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### Author Topic: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel  (Read 102940 times)

#### Tacmatricx

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 74
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2009, 09:37:44 PM »
Hi billmehess,

In this you are measuring both voltage and current.

When you add a peltier in parallel nothing changes.

When you add a peltier in series you see a jump in both current and voltage.

The reason this changes is that the resistance of the load... the ohms of resistance provided by the ammeter is constant.

An ammeter has an internal resistance and is acting as your load.

Using the formula V=IR changed to solve current I=V/R

By adding voltage (peltiers in series) and maintaining the same resistance both current and voltage appear to rise. This doesn't mean that the math works out this way as well... The peltiers have a limit of how much voltage and current they can produce in a certain environment. You can either increase voltage by wiring them in series, increase current by wiring them in parallel or do both by taking four peltiers wired in series and attaching another 4 peltiers in parallel... Do not ever mismatch the strings tho... by taking four peltiers wired in series and adding a string of three or five peltiers (also in series) and then attaching them in parallel to the four. series / parallel strings must always be balanced.

Tacmatricx

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2009, 09:37:44 PM »

#### Goat

• Hero Member
• Posts: 619
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2009, 01:03:19 AM »
@ Tacmatricx

That was a great response!

What do you think of a Peltier effect if you had big enough plates outside in -40 C and + 20 C inside the house already using oil, gas, electricity...etc to heat our homes?

Could the Peltier effect regenerate wasted power through lost heat?

Kind Regards,
Paul

#### Goat

• Hero Member
• Posts: 619
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2009, 01:21:08 AM »
@ Tacmatricx

That was a great response!

What do you think of a Peltier effect if you had big enough plates outside in -40 C and + 20 C inside the house already using oil, gas, electricity...etc to heat our homes?

Could the Peltier effect regenerate wasted power through lost heat?

Kind Regards,
Paul

Or for people in warmer climates...Could a Peltier effect if you had big enough plates outside in +40 C and + 20 C inside the house using no oil be of benefit to offset CO2 emissions?  Using Air Condition as in a house buried below the ground to conserve coolness while exchanging a potential with the above ground heat.

Kind Regards,
Paul

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2009, 01:21:08 AM »

#### Tacmatricx

• Jr. Member
• Posts: 74
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #33 on: October 09, 2009, 02:40:00 AM »
Hi Paul,

I think you'd be better off using a stirling engine at the moment, some of them can run off the heat differential between your hand and room temperature! Plus you can build them yourself instead of buying them with a fixed lifetime.

If you use a parabolic system to heat water, you can run the engine off the difference between hot water and cold water both day and night with the right insulation. Covering a large area with half cut polished oil drums (parabolic cookers) focused on a copper water pipe leading back to an insulated underground storage tank. All you need then is a solar panel driving the pump to circulate the water through the system when the sun strong enough to power the solar panel. Works out to be a hell of allot cheaper than covering the same area with peltiers or solar panels. Now you have a source of really hot water, oil, or coolant to drive your stirling engines pretty much 24/7 charging battery banks.

Change out all your AC lighting and appliances to 12V / 24V or 48V DC units and you don't even need to go buy expensive inverters either.

Tacmatricx

#### Goat

• Hero Member
• Posts: 619
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2009, 04:17:42 AM »
Hi Tacmatricx

What about a Sterling engine using -40C to +20C in cold climates, is it feasible using either the outside air to inside air difference?  Could a Sterling engine deliver enough power to heat one's house and keep the a Sterling engine system in motion and keep heating the house?

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #34 on: October 09, 2009, 04:17:42 AM »

#### mscoffman

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1377
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #35 on: October 09, 2009, 05:22:21 PM »
Hi Tacmatricx

What about a Sterling engine using -40C to +20C in cold climates, is it feasible using either the outside air to inside air difference?  Could a Sterling engine deliver enough power to heat one's house and keep the a Sterling engine system in motion and keep heating the house?

To that last statement No! Sterling engines are Carnot gas cycle engines
and will always have rather high internal losses. It might be just be
possible to use daily high and low temperatures combined with compressed
air to generate some useful levels of energy. But Carnot cycle efficiencies
are the bane of perpetual motion machines.

:S:MarkSCoffman

#### billmehess

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 359
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2009, 07:11:50 PM »
Yea , I know my numbers were way off on this one, glad it's generated some bannering around though.
Always fun to talk to all of you great people!
Bill Mehess

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #36 on: October 09, 2009, 07:11:50 PM »

#### Poit

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 295
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #37 on: June 10, 2010, 01:48:55 AM »
Sorry to revive such an old thread... I just very interested in this topic...

so we have sterling engine vs. peltier vs. solar panels

1: sterling engine
2: peltier
3: solar panel

Wouldn't a peltier setup with large fresnel lens magnifiers with water cooled heat sinks + thermal compound (a crap load of these units, i.e 300 (only \$3 on ebay per peltier module) be an ideal solid state electricity generator?

from what I have seen (someone posted the video here already http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1167872/alternative_electricity_energy_power_from_peltier/)... a single peltier unit can produce .9v @ 250mA albeit the heat source was from candles, BUT! with concentrated sun light, I believe you could get close to this heat.

So maths time:
to get 14v you would need to put 20 units in series (20x .7v = 14v) I say .7v because if peak is .9 im guessing .7 would be average.

So thats, 20 units in series to make 14v 250mA. so if you build 40 of these, wire them in parallel, you should get 14v @ 10A/h DC. average of 7 hours of hot sun would make that 70Amps.

