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Author Topic: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel  (Read 97835 times)

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #45 on: February 25, 2018, 03:37:22 PM »
My main purpose here is not to argue about the Chinese peltier products. I have experience of using 50W peltier elements.

In EU, there are many funded research projects on solar thermal power. The world has already spent enough money on optoelectronic research. Perhaps, we should take a look on the thermal energy from the Sun. Gd is most likely an element of research interest.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline blueplanet

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #46 on: February 25, 2018, 03:38:12 PM »
blueplanet

Yes

Glad you were paying attention .....[or were you??



Chet K

Of course.

Offline ramset

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 03:40:57 PM »
Can you link to the products you have tested

BTW
I could not agree more , investigations of Thermal energy resources .....and Phase change being a big interest here [for me personally...very low temp phase change discoveries

a few years back I happened upon a DOW chemical test of a very low temp Phase change fluid [80F]

this type of fluid material could change everything ,but it was not open source .

EDIT
I see the links below will look tonight or later [busy in the shop ATM]

Thank you sooo much !!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #47 on: February 25, 2018, 03:40:57 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline blueplanet

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #48 on: February 25, 2018, 03:50:54 PM »
The 50w Peiter elements I used to use in my former research project were purchased from Russia.
I will post back if I find it.

PS. 1) One thing you need to be very careful when experimenting Peiter elements.  When a Peiter element has worked for too long, the ohmic effects of whole element will heat up. You need a good cooling mechanism to achieve a real power generation.

2) The Russian seller was not very cooperative. I paid the money and they delivered to goods to me after half a year.


EDIT:

I found these links:

https://www.amazon.com/TEC1-12705-Thermoelectric-Cooler-Peltier-77Wmax/dp/B01LXZLN5G

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B072TQX2RQ/ref=sspa_dk_detail_6?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B072TQX2RQ&pd_rd_wg=n2qnU&pd_rd_r=PT27V6T0HMCGFKNKWTHK&pd_rd_w=ks08j

Can you link to the products you have tested

BTW
I could not agree more , investigations of Thermal energy resources .....and Phase change being a big interest here [very low temp phase change discoveries

Offline blueplanet

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2018, 03:53:55 PM »
....
a few years back I happened upon a DOW chemical test of a very low temp Phase change fluid [80F]

this type of fluid material could change everything ,but it was not open source .

I agree. We need to keep an eye on the latest technologies. That's where the solution lies.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #49 on: February 25, 2018, 03:53:55 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #50 on: February 25, 2018, 04:59:31 PM »
The square white ceramic units are designed as an electric heat pump
yes - they Can be used for power generation, however:


(I’ll try to transcribe the Chinese websites poor English)
The more power you generate with an array of units,
The greater the cooling requirements
Which uses more of the power you generated (depending on your use)
This curve will cap your output to 0 if not careful.


I would suggest using a Seebeck generator designed for power production.
Such devices find most usage in the shipping industry, for use on bigrig trucks
The ring-shaped units are fitted to the exhaust pipe
And cooled naturally by the wind while driving.
They come in 5kW, 10kW, +
And are rather expensive, but can be obtained from truck junkyards
Hot fluid or gas can be piped through them, to generate power from waste heat.


Using this for solar power may be tricky because of the shape.
But it may be possible to heat a cylinder with a solar concentrator
and in a shade with a light breeze on the outer part of the ring


There are similar (white square) units that LOOK exactly like the “cpu coolers”
But are actually seebecks not peltiers, there are internal differences
And great differences in performance as a generator.
The problem is most manufacturers sell the same peltiers as generators
AND cpu coolers and don’t tell us that they are the same Peltier device.


Main difference that becomes noticeable with use is as follows:
(this applies to the identical looking white square ceramic units)


The Peltier produces less power for temperature difference, and more heat is passed
through to the cold side (requires more cooling to sustain power production)


The Seebeck produces more power for temperature difference, and less heat is
passed through to the cold side (over a set time) and requires less cooling to sustain.


