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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: clone477 on September 11, 2008, 04:23:07 AM

Title: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: clone477 on September 11, 2008, 04:23:07 AM
I see there is alot of dicussion on this subject.  Ive been a member of "onesmallstepforman" yahoo group with Lawrence Rayburn as the creator of the TREC.  Alot of details have been given out as to the theory of operation.  It has to do with the Tank Circuit of multiple nested inductors.  Primary inductors are usually Single wound, secondaries are Bifilar WITH one larger diameter wire than the other(in the bifilar)  Then The bifilar is fedback to the primary of the next set.  This is regenerative feedback circuit which Tesla talks about and experimented with in the Colorado Spring notes.  He said in those notes that this feedback circuit causes signal that are normally to "feeble" to become stronge enough to do work and power motors,ect.  Thsi is the basics of the TREC.  The whole tuner is tunable by moving the inductors one within the other as they are all build on different diameter tubes, this adjusts the amount of transformer action, the mutual inductance, and inter-capacitance fo the bifilars.  Anyways this gives you a lead point, Join the group and you will learn more, I have.  Fern
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Koen1 on September 11, 2008, 12:37:52 PM
Quick question: Does it produce O/U?  ;)
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: demirevs on October 12, 2008, 12:18:53 PM
This is what Lawrence Rayurn says:

The Tesla Radiant Energy Collector, my version, does not produce
free energy. Sure, by your definition, it is overunity because it
requires no input of energy to make it self start. God's creation
supplies that and the TREC only redirects a small stream of the
energy that is already there and flowing.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Koen1 on October 17, 2008, 03:24:09 PM
Yes, of course, considering that we live in a vast sea of energy,
there is always some energy flowing somewhere, and it is conceivable that
some of that may be redirected.
And so, in that light, "free energy" as such is a meaningless term, and what
most of us call "free energy" would always be redirected components of the
continual energy flow through the cosmos. And so technically it is not "free
energy" nor "over unity" as the supersystem that is the cosmos already
contains and circulates the energies, so in that view there is never "over unity"
nor "free energy".

Nevertheless, when we are looking at electrical devices we generally do not
include the rest of the universe in its entirety in our calculations of energy efficiency
of the device.
If we have a device that does not need input energy fed to it by us, the users of the device,
while the device does produce output energy in a form that we can readily use,
then our efficiency calculations for the device and its input-output ratio will show that
we have a device which produces a lot more usable output than it takes input,
and that it is hyperefficient. The energy it produces may come from the universal
sea of energy somehow, but that does not change the fact that for all intents and purposes
we as earthbound humans can come up with in daily life, we have output energy that
does not require an equal amount of input energy, and so effectively it seems to be "free".
Obviously, there must be some form of exchange in the multidimensional manifold that
we in its plane we inhabit tend to call the universe, but that does not make the output
less real.

So when I ask "Is it OU?", I am asking
"does it produce significantly more output energy in usable form, than it takes
input energy fed to it by the operator?".

The answer appears to be "Yes"...

Which makes the next question:
"Ok, so please tell us how we can build one?" ;D
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: sparks on October 17, 2008, 05:13:43 PM
@Koen1


    In the final analysis we are looking for free work!

@all

        Tesla said many times that the Earth was negatively charged.  Negative compared to what?  Say we get a bunch of ionized gas that have the electrons stripped away and put them in a bottle .  So now we have a positive plate.  What happens in the zone between the earth and the positive plate.  Voltage drop.  Now if we insert two plates into this zone the voltage drop is now expressed on the two new plates differentially.
Does this discharge the Earth?  Does it stop the positive ions from being ionized?
Now the two new plates form a capacitor which is charged with radiant energy and discharged into a motor like the one he popped into his Pierce Arrow.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Koen1 on October 20, 2008, 06:37:22 PM
@Koen1


    In the final analysis we are looking for free work!
Which we can obtain by pumping the excess "free" energy through a motor and make it do work... right? ;)

Quote
@all

        Tesla said many times that the Earth was negatively charged.  Negative compared to what?  Say we get a bunch of ionized gas that have the electrons stripped away and put them in a bottle .  So now we have a positive plate.  What happens in the zone between the earth and the positive plate.  Voltage drop.  Now if we insert two plates into this zone the voltage drop is now expressed on the two new plates differentially.
Does this discharge the Earth?  Does it stop the positive ions from being ionized?
Now the two new plates form a capacitor which is charged with radiant energy and discharged into a motor like the one he popped into his Pierce Arrow.
Okay, but if the ions in the bottle are not removed, the cap plates in between the bottle and the ground never want to discharge,
as the setup behaves like 2 capacitors: one cap consists of the bottle with positive ions in it and the pate underneath it, and one cap
consists of the plate underneath that and the ground underneath that. so basically 2 caps stacked atop eachother. If you don't discharge
the top "plate" (the bottle) and you don't discharge the bottom "plate" (the negative ground), then why would the other two plates discharge?
Won't they just behave like 2 caps in series?
I can imagine that it may be possible to have the cap charge and discharge periodically while we charge and discharge the bottle,
but then it seems very similar to an electron pump circuit where cap plates are charged by electrostatic induction from an opposing
cap plate and a diode is used to turn that into a pump, but as far as I know the input energy in such a setup is still higher than the
output energy (due to switching losses)... ???
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on March 24, 2013, 07:18:56 PM
All energy is free energy. It's the conversion from one form to another in a controllable and sustainable manner that gets expensive. What Dr. Tesla was trying to develop was "fuelless" energy or energy conversion and control attained without burning fuel - in his day, coal.