Get a gel cell or a normal lead acid battery @ 12v 70Amp capacity. The entire setup would be very handy, especially if you re-wire the lights in your house to run off 12v.

For cost:
for individual purchases (ebay) it costs \$3.85AUD per peltier. Now, im guessing that if you buy in bulk this price can be reduced to at least \$2 each. so to buy 800 units would cost \$1600. + heat sinks, fixtures, housings, and extra materials... im guessing thats an extra \$400 at least.

so around the 2 grand figure.........  for 2 grand in solar panels can buy you ........... well its about \$700 per 100Watt... and 100 Watt is about 8.3Amps.... so \$1400.... hmmm I guess it might be cheaper...... crap... ive written all of this and solar panel works out cheaper??? waste of time?? or have i miscalculated?
« Last Edit: June 10, 2010, 02:17:37 AM by Poit »

#### e2matrix

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1871
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2010, 07:43:07 PM »
Solar panels \$1 to \$2 per watt:  http://sunelec.com/

Your cost for solar is way high and I'm sure you won't beat it with peltiers unless you are in a very hot shaded environment.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #38 on: June 10, 2010, 07:43:07 PM »

#### CompuTutor

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 438
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #39 on: June 11, 2010, 02:41:59 PM »
I'm wondering why so many here
did not understand why both
the voltage and the currently increased.

The ammeter is essentially
a fixed resistance value,
just as Tacmatricx cited.

Exception being heat
from excessive current.

For a fixed resistance,
when the voltage rises,
the current must too.

Ideally the ammeter should
be maxing-out the peltier
as far as current goes,
but the ammeter's resistance
is not low enough to do so.

So as more peltiers are added in series,
the voltage across ammeter's resistance
raises until the peltiers maximum current
across a load is finally achieved.

At a certain number of peltiers,
the voltage will have raised enough
to utilize the maximum current out.

Then the current curve will level off.

Put that digital meter across the ammeter only
and measure the ammeter's internal shunt's resistance.

You'll find it is not low enough
to achieve the maximum current
from a single peltier is all.

Ideally,
if a known value of load resistance was known,
like a light bulb, motor, or other steady value.

Then a series set of peltier/solar cells
should be added one at a time until
the best utilization of them occurred.

Then upon knowing that (as example),
five units achieved maximum output.

should attached grouped into series
sets if five units.

Then each set of five units
is then added in parallel to
the existing first string.

#### crazyoldfart

• Newbie
• Posts: 8
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2013, 12:27:15 AM »
I believe you said you had your meter in parallel with the peltier. that could have added as a load with the peltier and given you a false reading. the proper way to measure a load is inline (series) . try your measurement again with this configuration and let me know your results.

#### Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #40 on: January 16, 2013, 12:27:15 AM »

#### abbhawk

• Newbie
• Posts: 23
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #41 on: February 25, 2018, 01:42:43 PM »
I know this is a old discussion and im not sure what to say - people convince guy started discussion that he is wrong - are YOU sure he IS wrong?

It IS 10 years later now and might be a coincedence but try look at this peltier element from Alibaba which look alot like the one mentioned in here.

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TES1-12703-12V-3A-36W-30x30mm_1126728147.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.53.3c572d3046jTzG

One element is 3x3cm and have output of 12v x 3A= 36watt

If you have 1 m2 = 1000cm2/9cm2= 111,11 elements per m2 x 36watt = 4000,00 watt

So it is actually true, and price is 2,78dollar x 111 = 310 dollar of peltiers to make a 4kwh output. Just remember that these 4000watt is calculated at 1A, my house use more like 8A - so 1 m2 equals more like 500 watt at 8A. So if you have sun like 8 hours a day, 1 m2 make 4kwh and you probably need like 5 m2 to make 20kwh daily which is what i use.

Do you agree???

#### ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7454
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #42 on: February 25, 2018, 02:46:22 PM »
Hmmm

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TES1-12703-12V-3A-36W-30x30mm_1126728147.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.53.3c572d3046jTzG

Quote from the supplier

The cooling piece of high-power general models, Entering by a misunderstanding, that the power the greater the cooling, the better it is not true Key depends on what your use, if you do not understand or did not used - not to purchase
If it is fun, and we do not recommend high-power,

end quote

seems like one long disclaimer

However I must say

pretty cool claim...to big to pass up [just in case ?
will see if one of the member Labs can check this and post results here.

abbhawk
Your not a peltier salesman are you?? [only kidding....

respectfully
Chet K

#### blueplanet

• Sr. Member
• Posts: 410
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #43 on: February 25, 2018, 03:30:36 PM »
Why care?
Just experiment it to find out.

Hmmm

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/TES1-12703-12V-3A-36W-30x30mm_1126728147.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.53.3c572d3046jTzG

Quote from the supplier

The cooling piece of high-power general models, Entering by a misunderstanding, that the power the greater the cooling, the better it is not true Key depends on what your use, if you do not understand or did not used - not to purchase
If it is fun, and we do not recommend high-power,

end quote

seems like one long disclaimer

However I must say

pretty cool claim...to big to pass up [just in case ?
will see if one of the member Labs can check this and post results here.

abbhawk
Your not a peltier salesman are you?? [only kidding....

respectfully
Chet K

#### ramset

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7454
##### Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #44 on: February 25, 2018, 03:36:06 PM »
blueplanet

Yes

Glad you were paying attention .....[or were you??

Chet K