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Author Topic: What goes up must come down - some thoughts  (Read 12718 times)

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 03:42:49 PM »
abhammer it's the only thing I dislike about you and probably will never agree with. It's the use of patents, I also don't like how you sometimes try to convince people they should do the same. It corrupts minds and gets people from research mode to greed mode. I do all my research and work for free. If I'm lucky enough to find a runner it'll be free for everyone like it's supposed to. Even if someone else gets the credit for it I don't care as long as it's out free of charge I'll sleep and die happy.

broli

 That is easy to say when you have a good job and a retirement. If I had the same I would probably feel the same. But I have lived in off and on poverty over the last 20 years, being a handicap (bad legs from an head on collision) I got hit by a drunk driver at over 110 MPH. Even though I am a blacksmith/armourer and I dare say a good one. It is still a very very painful life and no retirement possible under these conditions. I hope you understand, it is not greed, but survival. And I want credit for who ever where credit is due. Not to be berried by hype and big business. Even Tesla's name was almost berried, and would have been, if he didn't do so much, and so much documentation by the media.

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #15 on: August 28, 2008, 03:42:49 PM »

Offline broli

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #16 on: August 28, 2008, 04:06:27 PM »
Yes I agree, everyone has his own story. But in my sight there's no way of justifying a patent. If you just want to survive then releasing a runner under open source terms will make you survive 5 life times. If you want to sit on millions or have that illusion atleast then go ahead patent the idea and we'll see what happens. Despite of the dreamer tesla was and what he invented he also used to patent every single thought he had, and what did it bring him today? Well I let students explain that as none have heard of him if they haven't done the research.

What's wrong with giving a world changing invention away? We have been used to these bad habits for so long that they seem oke now and have become the status quo.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 07:22:35 PM »
@broli

 It looks like you  have allot to learn.
 It seem like you don't know what it is like to be in poverty.
 You don't know what it is like to work in pain, needing cane and props just to try to make some money.
 You don't know what it is like to have an invention stolen from you and you don't have the money to fight them.
 
 To a blacksmith a tool needs to be used, and I look at money as a tool. If I had the money I would build jobs and places where the handicap and the poor people could have a life, the more I could make the more I can give.
 What can a poor person give? Nothing but ideas that can be taken and made millions on and the poor person could do nothing for they can't afford it.
 What can a rich person give that knows what it is like to be poor? Who has always put other people first. If I was that greedy, I wouldn't be here talking to anybody, wasting my time. But I will say this as well I give freely as long as I can afford it. Survival dictates what I can do. I have no choice.

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #17 on: August 28, 2008, 07:22:35 PM »
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Offline pequaide

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #18 on: August 29, 2008, 02:39:53 AM »
The patent office will not experiment with your invention unless they have independent verification of its authenticity. In other words: all the world knows about it already. They too believe that such an invention is impossible.

A better hope at making money with it would be to introduce it to a corporation that has patent lawyers that will attempt to protect your invention, after they have vested interest in the project.

You should help protect yourself from the corporation outright stealing your invention when you show it to them, have a third party sit in with you on demo day, and video tape the demo.  Also; posting your invention on this site and starting a discussion is a valid means of establishing priority.  Sharing a slice of the pie with a corporation gives you a better shot at making money: it is a big pie.

Offline DrWhat

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2008, 12:51:09 PM »
Alan,

you say "You don't know what it is like to have an invention stolen from you and you don't have the money to fight them". What do you mean by this? What invention?

I too invented something but I cannot say here as it will give away what I do/where I am to too many people. The patent attorney from a large patent firm said "no it's not worth patenting, too obvious and perhaps unpatentable". Three years later it was fully patented by an overseas company and now the invention is in millions of devices worldwide. To have been angry is an understatement. But my anger was never shown to others.


