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Author Topic: Bessler Wheel design  (Read 29672 times)

Offline KoenL

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Bessler Wheel design
« on: October 26, 2005, 04:41:22 PM »
Alright Stefan, mainly because you requested it, but
also for others to ponder, here is my recent Bessler Wheel
design.

Of course it is based on descriptions of and clues about the functioning
of the apparatus by Bessler, his king and some eyewitnesses.
Some of the most remarkable of these are his kings note that the inner
workings of the wheel were very simple, that they consisted of nothing
more than weights, levers and springs/strings, and that he was himself
baffled by the simplicity of the device when he was finally allowed a look
at the mechanism. Other clear clues are Besslers hints that 1) the wheel
uses at least 6 and preferably 8 or more equal weights, 2) the weights work
in pairs, and 3) the 'punctus quietus', point of balance, should never be reached
by the weights because of their own actions. Witnesses have reported hearing
about 8 bangs eacht rotation, on the rim of the wheel, on the side where it
moves down, and being shown a lead weight with fixture holes on the sides by
Bessler, and hearing a string or spring make its typical sound when it slipped
as Bessler attempted to reattach the weight.
Most will probably know these things.
 
Anyway, I was just doodling around, sketching different versions of an extremely
simple arrangement based on Besslers clues, when I came across one design
that seemed interesting. A quick and dirty calculation appeared to show a
permantent imbalance to one side... Later, a slightly less dirty but still not
reliable calculation seemed to bring the average point of gravity a little closer
to the point of balance (meaning in a vertical line with the wheels axle), but still
offset to one side...
A much more elaborate calculation was started but never finished, so I cannot be certain yet.
 
For your viewing pleasure, study, remarks, comments, suggestions, etc,
I hereby present to all of you a digital version of my sketched design.
I welcome any and all reactions, and invite any of you who are interested
to show why it will or will not work. I've decided to await reactions, but am
considering to construct a test version with something easy like Lego Technic
or Meccano or something like that... Unless one of you guys points out why it
can't work and I am convinced of course. ;-)

Caller number one? ;-)

Note to all: this is my design, if anyone wants to replicate this design in any form,
contact me. Also, for additional info or explanation, you may contact me.


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Bessler Wheel design
« on: October 26, 2005, 04:41:22 PM »

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #1 on: October 26, 2005, 05:08:14 PM »
Hi Koen,
where are the springs in this design ?
Do they connect every 2 weights ?
I think springs are a MUST for a Bessler design,
cause you have to store the potential energy in
them , so if a weight has gone down, it could be
pulled up againin the next cycle and the trick must be
to just shift the lever arms with the weights to one side and
store the movement of the weights energywise in springs,
so that the wheel turns to one side and afterwards pulls
up the weights again via the springs so the cycle can begin again.

Have you tried to draw this design in 5 degrees steps and see,
if there are steps, where you have no imbalance or a negative
torque ?
Normally some designs like this have positive and negative
torque steps and the result overall is zero.

Maybe you can test it in MW2D simulation program ?

http://www.workingmodel.com/download.html

This is a pretty easy and very powerfull programm for
these tests.

Regards, Stefan.

Offline snpssaini

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 06:04:03 PM »
Hi koenl,

Sorry for that but it will not work.

Thanks

Sanjay Saini

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #2 on: October 26, 2005, 06:04:03 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #3 on: October 26, 2005, 06:04:38 PM »
Sanjay, why ?

Offline AgingYoung

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 06:59:09 PM »
KoenL,

I think this wheel would turn with a slight modification.  If you could focus an anti-gravity ray on the weight that's attached to 6 o'clock and hold that beam on it as it moves to the 7:30 position then it will turn.  After closing my eyes and running a sim I've concluded that's the range where the punctus gets quite quietus.

Some don't want to employ anti-gravity rays in their design because of the large power consumption.  An alternative would be to hire an unemployed frenchman.  For a mere bagel and a cheap bottle of merlot you should be able to keep this wheel turning for a shift (8 hours).

A. Gene Young

ps:  The design of this wheel is identical in principle to a wheel discussed on a BesslerWheel.com thread with the difference being how the weights are forced to the center.  In this wheel the weights are forced by weights on their opposite sides sliding horizontally to pull the bottom weights up a vertical.  On the BesslerWheel.com thread the weights were moved up a ramp.  I'd be willing to pay shipping and handling and $5K for a wheel of this sort with a 15kw output.  Let me know when you start production.  I would want one sans-frenchman.
« Last Edit: October 26, 2005, 10:13:06 PM by AgingYoung »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #4 on: October 26, 2005, 06:59:09 PM »
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Offline Jim_Mich

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #5 on: October 26, 2005, 07:48:52 PM »
I tested it using WM2D and the weights end up settling to the bottom, which is what I expected.

Jim_Mich

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 09:22:39 PM »
Hi Jim,
did you use springs for the green lines ?

Please try again using springs for the green coupling lines.

Many thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #6 on: October 26, 2005, 09:22:39 PM »
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Offline Jim_Mich

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #7 on: October 26, 2005, 10:13:54 PM »
The green lines were rods.

