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Author Topic: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.  (Read 50119 times)

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2014, 09:43:12 AM »

Most of you have studied this a lot more than me but I would imagine the collector plate material to have a significant  role in this.

A wild guess: Barium.


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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #30 on: May 31, 2014, 09:43:12 AM »

Offline BANDI

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #31 on: May 31, 2014, 01:12:11 PM »
Yes, it s very important .

Barium can be .. but I'm not an expert in chemistry.

There are also more exotic materials ... radium, etc but unfortunately not at hand .

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2014, 03:33:25 PM »

However I would not set one up on my house. Just to be safe, rarely does a person get a second chance with lightning.

Very sound advice. Bob Boyce is reputed to have been struck by lightning with his toroidal set up driving his 101 plate electrolyser, and rebuilt his workshop with RSJs and steel sheeting. But in a city, there are likely to be any number of buildings more likely to get struck (at least, in the absence of toroids).

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #32 on: May 31, 2014, 03:33:25 PM »
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Offline telecom

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2014, 04:25:40 PM »
Most of you have studied this a lot more than me but I would imagine the collector plate material to have a significant  role in this.

A wild guess: Barium.

Can you please elaborate on barium???

Offline telecom

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2014, 04:26:54 PM »
Yes, it s very important .

Barium can be .. but I'm not an expert in chemistry.

There are also more exotic materials ... radium, etc but unfortunately not at hand .
Mb a grid of sharp pointed objects like small nails?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2014, 04:26:54 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline BANDI

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2014, 04:46:20 PM »
It works with  Pausons balloons...

Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2014, 06:51:10 PM »
Can you please elaborate on barium???

Our betters are blanketing the skies with it. That is good enough reason for me but Bedini was
using Barium ferrite magnets in his kits.

Wooton or some name like that was using barium resonators.

I am no sure if this was also used in VTA.

Barium, atomic weight 137.327 according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barium

When ever you see 137 pay attention. 137 needs a website of its own buy you

start from here http://www.fotuva.org/online/frameload.htm?/online/137.htm

Also google it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2014, 06:51:10 PM »
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Offline thx1138

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #37 on: June 03, 2014, 04:37:33 AM »
I have spent quite a bit of time on Tesla's radiant energy collector but never built the TREC. As far as I know Lawrence Rayburn never got it to work but I haven't looked at it for over a year on their yahoo group. I asked for an update and never resceived a reply.
 
I have several problems with the TREC. The first is cost. I'm not willing to sink $6000+ into something that the originator can't get working. He was a lineman so had access to a lot of salvaged heavy duty electrical equipment. I would have to buy it all new. That's what the $6000 number above is based on.
 
He also has some problems with his theory. He says it creates "an ionized channel to the ionosphere." An "ionized channel" would be ions which are matter and the jet stream with its 250+ MPH winds lies between the top of his 40 ft tower and the ionosphere so I don't see how that is going to work and especially so on a passive system.
 
I did get a collector based on Tesla's patent working but didn't get any serious power . I got milliAmps but I did get it night and day and had some very interesting experiences.
 
The importance of insulating the elevated plate can't be emphasized enough. It provides two functions. The first is that it protects against lightning strikes. Hang a metal plate in the sky and connect it to ground and you have a lightning rod like Benjamin Franklin's. Franklin's works because it has a point at its highest extremity and the air around that point ionizes due to the charge from the ground connection. That ionized air is more conducting that the surrounding air so it provides a better path to ground for the lightning. Totally insulating the plate prevents that ionization from occuring and since it is insulated the plate does not provide a path to ground for the lightning. It is also important to insulate the connectors and wires coming down from that plate for the same reason. Any points on any of the connections will create ionization even small burrs on the wire, bolts, etc.
 
The second function the insulation provides is charge separation. The charge is delivered to the plate by natural radiations of solar, cosmic, and naturally occuring atmospheric phenomena in the form of charged particles. Note the 4th drawing in the patent. In the text he describes using a Roenken (X-ray) tube, i.e. ionizing radiation. That charge is collected in the conducting plate and you don't want it neutralizing with oppositely charged particles in the air. You want it to conduct toward the charge being obtained from the ground so it will be stored in the capacitor. For the same reason you don't want the charges from the ground neutralizing with opposite charges in the air or soil so insulate the wire connecting them to the buried ground plate. Only leave the ground plate itself uninsulated.
 
For reference, I used high density polystyrene - not the foam boards you get for home insulation. The better the dielectric properties of the insulation on the the elevated plate, the better the results you will get. I originally used a spray on insulation. When I changed to polystyrene sheets sealed around the edges I got almost 3 times better results.
 
