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Author Topic: Recycle fossil fuels?  (Read 15282 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Recycle fossil fuels?
« on: September 01, 2008, 05:34:36 PM »
Does anyone think it is possible to recycle fossil fuels?

What I mean is this....when hydrogen is burned in an internal combustion engine, the burning process,
which if I recall from my chemistry classes, (long ago) combines it with oxygen and H2O then comes out as
the end result.

My thoughts are about the possibility of using a catalyst device or other such means to recycle the hydrocarbon
fuel and reverse the "burning" process chemically in a way similar as mentioned above.  Is this even possible?  Has this been tried?

The converters used today convert carbon monoxide into carbon dioxide without any additional energy input.  I have no real chemistry background or understanding of even how this might be done.  I was just wondering if anyone else knew anything about this idea or if it has been tried in the past.

So, if hydrogen can be burned and turned back into water, and then re-used, possibly gasoline or some other related fuel (natural gas?) can be handled the same way?  I understand that outside energy is required to break the H2O back into O and H, but in my example, just maybe this energy would be less than is required to drill, pump, and refine the fuel in the first place.  Plus, it would greatly expand our current resources as does any recycling program.

Forgive me if I should have posted this under Half-baked ideas.  I don't even consider this idea 2% baked.

Any input, opinions or information would be greatly appreciated.  Thank you.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Recycle fossil fuels?
« on: September 01, 2008, 05:34:36 PM »

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2008, 04:43:17 PM »
No thoughts or ideas anyone?  This may not even be possible.  I will ask a chemist I know but I was hoping to get some input from folks here.

Thanks.

Bill

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 05:58:31 AM »
Hello Pirate!

As an Agronomist I have to tell you that nature already found the answer via photosyntesis, it turns CO2 into complex carbohidrates, that, if left to mineralize, in a long time become hidrocarbons. Only it takes millions of years...

Now, seriously, I have imagined many times how CO2 could be catalized into complex molecules (lets say one of 4 carbons like Butanol, good to go as gasoline replacement) by a complex crystaline nano estructure capable of being syntethyzed cost effectively. The area to surface of such a "sponge", which I imagine being of precious metals for the same reasons as it is used in normal exhaust catalyzators, should be huge in order to be of practical use.

The exact configuration of such a crystaline metal nanostructure is something that in short must do the same job that today do metabolic photosyntetic pathways, but more efficiently in terms of micro spatial arrangement of products and substrates, like a nanoscale "mounting line".

I can imagine such a thing is possible, it's an espontaneous Idea that comes to my mind like the "Ultima ratio" that allowed Newton to solve integrals and sumatories just by looking at them. I just could not tell how to do it, but I imagine myself aligning atoms one by one with the help of a Tunnel effect electronic microscope to create the original matrix of the catalzator matrix that would be then replicated automatically...

I wish I could have the tools and co workers to research such idea. I wonder how many compounds more complex than Butanol could be synthetized out of air and a car's exhaust... But just achieving Butanol (4 carbons only!) would change the world for ever!!!!



Darn, If I could


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2008, 05:58:31 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2008, 07:15:04 AM »
Thank you for your detailed reply.  This is way out of my field but I felt is was worth exploring.  I think that the more we work with the natural order and mother nature, the better off we are.  By this, I mean, look at the natural world.  Trees breathe in co2 and exhale (sort of) O.  We breathe in O and exhale co2.  Works kinda nice doesn't it?  Yes, I know, solar energy is involved and all but my point is, I think any true answer will have already been used by mother nature.

Bill

Offline ChileanOne

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:40:06 AM »
Thank you for your detailed reply.  This is way out of my field but I felt is was worth exploring.  I think that the more we work with the natural order and mother nature, the better off we are.  By this, I mean, look at the natural world.  Trees breathe in co2 and exhale (sort of) O.  We breathe in O and exhale co2.  Works kinda nice doesn't it?  Yes, I know, solar energy is involved and all but my point is, I think any true answer will have already been used by mother nature.

Bill

Well, actually plants and photothropic microorganisms "eat" Carbon transforming it from its most oxidized form (CO2) to higly reduced forms (Carbohidrates) using the free energy from the sun for it, entering carbon to the food chain, and, in that sense, all life in planet is "solar powered". O2, and that's funny, would be like a by product from the reduction of the CO2 molecules (something like the farts of the photosinthetic organism, LOL).

Regards!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2008, 07:40:06 AM »
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Offline aussepom

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2008, 09:00:33 PM »
May be you should have a read of this and maybe the MIB will wonder what to do about it.
aussepom

HI

This a copy of a letter that when to 'the low carbon economy' web site, I thought that you may be interested in this.
The wastewater treatment plan mentioned here has been proven on a 'laboratory level' and is scaleable, this was done in 2001. Part of the plant also has a 'Turbofilter' this design has also been proven on a full scale prototype up to 34lts per second. However a second prototype has been developed but not fully tested due to funding, this second one has been developed from the testing results found in the first one. It was developed in a form of cross flow action long before the reverse osmoses started using cross flow.
Out is potable quality water, idea for 'boiler feed water' it has no mineral content, Hydrogen, and the solids reusable immediately. The 'Turbofilter' has the capability to desalinate.
The units under development for the 'boiler operation' and 'gas turbines' is hopefully to be finalized and tested later this year or early next year, depending on funding.   
 
Brian Bayliss
Bayliss Controls

Hi
         It is quite possible that the Chinese will all so be offered some more advantages, that is if the western countries do not back the inventers that work 'outside the box', such as a small project in Melbourne that would enable them to run there navy on water from the sea, that is they use gas turbines for there drives and power.
There Power stations that will run on water from the waste treatment plants. No coal, and no oil for there ships required, and No pollution. There aircraft run on water, the nuclear subs, modified so that the reactors do not require any uranium to run them. There even is a possibility that an under water 'jet engine' that would work up to a depth 350ft, and better still the same design will work in air and space. This is no a dream or prank and does not technically break any rules .
Impossible you say, no it will no be if they invest in the technology under development here in Australia. That Australia, UK or USA do not seem to be interested in. I may well be offered to them.
There would then be no need for this CO development.
As an example
A Sulzer boiler as at the Loyang Power in Australia, a 500MW electrical output.
If fitted with 52 of these units at a cost of  $A52,000, and would use 5.6MW of power would run the plant. However this is the worst case plans are to recycle 80% or even all of the 'heated air'
As so less units would be required.
The water input 'as the fuel' from a special waste treatment process or potable quality water can be used. the amount would be 8M litres per day plus any make up water for the 'boiler feed' water.
The proto type unit is hopefully to be completed and tested later this year or early next year.
These units will have many uses, so there would be no need for 'coal fired boilers', I am hoping to contact Sulzer to offer a modification with there help. They would be able to be fitted to any boiler, and 'gas turbine' engines that have been modified to run on hydrogen gas. Even the LM2500 that is fitted to many marine ships.   
aussepom 

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 11:50:27 PM »
aussepom:

Thanks for posting this.  This is incredible!  This is exactly the type of thing we need to be working on as a nation, in my opinion.  The science is there, just need the money for R&D.  Hey, here is an idea, instead of bailing out Wall Street, we (In the U.S.) could invest the money in inventors with projects such as this one.

Thank you for bringing it to our attention.


Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Recycle fossil fuels?
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2008, 11:50:27 PM »
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