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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #19 on: August 29, 2008, 12:51:09 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #20 on: August 29, 2008, 01:00:06 PM »
No disrespect intended DrWhat but that story is as old as my grandma. "I invented it and they stole it from me bohoo." This wouldn't have happened if it was open sourced. We live in a new age today. However thinks he can patent a free energy device and think multi billion companies are going to sit and watch you do it lives in a fantasy. 100's die on a daily basis due to crude oil, do you think your life is protected by some higher being? I accept whatever comes with the idea of giving it for free. If it's hords of people trying to hang me or praise me, I don't care. As long as I can reach my goal it's all fine.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 03:13:33 PM »
Alan,

you say "You don't know what it is like to have an invention stolen from you and you don't have the money to fight them". What do you mean by this? What invention?

I too invented something but I cannot say here as it will give away what I do/where I am to too many people. The patent attorney from a large patent firm said "no it's not worth patenting, too obvious and perhaps unpatentable". Three years later it was fully patented by an overseas company and now the invention is in millions of devices worldwide. To have been angry is an understatement. But my anger was never shown to others.



DrWhat

I was talking to broli with those statements, that he does not understand what it is like from my perspective . Now by his latest statement shows he truly don't understand how big business works either.
 The invention that I was talking about is a foam applicator for GM windshields that this co couldn't solve. I built a fully functional prototype in less than a week when their engineers haven't solved it in 7 months in the US or Japan. I was trying for a real job with a retirement. They took the device, and I had witnesses who wanted me to work there (lower engineers). But they just said what you going to do, you don't have the money to fight us HA HA. One of the other engineers smuggled out my original prototype and gave it back to me. I'll send you a photo of it.

 From what you said on your story, I would suspect the patent attorney, as the prime suspect for the theft, as that company where most likely his clients as well.

broli would have me give what I have done/doing away, and when I can't swing a hammer anymore and just let me starve and die, left with no money even to bury me. What he also don't understand is that once the patent pending is done, it will be exposed and people will be able to build for themselves as well. But most people will not build for them selves and that is where the money is, and the patent gives you protection for your name and where you have it patented from having greedy people from taking unjust advantage and claim it to be theirs. But as long as they pay for the wright and pay royalties they will still be able to build. The money that is talked about does not come from the poor but from the rich, and patents have and never will stop the person from building their own for their own use. The problem with open source is that anybody can start a co. and call it theirs with out any fears, and ignore the inventor's existence claiming what they invented and the inventor can't do a thing. Thieves out there will change it a little and patent it anyway taking the inventors name wrights and his credit as well. This will also keep the inventor form building his own machine and selling them for someone else now has the patent.

 @broli

 Patents do not stop what you want in the effects of open sourced to the public, but it does stop people from stealing it and making their own companies form it. What you are asking is like, the invention is a meat, and it gets thrown to a pack of hungry wolves (big business) and it will be devoured with nothing left for you.

 ::) Reality check!!

 
« Last Edit: August 29, 2008, 03:50:21 PM by AB Hammer »

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2008, 03:13:33 PM »
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Offline broli

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2008, 07:07:22 PM »
ABHammer you should investigate open source licensing and their legal status more. I don't see why many like to equate it to giving stuff for free or having zero revenue. Like I said this is probably a subject we will never agree on anyway. If you believe this is your ticket out of "poverty" then that's fine. Just don't be disappointed when the patent office will laugh at your idea or steal it right there or even get out raced by an open source one. This device to me is not about money. It's about free energy, it's the sole purpose of ultimate survival.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2008, 08:38:31 PM »
Greetings broli

Here is the basic info for open source licensing.

An open source license is a copyright license for computer software

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source_license

You still do not understand. Once patent pending starts which is the same time you register it in the mail show up at the patent office and get the receipt of your filing. Then it is time to shout it from the mountain tops, news media, ect. You don't wait on the patent office to confirm it or it to be denied. Public pressure is your best friend. It still goes out all over the world just as if it where posted today. It just keeps thieves from stealing it from you, when you do it the correct way. ;D

Besides you should know I am not greedy or I wouldn't have sent you that video. And the fact that I will help people with what they are working on, and give advice. The hardest thing I have to keep from doing is just giving out the secrets of what I have worked so hard on, and what I have worked with others on.

Now I hope you understand.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2008, 08:38:31 PM »
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Offline Marctwo

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #24 on: August 29, 2008, 10:05:44 PM »
I seem to have opened a can of worms asking for patent advice so I've replied in another thread to let this one get back on topic.

http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,5468.0.html

Cheers.

