Storing Cookies (See : http://ec.europa.eu/ipg/basics/legal/cookies/index_en.htm ) help us to bring you our services at overunity.com . If you use this website and our services you declare yourself okay with using cookies .More Infos here:
https://overunity.com/5553/privacy-policy/
If you do not agree with storing cookies, please LEAVE this website now. From the 25th of May 2018, every existing user has to accept the GDPR agreement at first login. If a user is unwilling to accept the GDPR, he should email us and request to erase his account. Many thanks for your understanding

User Menu

Custom Search

Author Topic: Towards Realizing the TPU  (Read 202859 times)

giantkiller

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2791
    • http://www.planetary-engineering.com
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #45 on: January 15, 2009, 06:02:58 PM »
I found and threaded this:
http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=5417.msg122224#msg122224

I felt at the time and still feel this to be a sound basis underlying the use of copper without the technical details of any ou device but its just the basic material and small application.
I asked it to be stickied but it didn't happen.

Then we can pick up copper and turn it into a device.
Otherwise reading, contemplating, winding, pulsing, posting is way out of context with a finished goal. I have alot of coils in two camps. Don't work, and hold promise. A slim goal is to recognized with insight to avoid burnout. I just got over a year of it and personally it is technically non productive. But self helpwise it is necessary. Every so often when I hit a slump I go view my coil and test inventory and ponder over the different configuration with the latest block of info in my head. I always come away fruitful, even at the smallest insight. I can't believe I did that built and tested that back then!

Ya gotta keep hitting yourself with 'It's mine, it's mine, it's mine". Because the majority of you have questions prior to burnout because of the isolation encompassing this technology. Where else are the answers? College, work, public service companies? When you look at the great men of this technology they were and are somewhat alone and obscure. In this involvement you will rock the boat of the sluggards around you. You think starting out alone is tough? Just wait.

Nobody is ever finished and the rest don't understand.
If you build you need the rest and if you don't build you are the rest.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=2535.msg34869#msg34869

--giantkiller. If you are capable, take it easy on yourself.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2009, 06:50:09 PM by giantkiller »

Grumpy

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2247
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #46 on: January 15, 2009, 07:03:04 PM »
Thanks GK, but I have never been able to integrate Dave L's explanation with what I know.



kacor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #47 on: January 15, 2009, 07:34:37 PM »
Thanks GK, that is marvelous! In my opinion it is very useful.

Kacor

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #48 on: January 20, 2009, 10:08:25 PM »
Hi, I am new here, although, I have been reading the threads here for about 3 years, so I am pretty familiar with most thoughts circulating in the overunity world,  What I'm thinking is we need some new thoughts and ways of looking at the SM TPU.  My first thought is why do supposed replications of Steve Marks TPU look totally unlike anything SM showed.  Second thought why does SM's TPU's look exactly like the Devices in Tesla's patent? Steve marks said he really was duplicating Tesla's patent.  If we look at Tesla's patent 381,970 Lo and behold it looks exactly like SM's TPU.  Now lets do some thought experiments, what this patent is is a rotating magnetic field power distribution device, according to Tesla. He says it resembles a transformer and yes has some transformer action, but what makes it different is he is operating it in a non-transformer way. This device is similar to his rotating magnetic field induction motors but he has eliminated the spinning armature.  In his patent he is using, to keep it simple, a 2 phase rotating field.  2 phases 180 degrees out of phase drive the 4 field coils wound first on a steel wire core. In his patent he uses what he calls an exciter to operate the the 4 input coils, at 180 degrees out of phase. Note he calls it an exciter not a generator, he doe's not say all the power output of the device comes from the exciter the output comes from the rotating field.  A non-transformer way of operating a transformer.  As a generators output is dependant on the speed of rotation so is the output of this device. A input frequency of 5 to 6 KHZ has the same effect as turning a generator at 5000-6000 RPM.  The four input coils which are the field magnets of this device can be likened to a car alternator.  The power required by the armature coil to energize the alternator is not equal to the total amount of power produced, otherwise the alternator would not produce any usable energy it is the rotating of that magnetic field that produces the output energy. Yes input power is required to rotate it, but being the wires don't move in this device there should be little CEMF in it.  A device of this type running at 5KHz which is an audio frequency as SM states would have a slight vibration and gyroscopic feel to it.  It also would have a primarily DC output with some 5 KHz hash on it.  Phasing, frequency all audio things as SM said.  Obviously now days we would not need Tesla's exciter as we can easily generate two 5 KHz sine wave signals 180 degrees apart electronically.  If it produces more energy then it uses obviously some could be fed back to keep it operating as in SM's TPU, a small start up battery would be all that was needed.  In my thinking these thoughts seem more in line with Steve Marks and what he said and what his device looked like. But you don't have to believe me.