An interesting experience with the grounding system occurred thus: I was using 5/8" X 10' copper sheathed ground rods. I got pretty good readings, relatively speaking, in the winter and early spring. I had to put the project aside for a while and didn't get bak to it until mid summer. When I started taking readings again they were all over the place, inconsistent, but generally lower than my previous readings. I thought about it for a while and it came to be that the only thing that had changed was the position of the sun relative to the horizon. I'm in the northern hemisphere so it was closer to the horizon in the south during the winter and spring. My installation was on the north side of my house to it was in the shade at those times. But in the summer the sun was directly overhead and shining directly on the soil where the ground rods were installed. I pulled the ground rods, insulated the top 4' with heatshrink tubing and reinstalled them, insulating the connections and the wire from the ground to the circuit. Bingo! I was much closer to my previous readings. The charged particles were entering the soil and neutralizing the ground charge as is passed through the top couple of feet of the copper on the rod.
 
These experiences point out that the charge is not the static charge in the atmosphere. This is radiated charged particles. So it's not the same as Plauson's balloons. That does, however, raise the question of the height of the elevated plate. Tesla says the higher the better and that raise another problem. Most people don't realize it but his initial plan for transmitting indistrial scale power was between tethered balloons maintained at 30,000 feet. Read the patents. It's there. He also did a demonstration for a patent examiner where he used a tube with the air density and pressure reduced to simulate the atmosphere at that altitude. He also mentions extracting hydrogen from the air to maintain the balloons at altitude in his Colorado Springs notes. But that raises the question, was he talking about keeping the elevated, insulated plate at 30,000 feet? It seems likely to me. Tesla always thought on large scale. We know airline pilots and passengers are exposed to higher radiation doses because they spend more time at altitude.
 
I took environmental readings (temperature, barometric pressure, UV exposure, realtive humidity, etc) but couldn't find any correlation to my circuit readings. I started looking at space weather and did find an inverse correlation between the readings and the solar wind density but only in the day time. The more dense the solar wind, the lower my circuit readings. At night the readings were lower but more consistent. It's like the solar wind is absorbing many of the charged particles before they reach the earth and so before they reach my elevated plate. It's like a dense cloud passing between the sun and a photovoltaic collector. Here are some sites for solar wind info
http://spaceweather.com/
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/wsa-enlil/
 
Another interesting experience was at night. There was a line of thunderstorms moving west to east some miles north of me. I wasn't having any rain. While I was taking the reading a cloud to cloud lightning strike occurred and really lit up my bright white insulated plate. The reading jumped over 5 times the reading before the lightning and then slowly subsided. That slowness may have been because I was using a digital self ranging meter. A little research revealed that lightning does indeed emit x-rays and gamma rays.
 
I don't know about the barium mentioned above although I looked at it at one point but didn't try it. Tesla says the plate is "amalgamated" but he doesn't say with what material. Generally, the term means mixed with mercury and I think that the most likely in those days, it not being a controlled substance back then.
 
He also states that the plate should be highly polished. I think that is to get as good a contact as possible between the dielectric insulation and the metal plate that acts as the electrode to facilitate charge transfer.
 
Tesla also says that, all other things being equal, the larger the plates (elevated and ground), the more energy will be captured. That somewhat negates Rayburn's copper pipe coil. Maybe not if the spacing is done correctly. Either way, the critical thing is the insulation contacting the metal so I think flat plate would be better. I used flat aluminum. Copper may work better.
 

Offline thx1138

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2014, 02:25:01 AM »
I stumbled upon this today. It backs up my observation about the inverse relationship between the solar wind and the power received at the elevated, insulated plate but on a much longer time scale.
 
Also note that in the chart given the radiation at 80,000 feet is 200 to 500 times higher than that at ground level. It's interesting to note that Tesla originally planned his transmission of power at fifteen miles (79,200 feet). That's why he considered 30,000 feet relatively easy to access. Of course, there were no airplanes at that time either and the jet stream was unknown.
 
http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/info/RadHaz.html
 
More info on air crew safety: http://aircrewhealth.com/Topics/hazards/radiation.htm

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #38 on: June 05, 2014, 02:25:01 AM »
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Offline MasterPlaster

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #39 on: June 05, 2014, 10:06:29 AM »
thx,

Thank you for your updates.

Here is a very informative link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmospheric_electricity

Also this is a bit unrelated but the guy is talking about some mercury amalgam used back in the days (page 1):

https://archive.org/details/philtrans06113183


Offline thx1138

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Atmospheric electricity vs radiant energy
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2014, 04:31:36 PM »
Mb a grid of sharp pointed objects like small nails?
That's what Plauson proposed using and the ballons were to be maintained at a couple of hundred feet above the surface. That method is still used today to protect radio towers from lightning. Look at the frames at 2:59 in teh following youtube video. Those star shaped devices are the lightning protectors.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_-7Qp7uzbQ&feature=kp
 
But lightning protection and radiant energy collection are two different things. Tesla had patents for both. The major difference is the fact that the elevated device of the radiant energy collector is insulated and the one on the lightning protector is not.
 
