different from the electrolysis everyone is used to, and indeed why the science here is so much more mysterious.

I feel quite sure that this is probably far more interesting and indeed intriguing than many people realise.

However, it's been nearly two years since Kanzius announced his discovery and little if nothing more has been publicised. I now fully expect that we will hear no more of it until they want to sell it to us, as no doubt greed will have shown it's ugly head, and the big money merchants will by now have claimed all the rights.  I guess time will tell.

But it is a good place for all budding garage experimenters to start as, for once, it does seem to be a very geniune discovery.



However, it's been nearly two years since Kanzius announced his discovery and little if nothing more has been publicised. I now fully expect that we will hear no more of it until they want to sell it to us, as no doubt greed will have shown it's ugly head, and the big money merchants will by now have claimed all the rights.  I guess time will tell.

I don't think that will happen  regretfully I must inform you that Kanzius  recently has passed away succumbing to his own Cancer.

I agree about the Gas but what if only hydrogen and Chlorine are produced? Without Oxygen I don't think it would go pop crackle bang. acetylene burns slow if you add oxygen it changes its volatility.
Much more of importance is whether a different frequency was tried and whether it was a modulated Carrier of whatever type of modulation causing the separation rather than the Carrier 13.56 Mhz is half of 27.02 Mhz a CB band frequency.
I am willing to bet that this was the reason for choosing that particular frequency. I would think that 27MHz would work equally well.But I believe that the modulation frequency and waveshape were the deciding factors for the separation
professor.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 10:48:04 PM »
Too bad, that Kanzius died recently,
but his technology will live on and make him
undieable !

Have a look at this video to fight cancer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhqMeF6SSlM&NR=1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #17 on: February 28, 2009, 10:48:04 PM »
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Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #18 on: February 28, 2009, 11:39:30 PM »
Hi Prof

Yes I'd heard Kanzius had died, but his discovery is now already out there - let's just hope it doesn't mysteriously disappear into a X-file! It's just a shame Kanzius isn't going to be around to see where it all leads. One thing for sure though, from the videos, Kanzius was as much in the dark about this phenomena as anyone else.

As this is nothing like standard electrolysis, I don't see why we should particularly expect chlorine to be evolved. I too had originally considered this, though as you probably know chlorine is extremely toxic, somewhat visible and has a very distinctive smell. I think scientists would have noticed this gas before ignition... and hence at least mentioned this at some point.

Kanzius would not have chosen 13.56 MHz as a specific frequency as he would be limited to the available allocated frequencies, and I simply assumed that 13.56 MHz was the closest frequency available to him for inducing eddy currents into the nano particles. I've never heard word of it being modulated, but maybe it was - there may well be gaps in what was published. 

The electrochemistry involved will answer most of our questions - should they ever be determined and divulged that is.

Without the oxygen you still get the hydrogen pop, there is more than enough oxygen in air - I've tried this. Perhaps though if chlorine is being evolved this acts as a dampener.

Obviously energy is being absorbed into the electrolyte, but what electrochemical reactions are at work is the puzzle.

Could it be that the absorbed energy is causing the sodium ion to capture an electron from somewhere and so become a sodium atom, which by it's very nature is violently reactive with water, producing hydrogen. Just hypothesising.

More questions than answers at the moment.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline aussepom

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2009, 04:02:18 AM »
Hi there
Now this pic will show you  REAL WATER BURNING ,
 no electronics, a DIY rocket motor, the water, a small amount was heated up by a chemical reaction, this was just to start it off,
then once at the temperature of close to 3,000deg c the, the small amount,  the rest  of the water was pumped through the rocket motor, 50lts burnt in 12 seconds.  this was witnessed by 'a friend' of mine' in Canada, the he sent me the picture. the person that did this was 'persuaded' not to continue' never was heard of again.
the Oz Injector should perform similar.
 how ever the 'Oz Injector' will be controllable, so yes experimenting with the 'plasma effect' with sparks plugs, shows the effect of what can be done, imaging, one liter of water turning instantaneously into NOT HYDROXCY, BUT INTO FULLY DISASSOCIATED HYDROGEN AND OXYGEN. all at the same instant ignited, 3,700 lts of gas flame at a temperature of 2,800deg C
when this happens according to the  'real professors' if this were to happen, the Hydrogen and the Oxygen have FULLY SEPARATED but still in close proximity to each other will try to RECOMBINE in doing so will GIVE UP ENERGY of the same amount that took to separate them.
well that should give you some thing to talk about.
aussepom

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #19 on: March 01, 2009, 04:02:18 AM »
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Offline BEP

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #20 on: March 01, 2009, 05:39:40 AM »
Just an FYI....

13.56 mHz +/- .007 mHz is an allocated frequency band for ISM (Industrial, Scientific, Medical).

The inventor would have been very aware of this. There is almost no chance the frequency was chosen for best production of gas. It was surely chosen only because that frequency was 'allowed'.

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2009, 11:33:18 AM »
Hi Bep

I totally concur with your last post.

And, with reference to modulation, I'm not sure this would be required if it's simply a case of inducing eddy currents into the nano particles. I don't believe an induction furnace would need or employ a modulated signal.