Hydoelectric power is fuelless electricity obtained by converting kinect energy actuated by gravity to electrical power without cosuming fuel. It is, however, far from cheap or "free". It is also dependent on georgraphy.

His term "radiant energy" is wildly misconstrued these days. There is nothing mysterious about it.
His earliest use of the term that I could find is , “…streams resembling the cathodic must be emitted by the sun and probably also by other sources of radiant energy, such as an arc light or Bunsen burner.” That is from “Tesla’s Latest Roentgen Ray Investigations”, Electrical Review, New York 28 No.17, April 22. 1896

From “The Age of Electricity”, Cassier’s Magazine, March 1897 is this quote, "We have to evolve means for obtaining energy from stores which are forever inexhaustible, to perfect methods which do not imply consumption and waste of any material whatever."

From “Experiments with Alternate Currents of very high Frequency and their Application for methods of artificial lighting”, Lecture before the American Institute of Electrical Engineers, Columbia College, May 20, 1891 - “We are whirling through endless space, with an inconceivable speed, all around us everything is spinning, everything is moving, everywhere there is energy." Here he is speaking of kinetic energy.

So what he is talking about is naturally occurring charged particles. Early on he thought about emanations from the sun but soon realized the problem of storage through the night. He later recognized that cosmic rays from celestial bodies are colliding with the earth continuosuly from all directions. Today they are known as neutrinos and high energy cosmic rays that supposedly originate from supernovae. The scientific community is still working on that.

After the discovery of radioactive materials such as radium he believed that if the material could be shielded from the cosmic rays that they would not be radioactive. Thus one can take it that cosmic rays were what he thought "activated" the radium.

Once you get into studying charged particles you come upon "nuclear batteries". One particular kind closely resembles the radiant energy collector shown in his patents.

In "Sending of Messages to Planets Predicted by Dr. Tesla On Birthday", New York Times, July 11, 1937. —Inventor, 81, Talks of Key to Interstellar Transmission and Tube to Produce Radium Copiously and Cheaply" Dr. Tesla says "...discoveries by which it will be possible to ... produce radium in unlimited quantity for $1 a pound." Why would this be important to him? In 1835 radium cost roughly £580,000 per gram in today's money. One dollar per pound is roughly $0.002 per gram. It wasn't until the 1950's that government got into regulating nuclear materials.

In a nutshell, today's nuclear power generation is what Dr. Tesla was talking about. While it is possible to convert electricity in the atmosphere caused by cosmic ray collisions with atmospheric elements for use, the amount of power obtainable in this manner by an individual is negligible. The cost of obtaining this kind of power to power a single family home just isn't affordable and once again it is dependent on geography. The higher the elevation above sea level the more power can be obtained in this manner.

I've attached a couple of documents showing my research.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: jbignes5 on March 25, 2013, 05:11:36 PM


 Time to check this out guys...


http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,953-intensifying-transmitted-effects

 Radiant energy is all around us. All we need is a way to find a signal that is stable and create a pll circuit to hold onto that signal then intensify that signal through the use of capacitors.

 There is a lot of information in this patent and pay specific attention to capacitor and the special reference made by Mr. Tesla. Listen to the terms he uses, like weak signals and amplification or intensifying these signals to do work.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Sputnik-1 on April 21, 2013, 12:53:40 AM
TH Moray appears to have built a device that he could tune into the Radiant Energy.

BEYOND THE LIGHT-RAYS Explanations of the Oscillations of Radiant Energy
www.rexresearch.com/beyond/beyond.htm

Morays device produced a high frequency AC output at about 10Kw

Chapter 7 (http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter7.pdf)   Aerial Systems and Electrostatic Generators: Nikola Tesla's system, Thomas Henry Moray's system...

http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/Chapter7.pdf

Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: sparks on May 07, 2013, 03:34:22 PM
  Does Moray ever disclose the Universal frequency?   I sometimes wonder if there is some cosmic infrared background radiation.  Even a cosmic microwave background radiation.  By the length of the antennae Moray was using it could be in the microwave bands.  The atmosphere is transparent to a number of these freqs.  With the amount of man made microwave transmissions going on nowadays with a parmetric oscillator and frequency converter you could probably drive a car around on text messaging alone.  Moray refers to a frequency above light so maybe he tuned into some  gamma radiation.  Now your talking about an antennae/observer that is below the neuclear core diameter which would have to be redshifted all the way down to 60hertz.  Only crack at this would be some sort of crystal and agitating the crystal with a vibrational frequency that brings the neuclear cores close enough to observe the miniscule electric field polarization due to the gamma. hmmmmmmmm. 
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on May 09, 2013, 02:48:46 AM

 Time to check this out guys...


http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,953-intensifying-transmitted-effects (http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,953-intensifying-transmitted-effects)

 Radiant energy is all around us. All we need is a way to find a signal that is stable and create a pll circuit to hold onto that signal then intensify that signal through the use of capacitors.

