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Author Topic: Electrinium  (Read 243530 times)

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #180 on: October 06, 2008, 07:18:20 PM »
@Gary: although I appreciate your conviction that there is
somehow a hidden "unity", an invisible connection as you call it,
that does not change the fact that the Electrinium pdf is
very shakey at best.

But I've been saying so for ages and have been taking flak for that
from Drannom ever since I dared to point out the discrepancies
in the pdf instead of declaring it the biggest breakthrough since
the invention of fire like he has been doing...
So I'll stay out of this thread as I have very little positive to say
about the pdf and mr Summera's theory.

Just a quick recap of my opinion of mr Summera's theory:
Even is you leave his view of the solar system aside, his story
about the Electrinium unit is inconsistent, and despite his claims
of how simple it would be to build one, his final proposed prototype
is suddenly quite complex and not at all the simple unit he claimed
is possible, and even more remarkable is that it seems he was quite
far in the development and production of this protoype, yet in the
30 years since his device has never surfaced or even been rumoured
about... which does seem to imply that it was either never built,
or it was built but didn't work.
And to be honest, the latter would not surprise me at all, seeing that
mr Summera appears to have a had a view of atoms and their interactions
that simply does not accord with the extensive knowledge of atoms
and their QED interactions as science has refined it in the past decades.
Mr. Summera seems to think that a compound molecule made of two
atoms which are relatively positive and negative valence-wise, has a
constant input and output of charge as in that the 'positive' atom puts out
a positive charge and the 'negative' outputs a negative charge, and that
this makes the compound molecule behave as a sort of electron pump,
absorbing electrons on one 'end' of the molecule and emitting them at the
other 'end'. We know this is not the case in reality.
Mr. Summera also seems to think that adding dopant to a conductor,
thereby producing zones in the bulk material that are relatively 'positively'
and 'negatively' polarised, will automatically (or if you prefer 'naturally')
cause any charges inside the conductor to flow along that bias path.
Although that does work in np-junctions in semiconductors, in conductors
it is a different story. There's a reason why we use semiconductors for diodes:
you can get semiconductor diodes to work on purely pn dopant differences,
but with non-semiconductors that's different.
And like I said, that's if we only look at the actual Electrinium part of the story.

It is good that a seperate Electrinium thread has been started,
at least that keeps this Electrinium crap out of our Crystal Cell thread.
;)

Hope I haven't annoyed anyone too much... ;)

Koen

I would like to ask you  the same questions that I asked smOkey.

Are you assuming that  what you  know about these things is completely accurate?
Do you think you know all that there is to know about these things?
Is there any possibility   that  what you were taught  about these things was in any way influenced by big energy interests?

With millions of so called   educated  people in the world  we have made very little progress in any technology  relating to energy .
Other technologies  grow in leaps and bounds.
Why haven't  we made any  real progress ? 
Could  it be that  our schools teach us more about how to avoid OU than   how to find it ?

It seems to me that   anyone  can  find  a way to punch a hole in a theory.
It takes no  wisdom to criticize   people .

This site is  about  finding  better ways to  get energy .   
Listing ways  it can't be  done is not helping  anyone.

If you are as wise  as you seem to think you are .   Why don't  you spend  your time  finding things that  might  work.

I do  agree that the laws of physics apply  . But all so called laws  have loopholes,   have you found any of them yet?
You know  the laws  better than I do .    You should  be able to  spot the loopholes easier than I can. 

Well .....  I guess that depends on  if you  are really even looking.
Maybe   you  just  enjoy  criticizing .
 

gary

sparks

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #181 on: October 06, 2008, 08:28:41 PM »
  @resonanceman   

    This is off topic but if a resonant circuit is used that has a motor for an inductor and an electrostatic coupling to two plates plus the normal capacitor (see below)
would this get us some extra energy out while the circuit is ringing without excessive dampning?  The circuit conductors between the cap and the plate forming a plate themselves in electrostatic induction?
       

Koen1

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #182 on: October 06, 2008, 08:33:43 PM »
And so must you, as you have already criticised two people in an identical manner.

Pot calling kettle black sort of thing? ;)

Besides, criticism is not always a bad thing, as you seem to think.
But seriously, I don't spend my time looking for things to criticise.

It's just that I have been working on Crystal Cells for years now,
and every now and then someone rocks up waving the Electrinium paper
and shouting that we should just follow the preachings of Summera...
And none of those people so far have shown to have any solid knowledge
or understanding of material physics at all...
The last of these, a guy calling himself Drannom, actually managed to
turn it into a sort of flame war, and that got me a bit fired up.
So whenever I see people discussing the Elecrinium thing very superficially
and see the same type of dedication to the Electrinium theory that
is based on preference to believe instead of on logical understanding of
physics, it rekindles the fire somewhat. And I feel I need to give my
opinion.