With the current industry standards, disclosure is not a requirement of the manufacturer.
So data sheets, data sheets, data sheets!!
Compare the performance of the products before you buy them!
This is the best way to know what you are actually buying


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2018, 05:05:13 PM »
The data sheets will also show you the electrically driven state data


In many cases, if this data is missing, you are probably looking at a Seebeck


Some include the data for both, so by comparison you can determine which one it is
Seebeck will require more electrical power to create the same temperature difference
as the Peltier.
Peltiers work better as a cooler, Seebeck work better as a generator
But both will ‘do both’
So the manufacturers often only produce one type of unit (Peltier CPU cooler)
and sell it as both products.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #51 on: February 25, 2018, 05:05:13 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #52 on: February 25, 2018, 05:06:52 PM »
The internal differences are a matter of the connections of the
individual junctions as well as materials used.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2018, 05:30:33 PM »


a few years back I happened upon a DOW chemical test of a very low temp Phase change fluid [80F]




Solid -> liquid:   Gallium and Cesium
Cyclohexanol
Cresol (88F)
Capric Acid (88F)




Liquid -> gas:


Acetaldehyde 69F
Hydroflouric Acid 66F
Trichlorofloromethane (R1) 75F <- reacts with O3





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #53 on: February 25, 2018, 05:30:33 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline abbhawk

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #54 on: February 25, 2018, 06:01:08 PM »
I just stepped over another peltier module that has a improved performance.

https://wholesaler.alibaba.com/product-detail/TEC1-12712-12V-12A-145W-40_60135673932.html?spm=a2700.details.maylikehoz.3.75881e11zPdAST

145watt at 16 cm2 thats like 9watt per cm2 or 9000watt/hour per m2

Each module cost 6,90dollar so a m2 cost around 430dollar

I took a look at these Seebeck modules but they seem to run on high temp and they are very expensive, so i think i like these normal peltier modules better, because they can run on solar. But of course im no expert so i need to listen to what you guys say.

Any chance anyone like to test it for us?

Offline franco malgarini

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2018, 07:26:02 PM »
I assume at minus that one cell produces 10 W
400 cell (1 square meter) produce 4 KW
and cost 1.000$

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2018, 07:26:02 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #56 on: February 26, 2018, 01:22:14 AM »
There is a temperature difference factor that needs to be included


Not just rated output


But rated output per difference in temperature


we can realistically achieve ~230 degrees in full sunlight
with a simple solar oven


Upwards to 10K with an Eric Jacqmain (Archimedes) device
But this process is constricted by surface area


Ideally, we want to find the best performance per area, per temp diff. per cost


Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #57 on: February 26, 2018, 01:34:46 AM »
Here


http://hi-z.com/product-tag/teg-module/


Want to make some real power

Offline abbhawk

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #58 on: February 26, 2018, 09:30:25 AM »
Hi Sm0ky

I do not understand why you prefer this TEG module? As i see it, your TEG modules have a bigger surface area and lower rated output in volt - same time i see no claim about Amphere so i have no clue how many watt it can output? Did you figure that out?

You like to make it important which temp diffrence is made, why? What is important to me is that i have a steady heat coming that i can convert to electricity.

It is not a question of making as much power as you can, it is a matter of producing energy so cheap as you can.

If I build a plastic box 1m2 and 10cm wide then i produce alot of heat like 60c and during day i just get new energy all day long - this box i can build at 450dollar.

You talk about building a reactor where you squeeze in my 1m2 to maybe 50cm2 that have heat at 300c - but you will not get more energy from the sun by using a reactor, sun adds like 2kwh of power per m2 - you cant get more out of it!!! but you reactor might cost 1000dollar while my plastic box might cost 20dollar.

And you TEG module cost 20-40dollar a piece, while my peltier cost 6,90dollar per module.

If my peltier module will work then i feel confident that this is the way to go...but i agree it would be a big help if someone could test what is best.

Offline sm0ky2

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Re: Peltier Generating More Watts Than A Solar Panel
« Reply #59 on: February 26, 2018, 01:23:49 PM »
Temperature difference to Watts is how these devices are rated


Greater temperature difference = more power output


Hi-Z is the industry leader in TEG units.
Not the Chinese


You get what you pay for
They are more expensive, but can actually produce a useable output


The TEC’s from China will barely run a small motor when you Light them on Fire
Pull one off a computer and stick it on the engine block of your car
You can meter it
Then watch it as the cold side gets hot and it almost stops producing power
Now you have to run a fan or liquid cooling system to make it work
you see the power produced - cooling power consumed
Leaves you with nothing compared to a TEG with the same cooling system.


There ARE some similar looking TEGs that work better than the TECs
But you have to know what you are looking at




 

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