 There is a lot of information in this patent and pay specific attention to capacitor and the special reference made by Mr. Tesla. Listen to the terms he uses, like weak signals and amplification or intensifying these signals to do work.
This is for a known transmission. The key to this patent is knowing the frequency of the transmission. Then this device can be used to and intensify it.
Dr. Moray said the energy he was intecepting, when connected to a headphone, sounded like waves in the ocean. I think that is a fairly literal description of radiant energy. See next post.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on May 09, 2013, 03:46:14 AM
  Does Moray ever disclose the Universal frequency?   I sometimes wonder if there is some cosmic infrared background radiation.  Even a cosmic microwave background radiation.  By the length of the antennae Moray was using it could be in the microwave bands.  The atmosphere is transparent to a number of these freqs.  With the amount of man made microwave transmissions going on nowadays with a parmetric oscillator and frequency converter you could probably drive a car around on text messaging alone.  Moray refers to a frequency above light so maybe he tuned into some  gamma radiation.  Now your talking about an antennae/observer that is below the neuclear core diameter which would have to be redshifted all the way down to 60hertz.  Only crack at this would be some sort of crystal and agitating the crystal with a vibrational frequency that brings the neuclear cores close enough to observe the miniscule electric field polarization due to the gamma. hmmmmmmmm.
I don't think there is any "universal frequency" in radiant energy. My two years of studying only Dr. Tesla's writings on the subject leads me to believe that he is talking about high energy cosmic rays. There are several kinds - neutrinos, extreme energy cosmic rays, ultra high energy cosmic rays, and high energy cosmic rays. Neutrinos are not a consideration because they have a neutral, or nearly so, charge. These are subatomic charged particles (protons) that have traveled through interstellar space before reaching the earth. Scientists are still theorizing about their source but the most likely candicates are Gamm Ray Bursts, novae, super novae, and possibly the jets being ejected from black holes. Those are the processes that have the ability to accelerate particles to near light speed. The subatomic particles are traveling at near light speed so their energy is huge compared to their size. Dr. Tesla said the had enormous energy. He didn't add the "compared to their size" and that had me baffled for a while.

There are estimated to be 100 billion galaxies in the universe and an average of 100 billion stars in each galaxie so it's no wonder they are arriving at the earth from all directions at all times. But keep in mind that even at relativistic speeds we are talking enormous distances. So those that arrive from relatively far distances and those from relatively near distances but are arriving at the same time have no linkage. So I doubt that there is any basic frequency to them. We should not try to couple to any particular frequency but just accumulate as many impacts as possible. That's why Dr. Tesla said that the larger the elevated, insulated plate, the more power was attainable from them.

Very few, if any, of the primary ray particles reach the earth because they collide with the matter in the atmosphere, give up some of their energy to those collisions which creates other emissions, and continue on their way. I've seen estimates (and I can't remember where right now) that said they could penetrate 10's of meters of solid rock once they reach the surface.
So when we put an elevated, insulated plate up in the air and connect it to a ground conductor the ground conductor gives the plate a charge which attracts charges of the opposite polarity. When you think of the insulation, think of "dielectric insulation". The dielectric around the plate performs a number of functions. One is to align the polarities. That puts the opposite of the ground charge near the plate and the same as the ground charge on the outer surface of the dielectric which attracts charges of the opposite polarity which are those next to the plate. So the dielectric properties of the insulation used play a part in how well the system collects energy. We want as high a dielectric constant as we can get and at the same time as low a dissipation factor as possible. I'm using high density polystyrene (not the foam) at the moment. Another function it serves is to keep the charges collected in the conductors by shielding them from the atmosphere's opposite charges that would equalize with the charges collected. Everything has to be insulated, not just the elevated plate. All wires, connections, etc. must be insulated to keep what little charge that is collected inside the circuit. So the insulation has to be complete - insulate everything.

Going back to what Dr. Moray said about it sounding like waves in the ocean makes you realise that this is not DC electricity but it is surging back and forth between the ground and elevated, insulated plate. But it isn't AC electricity as we think of it as a sine wave signal. It's more like impulses as the particles strike the insulation and the plate. Never the less, it is there. Unfortunately it is very weak and since there is no regularity to the impulses there isn't really much we can do with resonance to enhance it.

What we can do is accumulate it in a condenser and at a regular period partially discharge the condenser through a quenched spark gap and with resonance and constructive intererence slowly build up useable power. The trick here is not to deplete the condenser much faster than it is charged. That rate of charge will depend on the size of the elevated, insulated plate. That also controls how fast we can use the power from the system because it determines how fast the condenser charges.