Apparently sharing your honest opinion is not appreciated by many if the
opinion is even slightly critical. Well, that's a pity.

Can we, by the way, bounce your questions back at you? I think we can.

Do you believe you are the keeper of wisdom?
Do you have all the truth bundled in a book?
Are you certain, to take an example from Summera's theory, that there is a
Galactic Central Sun Black Hole which emits AC radiation, which in turn
gets transfomed mysteriously into DC radiation by our sun, and the interaction
of the two produces gravity?
For I have tried and can't seem to find any gravitational variations in such a setup.
Are you certain, to take another example from Summera, that atoms are exactly like
our solar system? If so, then where is the elliptic in a given atom? Oh, right,
there isn't one, because subatomic particles unlike planets circle in three dimensional
orbits and not in mostly 2D ellipticals.
Do you honestly believe Summera is correct in those points?

Or are you just criticising my valid criticism because you like to claim some sort
of moral high ground or something?

Well, whatever it is, let's not bicker over this silly theory, ok?
Unless of course you truly believe in the Elecrinium theory, in which case
I apologise for possibly insulting your beliefs, and in such case I shall
attempt to refrain from disturbing your thread in the future.


resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #183 on: October 07, 2008, 12:08:09 AM »



Well, whatever it is, let's not bicker over this silly theory, ok?
Unless of course you truly believe in the Elecrinium theory, in which case
I apologise for possibly insulting your beliefs, and in such case I shall
attempt to refrain from disturbing your thread in the future.



So I'll stay out of this thread as I have very little positive to say
about the pdf and mr Summera's theory.


Koen

You have said  twice now that    you  will  stay off this  thread.

Please  do  as you say  you  will do.


As far as answering   your  questions .......  I  would have  taken  the time to answer them  if you had taken the time to answer mine.       

We  are  trying to  have a conversation about Electrinium here.
Maybe  we have no chance of  success .......maybe  we do . It is not  your call.
It is not  your place to  try to  disrupt  the  conversation here.
You have stated that  you have talked to people about  electrinium  before  so you know what  to expect ...........so why did you come here other than to  trash the  thread ?

gary

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #184 on: October 07, 2008, 12:21:26 AM »
  @resonanceman   

    This is off topic but if a resonant circuit is used that has a motor for an inductor and an electrostatic coupling to two plates plus the normal capacitor (see below)
would this get us some extra energy out while the circuit is ringing without excessive dampning?  The circuit conductors between the cap and the plate forming a plate themselves in electrostatic induction?
       


Sparks
Did  you intend to attach a schematic    it says  see below .........I don;t see anything below .
What is the purpose  of the 2 plates ?
Are  you talking about  a Grey motor ?

gary

sparks

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #185 on: October 07, 2008, 02:23:00 AM »
Sorry Rman ,   Site keeps on telling me I can't write to the upload file.

   My idea was to set up an Lc network but use a Tesla cap/coil in series on each leg between the inductor and the main cap.  As the main circuit oscillates these thrucurrrent capacitors should alternately charge and discharge without dampening the oscillator.  The electrostatic field produced between these two caps would be interesting to monitor.

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #186 on: October 07, 2008, 04:39:20 AM »
Sorry Rman ,   Site keeps on telling me I can't write to the upload file.

   My idea was to set up an Lc network but use a Tesla cap/coil in series on each leg between the inductor and the main cap.  As the main circuit oscillates these thrucurrrent capacitors should alternately charge and discharge without dampening the oscillator.  The electrostatic field produced between these two caps would be interesting to monitor.

Sparks

I am not sure  that I am understanding you  yet.

I don't  have much  formal  training ...... Most of what  I know  is from reading sites like this 
So far  my  idea of  what  you are trying to  describe   is using  an LC circuit  feeding into  HV  caps driving 2 Tesla  secondarys 

Is that close  ?

The  voltage of the caps  and  the  Tesla  secondarys  would be interesting .
I am assuming  that  unlike  a  conventional  Tesla  coil  the secondary  would  be  directly connected  and  tuned to the same frequency . as  the driving   circuit .

I would think that  the   coil for the LC circuit  would be  very large .

As  I understand it  one of the main  problems  of making a very high power Tesla  coil  is  the  loose  coupling   between the  primary  and secondary .   This  would  get past that .     It could  handle  as much  power  as  your LC circuit  could take  without oveheating . . ...  assuming   you  don't  blow your caps . 

I am thinking  this might  be something like a Tesla multiplier .

gary   

Edit

One thing that might  hurt  the overall output ..........the  2 tesla secondary's would be  out of  180 out of  phase .......  any  voltage induced in the opposite  coil   would be destructive interference .
« Last Edit: October 07, 2008, 05:08:54 AM by resonanceman »

hypersoniq

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #187 on: October 07, 2008, 12:03:58 PM »
As to the molecular structure of the crystal...