Offline Dgraphic911

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2008, 01:40:20 AM »
alan

"Now I will be finishing 3 of my wheels over the next week and a half. And all is looking very well."

I can actually find that in at least 3 posts per month over the past year.

How long is "a week and a half"

and whats your definition of "all is looking very well"?


I thought your walker was done and you were off the the patent office in MAY?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #25 on: August 30, 2008, 01:40:20 AM »
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Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #26 on: August 30, 2008, 03:37:55 AM »
LOL

 Dgraphic911

 You caught me in wishful thinking, and I have built wheels in that time. But what happens all to often is being self employed I have to make more money and it keeps pushing back what I want to do. Sometimes I get about halfway built and then I see a problem that needs to be addressed, and before I can address them. Out of the blue so to speak. We have a breakdown or have to take a trip and then I have to make more money again. This is normally above the basic cost of living but necessary expense like stainless steel $1,500.00 worth needed. A few hundred dollars worth of rivets, welding wire, shielding gas, ect. ect. Sometimes I feel like a juggler with a broken arm. I even lost a few more days so I won't get started until Wednesday and Thursday. But finally these days unless like a medical emergency are wheel days YES!!. It is aggravating to have a design and even tested parts for the effects needed and can't finish the final wheel. What is even worst is each breakthrough makes you come up with other ideas and to look at old ones how they can be changed. The heat here is also a killer that shortens my days of work for I am in a tin building in the summer, and the hot sun beating down. This fall will be a very good time for I won't be being cooked and I will probably be moving to New Jersey sometime between fall and next spring. I am merging my business with my vendor Ice Falcon. Now we will be talking making money as a teem. We both expect to double out income from this merger. Then I see myself having even more time for wheel work and inventing. Then I will probably be even a bit more open on what I am doing.

Offline AB Hammer

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2008, 03:43:52 AM »
alan

I thought your walker was done and you were off the the patent office in MAY?

That walker was done in may, but is was not perpetual, but I won't show it due to the other approaches, and another invention that has come from it. But it takes money to patent as well. I have 3 finished items to patent just waiting for the cash needed to do it. But when I have a running wheel the cash will be there and the other items will get their patents.

Offline utilitarian

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2008, 07:20:45 AM »

At the other hand a combination of multiple forces is still very interesting. Whether a combination of gravity and magnetism will work,
I still don't know. Other combinations do work. You may know the Water/Osmosis Motor that I used to design some months ago. It really works, based on water evaporation and gravity. (Although it's a weak motor, for me it's important to have success from time to time, even if I can do only "Baby steps").
One thing that I realized when I built the Water Motor, is the fact that a wheel should not need to push itself
away from something that is applied to a stator, because this will always require energy. In this Water Motor parts of the wheel are deforming periodicly,
causing imbalance in the wheel. They deform due to hygroscopic pressure, so they are in no mechanical way in contact with the stator.


You put up a very bad example.  Evaporation is not a force.  That is the Sun's energy at work, and will end when the Sun runs out of hydrogen.

Offline dieter

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Re: What goes up must come down - some thoughts
« Reply #29 on: August 31, 2008, 03:30:35 PM »
Thanks for being back ontopic.

A bad example? I don't think so. What I basicly said was "a combination of 2 forces". The water wheel clearly does that, no need to deny anything. It is heat from the
sun that causes evaporation. I never said this is overunity. But it is free energy, since water evaporates in huge amounts all the time, and then rain if falling down again, all driven by the sun, anyway.

So I asked myself if I could replace the sun force by another force, eg. by magnets. Isn't magnetism just an other form of gravity? So it wouldn't be two forces then? But wait, magnetism
affects only ferromagnetic matter (other than rather insignificant diamagnetism etc). So it isn't just an ordinary form of gravity. Can we utilize this diffrence to create some kind of
alternating gravity loop, some kind of gravity stirling?

These questions usually confuse me a little and that's why I am doing some experiments. Sometimes it's easier to ask people like you why something wouldn't work, in order to save some time and money in building a device. So, any ideas?

 

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