I'm working on it but slowly. I'm getting some energy but not much because I have a small test setup and my elevation above sea level is low. That is a major factor in the amount of power than can be drawn - the higher the elevation of the ground above sea level, the thinner the atmosphere and the less energy the charged particles have given up before they reach the elevated, insulated plate. The closer to sea level, the less energy is available.

Of course the fact that they are mostly dispersed by the atmosphere is a good thing. Otherwise the earth would be a cinder and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on May 09, 2013, 11:30:14 AM
This method is the real solution to free energy crisis but the magic is still missing. :-\


They really can't give it.  :(
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: forest on May 09, 2013, 12:06:20 PM
This method is the real solution to free energy crisis but the magic is still missing. :-\


They really can't give it.  :(

The only way to use it is by small quantities spread uniformly around the world. Quite contrary to current bussiness model, ok ? You should know it better Tito,right ?  ::) Press too much and the governor (he he what a coincidence) will kill you .... Didn't you read Mythology ? [
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on May 09, 2013, 05:49:59 PM
This method is the real solution to free energy crisis but the magic is still missing. :-\


They really can't give it.  :(
Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no magic involved. Everything necessary to understand and implement it is right there in Dr. Tesla's patents, lectures, and interviews. It does, however, take some work to dig it out and connect the dots. It is also very easy to confuse his different systems as parts of the same system which they are not. The collection of radiant energy and the wireless transmission of energy are two different things. The former collects and converts radiant energy into electricity. The latter transmits electricity, no matter what the source of the electricity is, without wires.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on May 09, 2013, 05:55:42 PM
The only way to use it is by small quantities spread uniformly around the world. Quite contrary to current bussiness model, ok ? You should know it better Tito,right ?  ::) Press too much and the governor (he he what a coincidence) will kill you .... Didn't you read Mythology ? [
Ahh, but what's a small quantity? In our thinking today we think of "small" as enough to power a cell phone. On Dr. Tesla's scales, however, enough energy to power your home is miniscule. He was always concerned with providing industrial scale power and he considered enough power to provide for the needs a town as "small".
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: forest on May 29, 2013, 09:36:55 PM
I don't know exactly. Think like about a large wheel turned by electricity and loaded . If you have a belt that's fine but if you attach a mass to one point and disturb the mass center then the precession could destroy it.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Tito L. Oracion on July 27, 2013, 05:12:43 AM
Sorry to disappoint you, but there is no magic involved. Everything necessary to understand and implement it is right there in Dr. Tesla's patents, lectures, and interviews. It does, however, take some work to dig it out and connect the dots. It is also very easy to confuse his different systems as parts of the same system which they are not. The collection of radiant energy and the wireless transmission of energy are two different things. The former collects and converts radiant energy into electricity. The latter transmits electricity, no matter what the source of the electricity is, without wires.


lol.  ;D  Ya there is no magic but there is really other way to do it easily. Tesla intentionally did not show the other way
and what we are seeing in his patents are completely different and bulk.


its just a common sense actually but it is really tricky if you will discover it. ;)

Lets say to energize lots of coil then what we need is a big magnetic flux isn't it?, we only need a very small energy to do it. And TRE is enough to energize the whole world promise.  ;)   8)

and that's magic to others even scientist.  ;D   


"To control something big, sometimes many times all we need is just a trigger. remember that buddy"  ;)

Etits ;D
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on December 11, 2013, 03:46:07 AM
Tesla intentionally did not show the other way and what we are seeing in his patents are completely different and bulk.
Yes. Without understanding the information in his lectures, interviews, and papers, the patents are meaningless.

Quote
Lets say to energize lots of coil then what we need is a big magnetic flux isn't it?, we only need a very small energy to do it.
Magnetic flux doesn't have anything to do with radiant energy but I guess you could run a coil through the van Allen belts and power the world. Elon Musk might be interested.
Quote
and that's magic to others even scientist.
Scientists understand it quite well.

Quote
"To control something big, sometimes many times all we need is just a trigger. remember that buddy"
Yes, it only takes a small amount of conventional explosive to detonate a nuclear explosion.

"The phenomena of radioactivity are not the result of forces within the radioactive substances but are caused by this ray emitted by the sun. If radium could be screened effectively against this ray it would cease to be radioactive..."Nikola Tesla,New York Times, Section 2, 1 - July 5, 1931

”I have harnessed the cosmic rays and caused them to operate a motive device.”-Nikola Tesla,Brooklin Eagle,July 10,1932

"Reports of discoveries by which it will be possible to communicate with the planets and to produce radium in unlimited quantity for $1 a pound were announced by Dr. Nikola Tesla yesterday." New York Times, July 11, 1937

In 1937 the cost of radium was £58,000 per gram. Dr. Tesla was talking about making that $1 per pound or roughly $0.0022 per gram.