What goes into growing a piezo crystal?

I think I can see thru the fog a bit clearer now... Crystal structutre that has the piezoelectric effect
stored in a hard casing (therefore no pressure can be put on it to excite the electron flow)
BUT the structure is laced with cubic Boron Nitride, which DOES react with neutrinos...

You would end up with a piezo crystal that is ALWAYS being excited! This type of crystal would probably output some trace voltage while it it being grown...

Now some questions...

is it only in nanotube form that cBN reacts with neutrinos?
is there a crystal form that can be grown without high heat and pressure that does what we need?

more Q's to come later, but at least in my mind I can now see how this might work...

z.monkey

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #188 on: October 07, 2008, 01:21:00 PM »
Howdy Koen1,

Are you certain, to take an example from Summera's theory, that there is a
Galactic Central Sun Black Hole which emits AC radiation, which in turn
gets transfomed mysteriously into DC radiation by our sun, and the interaction
of the two produces gravity?


Yeah, the key to Electrinium is Super Light theory.

Super Light theory is in the same area as the Soft Particle Physics theories that I was toying with earlier this year.  This same process excites the Crystal Power Cell and the Elemental Rods.  Also this theory is congruent with Henry Moray's Radiant Energy Receiver.  I just read a very exciting chapter in his book about the unlimited sea of energy we live in.  Here is a link to some information about Moray and his sea of energy.

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/moray.htm

The Super Light theory takes Morays theory a little farther by adding the dark central sun.  It is dark because its emissions are a lot higher that our optical sensors (eyes and instruments).  It is not just the reaction of the enormous amount of energy coming from our sun, but the perpendicular interaction between the energy coming from our sun and the invisible energy coming from the central sun which creates these effects in matter.  These two sources of energy interact with and add energy to matter.  The silver iron atoms join to become a molecule.  One side of the is producing negative charges with the added Super Light energy.  The other side is producing positive charges with the added Super Light Energy.  The effect which is produced makes the molecule a tiny pump effecting the space around it.  It becomes a molecular battery.  When these molecules become organized in series parallel structures then their effects can be amplified to create a battery.  A battery which is supplied energy from starlight.  Let me rephrase that, a strong, perpetual battery which is supplied energy from starlight.  I believe that the Crystal Power Cell and the Elemental Rods are doing an analogous job of converting starlight to electricity.  Both Tesla and Moray considered these phenomena to be caused by cosmic rays, and they were right, Super Light is a newer theory.

Edit:  I believe the first person to physically prove the existence of Super Light was Nicola Tesla.  His Plasma Shield technology from the WWII era used ultra high frequency energy (same as the central sun) which would dissolve physical matter.  He explained this was because of the energy radiated by the central sun.  This is in the Electrinium document.

Blessed Be...

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #189 on: October 07, 2008, 05:26:01 PM »
Hypersoniq

I am not  sure that  electrinium  uses the piezo  effect 

I like the  idea  of  it working  like a magnet     although  that is not  really an explanation  of how it works because  we really don't understand exactly how a magnet works . 

I did  find a few  piezo  links

 http://www.smied.co.jp/smi_english/product/e-10.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piezoelectric
http://www.piezo-kinetics.com/index.htm
http://www.physikinstrumente.com/en/products/prdetail.php?sortnr=703750

The last one  is a piezo  Linear Actuator  I had no idea that this kind of  actuator  existed .  It looks to me like it  would be idea  for  pulling  crystals

gary

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #190 on: October 07, 2008, 05:59:46 PM »
Howdy Koen1,


Yeah, the key to Electrinium is Super Light theory.

Super Light theory is in the same area as the Soft Particle Physics theories that I was toying with earlier this year.  This same process excites the Crystal Power Cell and the Elemental Rods.  Also this theory is congruent with Henry Moray's Radiant Energy Receiver.  I just read a very exciting chapter in his book about the unlimited sea of energy we live in.  Here is a link to some information about Moray and his sea of energy.

http://www.hbci.com/~wenonah/history/moray.htm

The Super Light theory takes Morays theory a little farther by adding the dark central sun.  It is dark because its emissions are a lot higher that our optical sensors (eyes and instruments).  It is not just the reaction of the enormous amount of energy coming from our sun, but the perpendicular interaction between the energy coming from our sun and the invisible energy coming from the central sun which creates these effects in matter.  These two sources of energy interact with and add energy to matter.  The silver iron atoms join to become a molecule.  One side of the is producing negative charges with the added Super Light energy.  The other side is producing positive charges with the added Super Light Energy.  The effect which is produced makes the molecule a tiny pump effecting the space around it.  It becomes a molecular battery.  When these molecules become organized in series parallel structures then their effects can be amplified to create a battery.  A battery which is supplied energy from starlight.  Let me rephrase that, a strong, perpetual battery which is supplied energy from starlight.  I believe that the Crystal Power Cell and the Elemental Rods are doing an analogous job of converting starlight to electricity.  Both Tesla and Moray considered these phenomena to be caused by cosmic rays, and they were right, Super Light is a newer theory.