Radiant energy patents
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,957-utilization-of-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU3
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-685,958-utilizing-radiant-energy?pq=Njg1OTU4
Also note what Tesla says in the radiant energy patent: "It is very important, particularly in view of the fact that electrical energy is generally supplied at a very slow rate to the condenser, to construct the same with the greatest care."
 
Which means you can't use it faster than it is collected or you'll have no energy to draw upon. This also rules out the idea that his Pierce Arrow car was power by the antenna attached to it collecting radiant energy. It wouldn't collect enough energy on a continuous basis to power an 80 horsepower motor. It was also said about the car that it could power a home when not in use as transportation so that is another thing that would drain the supply faster than it was collected.
 
Also note the x-ray (Roentgen or Lenard) tube shown in the radiant energy patent but using the devise developed by Tesla as he states in the text.
 
Lightning protector patent
http://www.teslauniverse.com/nikola-tesla-patents-1,266,175-lightning-protector?pq=MTI2NjE3NQ==
 
Be sure to read the lightning protector patent regarding the elevated device and note the differences regarding the sharp points in the Franklin style ligtning rod, Tesla's uninsulated device for lightning protection, and the radiant energy collector insulated elevated device and what he says about charged particles.
 
Atmospheric electricity is somewhat related in that the atmosphere is charged by the charged particles from the sun and stars but the radiant energy collector is charged by the particles themselves and not the charge imparted to the atmosphere.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Atmospheric electricity vs radiant energy
« Reply #40 on: June 09, 2014, 04:31:36 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #41 on: June 09, 2014, 08:28:27 PM »
It is really great to see that someone has actually read Tesla's patents and his notes and lectures. Rather than taking the tall stories and legends about Tesla and his work at face value.

Thanks, thx1138!

( "If you feel you are not properly sedated, call 348-844 immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion. " )

 ;)

Offline thx1138

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #42 on: June 14, 2014, 04:36:38 AM »
I'm into my 3rd year of studying Tesla's work now and still feel like I've only scratched the surface. I spent the first year doing what most everyone does listening to conjecture about what Tesla meant by what he said and looking at alternate physics theories, etc.
 
I don't remember exactly what article I was reading at the time but it dawned on me that the author was bouncing all over the place time wise in the sequence of what Tesla was doing and that the only way to understand Tesla was to study his work in the sequence he developed it to maybe pick up his train if thought and see how his ideas progressed.
 
Another thing that everyone has to realise is how much NOT known at the time. Today's high school student knows more about science in general than was known during Tesla's time by the best science professors and experimenters. The list is too long to go into but you have to imagine what it was like to live in the 1880's and 90's. When you start getting into that there are obvious things like no cars or airplanes. But the subtle things that we take for granted today are what will really set you back. An example is refrigeration. There was none. Think about what that means for food consumption. Everything had to be fresh and it had to be grown locally and transported into the cities on a daily basis by wagon.
 
There's a cool site about New York City archived photographs and it has some from the 1800's. I looked there to see if I could find photographs of his laboratories but failed at that. The first thing you notice is the wagons and horses in the streets. Then you notice there aren't any skyscrapers. Steel wasn't mass produced so it wasn't used in buildings and the highest you can build a brick building is 5 or 6 stories. There wasn't any electricity so there weren't any elevators, air conditioning, or interior lighting.
http://nycma.lunaimaging.com/luna/servlet/detail/RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17~542808~109829:deg_48?qvq=q:1892;lc:RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~7~7,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~31~31,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~33~33,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~22~22,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~29~29,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~30~30,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~32~32,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~13~13,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~17~17,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~8~8,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRO~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITBRK~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAN~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITQUE~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITSTA~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~36~36,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~20~20,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~35~35,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~16~16,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~1~1,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~2~2,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~6~6,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~15~15,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~24~24,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~19~19,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~21~21,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~34~34,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~5~5,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~9~9,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~4~4,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~26~26,RECORDSPHOTOUNITMAY~3~3,RECORDSPHOTOUNITARC~25~25&mi=3&trs=169

Offline thx1138

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Re: Tesla Radiant Energy Collector TREC.
« Reply #43 on: June 14, 2014, 11:52:46 PM »
( "If you feel you are not properly sedated, call 348-844 immediately. Failure to do so may result in prosecution for criminal drug evasion. " )
 ;)
I made it to the surface world. No sedation necessary.
 
I saw an interesting article related to electrons, barium titanate, and x-rays today.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/06/140610112337.htm

 

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