Just trying to input something new.
Room3327

Mk1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #49 on: January 20, 2009, 10:13:51 PM »
@all

I have started that route , in the jt tread,i have a small Tesla pat transformer(even posted pic), Steven never said that it had no battery.Tesla used the motor as a switching/timing device.Its not tuned yet.

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #50 on: January 21, 2009, 06:28:42 PM »
Mk1,
    Are you replying to my post, if so, the motor you are referring to in Tesla's patent is not a motor.  It is an exciter for the device which must be powered or driven by some other means.  The rotation of it (by some other means) provides a dual sine wave output 180 degrees out of phase with each other to drive the rotating magnetic field which actually produces the output of the device. Before we get off on wild tangents here we should be looking much closer at these patents and trying to understand them.  Most people here seem to be trying to make mountains out of mole hills and complicating things way past the point of sanity.  If this thing is as complicated as people here are trying to make it, How did Steve Marks ever come up with it, because his intelligence was never that great.

Room3327

kacor

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 7
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #51 on: January 21, 2009, 07:56:26 PM »
Hi Room3327 & All

Thanks you for the new thoughts, we need these always. I don't want to offend you but I have to respond a few things.
1./ 6000 RPM (revolution per minute) is only 100 Hz
2./ SM really mentioned a slight vibration but in my opinion its frequency is much more lower than 5-6 kHz. I never tried but I don't think we can feel so high vibration by hand.
3./ Tesla's exciter in my sight is normal permanent magnetic motor/generator with one difference: he used double commutator. I think it is better than what we use it nowadays, because one can easily separate the BEMF.
Kacor

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #52 on: January 21, 2009, 08:51:20 PM »
Chef,
     Yes it would be 180 degrees out of phase in order to produce a smoothly rotating magnetic field using 2 phases and not 3. If you were to use 3 phases to produce a smoothly rotating mag field they would need to be 120 degrees apart.
     And no I do not personally know Steve Marks and I was not putting down his intelligence, I was raising the intelligence of many of the posters here who go into ideas of exotic metals and operating principles that I do not believe were a part of what Marks did.
Kacor,
     1. No offense taken, and yes you are right, I made a mistake and did not calculate rpm correctly.  Lets see if 1 cycle of input causes the magnetic field to revolve 1 full turn and it is running at 5 KHz it would go around 5000 times per second  times 60 seconds in a minute that appears to be 300,000 RPM.  A little higher then I thought but great for producing energy.
     2. I don't know the answer to the vibration question, not till I get a version built.
     3. Look at the drawings in Tesla's Patent and Read the text, Yes it is a PM motor/gen but it purpose and intent in the patent is to be used as a generator not a motor so it has to be driven by an external rotating source.  As a gen. its purpose is to generate 2 outputs that are 180 degrees apart ( 1 output is at maximum while the other is at minimum ) these 2 outputs drive the 4 coils in 2 pairs creating a smoothly rotating magnetic field (at 300,000 apparently RPM) in the toroid.  Also reading the Cancelling Lenz's law-methods thread will give more in-site.  If the coils are not matched very well there will be more losses caused by this according to Tesla.