Edit:  I believe the first person to physically prove the existence of Super Light was Nicola Tesla.  His Plasma Shield technology from the WWII era used ultra high frequency energy (same as the central sun) which would dissolve physical matter.  He explained this was because of the energy radiated by the central sun.  This is in the Electrinium document.

Blessed Be...

One of the things Ilike about the  super light  concept is that it fits  with  all the other  stuff I have learned  about how life really works.     

I don't  remember  where  but I read years ago  the black holes  were  natures recycling system ......physical stuff goes in  ......non physical energy flows  out . 
This  sounds  like   super light to me .

Of course  the name  doesn't  really matter .
What ever  you call it there is  a  flow of  energy that is  beyond  physical senses .........and it is very powerful .



Personally  I find the least believable  part of the PDF is the part about the  Tesla Shield .
I  understand that in times of  war  sometimes  extreme  measures  are taken .
This  seems to me a bit to extreme.
A shield that   disintegrates any  physical matter that   passes through it .....from boarder to border . 
Wouldn't this shield be kind of hard  on birds  and flying insects ?
It wouldn't be  very  useful  if  the enemy could  sneek  under it ........so what happens to the ground or water where it makes contact with the shield ?

One  potential  use of the technology  on a small scale  would be  for  waste  disposal .   
On  the  surface  it sounds like the perfect solution to  our landfill problems...............but I suspect that  putting  the molecules  of our  waste into the air  is probably  no better than putting the waste into the earth in the long  run . .   

sparks

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #191 on: October 07, 2008, 06:00:53 PM »
    There may be sublight energy also.  Quantom physics predicts streams of neutrinos permeating well almost everything at high velocities.  Aether fabric? Magnetic particles? Gravity and anti-gravtiy just being a result of the relavent inertia of these particles.

hypersoniq

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #192 on: October 08, 2008, 03:24:08 AM »
@resonanceman
Hey, thanks for the links!
I did some reading and I found out that Rochelle Salt (Potassium Sodium Tartrate) Has strong piezoelectric properties... you can make that in your kitchen!

You might be right and I have now strayed off the electrinium path onto something else (piezo-electrinium ?  ;) ). But since I have neither the funds or equipment to start running Czochralski processes with the materials in the pdf, I think I will stick to the cheap and easy stuff until I at least have a working proof of concept...

The rochelle salt is the easy part, I worked with that decades ago for science class... the cBN will hopefully present an easy/cheap method of implementation and integration without getting into the whole nanotube issue...

Oh well, even if it's not electrinium, that book did provide some inspiration!

Good Luck to whoever pulls the first boule!

resonanceman

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #193 on: October 08, 2008, 03:58:19 AM »
@resonanceman
Hey, thanks for the links!
I did some reading and I found out that Rochelle Salt (Potassium Sodium Tartrate) Has strong piezoelectric properties... you can make that in your kitchen!

You might be right and I have now strayed off the electrinium path onto something else (piezo-electrinium ?  ;) ). But since I have neither the funds or equipment to start running Czochralski processes with the materials in the pdf, I think I will stick to the cheap and easy stuff until I at least have a working proof of concept...

The rochelle salt is the easy part, I worked with that decades ago for science class... the cBN will hopefully present an easy/cheap method of implementation and integration without getting into the whole nanotube issue...

Oh well, even if it's not electrinium, that book did provide some inspiration!

Good Luck to whoever pulls the first boule!

Hypersonic

I agree that  it is good to work on what we can . .......

How strong is  the  rochelle salt crystals ?
Stong enough to  get  pinched  between  2 neos and take some vibration ?


gary

hypersoniq

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Re: Electrinium
« Reply #194 on: October 08, 2008, 05:44:00 AM »
Quote from: resonanceman
How strong is  the  rochelle salt crystals ?
Stong enough to  get  pinched  between  2 neos and take some vibration ?

The 2 initial problems with Pure Rochelle Salt Crystals are
1.) poor tensile strength (it's the displacement of ions internally that makes it piezo-electric)
2.) tendency to absorb moisture

I need to investigate if there are ways around this using various dopants during the grow phase. I'm sure only experimentation will tell... (the cBN should change things, lattice wise)

(I know Sure Microphones used a rochelle salt crystal in one of their older microphone elements, and it was moisture-protected, but they didn't last long so they went with something else, most likely quartz)