Of course the creation of the atomic bomb in the 40's instigated the controls on radioactive materials. But there were no controls on radioactive materials in the 30's. And the modern exposure standards derived from the Japanese bombings are bogus. http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130813201434.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/08/130813201434.htm)
Title: TREC Replication.
Post by: BANDI on May 27, 2014, 07:19:29 PM
Hi guys,
I decided to make a replication of TREC in my spare time.
I have almost all mounted.
I share the photos to all those who want to se  it's realy like.
 I worked on it while on vacation in Transylvania, where it is mounted.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 27, 2014, 07:32:44 PM
Wauu... !!!
The photos have come out huge ....!

Sorry..
Title: Re: TREC Replication.
Post by: Paul-R on May 28, 2014, 06:38:01 PM
Hi guys,
I decided to make a replication of TREC in my spare time.

Be VERY VERY careful. This subject can be extremely dangerous. PAtrick warned about it in the UK Free Energy Conference back in 2008
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 28, 2014, 07:25:18 PM
Hi Paul,
Thank you very much for the advice.
I hope to be dangerous .... because it's hard work and a lot of money! (it s my profesion)
I had no time to set up yet.
And I still need some information, such:
The spirals are completely insulated or only sandwiched with Lexan?
Tuning process ... Etc

Any suggestion is welcome!

(Sorry for my bad English)
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Paul-R on May 29, 2014, 04:02:09 PM

I hope to be dangerous ....
We are talking explosive quantities of energy coming at you. You need to be ready for it. Be afraid.

You are best guided by Patrick:
http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter7.pdf (http://www.free-energy-info.com/Chapter7.pdf)
Search for "TREC". Currently Page 39 (although page numbers vary with time as material is added).

Take this project seriously or you will get bitten savagely.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: TinselKoala on May 29, 2014, 07:54:27 PM
I agree with that.

That elevated structure will "collect" some radiant energy all right, just wait for the next thunderstorm. Got your fire insurance all paid up?
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: conradelektro on May 29, 2014, 08:24:47 PM
There is energy in the air, it is called electrostatic charge.

Electric density increases 88 DC volts with each metre of altitude above the earth, or, in feet equivalents, 1-19 DC volts per foot of altitude http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NearField-Earth-eField.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:NearField-Earth-eField.png)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity#Electrification_in_the_air (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity#Electrification_in_the_air)

Many people tried to "harvest" this charge. It is possible with balloons (http://www.rexresearch.com/plauson/plauson.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/plauson/plauson.htm)) or kites (round June 1752, Franklin reportedly performed his famous kite experiment).

The danger is being struck by lightning.

Usually (if there is no thunderstorm) this energy near the ground is not very dense and is difficult to do something useful with it. I could see it with an electroscope http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electroscope) and a wire from the roof window of my house during a dry day.

I think that with some "elevated construction" one either receives nearby AM radio stations or emissions from nearby cell phone towers or electrostatic charge. As it was said by others in this thread, beware of lightning. The lightning fatality rate is around 0.1 to 6 per million inhabitants per year (depending if it is a more rural country or not). But building an "elevated structure" with metal on top and a cable leading down, means calling in strikes.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: TREC Replication.
Post by: MasterPlaster on May 31, 2014, 12:15:45 AM
Be VERY VERY careful. This subject can be extremely dangerous. PAtrick warned about it in the UK Free Energy Conference back in 2008

Hello Paul,

Either Patrick has no clue what he is talking about or he is a coward. On second thoughts he may be both.
I don't know who this Patrick is but if you were to inquire if he has built a collector he would say no, based on
such a device being a death machine.

I have been on these forums a long time and I have seen all kinds of clowns.

On the off chance Patrick can demonstrate this device working to me personally, I will give him £1000 for his troubles!
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 31, 2014, 12:19:32 AM
Hi Paul,
Tthe problem is that these details are  missing in  Patrik s book, and I don't know anyone who has more information about the topic .
I understand that the author can not be contacted anymore.

Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 31, 2014, 02:48:22 AM
Hi Conrad,

Thanks for the information,  I read part of it in the past.... This system in theory, has some diferent principle as Pausons sistems.
But to make it works, in my opinion, whe need some more things :
 
  Start up mechanism is needed.
   Must be  find the  sistem- signal rhythm (frequency, which should be very high).
   Then,at this frequency,  the negative half cycle  maintained at the end of the upper spiral
   Then, an one direction (positiv) circuit from -center of the upper spiral  -  coil-  center of  lower spiral.
Rugly...In this way we create a path of no return to the "absorbed" positive charge ,   but is only my opinion.

 Lightnings are a problem in such an apparatus it s truth, but the danger can be  mitigated , with a good anti lightning, correctly calculated and adapted at this situation, (  i m working in electrical engineering) it s possible.

As I said, I can only work on it on my vacations, because I work outside the country. Probably in July, august I will continue.

Until then, any good idea,  details, suggestions  ar welcome!

Thanks.






Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Farmhand on May 31, 2014, 03:12:58 AM
Tesla's radiant energy system consisted of basically,

1) an elevated (insulated) plate (not a spiral coil)
2) a ground plate/rod
3) and a capacitor which is switched to the load when a certain tension is reached.

The system can receive some wave energy like radio signals, as well as atmospheric potential and charged particles.

Any Antenna system can be protected against lightning, just like a crystal radio antenna.

An electric Fence energizer is protected by a spark gap and a choke coil between the energizer and the fence.

However I would not set one up on my house. Just to be safe, rarely does a person get a second chance with lightning.

Here is a simple small set up in action.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdxrLF9wPnw

..
Patents

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US685957.pdf

https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US685958.pdf

..
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: MasterPlaster on May 31, 2014, 09:43:12 AM

Most of you have studied this a lot more than me but I would imagine the collector plate material to have a significant  role in this.

A wild guess: Barium.

Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 31, 2014, 01:12:11 PM
Yes, it s very important .

Barium can be .. but I'm not an expert in chemistry.

There are also more exotic materials ... radium, etc but unfortunately not at hand .
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: Paul-R on May 31, 2014, 03:33:25 PM

However I would not set one up on my house. Just to be safe, rarely does a person get a second chance with lightning.

Very sound advice. Bob Boyce is reputed to have been struck by lightning with his toroidal set up driving his 101 plate electrolyser, and rebuilt his workshop with RSJs and steel sheeting. But in a city, there are likely to be any number of buildings more likely to get struck (at least, in the absence of toroids).
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: telecom on May 31, 2014, 04:25:40 PM
Most of you have studied this a lot more than me but I would imagine the collector plate material to have a significant  role in this.

A wild guess: Barium.

Can you please elaborate on barium???
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: telecom on May 31, 2014, 04:26:54 PM
Yes, it s very important .

Barium can be .. but I'm not an expert in chemistry.

There are also more exotic materials ... radium, etc but unfortunately not at hand .
Mb a grid of sharp pointed objects like small nails?
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: BANDI on May 31, 2014, 04:46:20 PM
It works with  Pausons balloons...
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: MasterPlaster on May 31, 2014, 06:51:10 PM
Can you please elaborate on barium???

Our betters are blanketing the skies with it. That is good enough reason for me but Bedini was
using Barium ferrite magnets in his kits.

Wooton or some name like that was using barium resonators.

I am no sure if this was also used in VTA.

Barium, atomic weight 137.327 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium)

When ever you see 137 pay attention. 137 needs a website of its own buy you

start from here http://www.fotuva.org/online/frameload.htm?/online/137.htm (http://www.fotuva.org/online/frameload.htm?/online/137.htm)

Also google it.
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on June 03, 2014, 04:37:33 AM
I have spent quite a bit of time on Tesla's radiant energy collector but never built the TREC. As far as I know Lawrence Rayburn never got it to work but I haven't looked at it for over a year on their yahoo group. I asked for an update and never resceived a reply.
 
I have several problems with the TREC. The first is cost. I'm not willing to sink $6000+ into something that the originator can't get working. He was a lineman so had access to a lot of salvaged heavy duty electrical equipment. I would have to buy it all new. That's what the $6000 number above is based on.
 
He also has some problems with his theory. He says it creates "an ionized channel to the ionosphere." An "ionized channel" would be ions which are matter and the jet stream with its 250+ MPH winds lies between the top of his 40 ft tower and the ionosphere so I don't see how that is going to work and especially so on a passive system.
 
I did get a collector based on Tesla's patent working but didn't get any serious power . I got milliAmps but I did get it night and day and had some very interesting experiences.
 
The importance of insulating the elevated plate can't be emphasized enough. It provides two functions. The first is that it protects against lightning strikes. Hang a metal plate in the sky and connect it to ground and you have a lightning rod like Benjamin Franklin's. Franklin's works because it has a point at its highest extremity and the air around that point ionizes due to the charge from the ground connection. That ionized air is more conducting that the surrounding air so it provides a better path to ground for the lightning. Totally insulating the plate prevents that ionization from occuring and since it is insulated the plate does not provide a path to ground for the lightning. It is also important to insulate the connectors and wires coming down from that plate for the same reason. Any points on any of the connections will create ionization even small burrs on the wire, bolts, etc.
 
The second function the insulation provides is charge separation. The charge is delivered to the plate by natural radiations of solar, cosmic, and naturally occuring atmospheric phenomena in the form of charged particles. Note the 4th drawing in the patent. In the text he describes using a Roenken (X-ray) tube, i.e. ionizing radiation. That charge is collected in the conducting plate and you don't want it neutralizing with oppositely charged particles in the air. You want it to conduct toward the charge being obtained from the ground so it will be stored in the capacitor. For the same reason you don't want the charges from the ground neutralizing with opposite charges in the air or soil so insulate the wire connecting them to the buried ground plate. Only leave the ground plate itself uninsulated.
 