Aussepom, without knowing what your mate was adding to the water in the first place it's hard to comment. Your post simply does not provide enough information to work with.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #21 on: March 01, 2009, 11:33:18 AM »
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Offline aussepom

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #22 on: March 01, 2009, 12:44:41 PM »
Hi there
               To start with his is a contact on the web who I have trusted a number of thing with him.
He was not the one conducting the experiment, just an observer.
There was defiantly only a chemical added to the small amount of water to get a reaction to cause heat.
To full disassociate by heat water needs to get to around 3,000deg C, the chemical that was added was to promote this reaction.
Once up to that temperature you only need to just keep adding water.
To my knowledge you can only fully separate hydrogen from the water with electrolysis if you use a membrane filter.
There are a number of chemicals that will react violently with water, I am not a chemical engineer, but when I did my dangerous good license you were told of some and what chemical not to carry with another. The military use a process to do this.
aussepom

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 01:04:10 PM »
Aussepom

Chuck a lump of sodium in some water and you get a good reaction. Lots of heat and lots of H2, no membrane needed.

It does look like a giant hydrogen torch of sorts.  There must surely be something other than water to maintain the reaction. But simply not enough info to make any educated comment or observations.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2009, 01:04:10 PM »
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Offline professor

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #24 on: March 01, 2009, 10:13:33 PM »
Just an FYI....

13.56 mHz +/- .007 mHz is an allocated frequency band for ISM (Industrial, Scientific, Medical).

The inventor would have been very aware of this. There is almost no chance the frequency was chosen for best production of gas. It was surely chosen only because that frequency was 'allowed'.

Not sure if this  Frequency is allocated for that purpose in the U.S. I know that a Channel in the CB Band is. RFID Devices use this Frequency and so does  a RF Plasma Device. The PRF-1150 module produces 1000W CW of RF output at 13.56MHz http://www.directedenergy.com/pdf/rf-1150_data_sheet.pdf

The secret as mentioned various times may lie in the modulation maybe he modulated it with  the waters resonant frequency?
If that was the Secret of course we would never have heard about it.
I have been experimenting with the Rife Device  which operates on a combination of two base frequencies that do absolutely nothing but light up a Plasma which is Modulated at the Cancer or Bacteria frequency.
It does the killing not the RF. Kanzius was very aware of Rife's work.
Yes he stumbled accidentally upon that effect as this was not the purpose of his invention.
Sodium in electrolysis causes the production of Chlorine not saying that it did because with Kanzius .
I have not duplicated his experiment nor have we heardfrom kanzius or anyone else on his team making that statement.
It is mere speculation on my part.
professor

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2009, 11:08:49 PM »
Prof

You talk about modulating the frequency to that of waters resonant frequency - what do you think this is? 

I ask as I feel pretty sure that it would be much greater than 13.56MHz - I presumed that's what microwave ovens did at 2.4GHz

Not sure what you mean by this:

Quote
Sodium in electrolysis causes the production of Chlorine not saying that it did because with Kanzius

As obviously it is chlorine ions in the water that provides chlorine gas in standard electrolysis, not sodium.

I'm a little in the dark with your reference to the Rife Device as I've never heard of it or of Rifes work, but I would think this is very different to using nano particles like Kanzius was.  If you are familiar with an induction furnace, you will know that what Kanzius was doing with the metallic nano particles makes perfect sense and would seem a lot less complicated than trying to find a specific resonant frequency of a cancerous cell.

I just wish that there was an electrochemist out there somewhere that might be able to shed some light on the electrochemical reaction.  I've not even heard any theories as to the reaction/s taking place.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Burning water video
« Reply #25 on: March 01, 2009, 11:08:49 PM »
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Offline aussepom

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2009, 04:37:21 AM »
Hi
        the 13.56meg is purely a governmental thing, it is an international  standard for all RF heating, and other industrial applications. it is a set narrow band just for this.

This applies to the microwaves as well, it is the closest frequency allowed that will 'vibrate the water molecules' as in friction action to heat them up.  Yes the 'natural resonant frequency' for water is a little higher' I have it some where in my notes.  It will not help though, to get enough RF power required, at that frequency is hard enough, the specialize equipment, the FET's alone will cost a fortune, you would have to have at lease a full bridge. Then you would have to fight the government to get the licensing changed to allow you to do it. then, there is the RF radiation from that amount of power. You see I will have only a problem with the 'Oz Injector' when I put 40 of them together, if I get that far, this number can run a 500MW generating power station, but a problem, 50MW of RF to be shielded. Yes that all the power input I need to get an output of 500MW, there is a lot to it it is not that easy.
aussepom   

Offline ramset

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2009, 04:56:26 AM »
aussepom

Do you have more info on your Oz injector?

Chet

Offline aussepom

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #28 on: March 02, 2009, 06:14:22 AM »
Hi ramset
                    oh yes , depending on what you want to know, how it works not at this stage.
 what is expected to do, yes some of this information is available, but if you can imaging 4cubic metres of burning gas at over 2,000deg C, that is spewing out at 4,000 ltrs per min.
The unit is built, there is a vid on one site only, the builders forum. it is just the unit, I have to finalize the electronics to drive it yet, this is costly and intricate. My funds are low at the moment but it is getting better.
The unit would be able to be retro fitted into any reasonable size boiler, for water heating, steam generation, for the power industry, even into a STEAM TRAIN.
 There is a 'new style of jet. I have named the 'Oz Jet' it could be capable of working in high altitudes, and even space, it does not need air to work, but it does help alot more if it is available.
it technically could work underwater to a depth over 400metre.
well you asked for it, this is all WITHOUT BREAKING ANY OF THE KNOWN LAWS.
aussepom 

Offline Farrah Day

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Re: Burning water video
« Reply #29 on: March 02, 2009, 10:41:35 AM »
Sorry Aussepom, but you are incorrect here.

The very term microwave indicates an RF in the GHz range.  Microwave ovens do operate at around 2.4GHz

 

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