I changed them to springs and got similar results, except the weights bounce around. I even tried giving the wheel a push start which I show below.

I've modeled hundreds of wheels using WM2D. If you use springs then you need to use some type of control or latch, otherwise the weight just oscilate chaotically. Unfortunatly latches are very hard to program into WM2D.

Jim_Mich

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 11:07:54 PM »
Hi Jim,
you forgot in both designs, that these weights are in a triangle case
and at 9 o?clock they can only stay horizontal on the triangle
case wall !
Can you program something like this into WM2D ?

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2005, 11:07:54 PM »
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Offline Jim_Mich

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2005, 12:10:56 AM »
Similar results with a triangle case.

Jim_Mich

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 01:52:52 AM »
Hi Jim,
many thanks for the update.
But nowit seems the rubberbands are too short, if you look up
the original drawing from Koen...
Hmm..
Sometimes minimal design changes can make abig difference in the outcome...

I am still looking for my old w2d design file for my single spring and weight
oscillator fixed to a wheel, Jim, maybe if you know WM2D very well you could
give it a try. There still must only be assigned the right spring constant and the right masses
to wheel and to the weight and then it will probably accelerate all the time.
I am just not finding it anymore on my harddrive.
It was once also in the files section of free-energyof yahoogroups, but I also
deleted it there for space reasons...

If somebody stillhas the w2d file, please upload it over here.
Thanks.

Regards, Stefan.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #10 on: October 27, 2005, 01:52:52 AM »
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Offline Jim_Mich

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #11 on: October 27, 2005, 02:14:24 PM »
I tried a number of different spring tensions and also giving the wheel a push start either direction. With stronger springs the weights stayed lifted. With weaker springs they tended to rest on the bottom. Changing the tension rate caused the weights to move very little or bounce around lively.

It is very difficult to use freely oscillating springs or pendulums on a wheel. The oscilation patterns constantly change and get out of sync with the wheel rotation. They need something to keep them syncronized.

This wheel just will not work.

Jim_Mich

Offline snpssaini

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #12 on: October 27, 2005, 03:43:43 PM »
Hi Koen,
where are the springs in this design ?
Do they connect every 2 weights ?
I think springs are a MUST for a Bessler design,
cause you have to store the potential energy in
them , so if a weight has gone down, it could be
pulled up againin the next cycle and the trick must be
to just shift the lever arms with the weights to one side and
store the movement of the weights energywise in springs,
so that the wheel turns to one side and afterwards pulls
up the weights again via the springs so the cycle can begin again.

Have you tried to draw this design in 5 degrees steps and see,
if there are steps, where you have no imbalance or a negative
torque ?
Normally some designs like this have positive and negative
torque steps and the result overall is zero.

Maybe you can test it in MW2D simulation program ?

http://www.workingmodel.com/download.html

This is a pretty easy and very powerfull programm for
these tests.

Regards, Stefan.

Hi Hartiberlin,

Will you please tell me how can I make a Gaint wheel (ride) with the help of MW2D simulation program.
I want to check my machine .

Regards

Sanjay Saini

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2005, 11:22:13 PM »
Sanjay, check the tutorials  and online help files !
Good luck !
Regards, Stefan.

Offline KoenL

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Re: Bessler Wheel design
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2005, 02:06:45 AM »
Hi everyone, sorry I'vee been so long, having major connection problems here...

Anyway, I thought I had included a clearer description of the wheel,
but apparently not; this has given rise to all kinds of speculation like
springs and such.

Legend/description of pic KoensBesslerDesign12.jpg:
The gray circle obviously is the main wheel, which is fixed on an axle.
The grey square is just an aid for drawing purposes, has nothing to do
with the wheel design.
On the rim of the wheel, spaced at equal distances, hinges are attached, onto
which rods (black) are fixed. On the end of each rod is a weight (red ball),
and another hinge (not drawn). Another, larger, rod (blueish) connects each
opposing pair of smaller (black) rods. So for example, the rod with weight fixed
to the 12o'clock hinge on the wheels rim is connected to the rod&weight which
is fixed to the 6o'clock hinge, by the large dark blue rod.
This hinged connection allows the weights a certain degree of freedom to swing,
but it also disallows them to swing in just any direction; some of them are
obstructed in their movement by the wheels rim itself. Note that this means the
smaller rods&weights must be able to collide with and rest on the inside of the
wheels rim.
There are not springs at all. All the rods are solid, and hinged on both ends.
That doesn't mean you can't try to use springs of course, that's up to you... ;-)

I have not tested it still, so I can't be sure...
But in any case it's not possible for "all the weights to end up settling to the bottom",
because they're fixed to the wheels rim...
The entire concept is that these rigid hinged connections allow only enough freedom
of motion for the weights to swing +/- 90deg in one direction and back, but don't
allow them to move in the opposite direction.
unless that's not what you meant...

I have not simulated it but in mind and on paper, so perhaps I should simulate it sometime...
What's a good and easy program for it, you think?

Kind regards,
Koen

 

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