For reference, I used high density polystyrene - not the foam boards you get for home insulation. The better the dielectric properties of the insulation on the the elevated plate, the better the results you will get. I originally used a spray on insulation. When I changed to polystyrene sheets sealed around the edges I got almost 3 times better results.
 
An interesting experience with the grounding system occurred thus: I was using 5/8" X 10' copper sheathed ground rods. I got pretty good readings, relatively speaking, in the winter and early spring. I had to put the project aside for a while and didn't get bak to it until mid summer. When I started taking readings again they were all over the place, inconsistent, but generally lower than my previous readings. I thought about it for a while and it came to be that the only thing that had changed was the position of the sun relative to the horizon. I'm in the northern hemisphere so it was closer to the horizon in the south during the winter and spring. My installation was on the north side of my house to it was in the shade at those times. But in the summer the sun was directly overhead and shining directly on the soil where the ground rods were installed. I pulled the ground rods, insulated the top 4' with heatshrink tubing and reinstalled them, insulating the connections and the wire from the ground to the circuit. Bingo! I was much closer to my previous readings. The charged particles were entering the soil and neutralizing the ground charge as is passed through the top couple of feet of the copper on the rod.
 
These experiences point out that the charge is not the static charge in the atmosphere. This is radiated charged particles. So it's not the same as Plauson's balloons. That does, however, raise the question of the height of the elevated plate. Tesla says the higher the better and that raise another problem. Most people don't realize it but his initial plan for transmitting indistrial scale power was between tethered balloons maintained at 30,000 feet. Read the patents. It's there. He also did a demonstration for a patent examiner where he used a tube with the air density and pressure reduced to simulate the atmosphere at that altitude. He also mentions extracting hydrogen from the air to maintain the balloons at altitude in his Colorado Springs notes. But that raises the question, was he talking about keeping the elevated, insulated plate at 30,000 feet? It seems likely to me. Tesla always thought on large scale. We know airline pilots and passengers are exposed to higher radiation doses because they spend more time at altitude.
 
I took environmental readings (temperature, barometric pressure, UV exposure, realtive humidity, etc) but couldn't find any correlation to my circuit readings. I started looking at space weather and did find an inverse correlation between the readings and the solar wind density but only in the day time. The more dense the solar wind, the lower my circuit readings. At night the readings were lower but more consistent. It's like the solar wind is absorbing many of the charged particles before they reach the earth and so before they reach my elevated plate. It's like a dense cloud passing between the sun and a photovoltaic collector. Here are some sites for solar wind info
http://spaceweather.com/ (http://spaceweather.com/)
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/wsa-enlil/ (http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/wsa-enlil/)
 
Another interesting experience was at night. There was a line of thunderstorms moving west to east some miles north of me. I wasn't having any rain. While I was taking the reading a cloud to cloud lightning strike occurred and really lit up my bright white insulated plate. The reading jumped over 5 times the reading before the lightning and then slowly subsided. That slowness may have been because I was using a digital self ranging meter. A little research revealed that lightning does indeed emit x-rays and gamma rays.
 
I don't know about the barium mentioned above although I looked at it at one point but didn't try it. Tesla says the plate is "amalgamated" but he doesn't say with what material. Generally, the term means mixed with mercury and I think that the most likely in those days, it not being a controlled substance back then.
 
He also states that the plate should be highly polished. I think that is to get as good a contact as possible between the dielectric insulation and the metal plate that acts as the electrode to facilitate charge transfer.
 
Tesla also says that, all other things being equal, the larger the plates (elevated and ground), the more energy will be captured. That somewhat negates Rayburn's copper pipe coil. Maybe not if the spacing is done correctly. Either way, the critical thing is the insulation contacting the metal so I think flat plate would be better. I used flat aluminum. Copper may work better.
 
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on June 05, 2014, 02:25:01 AM
I stumbled upon this today. It backs up my observation about the inverse relationship between the solar wind and the power received at the elevated, insulated plate but on a much longer time scale.
 
Also note that in the chart given the radiation at 80,000 feet is 200 to 500 times higher than that at ground level. It's interesting to note that Tesla originally planned his transmission of power at fifteen miles (79,200 feet). That's why he considered 30,000 feet relatively easy to access. Of course, there were no airplanes at that time either and the jet stream was unknown.
 
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/info/RadHaz.html (http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/info/RadHaz.html)
 
More info on air crew safety: http://aircrewhealth.com/Topics/hazards/radiation.htm (http://aircrewhealth.com/Topics/hazards/radiation.htm)
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: MasterPlaster on June 05, 2014, 10:06:29 AM
thx,

Thank you for your updates.