Thank you all
Please don't take me wrong
I am only here to help.
Room3327

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #53 on: January 21, 2009, 10:38:23 PM »
Chef,
        You know what, you may be right, I argued with myself about that point 90 or 180, Tesla says 1 is at maximum while the other is at minimum.  Studying the exciter I think you are right I think it puts out 2 signals 90 degrees out of phase with each other.  But this still doesn't change the operating principle of this device i.e. smoothly rotating magnetic field cutting the output windings with nothing else moving, no wire, magnets, or steel moving in relation to any other.  If operated at say 400 Hz, which steel can handle quite, well that would translate to an RPM of 400x60=24,000 RPM.  If it has very little CEMF as I suspect, it should be able to produce a lot of output.

Room3327

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #54 on: January 21, 2009, 11:26:30 PM »
Chef,
     Could be he realized something that was not in the patent, but he probably built the patent in order too realize it.
Tesla shows the output coil not as a single coil but as 4 separate coils, with 4 separate outputs.  If the magnetic field of the core is rotating the points of high magnetic intensity, that point of hi. intens. will pass through 1 of the 4 output coils expanding the field in that coil as it travels around the core, expanding the magnetic field inside a coil will induce power into it.  Moving the same magnetic field form one end of a stationary inductor to the other won't do a thing as you say.  And yes Tesla also mentions there would be some regular transformer action.

P.S. I don't know all there is to know about this, I too am still trying to figure it out like everyone else here, but it just seems to me we all need some new directions to go.

Room3327

Mk1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #55 on: January 21, 2009, 11:36:29 PM »
@Room3327

All i can say is that there is 8 coils 90 degrees apart,i am building one are you , if you what to argue on detail, go ahead.
Its time that could be spent working with each other .That's my point, that motor action is a switching device (you may call it what you want but it dose operate the phases), A magnetic core only works on ac/pulsed dc, its transformer you still need to power it.
I am just stating in simple terms , for every one , make it as complicated as you want.

Edit: Tesla's goodies are not referred to in there patents because it would not get approved by law , you will only get those by building .
Back then there was no transistor or tubes 555 Or magnetron to switch things.

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #56 on: January 22, 2009, 12:07:45 AM »
Quote
All i can say is that there is 8 coils 90 degrees apart,i am building one are you , if you what to argue on detail, go ahead.
Its time that could be spent working with each other .That's my point, that motor action is a switching device (you may call it what you want but it dose operate the phases), A magnetic core only works on ac/pulsed dc, its transformer you still need to power it.
I am just stating in simple terms , for every one , make it as complicated as you want.

Edit: Tesla's goodies are not referred to in there patents because it would not get approved by law , you will only get those by building .


Mk1,
      I am not here to argue with you, sorry if you got that impression.  I do believe detail is something a bit missing around here though.
Now trying to work with you, yes Tesla's patent has 8 coils total and I think you are right placing them at 90 degrees apart, by doing so I would think transformer action is minimized.  The thing you call a motor is definatly operating the phases, 4 of the 8 coils, arranged as 2 pair.  Tesla called it an exciter, it is his patent. I don't know  why you think I don't, but yes I believe this works on sine wave AC. If what I am saying is to complicated, I just don't know what to say to this.  I think it is great that you are building this keep up the good work!

Mk1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2068
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #57 on: January 22, 2009, 12:32:20 AM »
@Room3327

Start building , i replaced the iron with a iron powder toroid on my toy version to get the basic , and found a lot of stuff, come joint us !

But the core it self has some mystery left to understand, the magnetic current can do work , don't trust your meter try a load on it.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 04:07:34 AM by Mk1 »

Room3327

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 86
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #58 on: January 22, 2009, 12:43:01 AM »
Mk1,
     Thank you, and I'm working as fast as I can.

giantkiller

  • TPU-Elite
  • Hero Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 2791
    • http://www.planetary-engineering.com
Re: Towards Realizing the TPU
« Reply #59 on: January 22, 2009, 04:12:35 AM »
In a normal case, between the control coils, and the output coil, there is no induction, doesn't matter how fast we rotate the vector with the control coils.You can see, Tesla wrapped the output coils, around the control coils, there is a normal transformer action in this case. SM used the output coils as a core, and wrapped the control coils around it. I don't think so, SM just copied that Tesla patent.  I think he realized something, what is not in these patents.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php?topic=1872.msg21437#msg21437

Boom?

--giantkiller.