Here is a very informative link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity

Also this is a bit unrelated but the guy is talking about some mercury amalgam used back in the days (page 1):

https://archive.org/details/philtrans06113183

Title: Atmospheric electricity vs radiant energy
Post by: thx1138 on June 09, 2014, 04:31:36 PM
Mb a grid of sharp pointed objects like small nails?
That's what Plauson proposed using and the ballons were to be maintained at a couple of hundred feet above the surface. That method is still used today to protect radio towers from lightning. Look at the frames at 2:59 in teh following youtube video. Those star shaped devices are the lightning protectors.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-7Qp7uzbQ&feature=kp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-7Qp7uzbQ&feature=kp)
 
But lightning protection and radiant energy collection are two different things. Tesla had patents for both. The major difference is the fact that the elevated device of the radiant energy collector is insulated and the one on the lightning protector is not.
 
Radiant energy patents
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,957-utilization-of-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU3 (http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,957-utilization-of-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU3)
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,958-utilizing-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU4 (http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,958-utilizing-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU4)
Also note what Tesla says in the radiant energy patent: "It is very important, particularly in view of the fact that electrical energy is generally supplied at a very slow rate to the condenser, to construct the same with the greatest care."
 
Which means you can't use it faster than it is collected or you'll have no energy to draw upon. This also rules out the idea that his Pierce Arrow car was power by the antenna attached to it collecting radiant energy. It wouldn't collect enough energy on a continuous basis to power an 80 horsepower motor. It was also said about the car that it could power a home when not in use as transportation so that is another thing that would drain the supply faster than it was collected.
 
Also note the x-ray (Roentgen or Lenard) tube shown in the radiant energy patent but using the devise developed by Tesla as he states in the text.
 
Lightning protector patent
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-1,266,175-lightning-protector?pq=MTI2NjE3NQ== (http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-1,266,175-lightning-protector?pq=MTI2NjE3NQ==)
 
Be sure to read the lightning protector patent regarding the elevated device and note the differences regarding the sharp points in the Franklin style ligtning rod, Tesla's uninsulated device for lightning protection, and the radiant energy collector insulated elevated device and what he says about charged particles.
 
Atmospheric electricity is somewhat related in that the atmosphere is charged by the charged particles from the sun and stars but the radiant energy collector is charged by the particles themselves and not the charge imparted to the atmosphere.
 
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: TinselKoala on June 09, 2014, 08:28:27 PM
It is really great to see that someone has actually read Tesla's patents and his notes and lectures. Rather than taking the tall stories and legends about Tesla and his work at face value.

Thanks, thx1138!

( "If you feel you are not properly sedated, call 348-844 immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion. " )

 ;)
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on June 14, 2014, 04:36:38 AM
I'm into my 3rd year of studying Tesla's work now and still feel like I've only scratched the surface. I spent the first year doing what most everyone does listening to conjecture about what Tesla meant by what he said and looking at alternate physics theories, etc.
 
I don't remember exactly what article I was reading at the time but it dawned on me that the author was bouncing all over the place time wise in the sequence of what Tesla was doing and that the only way to understand Tesla was to study his work in the sequence he developed it to maybe pick up his train if thought and see how his ideas progressed.
 
Another thing that everyone has to realise is how much NOT known at the time. Today's high school student knows more about science in general than was known during Tesla's time by the best science professors and experimenters. The list is too long to go into but you have to imagine what it was like to live in the 1880's and 90's. When you start getting into that there are obvious things like no cars or airplanes. But the subtle things that we take for granted today are what will really set you back. An example is refrigeration. There was none. Think about what that means for food consumption. Everything had to be fresh and it had to be grown locally and transported into the cities on a daily basis by wagon.
 
There's a cool site about New York City archived photographs and it has some from the 1800's. I looked there to see if I could find photographs of his laboratories but failed at that. The first thing you notice is the wagons and horses in the streets. Then you notice there aren't any skyscrapers. Steel wasn't mass produced so it wasn't used in buildings and the highest you can build a brick building is 5 or 6 stories. There wasn't any electricity so there weren't any elevators, air conditioning, or interior lighting.
http://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17~542808~109829:deg_48?qvq=q:1892;lc:RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~7~7,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~31~31,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~33~33,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~22~22,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~29~29,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~30~30,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~32~32,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~13~13,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~8~8,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRO~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRK~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAN~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITQUE~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITSTA~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~36~36,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~20~20,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~35~35,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~16~16,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~15~15,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~24~24,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~19~19,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~21~21,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~34~34,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~26~26,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~3~3,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~25~25&mi=3&trs=169 (http://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17~542808~109829:deg_48?qvq=q:1892;lc:RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~7~7,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~31~31,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~33~33,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~22~22,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~29~29,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~30~30,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~32~32,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~13~13,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~8~8,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRO~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRK~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAN~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITQUE~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITSTA~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~36~36,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~20~20,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~35~35,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~16~16,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~15~15,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~24~24,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~19~19,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~21~21,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~34~34,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~26~26,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~3~3,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~25~25&mi=3&trs=169)
Title: Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
Post by: thx1138 on June 14, 2014, 11:52:46 PM
( "If you feel you are not properly sedated, call 348-844 immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion. " )
 ;)
I made it to the surface world. No sedation necessary.
 
I saw an interesting article related to electrons, barium titanate, and x-rays today.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140610112337.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140610112337.htm)